Boston marathon bombers are Chechens?

[Darth_Budda]

A lot of this makes no sense...

The FBI and CIA have a history of terrorist activities...

Bombing civilians. " Bay of pigs"
Bombing first responders when they show up. " Bay of Pigs"

Killed various Leftist people all over south America, Including American citizens.

On the day of the Boston bombing the USA committed a act of terrorism..
They blew up a wedding in afghanistan by mistake.. Killing 30 civilians, men women and children...

So I don't think we should trust every word the government says. 
No let us see the proof,, And use due process in civilian court.

We need to close military detention centers not open more.

[Ade]

Really, and why pray tell would you guess that?

Though I said that partly tongue in cheek, I wouldn't be surprised if it was more true than not given the paranoia in your country - I guess you read about the 2 Arabic dudes ejected from the American Airlines plane not long after the bombing because they were talking, shock-horror, Arabic? lol

I don't have any munitions shops. Live in your fantasy land if you wish to there, Hero. It is all traceable. If they made the bomb, somebody knows about it and can tie them to it. Where is this evidence?

There you go; http://www.buffaloarms.com/Content.aspx?PAGE=Black%20Powder
And FWIW, black power is not traceable. Each grain does not have a serial number ya know, and unless you guys are even more paranoid than I think, I'd be surprised if you keep track of all your pressure cookers either. lol

Agree with Pit if you wish (big surprise there  ) that doesn't make either of you right. What if it isn't bad reporting. Please tell us Mr. enlightened, what was the bad reporting and what was the good?

Good reporting should be factual. Simple really.  And what was the bad? The full extent, it's hard to say, but there were certainly some pretty obvious snafus like the unexploded bombs found in the vicinity, which was later retracted. I'm fairly sure that it'll all come out in the wash of the legal proceedings. 

[Ranetka]

OMG OMG you have got to be kidding me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Holy crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  You want a fair trial for a terrorist?  Fuck him! And you talk about no terrorist acts in Russia or UK???  are you fucking nuts?  OMG OMG in my lifetime I have seen many horrible acts in both those countries and in Europe and in the UK and USA.  Holy shit how clueless are you?
 
You don't want to condemn this young man because he is young?  Are you fucking nuts?  I say the death penalty BIG TIME.
 
Where the fuck are you from?
Holy shit you piss me off!!!

Do you have reading comprehention problems? There was PLENTY of terrorist acts in both countries and never  the UK or Russia had to stop working/being outside/living.
You post only prove my point.
 
 

[Ranetka]

OMG OMG you have got to be kidding me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Holy crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You want a fair trial for a terrorist? Fuck him! And you talk about no terrorist acts in Russia or UK???  are you fucking nuts?  OMG OMG in my lifetime I have seen many horrible acts in both those countries and in Europe and in the UK and USA.  Holy shit how clueless are you?
 
You don't want to condemn this young man because he is young?  Are you fucking nuts?  I say the death penalty BIG TIME.
 
Where the fuck are you from?
Holy shit you piss me off!!!

You drink too much dear, calm the fuck down, will you.

Just in case you're reading it sober, also for other people. I (personally) do not care if he gets a fair trial or not, it's his and American justice system's problem. My statement is HE WILL NOT GET ONE. EVER. Because the majority are like you, need to hang someone. Partly for revenge and partly so they feel they are now safe again. Hopefully this guy is guilty and will be hung for something he has done.

 

[Faux Pas]

Though I said that partly tongue in cheek, I wouldn't be surprised if it was more true than not given the paranoia in your country - I guess you read about the 2 Arabic dudes ejected from the American Airlines plane not long after the bombing because they were talking, shock-horror, Arabic? lol

You made the asinine statement, knowing full well it was asinine and attempting to pass it of as something truthful. Good going there hero. Are you sure you weren't reporting from Boston?

