My Russian Airplane Trip

[Chicagoguy]

I was scheduled to fly Chicago - JFK - Moscow next Sat the 4th. I was only able to get a 50 minute connection time but this has always worked before. But with ATC slowdown my New York flight arrived 2.5 hours late on Monday and 3 hours late on Tuesday. All hell breaks loose when you miss an overseas flight. Meetings at airport, train connections with no refunds and maybe no seats the next day because of 9 May.
But now, according to news, the Senate was listening. Now maybe Obama will start White House tours for children arriving on Spring school trips. Or some money for Yellowstone Park who got hit.
I am venting !

[CanadaMan]

I was scheduled to fly Chicago - JFK - Moscow next Sat the 4th. I was only able to get a 50 minute connection time but this has always worked before. But with ATC slowdown my New York flight arrived 2.5 hours late on Monday and 3 hours late on Tuesday. All hell breaks loose when you miss an overseas flight. Meetings at airport, train connections with no refunds and maybe no seats the next day because of 9 May.

Sorry, you're going to have to break this down a bit so my feeble brain can understand what you're trying to say. 

You start off by talking about a trip that is to take place in the future (May 4).
Then you talk about a 50 minute connection.
Then you talk about a flight that you took on Monday that was 2.5 hrs late!

I honestly don't know if you are coming or going.   

[BillyB]

I was only able to get a 50 minute connection time but this has always worked before.

Less than an hour always worked before for me too until one day I learned the hard way. Now I always try to have at least 2 hrs for a layover on international flights. I don't mind waiting a little extra to make sure I get where I'm going on a long journey and for the men in this endeavor, you don't want your sweety waiting and worried at the final destination.

[Chicagoguy]

Billy B      Yes, you are right. It is just that this was with all the same airline and I would have to use two different ones in the future. With Delta my bags are checked through to Moscow and with other airlines I have to retrieve them and go to another terminal. But certainly doable.
Canada Man     I was worried and began tracking my reservation as soon last Sunday when Air Traffic Controller problems in U.S. started. And connections were really late. But as of Wed. had gotten better. If not I was going to go to Delta counter at O'Hare today and try and get more help. JFK is a little more difficult to get to because it is mostly just International vs. something like United which runs planes to other New York airports every hour on the hour. A shuttle.
They messed up my wife a few years ago and she had to wait 1 week to see her suitcase again.
 

[Hammer2722]

Billy B      Yes, you are right. It is just that this was with all the same airline and I would have to use two different ones in the future. With Delta my bags are checked through to Moscow and with other airlines I have to retrieve them and go to another terminal. But certainly doable.
Canada Man     I was worried and began tracking my reservation as soon last Sunday when Air Traffic Controller problems in U.S. started. And connections were really late. But as of Wed. had gotten better. If not I was going to go to Delta counter at O'Hare today and try and get more help. JFK is a little more difficult to get to because it is mostly just International vs. something like United which runs planes to other New York airports every hour on the hour. A shuttle.
They messed up my wife a few years ago and she had to wait 1 week to see her suitcase again.

If connecting through JFK, always give yourself at least 2 hours for your next flight. JFK is notorious for flights arriving or leaving late. Its one of the worst airports to fly through. Now, I try to schedule my flights through Chicago or direct from Seattle to Europe and the FSU.

[Chicagoguy]

The main reason I use Delta is their schedule. Arrive at 11:00 and leave at 11:30. I hate those very early in the morning departures. And I have had terrible experiences with Lufthansa.
But you are right about time for transfers. 45 minutes is cutting it way too close. But in all honesty I have never had a problem in about 10 flights.

[Gylden]

Rookies!
Just buy one ticket all the way to your destination and you don't have to worry about it.
 

[CanadaMan]

Canada Man     I was worried and began tracking my reservation as soon last Sunday when Air Traffic Controller problems in U.S. started. And connections were really late. But as of Wed. had gotten better. If not I was going to go to Delta counter at O'Hare today and try and get more help.

I don't fly that much and so don't have a lot of experience with reservations.

You mean they can actually tell you a week in advance whether a connecting flight will be on time or late? That's incredible.

[tfcrew]

Rookies!
Just buy one ticket all the way to your destination and you don't have to worry about it.
 

Don't we wish [from this side of the planet].
Oslo to Moscow...good prices there?

I would think that there would be a direct Chicago-Moscow.

[Chicagoguy]

tfcrew
Chicago - Moscow     Wouldn't you think.
In 1992 there was one with Aeroflot.
In about 1998 - 1999 we had American Airlines
For a few years Delta flew one out of Atlanta.
I have used all of these.
But year after year, as far as I am aware, there has only been Delta out of New York.   Miami might be a good place to try one. But if Chicago and Atlanta won't work that might be about it.

