USA is NUMBER 1

[ML]

GOB has made an excellent point: there are slender, attractive AW all over the US, although I suspect their percentage of the population in Russia, Ukraine, and Belarus is considerably higher than it is for AW.  But the real question is not whether they exist but whether you stand much chance of having a relationship with one.

Before I began my FSUW search I dated a number of these slender, attractive AW.  With the advent of online dating they are covered up with guys who want to date them.  I often talked with some of them about online dating.  A number of them told me how many emails they received from guys.  Eventually I could guess pretty accurately purely by their appearance how many messages they received.  This ranged from 2,000 messages a year for girls who were slender and sort of attractive to 4,000 messages a year for girls who were slender and attractive, to 6,000 for girls who were slender and extremely attractive.

The competition for the slender and attractive 4,000 messages per year AW is intense.  As a consequence it's not enough to be tall, in good shape, fairly attractive, articulate, and earn a solid six figure income in a prestigious profession to find a relationship with one. 

And even if you do manage to have a relationship with one of these women there are still significant drawbacks.  It seems a fair number of them have characteristics that do not lend themselves to a lasting and happy marriage.  I was once engaged to one such woman - tall, slender, and very attractive. Unfortunately I eventually found out that she had one characteristic that was inimical to having a long-term successful marriage.

But in FSU you can find slender, very attractive girls who might well be interested in being married to you.  Given this, why not do a FSUW search.  Almost all the guys here have done so and most are happy with the results.

Larry, good synopsis of the actual situation.
Concise and well written.

[Faux Pas]

You could do that even if you were not using the agencies catering to foreigners seeking FSUW.

I believe that. Few WM however, especially AM can invest that amount of time it would take to do so. Most have jobs and limited time

[Misha]

Most have jobs and limited time

It is always a question of setting priorities. Everybody has time, the question is where to spend it. How many people really work from sunup to sunrise? Few, I wager.

[Larry1]

And all 6000 reactions in America will be from eligible, attractive, serious, marriage minded men?

Of course not, but the percentage of serious guys who are looking for marriage will be much higher, for several reasons.  For one, far more guys will drive across town for a Saturday date than will fly thousands of kilometers to visit a FSUW, spending far more substantial amounts of money and taking a good-sized piece of their vacation time.

[Faux Pas]

It is always a question of setting priorities. Everybody has time, the question is where to spend it. How many people really work from sunup to sunrise? Few, I wager.

What is your point? 

Is it really all about setting priorities? At the expense of what? For those who don't speak the language, are gainfully employed and live outside of the FSU, the time it takes to meet and foster relationships is a big factor

[Misha]

What is your point? 

Is it really all about setting priorities? At the expense of what? For those who don't speak the language, are gainfully employed and live outside of the FSU, the time it takes to meet and foster relationships is a big factor

The point is simple: you implied that men use agencies because they don't have the to do it, and I merely pointed out that not having time in more cases than not is simply an excuse to take the easy route...

[Faux Pas]

The point is simple: you implied that men use agencies because they don't have the to do it, and I merely pointed out that not having time in more cases than not is simply an excuse to take the easy route...

I didn't imply it Misha, I stated it outright. It is what it is. There are such agencies and men purchase the services of these agencies

[Shadow]

Of course not, but the percentage of serious guys who are looking for marriage will be much higher, for several reasons.  For one, far more guys will drive across town for a Saturday date than will fly thousands of kilometers to visit a FSUW, spending far more substantial amounts of money and taking a good-sized piece of their vacation time.

A very large amount of men never make the trip. Apart from that, one can presume their profile is also up on local dating sites, meaning the number of total reactions might be even higher.

Bottom line: your chances are not lower with local women, what is different is your chances to be noticed by them.

[IAmZon]

going to the FSU doesn't suddenly make any WM, younger, more attractive or charming. The "end game" is the very same.

This is true.   The man stays exactly the same.   Just like an once of gold is exactly the same now, as it was in 1999 - however, the valuation is different, because the conditions of the market are different. 

So, for example:  In the area I live in today, Tampa Bay, Florida.  There are more better looking men than there are attractive women. This is an accurate (and painful) reality.   This time last year I was in Kharkov, Ukraine.  While, I may see a handful of attractive women in my normal course of life here every week, in the USA.  In Kharkov, I had to concentrate for my head not to swivel without control.   I could see 15 very attractive women in almost any direction in the city center. Additionally, the woman were generally serious in life, not overly indulged, and intelligent too.  Certainly a different environment.  What is rare here, is abundant there.