There you go; http://www.buffaloarms.com/Content.aspx?PAGE=Black%20Powder
And FWIW, black power is not traceable. Each grain does not have a serial number ya know, and unless you guys are even more paranoid than I think, I'd be surprised if you keep track of all your pressure cookers either. lol

Your contempt, hatred and envy of all things American is hardly veiled in this statement and you know far less than you think. A serial number on every grain of black powder. That real brilliant of you there Ade. Did you get help with that discovery or did you figure that out all by yourself?

Remain in your denial. I have no skin in that game but, bomb making materials are traceable

Good reporting should be factual. Simple really. 

That's quite profound. Maybe there is hope for you after all. 

And what was the bad? The full extent, it's hard to say, but there were certainly some pretty obvious snafus like the unexploded bombs found in the vicinity, which was later retracted. I'm fairly sure that it'll all come out in the wash of the legal proceedings. 

Allow me to fill you in, we still do not know the good from the bad. We know there was an awful lot of bad and logic dictates there was was good and truth among it. What will come out in the "wash" is what is permitted to come out in the wash by the powers that be. I'll stand by my statement that, if those guys made a bomb. Somebody knew about it and it is "all" traceable. If these guys were highly trained terrorist it would be one thing. The early returns point to complete and total amateurs. But, feel good Mr. Chivalry, I am sure the damsel appreciates your lost effort in defending her ludicrous position.

[pitbull]

Um, he's Saudi. My guess is that they have all resident Saudis on a watch list. 



What logistics? AFAIK, It was a pressure cooker, black powder and a timer. I could build an untraceable one myself if I were in the US with access to your munitions shops.

I tend to agree with Pit. Most of the (mis)information the conspiracy theorists are working with is down to bad reporting and confused eye witnesses.

Yes, all Saudi males 18-25 that apply for US visas, let alone come to the country, are on a watch list, they are checked, traced and re-checked a thousand times. Insider info. 
Really, I don't like to look for a black cat in a dark room, especially if the cat is not there. Just use Occam's razor. The cookers were bought at Macy's according to what I heard yesterday in the news.
Anyway, this thread is showing a very peculiar trait of American mentality that I once read about: "Many Americans mistrust the Federal government to the point that they look for the Feds' conspiracy and plotting behind most things, including the terrorist acts. No matter how much evidence to the contrary is shown". I guess its not such a bad thing, just looks silly sometimes to an outside observer 

[pitbull]

Your contempt, hatred and envy of all things American is hardly veiled in this statement and you know far less than you think.
 

Faux Pas, I don't think Ade, myself or anyone that does not support conspiracy theories has " contempt, hatred and envy of all things American". This is just how Europeans think and see things. I work a lot with people from all over the world and most europeans match my impression of America and Americans almost to a "T" : the good, the bad, the peculiar, and some things that are outright weird 

[Ade]

You made the asinine statement, knowing full well it was asinine and attempting to pass it of as something truthful. Good going there hero. Are you sure you weren't reporting from Boston?

Your contempt, hatred and envy of all things American is hardly veiled in this statement and you know far less than you think. A serial number on every grain of black powder. That real brilliant of you there Ade. Did you get help with that discovery or did you figure that out all by yourself?

Remain in your denial. I have no skin in that game but, bomb making materials are traceable

 

That's quite profound. Maybe there is hope for you after all. 

Allow me to fill you in, we still do not know the good from the bad. We know there was an awful lot of bad and logic dictates there was was good and truth among it. What will come out in the "wash" is what is permitted to come out in the wash by the powers that be. I'll stand by my statement that, if those guys made a bomb. Somebody knew about it and it is "all" traceable. If these guys were highly trained terrorist it would be one thing. The early returns point to complete and total amateurs. But, feel good Mr. Chivalry, I am sure the damsel appreciates your lost effort in defending her ludicrous position.

Yep, I think I'll stand by my "paranoid" claim. lol

[Gator]

I still don't necessarily trust the media and how they report "facts."

