Understanding the psychology of young FSU brides?

[YoungBuck]

As a Dad who has married off two daughters so far, I can address this with great authority: Frankly, I haven't a clue what most of those young ladies are "thinking." Go ask my wife. 


On a more serious note...

To see the world. The grand quest to discover whether the grass is truly that much greener on the other side. Hmm, that might be said about we WM as well.

The question to you as a dad, is how would you feel if she decided to do this? What would you ask her, and what would you counsel?

There are other ways to see the world, so exactly why is through marriage the first one that comes to mind?

[mendeleyev]

The question to you as a dad, is how would you feel if she decided to do this? What would you ask her, and what would you counsel?

I'd be loving, but disappointed, if a daughter even thought this. We have been fortunate to have by the grace of God to have given them what Mrs. M calls a "good upbringing" for the most part. However neither we or they are perfect so of course it is always a possibility. If you don't talk to kids when they're small about values, then you'll let others instill them for you. That is a parents responsibility, not some dimwitted "village" concept, and the earlier you start the better. It's like chewing with their mouths open, or talking over someone else, or throwing tantrums in the market. Begin teaching at an early age and you'll have far fewer embarrassing moments out in public when they're older.

The FSU is just like many others places around the world these days: parents aren't always engaged in the lives of their children. So if a child said they viewed marriage this way, I'd know that my parenting skills had failed. Badly. I'd start there, explaining that I had failed them and with an apology. They next thing I'd do if she was 20 something is ask for permission to reteach about marriage because obviously we didn't get it right the first time.

We gave each of our girls the choice, cause you can teach but you can't force, of doing a more traditional courtship or modern dating. At first both chose the more traditional route and frankly, it saved the older one when "Sergei" was knocking up his new friend at college. She was away from us more often when she met her husband so her next time was different only because of distance. It worked for both so I'm happy that each showed the kind of independence at an early age to make a choice and then the wisdom to carry it out in a thoughtful manner.

I do converse with young adults at places like Moscow State and it is not unusual for a gal to ask about what life is like in the USA whereas some of the young men want to access the readiness of the USA Army so that they can kick our butts when WWIII comes around. Russian boys generally have a poor perception of Western girls and many just aren't interested, but the girls are interested in what young guys are like in the West. 

Were I a 45 year old guy (I'm not) under the delusion that I think younger, look younger, act younger, piss differently, etc, etc, than the typical 45 year old guy I wouldn't dare even thinking about marrying a typical 24 year FSU gal. No offense please to those have done so successfully, you have little quarrel with me most of the time and even have my respect, but knowing what I know--there is not a snowball's chance in hell. There are a few mature older gentlemen in this game who do okay with the rare mature 24 year old, so I'll not knock them but it wouldn't be for me.

Mrs M just happens to be the most beautiful woman on the planet and she isn't anywhere near 24, even though on a scale from 1 to 10 she is a 100,000! She is genuinely beautiful. She seems to put up with me cause she nibbles on my ear, often greets me out of the shower with a warm towel, we laugh a lot together, read each others minds, yes we kiss and do what lovers do, and I wouldn't trade her for the world. She often lays her head on my shoulder and relaxes when riding the Metro so that forces me to stay awake so that we don't miss our station. Other that this one glaring fault, she is darn near perfect.

The pretty lady wanted to know earlier this week why I don't sing to her more often! Sing? Really, am I the only one who notices that the neighborhood dogs howl or perhaps that is mere coincidence? I pulled out a Bobby Caldwell CD and sang along--she laughed for 30 minutes before asking me to sing more often. Two days later and the dogs are still howling. On a serious note, I do sing in our Church choir under the excuse that even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Those who know us personally know that I stand up when she enters a room, even when alone. I open doors, pull out chairs, and hang coats too. I'd make one hell of a butler someday if bored in retirement. She has earned my respect and I am deeply fortunate having learned that no matter how much I try to love her, she loves me even more.

