Age Gaps & Money - under a microscope!

[IAmZon]

A recent thread on age gaps, and yet another notice of divorce ... got me thinking over the last few days.  Think back on the various marriages that we have seen fail here; there has been a pattern that is difficult to ignore.

(DISCLAIMER: we usually see only one side of the story, of course - the man's.  And, in many of these cases, it is clear that our brothers in crime are stretching the limits of belief - all things being equal.  League and age gaps.)

It is naive to think that money, and the chance at a better life is not the bedrock motivation for the women.   It is naive to think that men go to such great lengths only to find a true connection; men are seeking a more fantastic version of an ideal romance.   It is very true that if women were a little more "old fashioned," feminine, and thin, in the USA, few men would ever venture to Russia / Ukraine FSU.  Similarly, if there were good prospects in one's home, why would any woman want to leave.

Hold these truths under a bright light and all ought agree this is not an ideal foundation for two human beings to make a meeting.

There is effort on the man's part, and expense to begin this thing.   There is - most of the time - a compromise the woman makes in order to accept a proposal.  (don't you think? no matter how slight)

It would take a rare man to adequately assist the woman in a complete cultural transition.  How could there not be trauma and challenge in the beginning days of an already somewhat compromised relationship. It seems pretty predictable that the woman would begin to harbor some ill will and consider Plan A and Plan B.  I think this is the majority, but I do not want to offend the minority.

For the minority, where the man and woman transition and grow together, is there still a longer term "transactional mechanism" to the marriage?  The woman assumes the man has worldly things, thus she contributes her life to the union.  Is it fair to say that we see Russian women quick to pull up stakes when a little rain comes?   Or, is this a product of other things, or a combination.

What seems clear, however, is this: without a financial benefit of some kind age gaps and league gaps are a long term impossibility. It is an equation as one happily married Russian women commented on this board years ago.  I think she is right.

[Gator]

Riv,
 
For sure RW do not want to marry an AM,  move to the West, and live in poverty.   There are plenty of younger and better looking RM available for such a life without having to leave Mother Russia.
 
At one end of the continuum of which you speak,  some RW are very materialistic and will want to keep trading up if the current model does not deliver the goods.  At the other end of the continuum, some RW are Decembrists.  Most RW are between the two extremes; however, I believe that far more of the former are found listed with MOB agencies because the latter have already found their RM and are staying with him.
 
The key is to know what makes them happy.  Some people will say it is the man's job to make her happy.  I disagree.  A woman is responsible for her own happiness.  However, the man needs to understand her and to facilitate her pursuit of happiness.  One key problem - women change. 
 

[Vaughn]

  One key problem - women change. 

May I add that their inevitable "change" is accelerated by the new environment?

[Faux Pas]

Gator, I agree with most of your statement there however, one thing that gets overlooked continually is, we are all materialistic to some degree. Some more than others, men/women, East/West.

Is a RW looking to trade up from her current circumstances and position in life because of her position or the country she's from? That answer is no. It's the human factor IMHO and the reason that we are all guilty of. We are all looking to improve our station in life or most of us anyway. It's just that most, normal, people do not upgrade spouses.

There aren't many American women downsizing lifestyle for love either. Most do exactly the opposite. Why is it so alarming when FSUW do it?

[Aloe]

I looked abroad because i wanted adventure, and because i perceive western guys to be a lot less promiscuous and less spoiled. Read an article somewhere about an average russian guy sleeping with 25 women in their lifetime, and an average american either 4 or 8. I forgot. I don't like RM at all. Given the choice between a poor better looking RM, and a poor less good looking western guy, i'd go for the western guy every time    In fact i completely avoided RM for the 4 years i looked online. But i might be an extreme case

[Muzh]

I looked abroad because i wanted adventure, and because i perceive western guys to be a lot less promiscuous and less spoiled. Read an article somewhere about an average russian guy sleeping with 25 women in their lifetime, and an average american either 4 or 8. I forgot. I don't like RM at all. Given the choice between a poor better looking RM, and a poor less good looking western guy, i'd go for the western guy every time    In fact i completely avoided RM for the 4 years i looked online. But i might be an extreme case

Sweetie, you don't count. You married someone your age bracket. 