I agree for reports that come immediately after a sensational event.     However, after a few days the media tends to piece together a reasonable story.  Carrying the most weight are the findings of the  law enforcement investigation,  and it takes longer than a few days to complete.  We are in the early stages of that process now.   As an example, the police are still determining if Dzhokhar fired a weapon when in the boat.
 
 

Got a link to the video of him detonating the bombs?

Video!   For a timer?   
 
Perhaps you are being sarcastic.  However, you raise an important point.  Without this video, possibly some liberal hearted members of a jury may simply look at the innocent looking face of teenager Dzhokhar and doubt his guilt.    If we had a video of OJ Simpson plunging a knife into his wife, perhaps the black jurists would have found him guilty. 
 
 

Why is it every piece of evidence being put forth is missing a vital segment where they can clearly show these guys in the act?   

Another who wants a video of the brothers detonating the bombs.
 
 

If they shot the cop and took his gun and used it during their alleged gun battle, why not investigate the spent shells or stray bullets for ballistic to find out it was in fact the gun the dead cop had?

Did you see the bullet riddled police SUV?  It appears a thousand rounds were fired by both sides.  It will take a long time to analyze.  Meanwhile,  a bystander made photos of the gun battle showing the brothers in action.   And maybe the State never prosecutes for the murder of the MIT officer if the Feds take the prosecution lead under terrorism charges, and if so the ballistics are unnecessary.

[Darth_Budda]

The suspects car only had one bullet hole. a shot on the passenger side that went through the windshield and out the back.   

[GQBlues]

...
I tend to agree with Pit. Most of the (mis)information the conspiracy theorists are working with is down to bad reporting and confused eye witnesses.

Well, that's pretty much all the arresting authorities have that the public knows about, too.

Everyone seem to keep on sidestepping the matter of evidence. If there's a video that shows the brothers laying down their backpacks, or even one of them, and 10 seconds later it explodes...please give us the link.

...Perhaps you are being sarcastic.  However, you raise an important point.  Without this video, possibly some liberal hearted members of a jury may simply look at the innocent looking face of teenager Dzhokhar and doubt his guilt.    If we had a video of OJ Simpson plunging a knife into his wife, perhaps the black jurists would have found him guilty....

Whoops, there's OJ again. He's everywhere!..the kid must be guilty. 
 

...Another who wants a video of the brothers detonating the bombs....

Having concrete, indisputable evidence would certainly help the cause and give a reason why would the government deprive anyone their Constitutional right.
 

...Did you see the bullet riddled police SUV?  It appears a thousand rounds were fired by both sides.  It will take a long time to analyze....

I seriously doubt the older brother was firing at themselves. Why would they investigate the SUV if the ballistic they're trying to match was from the alleged gun they killed the cop for?

... Meanwhile,  a bystander made photos of the gun battle showing the brothers in action.   And maybe the State never prosecutes for the murder of the MIT officer if the Feds take the prosecution lead under terrorism charges, and if so the ballistics are unnecessary....

I saw the photo. Was the one you saw happened during daylight hours clearly showing who the people are? Because the one I saw, you couldn't tell how many, much less what gender, those figures are. Maybe it's because someone said those are the brothers and hence, they must be.

[Faux Pas]

Faux Pas, I don't think Ade, myself or anyone that does not support conspiracy theories has " contempt, hatred and envy of all things American". This is just how Europeans think and see things. I work a lot with people from all over the world and most europeans match my impression of America and Americans almost to a "T" : the good, the bad, the peculiar, and some things that are outright weird 

Actually yeah, Ade does. Not that it matters to anyone but, he likes to think it does. The jury is still out on you 

There seems to be a prevalent behavior of Americans that, to date, is a refusal to be led around like sheep. Although that does seem to be reversing at a rapid rate. Quite the opposite behavior of Europeans who seemingly not only enjoy being led around like sheep, they insist on it. History tends to support this account, too. 

Your impressions of Americans or Europeans are just that, yours. That doesn't necessarily equate to correct, does it?