Are we perfect? Heck no. Do we have arguments? Yes (the worst part is that I often discover that she was right!). But do we make up and say things like "I'm sorry" or "I was wrong"? Yes.

Those, YoungBuck, are things that children see. Children grow up and model at age 23 what they saw and experienced in childhood. That is one of the reasons why men absolutely must get to know a lady in her environment. Sorry, but I disagree that the only acceptable time to meet parents is when proposing. I was married in a traditional Russian courtship and know what is acceptable in this part of the world and what isn't. Parents being involved has historically been at very high levels in courtship.

There are folks who choose to do it differently and I'm okay with that too if the reasons for a different route is legit and not an excuse by the girl to shield the guy from seeing her life as it really may be. We have some great examples on this forum, my friend Misha being one, who did it differently and they did it very well. He also spent a lot of time in-country, speaks the language fluently and found a great lady in the process.

[YoungBuck]

 Based on your response then I wonder what we are doing here. Seriously speaking,  then what type of woman is attracted to MOB style of marriage?  sounds to me either the gold diggers,  pathologically shy,  or damaged.

 I'm a pretty good judge of character so I'm going to  continue searching and find my diamond  in the rough. Have you encountered such precious stones in your years in Russia who are serious about MOB marriage and are young?

[Belvis]

Those, YoungBuck, are things that children see. Children grow up and model at age 23 what they saw and experienced in childhood and teen years.

I wonder how often your extensive russo-american family has a chance to get together all folks at the dinner table. It would be challenge for your girls to model your relationship, you've set the bar so high.
Though... seeing your wife and her works... may be the bar at the appropriate height 

[mendeleyev]

Thank you, Belvis.

I always wanted to set the bar very high. My attitude was that if some young kid wanted to take a daughter to the concert that he'd be punted if he failed to take her coat, failed to walk closest to traffic when on a sidewalk together, open doors, etc. I didn't raise spoiled princesses, but we did raise ladies. 

Now that the 3 have grown, gone, moved out, we still have close relationships with relatives and friends but of course miss having our "brood" together as it just can't happen as often.

In our Moscow apartment we used the "main" room for dinners at night and at times it was like the entire student body cramped into a VW beetle. In that one room we've seated, rather squeezed, 16-18 people around a table. Actually, those are the most fun because you just can't be too formal in such a setting. With everyone so close it becomes fun, even funny. Lots of smiles and that is a great way to spend dinner with those you cherish.

I remember one time a little friend who came for a weekend lunch. I was in charge of the kitchen that day and this Russian girl's eyes went wide when she saw that I'd prepared and was serving the meal. She leaned over to my daughter and whispered, "Does he know how to cook? For real?"

It was our middle daughter and she whispered back: "Nobody has died. Yet."

In more recent times we moved outside Moscow to a dacha on a lake. Along with a full basement art studio for my wife, a radio studio for my voice work with space for me to write, it has something my wife has never had before--a dining room all its own. No sofa to fold out into a bed at night, no wardrobe holding extra clothes in the corner and no folding dining table to put away after everyone has left. Having this room easily accommodates relatives and being surrounded by the ones you love makes life memorable.

[mendeleyev]

I'm a pretty good judge of character so I'm going to  continue searching and find my diamond  in the rough. Have you encountered such precious stones in your years in Russia who are serious about MOB marriage and are young?

I sense that you are too. She is waiting for you.

Most of the serious ones aren't so young and therein lies the problem for the men whose only knowledge about FSU dating is from a YouTube video or a 30 second TV ad.

Russia (and the other Republics) is no different really than back home when it comes to human nature. The agency idea of her singing songs while mopping the floors is a fantasy from a different planet. However there are some great ladies, and they are worth the effort.

As you are young, my advice is not to rush. Time and patience is key. If a guy can only make a trip or two, please travel for the experience and have the vacation of a lifetime! But don't bet the farm on someone who is really a two-week stranger unless you have the time and patience to do it right and get to know her while letting her get to know you. You actually have time on your side.