[CanadaMan]

tfcrew
Chicago - Moscow     Wouldn't you think.
In 1992 there was one with Aeroflot.
In about 1998 - 1999 we had American Airlines
For a few years Delta flew one out of Atlanta.

You could always fly up to Toronto and take a direct flight to Moscow from there. 

[LAman]

The main reason I use Delta is their schedule. Arrive at 11:00 and leave at 11:30. I hate those very early in the morning departures. And I have had terrible experiences with Lufthansa.
But you are right about time for transfers. 45 minutes is cutting it way too close. But in all honesty I have never had a problem in about 10 flights.

 
Is it rather their pricing???? Delta seems to have the lowest pricing by far. For a few hundred more you can have a ~2 hour connection time at JFK but little earlier ( and from Midway). Careful, your flight out for O'Hare has a 50% on time arrival. I never had a problem with Lufthansa.
Luckily.....I have non-stop service to Moscow!!

[Gylden]

One ticket can have multiple legs, different legs can use different airlines. it just means the airlines have the responsibility to get you to your final destination. If there are delays and you miss a flight, they have to get you on another one, they have to feed you, give you a hotle if the delay is too long etc.
It is not always more expensive-
Chicago-Moscow = $1400
 
 

[mendeleyev]

Aeroflot for years has and continues to fly from Los Angeles (LAX):

- 6 flights weekly (every day except Tuesday).

- SU107 flies from LAX to SVO, departs at 4:25pm local Los Angeles time and arrives in Moscow at 3:20pm local time (next day due to time change).

- Flight SU106 flies from SVO to LAX, departs at 1pm local Moscow time and arrives in Los Angeles at 2:45pm (same day due to time difference).


Aeroflot non-stop from Washington, DC (IAD):

- Now flies twice weekly but in June will fly three times weekly on Mondays, Thursdays and Saturdays.

- Flight #SU104 flies from IAD to SVO, departs at 2:45pm local DC time, arrives 9 hours later at 8:45am local Moscow time.

- Flight #SU105 flies from SVO to IAD, departs at 10:25am local Moscow time, arrives 9 hours later at 12:55pm local DC time.

[mendeleyev]

Delta, Aeroflot, KLM and Air France are SkyTeam code-share partners so you can purchase a ticket from any (Delta is usually about $100 cheaper) but fly on any SkyTeam carrier depending on whose schedule you like best. When you call Delta tell the agent that you want the Aeroflot (or whichever partner) flight schedule but issued on a Delta ticket. They can and will, saving you money and securing your miles. Delta will ticket at the lowest cost and put you on the partner's flight.

Miles are a consideration: Most European carriers such as KLM and Air France limit the number of miles a North American citizen can earn on an international flight. It is usually about a third of the total of miles flown. We enjoy spending some time in Amsterdam on occasion and fly Moscow-Amsterdam-USA trips using KLM planes on KLM schedules but book the tickets via Delta to get the same or better price and most importantly 100% of the miles.

The total round trip from LAX-SVO-LAX is 12,154 miles. At twice in a 12 month period you're about 800 miles from earning "Silver" status (25K miles) with a free bag allowance, free adult beverages if traveling in Economy Comfort, bonus miles and a chance to be upgraded to first class on any flight when available. By comparison, that same flight via KLM, Air France or Aeroflot would have limited you to around 3,000 miles instead of the 12,154 you actually flew. At that rate you'd need to take 8+ flights in a 12 month period to gain any frequent flyer status benefits.

Once you attain the 25k status you'll earn bonus miles (over 3,000 additional bonus miles for LAX-SVO-LAX) which means that before long you'll be at 50K miles (Gold status) and with 2 bags free, free upgrades to Economy Comfort with more leg room and adult beverages and about half the time you'll be bumped into First Class defending on the particular flight. 

If you fly into DME (Domodedovo) in Moscow you'd use a Star Alliance carrier such as Air Canada, US Airways, United, Swiss Air, etc. I fly most of these at some point during a year so to get the most bang for the buck, purchase the ticket from US Airways and under my US Airways frequent flyer number. That accumulates all the miles into in my US Airways account for easier redemption, no matter the carrier. It typically ticks off the United check-in agents who try to argue that they should charge for luggage but once the US Air status card comes out of the wallet they shut up and we can get on with the business of flying.

A lot of guys fly to Turkey and it may be good to know that Turkish Air is a Star Alliance member so you can book a ticket and collect all your miles by going thru your local Star Alliance carrier. Same schedule, Turkish Air plane, same low rate, but you get 100% of the miles.

If you fly to the FSU via LOT Polish or Lufthansa, those are also Star Alliance members so again, book the ticket with your favourite Star Alliance code share partner. You don't have to sacrifice the miles you deserve just to get a cheaper ticket. You can have both.