[pitbull]

Actually yeah, Ade does. Not that it matters to anyone but, he likes to think it does. The jury is still out on you 

There seems to be a prevalent behavior of Americans that, to date, is a refusal to be led around like sheep. Although that does seem to be reversing at a rapid rate. Quite the opposite behavior of Europeans who seemingly not only enjoy being led around like sheep, they insist on it. History tends to support this account, too. 

Your impressions of Americans or Europeans are just that, yours. That doesn't necessarily equate to correct, does it?

Its all a matter of perspective, right? My impressions of Americans generally tend to coincide with those that Europeans have (disclaimer: well educated and well-read Europeans), and they are constantly reaffirmed by what happens in the US and the reactions of Americans. I find this quite amuzing actually 
 
P.S.: I do love the US and its people, at least in the region where I live. If I hated the people and the country I would have left. Don't mistake observations about peculiarities of a nation's character for hatred 

[pitbull]

.

[Gator]

 I seriously doubt the older brother was firing at themselves. Why would they investigate the SUV if the ballistic they're trying to match was from the alleged gun they killed the cop for?

The SUV I mentioned is not the carjacked SUV driven by the brothers but the Watertown Police SUV used as a barricade in the firefight.  To be precise I should have said a hundred rounds were fired.

I saw the photo. Was the one you saw happened during daylight hours clearly showing who the people are? Because the one I saw, you couldn't tell how many, much less what gender, those figures are. Maybe it's because someone said those are the brothers and hence, they must be.

You are so correct.   Clearly, the firefight and photos were staged.   The staging had to be done at night to conceal the fact that the shooters were actors.  As part of this staged cover up, the government conspirators carted in the body of the older brother (who had been killed earlier in the day by the government conspirators)  and planted it for the EMT personnel to whisk away to the hospital. 
 
You really must applaud the cleverness of the government in making so many of us (other than the few here at RWD) believe the story.   They even used live ammo and almost killed a policeman to make the story more plausible.
 
I am still confused about the conspirators' reasoning for allowing the younger brother to survive.   I suppose Jack Ruby will somehow get into the hospital and kill Dzhokhar soon before the truth starts to leak out.

Some of you Monday morning armchair investigators need to get a grip.

[BillyB]

    Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.


Ben Franklin

This situation is different from a group of Colonists giving up their liberty to the British Empire in exchange for their protection.


The suspect should be labeled an illegal combatant so we can interrogate him and give him a lie detector test. I don't trust a guy like him and it's possible him and his brother acted alone but they were influenced by others. Who are those others? What other plans do they have brewing?


The suspect isn't going to have his rights stripped away and there's not going to be any new legislation to strip the rights of every American in the name of safety. Obama has the right to label the suspect a combatant to get more information but he decided against it... because it's obvious, there are many Americans who do not want him to do that.


 There is a group in this thread that criticize the government and media reports. Obama IS going to give the suspect the trial you guys want but you guys then announce he will never get a fair trial. You guys can't be pleased after you get what you want. It's safe to say no matter if the suspect is found guilty, you will always have the belief that the suspect is innocent and our government is guilty.

Whoops, there's OJ again. He's everywhere!..the kid must be guilty. 
 

He was found guilty. The plaintiffs attorneys in the civilian trial were much more competent that the government's prosecutors in the criminal trial.

I work a lot with people from all over the world and most europeans match my impression of America and Americans almost to a "T" : the good, the bad, the peculiar, and some things that are outright weird 

How would most RW would view life with an American that believes in conspiracy theories? I've met Americans of various ages that said the President in their time were involved in various conspiracies with the goal of stripping people's rights to form a New World Order. Many of those Presidents before Obama are dead now. How do those Presidents reap the benefits of their evil doings? It's one thing to disagree with the policies of Obama and Bush, it's another to accuse them of a grand scheme. People have and will continue to point fingers at every major incident before and after the Boston bombings as a moment our government is going to do something bad to us. Paranoia will destroya.

[Misha]

And due process?  For a terrorist?  I do believe for americans we need to keep the rights we have.