The most dangerous proposition is this: In our hometown we meet a lady, date awhile, break up and then regroup and start the process all over again. Long distance relationships have high risks because unlike meeting someone locally where a break up leaves you both free, there are real downsides for both parties if the marriage is rushed and then over time doesn't make it.

[calmissile]

Mendy,

Your posts lately are awsome.  I hope you continue to have time to post frequently.  As a married couple, you are providing the insight into what married life is like to a FWUW.  Much more educational than advice about dating (many years ago).  Many of us in relationships are intested in the 'settling down' and adjustments to married life to a FSUW.  It sounds like you and wifey are very happy together and an encouragement for many of us to follow in your footsteps.

[Shadow]

Based on your response then I wonder what we are doing here. Seriously speaking,  then what type of woman is attracted to MOB style of marriage?  sounds to me either the gold diggers,  pathologically shy,  or damaged.

 I'm a pretty good judge of character so I'm going to  continue searching and find my diamond  in the rough. Have you encountered such precious stones in your years in Russia who are serious about MOB marriage and are young?

The women attracted to MOB dating are the ones who can not find what they seek at home, and the ones who are just in it for the fun.

Sometimes it may be because they are not in to the party and easy sex scene, and having less chances to meet guys. Sometimes it may be their demands are beyond what RM can provide, and that does not have to be in the financial way. A 'real' RM is often perceived as a player who likes to drink with his friends and chases girls even if he has a wife at home, and the more money they have to spend the worse their habits get. This is of course not true, but it is the perception of many young women, including those NOT looking abroad.

With internet being extremely popular in the FSU, especially in the young generation, those who are looking for a husband might join just for the fun of it, and be shocked if any guy actually wants to show up.

[ML]

The agency idea of her singing songs while mopping the floors is a fantasy from a different planet.

Well . . . I have actually seen and heard this!!!!

From both FSUW and AW.

But yes,  not common.

As an aside.  On my second date with a late 40s FSUW, we were walking through a small park and she asked if I would like to hear her sing some folk songs (and maybe even some typically sang to babies).

I said yes; and I was quite touched by this.  Things didn't work out overall for us; but I still fondly remember this event.

Many, including my current Gal, have refused to sing anything, saying they are terrible singers.  But they like to hear me sing; even as I am really bad!!

[ML]

might join just for the fun of it, and be shocked if any guy actually wants to show up.

This happened with me twice.  The women apparently had experienced many men who never showed, so they were in disbelief when I told them I had my ticket and told them the day we would meet.

One did finally meet with me, but she was still too flustered for it to go anywhere; the other one just never answered again.

[Shadow]

Well . . . I have actually seen and heard this!!!!

From both FSUW and AW.

But yes,  not common.

As an aside.  On my second date with a late 40s FSUW, we were walking through a small park and she asked if I would like to hear her sing some folk songs (and maybe even some typically sang to babies).

I said yes; and I was quite touched by this.  Things didn't work out overall for us; but I still fondly remember this event.

Many, including my current Gal, have refused to sing anything, saying they are terrible singers.  But they like to hear me sing; even as I am really bad!!

I wonder if you have translated the songs they sing to babies...
One very nice sounding one that sooths our guys is telling them to stay in the bed away from the edge as otherwise the wolf may enter and take them....

[ML]

I wonder if you have translated the songs they sing to babies...
One very nice sounding one that sooths our guys is telling them to stay in the bed away from the edge as otherwise the wolf may enter and take them....

Yes, I forgot to note that I knew zero about  what she was singing; it just  sounded very nice.

And, I know how terrible some of the children's songs and fairy tales really are in both East and West.

[Shadow]

Yes, I forgot to note that I knew zero about  what she was singing; it just  sounded very nice.

