Sad day

[Boethius]

probably. Fear of the unknown is often greater than the fear of known. But the fact Aloe fears confrontation doesn't by default make her husband "safe".

It doesn't make him a danger, either.


I have a close relative who was in an abusive relationship.  I also had a friend murdered by an abusive husband.  After the murder, I read a lot about abusive relationships, their dynamics, and effects not only on the spouse, but also on children (the murdered friend had two children.)  Other than the one incident, there is nothing in Aloe's posts which indicate her husband is physically abusive, and that she needs to be afraid of him.  He may be mentally abusive, I don't know, but that is a different matter.  I suspect there are close to zero issues with her husband being "unsafe". 

[Misha]

Does he know this "spending time apart" may be a precursor to divorce?

Most men would already understand this without having to be told.

[Boethius]

Most men would already understand this without having to be told.

Evidently, Aloe's husband doesn't, or she wouldn't be trying to hide it.

[GQBlues]

   Aloe definitely captured everyone's attention. She's definitely the darling of the forum...good for her.
 
I'm still a proponent of the value of hearing both sides of the story, thus, like Aloe's therapist, I'd much rather give Aloe an opportunity to hear herself...hard to tell Aloe anything objective as to what she should do with her situation only because I really haven't the foggiest who she is, or any of their marital problems....the physical abuse, that's just a big no-no.
 
What this reminds me of though, was an old friend of mine Tina. Aloe, based on her forum personality, have a lot of Tina's likeability factor. But Tina also had difficulties and challenges with many of her relationships. I remember one time she came running to me to complain about her beau ( I know the dude and I also know how she's so hopelessly in love with the guy, and he to her)...anyway, she spent almost an hour telling me stories of how much of a pain in the ass the dude is to her. Now, some of it I can see for myself without even her telling me about it. But some of the other stuff, well, I know better...I remember telling Tina...
 
"Hon, you know, I'm thinking, it would likely help take off some of that pain in your ass if you are willing to pull your thumb from underneath your butt, too you know. Something else is going on with you and sounds to me like you're unfairly holding Stevie responsible for some of it. No one can ever make a happy house - alone. You've got to want to be there, too"
 
I'm with Muzh, Aloe...deception is just way uncool. 
 

[Muzh]

It doesn't make him a danger, either.


I have a close relative who was in an abusive relationship.  I also had a friend murdered by an abusive husband.  After the murder, I read a lot about abusive relationships, their dynamics, and effects not only on the spouse, but also on children (the murdered friend had two children.)  Other than the one incident, there is nothing in Aloe's posts which indicate her husband is physically abusive, and that she needs to be afraid of him.  He may be mentally abusive, I don't know, but that is a different matter.  I suspect there are close to zero issues with her husband being "unsafe".

Boe, I don't think of him as a 'danger.'

However, if it was may daughter, I would ask her to go away from him. Just to be on the safe side.

[GoodOlBoy]

I have a close relative who was in an abusive relationship.

I have also personally known 2 victims of abuse.
And believe me, they would have NEVER voluntarily gone holidaying with their abuser.
They have both said the same thing: "I just wanted to get as far away from him as I could".
 
GOB

[Boethius]

The woman I knew who was murdered used to go everywhere with her husband.  The day he murdered her, they'd been out at a social function.  I think both had been drinking.  They argued, he stabbed her.  But he used to beat her before that.  I think she stayed for her children, but, who knows?  She wasn't strong enough to leave him.

[Aloe]

Going on vacation is healthier than taking Prozac, and can be just as effective. Making the husband pay fully for it is arguably a good choice, but there are ways to compensate the husband his expenses.

So far 2/3rds of the vacation were paid for by my parents. So i'm going in any case. It is questionable whether he is going, but i wouldn't wanna take it away from him, because america is the only place he actually wants to see.

[Aloe]

I have also personally known 2 victims of abuse.
And believe me, they would have NEVER voluntarily gone holidaying with their abuser.
They have both said the same thing: "I just wanted to get as far away from him as I could".
 
GOB

He wants to see America, and he paid for his part of the trip, so it would be mean to take it away, considering tickets are non-refundable. Of course i could just say i'm leaving, don't bother coming, but i find it incredibly mean because this is the ONLY place on the entire planet he actually wants to see.

[Aloe]

Of course i might not even be leaving?? Maybe after 1 month in my studio i'll miss him so badly i'll come running back.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Of course i might not even be leaving?? Maybe after 1 month in my studio i'll miss him so badly i'll come running back.

You will miss him.  You need to be strong if you believe this is what you want otherwise you will be posting another thread asking why you went back.   


I think vacationing together will make it harder on the both of you.

[Aloe]

And now that i think of it, i've tried to tell him about the gravity of situation multiple times, but his reply EVERY time is, "i'm so awesome, there is no way you'd ever leave me". Even when i was at the hotel, he says it never crossed his mind that i was leaving. He was sitting the entire time wondering when i will be back. I told him "i left you then", he always laughs.

[Misha]

And now that i think of it, i've tried to tell him about the gravity of situation multiple times, but his reply EVERY time is, "i'm so awesome, there is no way you'd ever leave me". Even when i was at the hotel, he says it never crossed his mind that i was leaving. He was sitting the entire time wondering when i will be back. I told him "i left you then", he always laughs.

At the end of the day you did prove him right, as you did go back. You have to ask yourself this question: if he does not change, do you want him as a husband? Yes or no and no maybe.

