Thoughts on returning to Russia...what women are looking for.

[Vasilisa]

Thoughts after coming back.
I am safely at home now, I’ve spent some time with my family and friends and decided to share some of my thoughts about online search and international dating.
The best relationship in my opinion is where people fully and clearly realize it is going to be a contract between 2 people. As soon as some parts of this contract are broken the contract is over, too. The best thing you can discuss is to describe the paragraphs of the contract and decide if you are ready to live according to this contract without having any drama and changes in it.
When the woman is saying that she can’t find a nice guy in Russia because they all drink, smoke, make bad providers, don’t take care of the kids, all this is wrong. If you really want and wish and work at it you can.
These women on international dating websites are not looking for a soul mates, they are looking for more than that. More than that is a better life, better job, better country, more money, better sex, BETTER anything. There is not a single model, your task is to figure out BETTER WHAT she wants to have. As for the soul mate, they can easily find one in Russia. These women are looking for life which will be better than AVERAGE.
I have read many stories of the RW living in the US and I’ve met a lot of Russian women living in the US, I have never seen a non-materialistic RW living in the US! You don’t need to cross the ocean to get the soul mate. A capitalist country is a strange country to pick up for life without money but true feelings. When you start asking them about their life in the US and Russia they always start telling about the things they could have never afforded in Russia and they can afford in the US now: to compare the cars they have with the cars of their ex classmates in Russia, how many trips abroad they can afford now, etc. They never tell about the BETTER personal qualities of the AM they have. Moreover, they start threads about how hard it is to discuss some things with their AM as they have a different cultural background and are never “on the same level”.
When you look at their pretty pictures and their professions like “lawyers” and “managers” (weird professions to pick when you don’t care about money) where they can meet many men every day doesn’t it make you wonder that these women are looking for something different, more than average. Put these pictures on a Russian dating website and you will get plenty of responds from the Russian men. Not all of them are bad if you look well.

As soon as you can provide your RW with the better life level she is looking for  it is going to be fine unless she finds a better provider, as soon as you start talking about true feelings and love without money it fails.

This explains many "I am getting divorced" threads here.
Opinions are welcomed

[LiveFromUkraine]

It works both ways if we are dealing with contracts.


Money runs out, she leaves.  She gets fat or her looks go, he leaves.

Sounds like a winner.   


I am glad you had a safe trip.  Hopefully you had some fun as well.

[Shadow]

While I agree with your observations in many of the train wrecks we see here, the better deal should be a side dish, not the main course.
This is why I advise to look for a woman who does not want to leave, rather than one who has picked her destination and needs a mule to get her there.

[Faux Pas]

Thoughts after coming back.
I am safely at home now, I’ve spent some time with my family and friends and decided to share some of my thoughts about online search and international dating.
The best relationship in my opinion is where people fully and clearly realize it is going to be a contract between 2 people. As soon as some parts of this contract are broken the contract is over, too. The best thing you can discuss is to describe the paragraphs of the contract and decide if you are ready to live according to this contract without having any drama and changes in it.
When the woman is saying that she can’t find a nice guy in Russia because they all drink, smoke, make bad providers, don’t take care of the kids, all this is wrong. If you really want and wish and work at it you can.
These women on international dating websites are not looking for a soul mates, they are looking for more than that. More than that is a better life, better job, better country, more money, better sex, BETTER anything. There is not a single model, your task is to figure out BETTER WHAT she wants to have. As for the soul mate, they can easily find one in Russia. These women are looking for life which will be better than AVERAGE.
I have read many stories of the RW living in the US and I’ve met a lot of Russian women living in the US, I have never seen a non-materialistic RW living in the US! You don’t need to cross the ocean to get the soul mate. A capitalist country is a strange country to pick up for life without money but true feelings. When you start asking them about their life in the US and Russia they always start telling about the things they could have never afforded in Russia and they can afford in the US now: to compare the cars they have with the cars of their ex classmates in Russia, how many trips abroad they can afford now, etc. They never tell about the BETTER personal qualities of the AM they have. Moreover, they start threads about how hard it is to discuss some things with their AM as they have a different cultural background and are never “on the same level”.
When you look at their pretty pictures and their professions like “lawyers” and “managers” (weird professions to pick when you don’t care about money) where they can meet many men every day doesn’t it make you wonder that these women are looking for something different, more than average. Put these pictures on a Russian dating website and you will get plenty of responds from the Russian men. Not all of them are bad if you look well.

As soon as you can provide your RW with the better life level she is looking for  it is going to be fine unless she finds a better provider, as soon as you start talking about true feelings and love without money it fails.

