USA is NUMBER 1

[IAmZon]

At least it used to be ... comments?

[Shadow]

Lenin said: A Lie repeated often enough becomes truth.

Now let me explain this before it is seen as USA bashing.
When the US was formed out of the Civil war, it was a very mixed society. While there were some educated and rich people, most were going to the New World because their chances where they came from were minimal.

The American Dream was always described as starting with nothing and through hard work becoming rich and respected. This shows that the people chasing it were not the high class in their home country.

From such a mix does often come an inferiority complex. And the best way to beat it is punding your own chest and telling you are the number one in something.
Together with the possibilities of a new country for those who are putting in effort to work hard or steal smart, and the USA was growing on to greatness.

The inferiority complex of being made out of colonies and low-schooled immigrants made the country willing to become a world power, and that mission succeeded especially when its resources could claim victory in WW2.

One can say that right after WW2 the USA was at the peak of its power, with only the Soviet Union snapping at its heels. By the time the Soviet Union collapsed, the downward spiral for the USA also began.

For a country made from immigrants, current laws and demeanor toward immigration sure has changed. For a country famous for having chances for those without anything, the basic needed to build a life has increased a lot. For a country known for freedom, personal freedom has been limited severely.

Does that mean America is no longer a country that is desired ? Surely not. But the citizens should be aware that the current trends will not continue.
Freedom should be kept in high standard, even if that goes at cost of a risk for attacks. Chances should be given to those who need them, both within the country and outside. People should answer once again for their words and deeds, both positive and negative. Take responsibility in good and bad decisions.

Do not forget that the countries that are sometimes blamed for not admiring enough are your roots. From humble origins America has earned its riches and respect of the world, but it should continue to earn and not consider respect as a given.

I have no doubt Ameirca will continue to play an important role in the world. And it could be an example to others in many ways.

But with great power comes..... a high electricity bill.

[Muzh]

That was an excellent observation.

I know, I know, I'm just a pinko America hater.

[ML]

When the US was formed out of the Civil war . . .

Is this what you really meant to say??

[Shadow]

Is this what you really meant to say??

I am aware that the Civil War happened 85 years after the Declaration of Independence, however you should admit that after the end of the Civil War most of the US as we see it on the map today was formed.

[ML]

I am aware that the Civil War happened 85 years after the Declaration of Independence, however you should admit that after the end of the Civil War most of the US as we see it on the map today was formed.

I don't mean to nitpic here,  but you first said 'out of' the civil war, not 'after' which would include everything up to today.  So yes, 'after' civil war, the USA looks as it does today.  The same can be said: 'after' 1492,  the USA looks as it  does today.

After the southern states readmitted, the states maps before and after were unchanged . . . except for West Virginia being carved out of Virginia.

I just thought you made a typo and meant to say Revolutionary War instead of Civil War.

Other than that, I'll not get into it further.

[Muzh]

What a great misdirection.

Come to think about it, we are #1 in that.

[Shadow]

I don't mean to nitpic here,  but you first said 'out of' the civil war, not 'after' which would include everything up to today.  So yes, 'after' civil war, the USA looks as it does today.  The same can be said: 'after' 1492,  the USA looks as it  does today.

After the southern states readmitted, the states maps before and after were unchanged . . . except for West Virginia being carved out of Virginia.

I just thought you made a typo and meant to say Revolutionary War instead of Civil War.

Other than that, I'll not get into it further.

You will not get in to it further as you know very well what I mean.
The thirteen states of 1776 on the map of nother America do not yet look like the current USA. Only in 1845 it started looking, but as the split was about to happen it is better to view the country as mostly formed after the Civil War, even if some parts were to be added later.

[Boethius]

I'm not certain the nostalgia in that clip is particularly accurate.

[IAmZon]

I'm not certain the nostalgia in that clip is particularly accurate.

"IT" used to be better.  Journalism! for example.  I remember when news and news shows elevated thought.   There certainly used to be a greater social value placed on idealism and principals (even though there were obviously, and always many contradictions). 