And, I know how terrible some of the children's songs and fairy tales really are in both East and West.

Not terrible, just based in another time.
In the old days in Russia one could actually imagine predators at night prowling around to catch a snack....
Just because we are raised as sissies who try to avoid any kind of hurt or violence does not mean we should abandon or change the old stories.

Today I was telling my sons the story of Jack and the Beanstalk. My oldest son understood the story and started telling the Mickey Mouse Clubhouse version. Of course there the giant turns out to be a stupid but good guy who just wants something to cuddle....

It is funny how my kids are different in character. I was joking about a monster under the bed to keep them from running out. Where the eldest got scared, the youngest looked with interest under the bed to find the monster....

[Zmejka]

what motivates the younger ones (18-23) to search internationally?

I think that there is also an aspect that can be important - nowadays there are many exchange programs like Work&Travel to the USA where the students up to 25 years old are admitted. I myself participated in that program and when i returned i placed an ad on the international dating site, i was 21 then. I know the half of my university fellows who also returned from such programs and the nostalgy, the difference in the lifestyles, in people - everything was so big that we all wanted to go back. In half a year this desire would be gone by most but still there are people who would seek the way to get back abroad, and for the girls marriage is a good option.

The age of 21-22 is the age of the last year in the university, it seemed like the "young years" are passing by, one need to get serious with life, and what is getting serious for a russian women? Mostly - to get married of to find a constant boyfriend. It's strange as i look back now and think - why these thoughts about getting serious at so young age? There could be no desire to get married yet, also no push from my parents' side, no gossips of fear to stay alone etc. But then it was common for girls that age to think (prompt by the surroundings, traditions especially in small cities): it's the time to stop partying, there's an adult life ahead of you - work, marriage, children. So should it be. And why to look abroad? I personally didn't have bad experience with the local guys, no previous marriages of children so my chances with the local guys were still ok. So i think by many young girls. It all begins with the absence of a local boyfriend and with the curiosity, why not? There's nothing to lose.

[Larry1]

I personally didn't have bad experience with the local guys, no previous marriages of children so my chances with the local guys were still ok.

Zmejka,

Does a girl with a child have much more difficulty finding a serious boyfriend or husband in FSU?

[BillyB]

It all begins with the absence of a local boyfriend and with the curiosity, why not?

If a RW wanted to find a local boyfriend, I think it would be easy but the boyfriend may not be serious or marriage material. I think it's the shortage of marriage quality men that is the problem for RW. There's nothing wrong with a person looking for something better in their lives or looking for a better place to live to raise their families. Your profile says you're committed. Did you find a guy outside your country? How long did it take you from when you started on international dating sites till you found a guy you felt you could marry and have a family with? I think most people in this endeavor won't have instant success and quit early after one or a few bad experiences.

[Patagonie]

This happened with me twice.  The women apparently had experienced many men who never showed, so they were in disbelief when I told them I had my ticket and told them the day we would meet.

One did finally meet with me, but she was still too flustered for it to go anywhere; the other one just never answered again.

It is worse than that :
a lot of stupid men, while on sites, try to hook some women's attention, by telling them that they have a ticket. Just to get some correspondance !!!
This what a lady explained me three years ago.

[Shadow]

I had another experience. One of my contacts demanded me to travel within 3 weeks or she was not interested. I hope she found a guy she liked and who would fly at her demand.

[Gator]

Zmejka,
 
   back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Where have you been? You were always an insightful and dignified voice. 

[Larry1]

I had another experience. One of my contacts demanded me to travel within 3 weeks or she was not interested. I hope she found a guy she liked and who would fly at her demand.

At least two girls asked me in our first brief skype conversations when I was coming to meet them. One didn't even get to that point but asked in our first exchange of emails.  It boggles my mind that they expect a guy to fly across the world, spending thousands of dollars and limited vacation time, to meet someone without first seeing if we have some rapport by talking on skype a bit.