This explains many "I am getting divorced" threads here.
Opinions are welcomed

In general and in theory I agree with most of what you've written. I would like to ask a personal question directed at you. Several months back, you were considering going back to Russia, I thought for good and to find a Russian man. Understandably you seemed jaded towards AM after your divorce and entry back into the singles scene. Now, you seemed to have softened around the edges somewhat. I don't detect the dogged determination you seemed to have back then. Has something changed? 

[Vasilisa]

I am glad you had a safe trip.  Hopefully you had some fun as well.

Thank you:)

[Vasilisa]

In general and in theory I agree with most of what you've written. I would like to ask a personal question directed at you. Several months back, you were considering going back to Russia, I thought for good and to find a Russian man. Understandably you seemed jaded towards AM after your divorce and entry back into the singles scene. Now, you seemed to have softened around the edges somewhat. I don't detect the dogged determination you seemed to have back then. Has something changed? 

Faux Pas, nothing has, besides moving to a different country and career changes:)
Why?

[Muzh]

Vasilisa
 
I'm glad you had a safe trip. Did you have fun?
 
Anyway, what you have written does not take me by surprise. I have seen a couple ladies who wanted more and out of the former Soyuz and they were lucky, though I haven't heard of them lately.
 
Also, I know of a couple who didn't want to move and were hoping their husbands would consider moving there with them. These were not so lucky. Yet, they are still here and no plans of leaving except one married a local (UA) thug and brought him to the US on a K-1 visa and he is living off her and the alimony she gets from the ex.
 
Personally, I think it doesn't matter much where they come from. I do agree that it should be a contract between two people and they should stick to the contract agreement.
 
Are you staying in the US?

[Vasilisa]

Are you staying in the US?

I am in Russia

[Slingerland]

Vasilia, thank you for the thoughts; they are very good, and important to me, given the situation I am in.  My Marina has a valid B-1 visa, and will be traveling back and forth between the US and Rostov-on-Don for three week stretches.  So she'll have a lot of time to live like I live, and how life for her could be here.  If she wants to live here... with or WITHOUT me... my employer would probably sponsor her on a H1-B.
 
She could easily support herself here.  So in other words, she doesn't need me to be a "mule" to get her here  .
 
The questions will be more of lifestyle... are we compatible together, do we have enough in common to build a life together?  As you say in your post, will she have a BETTER life here with me?  What can I do to make her life here the one she wants?  Am I adaptable enough?  Is she?
 
She and I have time to move forward together, and that's something a lot of the men here didn't get: time to get to know each other before being thrust into their life together.
 
Thank you again for the excellent post!  It's something for me to keep in the back of my mind!

[LiveFromUkraine]

I am in Russia

haha  I think a few of us thought "back home" was back in the US.  Congratulations on moving back to Russia. 


There are good men everywhere and I am sure you will find one where you are the happiest.

[BillyB]

I have never seen a non-materialistic RW living in the US!

Have you seen a non-materialistic person anywhere? Most people want better in their lives, better clothes, better car, better house, better looking spouse, etc... Personally I'd be scared of a women who want worse and be satisfied living in a trailer park. What we need to focus on are the motivations of people when obtaining better. Do they want someone to give it to them or are they willing to work for it? If a RW is a good wife and mother to kids and can make an Western man happy, she's deserving of a good life.

[Vasilisa]

Have you seen a non-materialistic person anywhere? Most people want better in their lives, better clothes, better car, better house, better looking spouse, etc... Personally I'd be scared of a women who want worse and be satisfied living in a trailer park. What we need to focus on are the motivations of people when obtaining better. Do they want someone to give it to them or are they willing to work for it? If a RW is a good wife and mother to kids and can make an Western man happy, she's deserving of a good life.

I agree. But believe it or not there are a lot of: "I lost my money and got sick and she left me" and "I am 60, my girl friend is 25 and when we were on a date she wanted a $600 swim suit and I am afraid she is a pro-dater or a scammer" threads here.

[Muzh]

I am in Russia

Oh.
 
Well, congratulations.
 
Wish you the best.
 
Really hope you find what you are looking for.
 
Are you going to hang around this forum?

[mendeleyev]

Добро пожаловать домой!

I agree. But believe it or not there are a lot of: "I lost my money and got sick and she left me" and "I am 60, my girl friend is 25 and when we were on a date she wanted a $600 swim suit and I am afraid she is a pro-dater or a scammer" threads here.

True, on any forum really, even the RW forums with the complaints simply in reverse.

Vasilisa, I wish you much happiness no matter where you are.