If rights only apply to some, soon they will apply to none. Inalienable rights should be applied to all, even the most vile humans that could possibly walk the earth, because if you start taking away rights from the outliers, you will go down that slippery slope whereby soon those rights will no longer be inalienable even for the innocent.

[Faux Pas]

If rights only apply to some, soon they will apply to none. Inalienable rights should be applied to all, even the most vile humans that could possibly walk the earth, because if you start taking away rights from the outliers, you will go down that slippery slope whereby soon those rights will no longer be inalienable even for the innocent.

+1

[BillyB]

Inalienable rights should be applied to all,

People should have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. You understand the suspects pursuit of happiness was to take away the rights of others? In this situation he does not have the right to his happiness.



What rights of the suspect's do you think were taken away? The government didn't violate his rights when they didn't read him his Miranda rights. The government wouldn't violate his rights if they justifiably label him as an illegal combatant. Now he will be tried as a criminal. How is his rights taken away there?


Let's switch Ben Franklin's quote around because it makes sense too; "Those who would give up essential safety to purchase a little temporary liberty, deserve neither safety nor liberty." It's a fact, murders and terrorists in America kill more Americans than the American government. Take your focus off the real enemy, you will lose everything.

[Gator]

Instead of discussing a possible government conspiracy or the virtual impossibility that the brothers were not the bombers, I suggest that we talk about a government policy.
 
The US authorities (and news agencies) are continuing their investigation into the background of the Tsarnaev brothers regarding what motivated them, how did they plan it, is anyone else implicated, etc.    I first thought this was just about Chechnya; however, it seems this is possibly a case of Muslim extremism, namely a Jihad.   If so, will the government(Obama) refer to the brothers as Jihadists?   I say Obama will never use such a term.   I point to the Ft. Hood shooting. 

[Muzh]

Not true. I don't believe it even crossed the 60 percent threshold.

Following Powell's February 5, 2003, speech at the UN, most polls, like one conducted by CNN and NBC, showed increased support for the invasion. Only 27% opposed military action, the smallest percentage since the polls began in April 2002. The percentage of Americans supporting an invasion without UN support jumped eight points to 37%. 49% of those polled felt that President Bush had prepared the country for war and its potential risks, a 9 point jump from the previous month.[8] President George W. Bush announced the beginning of Operation Iraqi Freedom on March 19, 2003. A Gallup poll showed the majority of the population erroneously believed Iraq was responsible for the attacks of September 11. In May 2003, a Gallup poll made on behalf of CNN and USA Today concluded that 79% of Americans thought the Iraq War was justified, with or without conclusive evidence of illegal weapons. In March 2013, ten years after the Iraq War begin, a survey from the Media and Public Opinion Research Group found that 51.9% of the American public now feel that the Iraq War was a mistake^[20]. For a timeline, see Popular opinion in the United States on the invasion of Iraq
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_opinion_on_the_Iraq_War

[Misha]

What rights of the suspect's do you think were taken away? The government didn't violate his rights when they didn't read him his Miranda rights. The government wouldn't violate his rights if they justifiably label him as an illegal combatant. Now he will be tried as a criminal. How is his rights taken away there?

Billy, the 39th article of the 1215 Magna Carta: "No freeman shall be taken or imprisoned or disseised or exiled or in any way destroyed, nor will we go upon him nor send upon him, except by the lawful judgment of his peers or by the law of the land." The right to a fair trial judged by one's peers was enshrined in 1215, yet you are seemingly happy to throw out close to a millenium's worth of rights because of one sad incident.

[TomT]

And FWIW, black power is not traceable. Each grain does not have a serial number ya know, and unless you guys are even more paranoid than I think, I'd be surprised if you keep track of all your pressure cookers either. lol

That's true. Thanks to the NRA's effective lobbying, taggants are not used in black powder. In the absence of a signature, photo-identification or surveillance photos, there is no way to positively identify the source. This situation was sought by the manufacturers to avoid torts for their products being used "inappropriately." 