Besides, I give thanks to the lord I'm not an average western man. Four to 8 women in my lifetime? Eek.

I have met a bunch of my nephew's friends who are between 18 and 25. They are just typical and normal kids for their age. They all have their dreams and they are busting their butt to TRY to achieve this.

Just like here.

You'll also find a bunch of assholes with the same attitudes of the RM you sort of despise right here.

You just have to be careful in your selection process. That's all.

[Vinnvinny]

I looked abroad because i wanted adventure, and because i perceive western guys to be a lot less promiscuous and less spoiled. Read an article somewhere about an average russian guy sleeping with 25 women in their lifetime, and an average american either 4 or 8.

One has to assume that 'gays and pastoral folk'* have been included in that average.


* I believe that accounts for about 31.50% of the male population in America.

[ML]

Nice post Rivardco; gives a lot to ponder.

[Faux Pas]

I looked abroad because i wanted adventure, and because i perceive western guys to be a lot less promiscuous and less spoiled. Read an article somewhere about an average russian guy sleeping with 25 women in their lifetime, and an average american either 4 or 8. I forgot. I don't like RM at all. Given the choice between a poor better looking RM, and a poor less good looking western guy, i'd go for the western guy every time    In fact i completely avoided RM for the 4 years i looked online. But i might be an extreme case

I would guess those numbers to be extremely low for the average, maybe I am wrong

[Boethius]

men are seeking a more fantastic version of an ideal romance[/color]

I don't buy this, at least, not from reading this forum.

[ML]

Quote<blockquote>men are seeking a more fantastic version of an ideal romance
</blockquote>

I don't buy this, at least, not from reading this forum.

The two of you need to define the terms and thoughts before others are able to add their invaluable and priceless comments.

[IAmZon]

Bo - "I don't buy this, at least, not from reading this forum."

WHAT? Bo!


You do NOT think that 99% of AM looking for a Slavic woman romanticize and fantasize to unrealistic proportions?!?!?  That seems to be an absolute fact.  (is there any misunderstanding?

[ML]

Aloe:  Read an article somewhere about an average russian guy sleeping with 25 women in their lifetime, and an average american either 4 or 8.

I would guess those numbers to be extremely low for the average, maybe I am wrong

Don't know exact numbers, but I think it is a bimodal distribution.

i.e. There are many, many guys who have had only one partner,  or perhaps two or three.

Then, there are a fair number who have had 25, 50, 100 or more.
The average may come out to 8, but that average masks huge differences.

[ML]

One has to assume that 'gays and pastoral folk'* have been included in that average.  * I believe that accounts for about 31.50% of the male population in America.

Vinny, if you are thinking that 'gays' pull down the averages, I think you are wrong.

From what I understand from casual reading, gays have much more sex and with more partners than do straight men.

And, it makes perfect sense if thought about logically.  i.e. Men have much higher sex drives than women (gays still have that testosterone) so when two gays first set eyes on each other . . . it's like Julia Roberts told Richard Gere in Pretty Woman . . . 'I am a sure thing.'

And 'pastoral folk' . . . I have no ideas at all there.

But in the 'good old days,' there were huge numbers of children produced by those folks.

[ML]

fantasize to unrealistic proportions?!?!? 

It is not unrealistic . . . it can be achieved!!!

[Boethius]

Vinny, if you are thinking that 'gays' pull down the averages, I think you are wrong.

From what I understand from casual reading, gays have much more sex and with more partners than do straight men.

And, it makes perfect sense if thought about logically.  i.e. Men have much higher sex drives than women (gays still have that testosterone) so when two gays first set eyes on each other . . . it's like Julia Roberts told Richard Gere in Pretty Woman . . . 'I am a sure thing.'

And 'pastoral folk' . . . I have no ideas at all there.

Yeah.  There aren't too many heterosexual men frequenting parks/bath houses/public washrooms, etc., in hopes of finding a woman hanging around for casual, anonymous sex.

[Boethius]

Bo - "I don't buy this, at least, not from reading this forum."

WHAT? Bo!


You do NOT think that 99% of AM looking for a Slavic woman romanticize and fantasize to unrealistic proportions?!?!?  That seems to be an absolute fact.  (is there any misunderstanding?