[IAmZon]

These women on international dating websites are not looking for a soul mates, they are looking for more than that. More than that is a better life, better job, better country, more money, better sex, BETTER anything. There is not a single model, your task is to figure out BETTER WHAT she wants to have. As for the soul mate, they can easily find one in Russia. These women are looking for life which will be better than AVERAGE.

Yes!   There is such a thing as a young love.  These RW / AM couplings never fit those conditions

[Gator]

Vasilisa,
 
Good to hear from you.  it is splendid that you did not forget RWD.
 
I have great hopes for this thread, not only for some interesting reading, but in understanding the tradeoffs involved with moving from Russia to the West and in understanding why some marriages work and others do not.
 
I would like to hear more about your feelings rather than about RW in general.  It must have felt good to see your family and friends again.  Does Russia feel any different than it did when you first left for the US years ago?   If there is a difference, is it because how you have changed vs. how Russia has changed?
 
My impression is that your OP is a brief stream of consciousness pondering why you decided years ago to move to the US.     Could this be the case?  Such is good to learn more about yourself and about what makes your happy, truly happy.
 
You write, "I have never seen a non-materialistic RW living in the US!"   A few RW have bared their soul at RWD.  Aloe is one.  Clearly she did not marry a Western man because of materialistic reasons.  She wanted adventure.   And she seems less materialistic than many AW.   Is materialism really the common ingredient?  I believe some materialism may be common, yet I believe it is far more complicated.
 
I really enjoyed your one comment:  "There is not a single model, your task is to figure out BETTER WHAT she wants to have."  At the same time, this is a two-way street because a man is looking for something better when considering a RW for a wife. 
So a RW has wants and an AM has wants.  These "wants" can create the basis for a contract.   Nevertheless, I do not believe the individual "wants" of two people can be defined very well, given the relative brief amount of face time together.  Further, a RW (after moving to America and spending time here and learning of the opportunities and lifestyle here)  may change and develop different "wants."
 
Thus, I do not believe a definition of each other's "wants" is a good basis for a contract between a RW and an AM. I agree that a contract is needed.  However, the contract is a simple one:  it is an unyielding commitment to the relationship.  This commitment prevails no matter what.   It is glue.  IMO, such a commitment requires that the two support each other, respect each other's differences and changes, have aligned goals and similar values, have fun together, and feel love.
 
The big question IMO is how such be examined and answered in a week or two of face time, not speaking the same language and not sharing the same culture?  It is a miracle that there are many successful AM-RW marriages.  Maybe some people are easier to please.  Think about that. 
 

[Belvis]

As for the soul mate, they can easily find one in Russia.

I would not hasten with the word "easily". It can be easily only because of pure luck. And many have unlucky cards. Looking abroad gives one the better chance to meet a soul mate.

[Gator]

This is why I advise to look for a woman who does not want to leave, rather than one who has picked her destination and needs a mule to get her there.

Good advice.  When giving this advice, be sure to mention that a man may not be able to change her mind about staying.  [My situation, and it weakened my resolve such that I made a bad decision.]

[Belvis]

Good advice.  When giving this advice, be sure to mention that a man may not be able to change her mind about staying. 

By other words, a man must be worth of relocation 

[noelscot]

Thoughts after coming back.
I am safely at home now, I’ve spent some time with my family and friends and decided to share some of my thoughts about online search and international dating.
The best relationship in my opinion is where people fully and clearly realize it is going to be a contract between 2 people. As soon as some parts of this contract are broken the contract is over, too. The best thing you can discuss is to describe the paragraphs of the contract and decide if you are ready to live according to this contract without having any drama and changes in it.
When the woman is saying that she can’t find a nice guy in Russia because they all drink, smoke, make bad providers, don’t take care of the kids, all this is wrong. If you really want and wish and work at it you can.
These women on international dating websites are not looking for a soul mates, they are looking for more than that. More than that is a better life, better job, better country, more money, better sex, BETTER anything. There is not a single model, your task is to figure out BETTER WHAT she wants to have. As for the soul mate, they can easily find one in Russia. These women are looking for life which will be better than AVERAGE.
I have read many stories of the RW living in the US and I’ve met a lot of Russian women living in the US, I have never seen a non-materialistic RW living in the US! You don’t need to cross the ocean to get the soul mate. A capitalist country is a strange country to pick up for life without money but true feelings. When you start asking them about their life in the US and Russia they always start telling about the things they could have never afforded in Russia and they can afford in the US now: to compare the cars they have with the cars of their ex classmates in Russia, how many trips abroad they can afford now, etc. They never tell about the BETTER personal qualities of the AM they have. Moreover, they start threads about how hard it is to discuss some things with their AM as they have a different cultural background and are never “on the same level”.
When you look at their pretty pictures and their professions like “lawyers” and “managers” (weird professions to pick when you don’t care about money) where they can meet many men every day doesn’t it make you wonder that these women are looking for something different, more than average. Put these pictures on a Russian dating website and you will get plenty of responds from the Russian men. Not all of them are bad if you look well.