The headline is yet another example of poor reporting but nevermind.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/tamerlan-bought-bombs-article-1.1325504


The New Hampshire purchase above comprised only a small portion of the total amount of black powder that was used. Had the buyer been a bit more careful, that purchase would have gone unreported as well as the others.




Incredibly, the New Hampshire statute fails to implicitly state that a purchaser of fireworks must produce identification.

Fireworks Permissible Title XII Public Safety and Welfare Code/RSAs

CHAPTER 160-CSUMMARY160-C:2 Sale of Permissible Fireworks, Penalty<blockquote>~ Shall have a federal permit to sell display fireworks issued in accordance with Title 18 of the United States Code. ~ Shall have a local permit to sell permissible fireworks. ~ Shall have a state license to sell permissible fireworks. ~ Shall not sell fireworks to anyone that is under 21 years of age, or appears to be under the influence of drugs or alcohol.</blockquote>160-C:3 Requirements for the sale of Permissible Fireworks<blockquote>~ Any person who desires to sell permissible fireworks shall apply to the municipality in which the permissible fireworks are to be sold. Such application shall be in a form prescribed by the commissioner. ~ No permit to sell permissible fireworks shall be issued by a governing body without prior approval of the police chief, fire chief, and building inspector. ~ Any municipality may charge a fee for the permit or application. ~ Once a municipal permit to sell permissible fireworks is obtained, the person shall apply for a state license to sell permissible fireworks. Such application shall be in a form prescribed by the commissioner. ~ Businesses shall be located in a permanent structure. ~ The structure shall meet all applicable fire safety, building codes, zoning codes, and any local ordinance requirements. ~ No license shall be issued to a person who:<blockquote>1) Has been convicted of an offense involving fireworks or explosives within two (2) years prior to the application. 2) Has been found to have violated any fireworks or explosive laws, rules, or regulations within two (2) years prior to the application. 3) Has been found to be under 21 years of age.</blockquote>~ Prior to the issuance of any license, the department of safety may conduct an inspection of the site, including all buildings, at which permissible fireworks are to be sold or stored. ~ No person under the age of 21 shall be engaged in the business of handling or selling any permissible fireworks; provided, however, that a person less than 21 years of age but at least 18 years of age may handle and sell permissible fireworks at a licensed sales location if he or she is under the direct supervision of a person 21 years of age or older. ~ No licensee shall employ a person to handle or sell fireworks who has been convicted of any offense involving fireworks or explosives within the past two (2) years or who has been found to have violated any fireworks or explosives laws, rules, or regulations within the past two(2) years.</blockquote>160-C:11 Possession and display of Permissible Fireworks<blockquote>~ Any person 21 years of age or older may possess permissible fireworks except in a municipality which has voted to prohibit possession. ~ Any person 21 years of age or older may display permissible fireworks on private property with the written consent of the owner, or in the owners presence, except in a municipality which has voted to prohibit display.</blockquote>

[BillyB]

"No freeman shall be taken or imprisoned or disseised or exiled or in any way destroyed, nor will we go upon him nor send upon him, except by the lawful judgment of his peers or by the law of the land."

You see the word "except" in there? The law of the land was allowed to pursue the suspects.

you are seemingly happy to throw out close to a millenium's worth of rights because of one sad incident.

In what way am I asking our government to throw out the suspects rights or legislate new laws? He will get his fair and legal trial whether he's tried as a combatant or criminal. The injustice to the victims are he's not going to get labeled for what he really is, a terrorist.



In other news I just read the deceased older brother bought fireworks and was getting taxpayer funded welfare while his American wife worked up to 80 hrs a week. His mother visited America in June and was caught shoplifting. Although available after autopsy, his body hasn't been claimed by his wife or parents. I guess taxpayers will have to pay for that too.

[Darth_Budda]

The real difference of ideas is two opposing views...

Those who want a democratic and free Society...

And

Those who are attracted to the idea of Authoritarianism and absolute power of the state...