I agree they fantasize, but I disagree that they are looking for romance.  Romance connotes emotional intimacy, not merely physical attraction.  Most (note, I say most, not all) are looking for women abroad because of physical, not emotional characteristics.  Emotional intimacy takes time, and deep understanding, which are generally not characteristics associated with this endeavor.

[ML]

I agree they fantasize, but I disagree that they are looking for romance.  Romance connotes emotional intimacy, not merely physical attraction.  Most (note, I say most, not all) are looking for women abroad because of physical, not emotional characteristics.  Emotional intimacy takes time, and deep understanding, which are generally not characteristics associated with this endeavor.

Boe, wouldn't you agree that the vast majority of the guys 'who post here' were or are looking for Romance as you defined it?

[Boethius]

  It is very true that if women were a little more "old fashioned," feminine, and thin, in the USA, few men would ever venture to Russia / Ukraine FSU

Also don't buy this.  What does "old fashioned" mean?  Cooking, cleaning, taking care of a home?  Reliant on a man?  Or beside him?
 

Boe, wouldn't you agree that the vast majority of the guys 'who post here' were or are looking for Romance as you defined it?

No.  I think those men are a minority of those posting here, though the minority are here.  I think many men posting here pay lip service to "looking for romance", but if you read their posts over time, it's not really what they seek.

[Muzh]

Bo - "I don't buy this, at least, not from reading this forum."

WHAT? Bo!


You do NOT think that 99% of AM looking for a Slavic woman romanticize and fantasize to unrealistic proportions?!?!?  That seems to be an absolute fact.  (is there any misunderstanding?

I'll side with ML (just this once) and ask you, again, to define what do you mean by romanticize and fantasize.

What exactly are they planning to do to unrealistic proportions?

Are you talking about giving her your CC so she can buy a Mercedes, furs, thousands of shoes in exchange for love?

Or are you talking about taking away her PP, locking her in the house and making sure she behaves traditionally?

[Boethius]

I do agree with riv that men romanticize FSUW, sometimes, to their peril.  But, that is different from seeking romance.

[IAmZon]

I agree they fantasize, but I disagree that they are looking for romance.  Romance connotes emotional intimacy, not merely physical attraction.

Oh, well. I do not subscribe to the idea of "getting lucky."  Often times, sex is not that good - to be 100% honest.  I much prefer - require - a connection.  But, such a connection comes in many forms; and can indeed occur in days and weeks, not months and years. At least this is my experience.

[IAmZon]

But, to shine the light on the PINK ELEPHANT that is sitting in the middle of the room ... many happy marriages are only happy (and still in existence because of the underlying fact that the man is providing a better life and expanded choices to the woman.

Now this occurs in a matter of degrees, and is not necessarily wrong, or evil.  But, it is a truth; one the is rarely acknowledged.

[Boethius]

A connection is one thing, the beginning of a relationship.  But in my definition, emotional intimacy connotes trust, opening your heart and soul to someone in a way you do not to anyone else.  You have no secrets, no lies.  This person knows the real you, and loves you, warts and all.  That can only develop over time.
 
As for the pink elephant, can't the same be said of WM/WW couples?  Have you known any WM/WW couples who divorced when the business failed, or one suffered illness?
 
I "get" what you're saying, I don't even disagree, and it is a factor when you pursue someone who is trying to improve her material status.  But, I don't think it is restricted to FSUW marriages. 

[GQBlues]

Anyone can shove this affair under a microscope as much as they want and the only thing they'll find is there's no absolution in generalities.
 
In a relatively short sampling of failed marriages that this site is aware of...GregfromGA, KenC, ScottinCrimea, Gator, MaxxumUSA, AJ, etc...the reasons are more or less different. The only consistent pattern is, they were once married and are now divorced (Maxxum's inevitable as this just recently occurred).
 
Life happens....
 
add: The closest thing that even have a semblance of similarity is most* of the guys in those marriages at one time believed and declared how their respective wives were the best thing going and can never do wrong. Almost as if they walked on water...but eventually hurriedly escorted them to the gates of hell in a relatively short time just the same.
 
Again...Life happens.
 
(* I said 'most' not 'all'. That's why I stated a semblance of similarity)