[Aloe]

I can't decide if his minuses outweigh the pluses.. Depending on the day and time of the day, my decision changes

[Muzh]

I can't decide if his minuses outweigh the pluses.. Depending on the day and time of the day, my decision changes

This is a very wrong way of assessing a relationship.

What you should be considering is the what and why.

Between you and me, he takes you for granted. and you let him.

Basically, you are enabling him.

[Aloe]

This is a very wrong way of assessing a relationship.

What you should be considering is the what and why.

Between you and me, he takes you for granted. and you let him.

Basically, you are enabling him.

What do you mean exactly by what and why?


And how to get him not take me for granted? He just thinks he is too awesome for any girl to leave him, ever.

[Shadow]

What do you mean exactly by what and why?


And how to get him not take me for granted? He just thinks he is too awesome for any girl to leave him, ever.

Aloe you should not think if you want to be with him or not.
You should think if you want him as a father for your children.

He will not change, as men rarely ever do. He will always be demanding and frugal, and if rubbed the wrong way will be calling you names.
Now as you probably know very well, it can be a good counter balance to your desires to fly around everywhere and overspend. But it will mean that you must meet each other in the middle many times. He will have to let you drag him out of his seat and around the world. You will have to let him determine when the budget allows it.

But as you know him best of all people around here, when the time comes that you want children, do you think he will be a good father and raise them together with you? If you can not think of such a future with him, you should consider telling him those doubts at a peaceful moment.

[Gator]

And that would be taking Prozac. Not meant as a joke or insult. I am extremely serious.

You can not be serious!   Do you have any experience with clinical depression? 
 
Prozac is a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor and is used to treat a "major depressive disorder."  This is not aspirin.   The possible side effects are many and can be severe.  For example,  some young people when first taking Prozac have thought about suicide.   Typically the user will experience reduced libido and have difficulty achieving an orgasm. 
 
Read the warning label:   "Report any new or worsening symptoms to your doctor, such as: mood or behavior changes, anxiety, panic attacks, trouble sleeping, or if you feel impulsive, irritable, agitated, hostile, aggressive, restless, hyperactive (mentally or physically), more depressed, or have thoughts about suicide or hurting yourself."  Prozac is not taken willy-nilly.
 
We do not know if Aloe  has clinical depression.  She has  consulted with a psychologist several times, and if something were suspected Aloe would have been referred to a psychiatrist for clinical analysis and possibly given a prescription to be taken under close supervision.  Medication is Aloe's private matter, and it is not important to the issue of whether Aloe should separate from her husband and how.

Medication is akin to a life vest.  Aloe may need a life vest, but she really needs to learn how to swim in the deep end (I. e., when interacting with her husband).  A psychologist can help her learn how to swim.
 
 

[ML]

Anyone notice some differences in the comments toward Aloe compared to comments toward MaxxumUSA.

For instance, just consider one aspect - - - financial.

For Maxxum, he was criticised by many for talking too much about the money he spent on his gal.  And about the money he lost in terms of furniture, etc.  And about 'his' house, 'his' furniture, etc.

Now, in contrast here we hear:  Aloe, make him give back the money your parents gave as wedding gifts, etc.

                        

[Gator]

ML, This is not about money.

[Gator]

Some of you are critical of Aloe's plans.  Some of you are viewing her situation from your perspective, i. e. how you would do it.  Others of you clearly are "black & white" thinkers. 
 
Aloe is Aloe, she is not you.  Clearly she is not assertive, and has merely been coping for years with  a stressful relationship.  Yet to start a new life she must take the lead, something she avoids.  Let her work with her psychologist.  If they choose baby steps, so be it.   
 
And maybe some of these baby steps will encourage hubby to change. 

[Voyager36]

Anyone notice some differences in the comments toward Aloe compared to comments toward MaxxumUSA.

For instance, just consider one aspect - - - financial.

That's the curse of the Y chromosome ML.
 

Upon reflection....
 
If what you say is true Boethius, that Aloe is using her husband as a "holiday mule" to suit her own personal whims and desires, then I would be very disappointed in her.

GOB, her parents paid for her part of the holiday (more or less) and I don't get the impression that she plans to have a holiday and then leave him, she is hoping to work things out. If their relationship deteriorates after that then who know, but I don't see this as going with bad intentions

  Nevertheless, what I am suggesting is, she not set up this apartment through him, she should not be lying to him and telling him this is so that she does not have to commute if, in fact, she is attempting to separate from him.  There is no need to lie.

Boethius, she's said that her parents paid for the apartment, so it's not using him. Perhaps this is a good step, as he can't assume that she is trapped into staying with him for financial reasons (as many young RW would be), so perhaps he will consider their relationship and what he needs to do to keep it.

[Boethius]

My comment was not, and was not intended to be, about who is paying for the studio apartment, Voyager.  It is about why she is taking that apartment and what she is telling him.  Who pays for it is irrelevant. 

[Ooooops]

another thought occurred to me. In USA to rent an apartment one needs to pass the credit check and to show the stable source of income (i.e.  contract with employer). A person who doesn't work essentially cannot rent any normal place.

But how do students rent apartments then?   Oh, sorry, I didn't notice word "normal" at first...   

[Ooooops]

And now that i think of it, i've tried to tell him about the gravity of situation multiple times, but his reply EVERY time is, "i'm so awesome, there is no way you'd ever leave me".

You do know the story about a boy who cried "wolf", don't you?        Words lose their power when handled lightly...