20 year old men look the same in both places.   But, 30 and 40 year old men look and act significantly different.  Life is hard In Ukraine, and this story is told forcefully on the faces of the old. especially those with few prospects.

The same type of evaluation could be made between a variety of places.  The details would differ; the conclusions would differ ...but, always the same substance ... an once of gold is always just an once of gold (or copper, depending on the person)

[Faux Pas]

This is true.   The man stays exactly the same.   Just like an once of gold is exactly the same now, as it was in 1999 - however, the valuation is different, because the conditions of the market are different. 

So, for example:  In the area I live in today, Tampa Bay, Florida.  There are more better looking men than there are attractive women. This is an accurate (and painful) reality.   This time last year I was in Kharkov, Ukraine.  While, I may see a handful of attractive women in my normal course of life here every week, in the USA.  In Kharkov, I had to concentrate for my head not to swivel without control.   I could see 15 very attractive women in almost any direction in the city center. Additionally, the woman were generally serious in life, not overly indulged, and intelligent too.  Certainly a different environment.  What is rare here, is abundant there.

20 year old men look the same in both places.   But, 30 and 40 year old men look and act significantly different.  Life is hard In Ukraine, and this story is told forcefully on the faces of the old. especially those with few prospects.

The same type of evaluation could be made between a variety of places.  The details would differ; the conclusions would differ ...but, always the same substance ... an once of gold is always just an once of gold (or copper, depending on the person)

The worth is only slightly better for men in the FSU as opposed to their own country. The valuation or in many cases, the devaluation can come the instant your true self is revealed. Do not think that denial does not exist in the FSU. I only make such a statement as a caution for men who wish to swim the waters of the FSU. You are the same man there as you are here. If you chase the young skirts at home with little success, expect much the same in the FSU.

[LiveFromUkraine]

This is true.   The man stays exactly the same.   Just like an once of gold is exactly the same now, as it was in 1999 - however, the valuation is different, because the conditions of the market are different. 

So, for example:  In the area I live in today, Tampa Bay, Florida.  There are more better looking men than there are attractive women. This is an accurate (and painful) reality.   This time last year I was in Kharkov, Ukraine.  While, I may see a handful of attractive women in my normal course of life here every week, in the USA.  In Kharkov, I had to concentrate for my head not to swivel without control.   I could see 15 very attractive women in almost any direction in the city center. Additionally, the woman were generally serious in life, not overly indulged, and intelligent too.  Certainly a different environment.  What is rare here, is abundant there.

20 year old men look the same in both places.   But, 30 and 40 year old men look and act significantly different.  Life is hard In Ukraine, and this story is told forcefully on the faces of the old. especially those with few prospects.

The same type of evaluation could be made between a variety of places.  The details would differ; the conclusions would differ ...but, always the same substance ... an once of gold is always just an once of gold (or copper, depending on the person)

Surely you don't think men should be held to a higher value simply because they were born men.  The fact that women don't need men to survive should be a good thing.  They are more apt to not settle for men for the wrong reasons.  Why would any man want a woman to stay with him because she has no other options?

[Muzh]

In Kharkov, I had to concentrate for my head not to swivel without control.   I could see 15 very attractive women in almost any direction in the city center. Additionally, the woman were generally serious in life, not overly indulged, and intelligent too. 

And you could just tell by looking at their tight asses and long legs, right?

Certainly a different environment.  What is rare here, is abundant there.

Yo Sherlock. They (Ukies) say the same about here.

20 year old men look the same in both places.   But, 30 and 40 year old men look and act significantly different.  Life is hard In Ukraine, and this story is told forcefully on the faces of the old. especially those with few prospects.

I guess all that cold cream for men is doing the trick, just making them gorgeous, eh?

The same type of evaluation could be made between a variety of places.  The details would differ; the conclusions would differ ...but, always the same substance ... an once of gold is always just an once of gold (or copper, depending on the person)

You can keep an once of gold.

I'll take a few ounces. 

What the hell, I'll take a few kilos. And then watch how many chiquitas come begging for a date. And no need for cold cream or body lotion.