My senior thesis essentially stated that people in democracies DESERVE what they get.  I think they do ... and that does not bode well for the future.  Alas, I could be mistaken.

[GQBlues]

I'm not sure what being number 1 means to anyone else, but from a personal perspective, and that of wifey, both as naturalized US citizens...the feeling being mutual, the US is #1 with us.

[Boethius]

"IT" used to be better.  Journalism! for example.  I remember when news and news shows elevated thought.   There certainly used to be a greater social value placed on idealism and principals (even though there were obviously, and always many contradictions). 


My senior thesis essentially stated that people in democracies DESERVE what they get.  I think they do ... and that does not bode well for the future.  Alas, I could be mistaken.

So you are a fan of de Tocqueville?
 
If you were a woman, or a minority, the past wasn't so great.
   
I agree that print and television media were better because we weren't on a 24 hour news cycle, and more importantly, corporations didn't control empires in which media was only one income stream.  Dan Rather has spoken at length about this, and how, when he was at CBS, its majority shareholder, National Amusements, Inc. killed the Abu Ghraib story because it feared the report would kill a bill in Congress which would have been favourable to National Amusements.   However, with the internet, readers now have access to more information more quickly.
 
I look at the information my kids have to learn, and it is far more complex, and advanced, than any materials I had to learn at their age.  I will say there is less emphasis on good writing, but their math and sciences are far more challenging. 
 

[Misha]

If you were a woman, or a minority, the past wasn't so great.

Yes, and I would add that much of the American (and Canadian as well) prosperity up until the 20th century was built upon taking land and resources from the peoples that had lived there before, the indigenous peoples, and then redistributing them to newcomers.

[IAmZon]

So you are a fan of de Tocqueville?

Yes!


Oh!  The United States was always full of contradictions (especially in foreign policies.  Look what we did to South America in the first 100 years, and longer), but there were largely accepted social principals that are very commendable.   And even today, Americans "tend" to be more honest and generous than most other countries.   We move with a "oneness" here that is somewhat unusual - especially for a very materialistic democracy that over indulges in every conceivable comfort.


BUT ... social mores of the day that pass for "political correctness" more than confuse me.  Much has changed over the last 20 - 30 years; some for the better, some for the worse.

[Boethius]

Hmm.  When I was in France, the television screens were filled with images of Sarkozy as a news reporter spoke, including in the restaurant in which we were dining.  No sound, though, so I asked our waiter what was going on, and he told me Sarkozy could be going to jail, he was under investigation for accepting bribes, which, in France, was absolutely shocking to the public.   How many Americans would be shocked to learn a U.S. politician was on the take?

http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2012/results/
 
Despite the foregoing, I do think the majority of Americans are honest.  But, the US doesn't corner the market in this regard, it isn't even in the top ten.
 
What social mores that pass for PC confuse you?

[Faux Pas]

So you are a fan of de Tocqueville?
 
If you were a woman, or a minority, the past wasn't so great.
   
I agree that print and television media were better because we weren't on a 24 hour news cycle, and more importantly, corporations didn't control empires in which media was only one income stream.  Dan Rather has spoken at length about this, and how, when he was at CBS, its majority shareholder, National Amusements, Inc. killed the Abu Ghraib story because it feared the report would kill a bill in Congress which would have been favourable to National Amusements.   However, with the internet, readers now have access to more information more quickly.
 
I look at the information my kids have to learn, and it is far more complex, and advanced, than any materials I had to learn at their age.  I will say there is less emphasis on good writing, but their math and sciences are fare more challenging.