When flying from North America to Russia, the perception is sometimes that only SkyTeam carriers go to SVO (Sheremetyevo) and only Star Alliance carriers fly into DME (Domodedovo). However, Swiss Air flies to both airports thus making it possible to start on United, US Air, or Air Canada and complete the last leg on Swiss Air into SVO if that is your desired destination...seamless as Swiss is a Star Alliance carrier.

[Gylden]

Mendy,
You are a wealth of information!
 
 

[mendeleyev]

Thank you, Gylden. 

[ML]

One ticket can have multiple legs, different legs can use different airlines. it just means the airlines have the responsibility to get you to your final destination. If there are delays and you miss a flight, they have to get you on another one, they have to feed you, give you a hotel if the delay is too long etc.
It is not always more expensive-
Chicago-Moscow = $1400

Glyden, you need to clarify what 'it' you are referring to.

I think almost everyone buys 'one ticket' to the destination and return.  Yes, I know it is possible to buy the legs separately . . . but let's ignore that situation for the following discussion.

The rules as to responsibility of any one carrier to provide alternative flights, hotel and meal payments, etc., is not as clear cut as you make it sound.  It is very complicated, and the affected person usually does not find out exactly the rules pertaining to them UNTIL a problem arises.

I have found that buying ticket from one source, and getting all boarding passes at one time, and getting your bags automatically sent on to final destination DOES NOT translate to any carrier being responsible for helping in the case of cancelled flights, flight delays that cause missing connecting flight, etc.

[Faux Pas]

Glyden, you need to clarify what 'it' you are referring to.

I think almost everyone buys 'one ticket' to the destination and return.  Yes, I know it is possible to buy the legs separately . . . but let's ignore that situation for the following discussion.

The rules as to responsibility of any one carrier to provide alternative flights, hotel and meal payments, etc., is not as clear cut as you make it sound.  It is very complicated, and the affected person usually does not find out exactly the rules pertaining to them UNTIL a problem arises.

I have found that buying ticket from one source, and getting all boarding passes at one time, and getting your bags automatically sent on to final destination DOES NOT translate to any carrier being responsible for helping in the case of cancelled flights, flight delays that cause missing connecting flight, etc.

Actually, they are. When I travel to Siberia I purchase from two different companies. One to Moscow, then another to Siberia. Trying to buy one ticket from one airline to Siberia gets too costly. To my knowledge no American carrier flies to Siberia although, most will sell a ticket all the way at an way over inflated price because they will assume the liability to get you there.

The cheapo search engines will assemble one a ticket with multiple airlines and thus no one airline is responsible if something happens to cause a missed connection. It will be your loss. When you book with one airline to one destination they have the liability to get you there.

When scheduling and buying a ticket, the cheapest isn't always the way to go. Check closely at the connections and buyer be aware

[mendeleyev]

The cheapo search engines will assemble one a ticket with multiple airlines and thus no one airline is responsible if something happens to cause a missed connection. It will be your loss. When you book with one airline to one destination they have the liability to get you there.

When scheduling and buying a ticket, the cheapest isn't always the way to go. Check closely at the connections and buyer be aware

Yes, and due to a factor called "parity" in airline fares today in theory all tickets are sold at the same price. The only reason that Expedia might be $999, Orbitz at $989 or booking direct at the Airline at $1009 is that the base fare is the same but Expedia and Orbitz, etc, are giving up a few dollars of their commission to get the booking.

When you have two legs/segments the online "discounters" like to take one fare from Airline 1 and the next leg from Airline 2 and consolidate those into one ticket. It works most of the time, and you save an extra $25 to $60 bucks or so, but as FP says, now you have two different airlines. Airline 1 is responsible to get you from point A to point B. Airline 2 is responsible for getting you from point B to C.

If the first flight is late for any reason, that isn't the responsibility of Airline 2. They did their job in holding a seat at point B and if you missed it, it isn't their fault. You'd have to call the online discounter and hope that they can help in a reasonable time period. Most of the time they will do their best to be helpful but if you're stuck in Warsaw trying to reach a call enter in the Midwest USA where the local time is 2am and the only folks answering the phone are message takers, you may find the delay in getting help to be frustrating. Things can really get dicey if your cell runs out of battery and your charger and voltage converter are packed in your checked luggage.

Even if you buy from an online "discount" website, it is always better to try to book same airline all the way through. Then they are responsible for getting you all the way there if something happens along the way.

If you purchase the ticket via one of the Airlines and there is a different airline on segment 2, that just means that they are code-sharing and in that case they will make sure you get to your destination even if there is a delay.

When it comes to meals, hotels, luggage issues, etc, the airline takes care of their customers first and more carefully than "third party" customers (discount websites).

If you find yourself with a flight issue and you are standing in a long line waiting to be re-routed by the gate agents up at the desk, whip out your cell phone and call the airline directly. State your problem, give your frequent flyer number and ask for help. I've had issues resolved on the phone and by the time the line made it up to the desk all I needed at that point was a new boarding pass.