[GoodOlBoy]

......meet someone without first seeing if we have some rapport by talking on skype a bit.

Define "a bit".
 
GOB

[Faux Pas]

If a RW wanted to find a local boyfriend, I think it would be easy but the boyfriend may not be serious or marriage material. I think it's the shortage of marriage quality men that is the problem for RW. There's nothing wrong with a person looking for something better in their lives or looking for a better place to live to raise their families. Your profile says you're committed. Did you find a guy outside your country? How long did it take you from when you started on international dating sites till you found a guy you felt you could marry and have a family with? I think most people in this endeavor won't have instant success and quit early after one or a few bad experiences.

Given from your unique perspective as a RW living in Russia? 

[Larry1]

Define "a bit".
 
GOB

For the first FSUW I visited she walked home from work every day at lunch so we could talk on skype.  We had great rapport from the very beginning, so much so that I suggested that I visit her about ten days from our first conversation.  She agreed.  I applied for the visa and bought tickets.  I met her at the airport less than six weeks from our first conversation.

The second FSUW I visited about three and a half weeks after our first conversation.

[Zmejka]

Gator, thanks a lot for your warm words! I'm still here, cheking the site from time to time, but as i'm a slow reader there are always somebody who would have already expressed thoughts similair to mine on the subject, so i keep reading:)
 

Zmejka,

Does a girl with a child have much more difficulty finding a serious boyfriend or husband in FSU?

Larry, there's such a statement. Neither I nor my girldriends in Russia have such an experience, they are now 29-30 and are getting the first or a second child with their russian husbands whom they married in the age of  24-25. I know the examples in our distant family where a 36-year-old divorced woman with a child is now dating a divorced man and her mother said that it was not difficult to find a lover, but he doesn't think of a marriage yet. Another example is a woman with two children who's man is drinking more or less the whole their married life. And she never had a courage to divorce him, now she's scared he would set their house on fire when drunk, she wouldn't let him alone, their children resent him, she curse him with the last words when speaking to my mother - but she never thought of divorcing him.
But there's also an example of my close girlfriend's family. Her mother learned at the age of 45 that her husband has a "second family" with a child while they also had two children together. She divorced him and a few years later married her collegue. I guess it depends. That's the only examples i have, other families of my mother generation are with each other in the first marriage, no one of my girlfriends with a child divorced as wel.

There's nothing wrong with a person looking for something better in their lives or looking for a better place to live to raise their families. Your profile says you're committed. Did you find a guy outside your country? How long did it take you from when you started on international dating sites till you found a guy you felt you could marry and have a family with? I think most people in this endeavor won't have instant success and quit early after one or a few bad experiences.

Indeed Billy there's nothing wrong with that. Yes, i found my partner from another country on the internet dating site. I think i got lucky because it was within a year when i met him, he was first and the last who visited me and it was good at once. I wasn't really serious that time about getting married etc., i didn't write it in my ad, it was nice to chat with some guys but there were no stable conversations before he wrote to me. In a 3,5 months we found out we have much in common, then he visited and in a half a year i was with him. It was good that the immigration to his country allowed to live together without any pressure to get married, so we tried it - the first experience for both of us, me 22 and him 24 then, and it worked. Still works 7 years later.
I think may be i would also leave the international dating if there was no succes, i dated local boys whom i met on the local sites of my city, at one moment i ended this. So it could have happened with the international dating too, but as i said i got lucky to meet my boyfriend, he was serious and i grew serious too - for him.

[GoodOlBoy]

For the first FSUW I visited she walked home from work every day at lunch so we could talk on skype.  We had great rapport from the very beginning, so much so that I suggested that I visit her about ten days from our first conversation.  She agreed.  I applied for the visa and bought tickets.  I met her at the airport less than six weeks from our first conversation.

The second FSUW I visited about three and a half weeks after our first conversation.

And I thought I was pretty fast (almost 3 months). 
 
GOB