[Muzh]

Surely you don't think men should be held to a higher value simply because they were born men.  The fact that women don't need men to survive should be a good thing.  They are more apt to not settle for men for the wrong reasons.  Why would any man want a woman to stay with him because she has no other options?

Because that would make them both losers.

Good observation, LiveFromU.

[Boethius]

This is true.   The man stays exactly the same.   Just like an once of gold is exactly the same now, as it was in 1999 - however, the valuation is different, because the conditions of the market are different. 

So, for example:  In the area I live in today, Tampa Bay, Florida.  There are more better looking men than there are attractive women. This is an accurate (and painful) reality.   This time last year I was in Kharkov, Ukraine.  While, I may see a handful of attractive women in my normal course of life here every week, in the USA.  In Kharkov, I had to concentrate for my head not to swivel without control.   I could see 15 very attractive women in almost any direction in the city center. Additionally, the woman were generally serious in life, not overly indulged, and intelligent too.  Certainly a different environment.  What is rare here, is abundant there.

20 year old men look the same in both places.   But, 30 and 40 year old men look and act significantly different.  Life is hard In Ukraine, and this story is told forcefully on the faces of the old. especially those with few prospects.

The same type of evaluation could be made between a variety of places.  The details would differ; the conclusions would differ ...but, always the same substance ... an once of gold is always just an once of gold (or copper, depending on the person)

I think UW present themselves better.  They put on more make up.  They press their clothing.  Part of it is cultural.  I noticed the same in Paris.  People care about their appearance when the leave the house.  Ukrainian men present better as well.  How many WM polish their shoes every time they leave the house?
 
I've posted this before but, in general, North American women can't dress the way UW do, because of the harassment they'd endure on the streets.  I know that is the case in my city, and I know it is the same in many parts of the U.S. 
 
I think you see more "concentrations" of people, particularly in the centre of cities, in Ukraine.  North America is a car culture, so you're not going to see a lot of beautiful women, unless you go to a night club, or a college campus, or perhaps the beach.   
 
I also think you are romanticizing UW, which WM tend to do.  Live there half a decade, on a Ukrainian salary, and your perspective would be very different.

[ML]

I think you see more "concentrations" of people, particularly in the centre of cities, in Ukraine.  North America is a car culture, so you're not going to see a lot of beautiful women, unless you go to a night club, or a college campus, or perhaps the beach.   
 
I also think you are romanticizing UW, which WM tend to do.  Live there half a decade, on a Ukrainian salary, and your perspective would be very different.

Well said; particularly since I have said similar a few times. 

The very classy AW drives her BMW from her parking garage or house to the parking garage where she works.  As an up and coming lawyer or banker or some such, she dresses to the nines (but tastefully) and takes care of her body at a sports club.

You won't see them out strolling the streets as you do in FSU.

[GoodOlBoy]

Part of the American population is this way.  There is another part focused on looking good, so good that consumption of silicone and steroids has ramped up.  A visit to watering holes where such specimens abound is eye opening.  And the tats.

I wanted to comment on tat's yesterday and it slipped my mind.
Does anybody at RWD like to see tattoos on the women they date?
I remember being a young boy and going to the circus and seeing the freaky tattoo lady.
 
I know I am probably being a hypocrite here, because I got a couple of tattoos at the beginning of my career in the Corps. Nothing outrageous. Just a couple..... Eagle, Globe and Anchor, Ka-Bar knife and a snake. All done "tastefully"    in Olongapo (Subic Bay, Philippines) back in the early 70's.
 
Marina was a little startled at first when she saw my tat's in Greece. She always associated tattoos with criminals.
 
Anyway, maybe it was just my bad luck but almost every AW I dated before going to the FSU had tattoo(s).

I didn't find it very feminine, do you guys?
 
Has anybody going over to the FSU now, seen many tat's on the ladies?
 
I can't seem to recall seeing any tat's on FSUW when I was there dating.
 
GOB

[Shadow]

It is getting more popular, or you happened to be in the female criminal district. 

[LiveFromUkraine]

I wanted to comment on tat's yesterday and it slipped my mind.
Does anybody at RWD like to see tattoos on the women they date?
I remember being a young boy and going to the circus and seeing the freaky tattoo lady.
 
I know I am probably being a hypocrite here, because I got a couple of tattoos at the beginning of my career in the Corps. Nothing outrageous. Just a couple..... Eagle, Globe and Anchor, