Sad day

[Muzh]

I don't know much about shrinks and their methods, but I think that they not suppose to give you an answer on a platter, you suppose to come up with the solution by yourself during those sessions...

Absolutely. People fall for the fallacy that shrinks cure you. You cure yourself. The shrink's only job is to help you find a way to cure yourself. If you don't want to cure yourself, don't blame the shrink.

[Muzh]

From this, the problem, Aloe is you.  I don't mean this in a negative way.  In fact, what you feel is no different from what most women your age feel.  Your husband is not the problem. 

Feeling trapped is a choice.  The future is uncertain for everyone, not just you.  You can choose goals.  You have a lot more choices than many people in life, be thankful for that. 

As for standards, what are they that makes him fall short in such a short period of time?  Is this him, or you?  For, if you are unhappy, no man will meet your standards.  You will have a period of short elation, then fall into the same pattern.  Why is your husband not that you want?  It appears he is trying to appease you - the trip to the US, the birthday gift, the studio.  What do you do to appease him?  What od you do to make him feel warm, comfortable, safe, and connected?  Remember, women set the tone for a marriage.  I have told you before, men, for the most part, are uncomplicated. What do you give him?  Do you have an attitude that you want to be happily married?  Do you wake up asking "What can I do to make my husband's life worth living?"


I'm not suggesting you be a martyr, but to really examine, truthfully, what you have brought into your marriage, as it is two way street.  I do hope that, whatever it is you seek for happiness,  you find it.   I just want to provoke some thought in you, coupled with action.

And that would be taking Prozac. Not meant as a joke or insult. I am extremely serious.

[Muzh]

Anyway hubby and i agreed to rent me a studio in september. So that's giant improvement. And after a few months in the studio everything will become obvious by itself i think.

This is the main reason there is so much animosity hatred between divorced couples.

Aloe, I'll repeat what has been said to you; men are easy to deal with. We are NOT that complicated. If you sit down with your husband and say to him you/both made a mistake and it is time to part ways, things will be fine and he may even be a friend.

If you let everything become obvious by itself what you will gain is an enemy. Your soon-to-be-ex will feel you were taking advantage of him and playing him for a fool. The easiest way to make an enemy from a man.

What is obvious is you don't like confrontations. To top that, you are waiting for someone else to do things for you.

You cannot keep running away from reality. You'll have to face it eventually.

[Muzh]

i will be honest once i have the studio. no way im gonna jeopardize it Anyway, we agreed "to spend more time apart". Isnt that pretty straightforward?

Oh man, that is really sick.

[mies]

Then what do you mean by "jeopardizing"? 

another thought occurred to me. In USA to rent an apartment one needs to pass the credit check and to show the stable source of income (i.e.  contract with employer). A person who doesn't work essentially cannot rent any normal place. In Washington DC, for example, there is also a minimal income that is required to rent the apartment. To spare you of guessing, based on my experience, unless you make 80K+, you won't qualify.
But there are many people with smaller income, students, and people who don't earn much, who live in shared houses, or share the apartment. Usually one individual has the required income and signs the lease agreement, and everyone else lives in the apartment "unofficially."

If the situation is any similar in Europe, Aloe wouldn't be able to officially rent the apartment, because she doesn't have her individual income. And even though her parents may be able to support her financially on a monthly basis, it may be difficult for them to deposit to her account a lump sum equal to the year worth of rent. Therefore, she either needs to find friends and move in with them "unofficially" (if that is even possible in EU), or ask her husband to rent a place for her, on the condition that her parents will be paying the rent.

[Muzh]

I think when you lie, it always comes back to you in a negative way, often in ways you don't expect.  It sounds to me as if Aloe has made up her mind, and I don't think she should deceive him.

GOB, I'll side with Boe. She should take the high road.

[Muzh]

I dont think renting a studio after we both agreed "to spend more time apart" is deceiving. Thats exactly what i wanna do, spend more time apart and see how i feel.

It would be best if we stay away from lying.

[Muzh]

Oh, is this what it takes to qualify for "physical abuse" now?   Nothing less?   



Walking out of the room would get same result, I think...



So now this hubby is not only an abuser, but a stalker as well???

Careful not to lower yourself with the ignorants.

[mies]

And that would be taking Prozac. Not meant as a joke or insult. I am extremely serious.

Going on vacation is healthier than taking Prozac, and can be just as effective. Making the husband pay fully for it is arguably a good choice, but there are ways to compensate the husband his expenses.

Generally, I  agree with you, and with Aloe, that lying is very harmful. It's often more damaging to the lying person that to the deceived person - because lie poisons soul, spirit, and thoughts. But I don't think truth is more important than safety when talking to potentially dangerous person.

Aloe, sport is a good and healthy way of getting your anger/steam out.  You may hate doing sport at first, but you will be surprised with results. Find the active, ideally outdoor sports that fits you, and enjoy it. During particularly stressful periods of my life I was/am spending several hours every day exercising. If you need friends - get involved in group sports. When I went to my first marathon I was in a very bad/angry mood. About halfway through the distance, all anger was gone. My friends were asking me before the start "what do you do to cope with nervousness? we are so nervous, how are we going to finish it. It will be difficult." And I didn't care whether I'd finish the marathon or not, I just needed to do something to get my stress out, and it didn't matter how fast I would go or whether I'd reach the finish line. And I did reach the finish line . Got a medal and perfect mood, all anger was gone, I never have been so peaceful

[Muzh]

That's what it takes to qualify as "physical violence". Hubby putting his hand around his wife's neck to grab a glass she's about to throw out of her hand is abuse but he is also making an attempt to prevent abuse caused by his wife at the same time. Do you think he deserves jail for that? Do you think both parties deserve jail for that kind of abuse? Hubby is not a wife beater. If he is, he's not doing a very good job.

So, are you making this about you again?

Anyone with a pin to deflate his ego?

[GoodOlBoy]

Going on vacation is healthier than taking Prozac, and can be just as effective. Making the husband pay fully for it is arguably a good choice, but there are ways to compensate the husband his expenses.

Wow.... all I can say is that I am really disappointed in you Mies. 
 
GOB

[GoodOlBoy]

If you let everything become obvious by itself what you will gain is an enemy. Your soon-to-be-ex will feel you were taking advantage of him and playing him for a fool. The easiest way to make an enemy from a man.

Exactly.
 
GOB

[mies]

Wow.... all I can say is that I am really disappointed in you Mies. 
 
GOB

why? What is wrong to paying the husband money back and going on the trip? Or letting him to take the car to compensate for his expenses? Or other similar arrangements of this sort?

Would it be better not to pay him back and not go on the trip? It's like in a russian joke: Назло кондуктору, куплю билет и не поеду.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Wow.... all I can say is that I am really disappointed in you Mies. 
 
GOB

Why?   I am wondering what you think Mies meant now.

[GoodOlBoy]

I want to clarify something I posted.
 
When I mentioned up-thread an "exit strategy" to Aloe, I was talking about securing financial support, getting a flat, furniture, food, getting utilities turned on, etc. etc. before leaving him.
 
I wasn't referring to holidaying with the man and deceiving him.
 
GOB

[mies]

I want to clarify something I posted.
 
When I mentioned up-thread an "exit strategy" to Aloe, I was talking about securing financial support, getting a flat, furniture, food, getting utilities turned on, etc. before leaving.
 
I wasn't referring to holidaying with the man and deceiving him.
 
GOB

That's what I meant too. Probably that's what everyone meant.

[LiveFromUkraine]

I don't know if I am the odd man out again, but I find it strange that someone would go on a vacation with someone that has hurt them to the point of wanting to leave.


I don't agree with BillyB but I do wonder what the real story is here.  Vacationing with someone who scares you?

[mies]

.

[LiveFromUkraine]

She plans to go on a trip alone. Her husband will join her for a few days in the end of the trip.

That is still vacationing with someone who supposedly scares you to the point you have to lie about wanting to leave.

[mies]

That is still vacationing with someone who supposedly scares you to the point you have to lie about wanting to leave.

There are many things that are difficult to understand.

[Boethius]

No, mies, he is going for at least a week.  IIRC, he is taking the vacation time he can to go to Florida. Aloe is going on to California for some study, I believe, after their vacation.

[Boethius]

There are many things that are difficult to understand.

What's so difficult to understand?  I believe Muzh hit the nail on the head.  Leaving in this way is not about fear of hubby, it is fear of confrontation.  It is about making things comfortable for Aloe, rather than dealing with the messy things life sometimes throws at you. 

[mies]

What's so difficult to understand?  I believe Muzh hit the nail on the head.  Leaving in this way is not about fear of hubby, it is fear of confrontation.

probably. Fear of the unknown is often greater than the fear of known. But the fact Aloe fears confrontation doesn't by default make her husband "safe".

[GoodOlBoy]

Also, I'm not trying to be a smart @ss here, but if he is so "addicted" to video games, how can he go on an extended holiday?
 
Isn't he some type of "healer" or something important?
 
GOB

[mies]

Also, I'm not trying to be a smart @ss here, but if he is so "addicted" to video games, how can he go on an extended holiday?
 
Isn't he some type of "healer" or something important?
 
GOB

maybe that's why it was so difficult to get him agree to go on any vacation.