As soon as you can provide your RW with the better life level she is looking for  it is going to be fine unless she finds a better provider, as soon as you start talking about true feelings and love without money it fails.

This explains many "I am getting divorced" threads here.
Opinions are welcomed

This is an example of how the truth WILL NOT set you free. It's much more comfortable to rationalize and engage in self-deceit.  There are a few diamonds in the rough (i.e., good women) in this thing of ours, but mainly Irrawaddy cobras.

[Faux Pas]

Faux Pas, nothing has, besides moving to a different country and career changes:)
Why?

Will then that would explain it. I too, assumed you were back in America after a visit to Russia. You are still there and apparently found a new job? I take it you are going to stay in Russia? The change is evident in your words and have a happier tone. Your posts and musings prior had a short curt, almost cutting edge to them. It was easy to read your bitterness. Divorce and the subsequent American singles scene works for some, sours others. Not right or wrong, just the way it is. Welcome back to RWD 

[Patagonie]

I agree. But believe it or not there are a lot of: "I lost my money and got sick and she left me" and "I am 60, my girl friend is 25 and when we were on a date she wanted a $600 swim suit and I am afraid she is a pro-dater or a scammer" threads here.

Vassilia, good to have some news from you.

All the men who are showing the money get what they desserve, and they are many.

I agree that a lot of FSU in the west are prone to be materialistic. But we know all here that they are some diamonds, you need to find them trough the rough but they exist. Fortunately.
Anyway the best is to have a true love in the relationship BEFORE signing any engagement in the purpose of a relocation (too much people want a relocation of the woman without spending enough time together, enough to know  about how deep their  feelings are).
A lot of men want to WIN the woman and "get and secured  their prize" ASAP.

[CanadaMan]

It's good to see you back at RWD Vasilisa!

Like Gator, I also would be interested in hearing more about your personal story rather than RW in general.

Especially in light of how you painted RW with such a broad brush:

"These women on international dating websites are not looking for a soul mates, they are looking for more than that...
 better life, better job, better country, more money, better sex, BETTER anything."

In a thread discussing MOB'ers (men)
GQBlues was quick to distance himself from the average MOB'er, claiming he is not an average/typical MOB'er.

He went so far as to say ""I believe I'm different than the whole lot of you."

Vasilisa would you consider yourself different from the 'typical MOB' (Mail Order Bride) that you described in your opening post?

That is, did you come to America because you were looking for your soulmate and not looking for BETTER this or that?

[Misha]

There is not a single model, your task is to figure out BETTER WHAT she wants to have.

True, and also true that for some women better is not solely about money.

As for the soul mate, they can easily find one in Russia.

Well, my wife may disagree with you

These women are looking for life which will be better than AVERAGE.

Depends how you define average and better than average. My wife is quite happy with a decent middle-class life in Canada.

I have never seen a non-materialistic RW living in the US!

Depends again how you define materialistic. If by that you define it as meaning a home, food, clothing etc... then yes everybody is materialistic. If you define it as having the most expensive car or the most expensive house or a life of wealth and luxury, then there are some who are not materialistic.

They never tell about the BETTER personal qualities of the AM they have. Moreover, they start threads about how hard it is to discuss some things with their AM as they have a different cultural background and are never “on the same level”.

I would not rely solely on the forums for RW in North America as a good indicator of the experience and thoughts of RW in North America. I know my wife was never really interested in the forums that exist. She has other interests to keep her busy.

As soon as you can provide your RW with the better life level she is looking for  it is going to be fine unless she finds a better provider, as soon as you start talking about true feelings and love without money it fails.

I am soooooo very happy my wife does not fit this mould...

[GQBlues]

Thoughts after coming back....This explains many "I am getting divorced" threads here.
Opinions are welcomed

I'm sure there's more than a just a few who would agree with your assessment whether it's openly admitted or not.

Women are women. There's no more materialistic women from the FSU as there are in the western hemisphere.

I do believe however that the vast majority of divorces with these marriages is simply because there are more men who categorically falls in the typical MOBers mold than not. Money is usually pushed up front during courtship because there's little else to offer. So it isn't surprising that such is the life source for many of these relationships.