Even further crippling is the access to disinformation more quickly. It is getting more and more difficult to get any "unvarnished truth" on anything in the way of current events

[Muzh]

Hmm.  When I was in France, the television screens were filled with images of Sarkozy as a news reporter spoke, including in the restaurant in which we were dining.  No sound, though, so I asked our waiter what was going on, and he told me Sarkozy could be going to jail, he was under investigation for accepting bribes, which, in France, was absolutely shocking to the public.   How many Americans would be shocked to learn a U.S. politician was on the take?

http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2012/results/
 
Despite the foregoing, I do think the majority of Americans are honest.  But, the US doesn't corner the market in this regard, it isn't even in the top ten.
 
Nine so far.
What social mores that pass for PC confuse you?

Hate to do this Boe, but here it goes.
 
http://www.timesunion.com/default/article/Secretly-taped-NY-lawmakers-operatives-are-named-4499438.php

[Darth_Budda]

Yes, and I would add that much of the American (and Canadian as well) prosperity up until the 20th century was built upon taking land and resources from the peoples that had lived there before, the indigenous peoples, and then redistributing them to newcomers.

So true,,,, We have a history of exploitation that capitalism demands... Now that the land has been divided and the natural resources all gobbled up.
They will turn on the people at the bottom... either through workers pay or through technology...

I have a hard time believing that in the US or Canada some magical industry will come along and create the huge number of jobs needed...

I think technology will continue to put people out of work and as less people have good jobs, The economy will only slow more. Striping the political voice of the average American and putting that power in the hands of a minority that has the Cash to fund the political system..

The majority of the politicians are independently millionaires,, Which does do not represent the Average American.

The biggest threat to the American people is the Democratic-Republican Party who holds a chock hold on the American people.

Their is very little difference between the Right wing Republicans and the Right of center Democrats..

I can only hope that the American people see that Bush and Obama are working for the same people...
Wall Street with their legalized gambling racket....
 

[Gator]

For over 200 years America has thrived in part because of its natural resources, economic opportunities of capitalism, political and business leadership, military power, etc.  Nevertheless, these were not the primary reasons for our rise to supremacy in many areas.   
 
I will name two reasons that formed our strong roots, without which I believe we would be a mere shell of what we are today.
 
First and foremost is our government.  Please name another country who fought for liberty in a bloody revolution, and upon winning its  liberty the leaders of the revolution resigned their positions of power.  The leaders formed a government with abundant checks and balances.  And the government leaders would be elected by America's citizens.  Is there another country where the victors resigned their power?   The resulting government has never been streamlined  yet has survived scandals, bad leaders, bad decisions, etc.  and has come together to win wars, overcome natural disasters, etc. 
 
My second reason will draw criticism, yet I believe it important.  It is our Christian beliefs, particularly Christian ethics.  Although America separates church from state, from the 1600s Christian ethics have guided us in how we live together in harmony.   Over the centuries some of the religious fervor went too far yet I see the decline in America as paralleling the decline of the influence of religion.

[SANDRO43]

It is our Christian beliefs, particularly Christian ethics. Although America separates church from state, from the 1600s Christian ethics have guided us in how we live together in harmony.

Although published in 1905, I think that Max Weber's "The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism" is quite enlightening on historically-held American beliefs and attitudes resulting from a mostly Puritan ethics .

[IAmZon]

What social mores that pass for PC confuse you?

HAHAHA - from this last week?  Let me think


1, A woman who stabbed a man 27 times plus, plus ... holds the nation spellbound wondering IF she is guilty (pop voyeurism is not an American invention)


2, A tough guy, law and order type is interviewed after a man chains, rapes and brutalizes three neighborhood girls for over a decade, and the first thing out of his mouth is "I wonder what happened to him in his youth to cause this."


3, Everything that promotes gender neutrality (and our days our filled with this)


"Washington state, the network newscaster said, has outlawed what it calls gender-specific terminology so that, for example, new college students are no longer are freshmen, but “first year students.” Likewise, if you have a worm on your pole, you are not a fisherman, but a “fisher.”


4, Everything that promotes the decrease in the traditional masculine (television shows, commercials)


...  Contradictions.  Look, but don't touch. 


yesterday night I went to a little beach bar.   There was a promotion of some type.  Banners of beautiful women free beer samples, music.   Everything about the environment would suggest drink, drunk, fuck.  BUT!   There were only two women in the entire place that were properly feminine - thin, attractive, friendly, sexy - and they were working as promo-girls!   (I gave one a whirl - literally)   And, then there were the two police cruisers that were outside the bar, making sure people who sampled the beer, did not sample too much.

...  A Society that is overly cushioned and without consequences.

De Tocqueville "Above the people stands and immense power that takes it upon itself to ..."       


=====


On the plus column ... the Governor of SC was forgiven (elected)

[ML]

[quote author=IAmZon link=topic=16031.msg332390#msg332390 d Likewise, if you have a worm on your pole, you are not a fisherman, but a “fisher.”


Here I always thought we needed to put the worm on the hook.

[Shadow]

I think technology will continue to put people out of work and as less people have good jobs, The economy will only slow more. Striping the political voice of the average American and putting that power in the hands of a minority that has the Cash to fund the political system..

The majority of the politicians are independently millionaires,, Which does do not represent the Average American.

Technology costing jobs is about similar to the technology replacing the use of paper. The opposite from expectations seems to happen.

As for the political system, if a businessman in Russia gives a politician a lot of cash because he expects to receive some favours (or already got them) it is called corruption. In the USA it is called funding the campaign and has been legalized...

[Muzh]

So true,,,, We have a history of exploitation that capitalism demands... Now that the land has been divided and the natural resources all gobbled up.
They will turn on the people at the bottom... either through workers pay or through technology...

I have a hard time believing that in the US or Canada some magical industry will come along and create the huge number of jobs needed...

I think technology will continue to put people out of work and as less people have good jobs, The economy will only slow more. Striping the political voice of the average American and putting that power in the hands of a minority that has the Cash to fund the political system..

The majority of the politicians are independently millionaires,, Which does do not represent the Average American.

The biggest threat to the American people is the Democratic-Republican Party who holds a chock hold on the American people.

Their is very little difference between the Right wing Republicans and the Right of center Democrats..

I can only hope that the American people see that Bush and Obama are working for the same people...
Wall Street with their legalized gambling racket....
 

Are you talking about France circa 1790?

[Boethius]

HAHAHA - from this last week?  Let me think


1, A woman who stabbed a man 27 times plus, plus ... holds the nation spellbound wondering IF she is guilty (pop voyeurism is not an American invention)

Is it really the whole nation?  In any event, it has ever been thus.  You can go back to the late 1800's to find similar scandals that captivated the public.

2, A tough guy, law and order type is interviewed after a man chains, rapes and brutalizes three neighborhood girls for over a decade, and the first thing out of his mouth is "I wonder what happened to him in his youth to cause this."

But many serial killers, murderers and rapists are "forged" by their childhood experiences.  It doesn't excuse what they do, of course, but I can't think of too many serial killers who come from happy, stable, two parent families with white picket fences, clean sheets, church on Sundays, attentive fathers, etc.

4, Everything that promotes the decrease in the traditional masculine (television shows, commercials)


...  Contradictions.  Look, but don't touch. 

Really?  Are we viewing the same programmes?  Two and a Half Men regularly has situations with casual sex, even hookers as the "girlfriend experience", as does "How I Met Your Mother", both top 40 programmes.

yesterday night I went to a little beach bar.   There was a promotion of some type.  Banners of beautiful women free beer samples, music.   Everything about the environment would suggest drink, drunk, fuck.  BUT!   There were only two women in the entire place that were properly feminine - thin, attractive, friendly, sexy - and they were working as promo-girls!   (I gave one a whirl - literally)   And, then there were the two police cruisers that were outside the bar, making sure people who sampled the beer, did not sample too much.

...  A Society that is overly cushioned and without consequences.

       
I don't view this as a negative.  Drunk driving is a plague and should be taken seriously.  Stopping it before it happens (those officers were likely paid for by the event) is a positive, not a negative, in my mind.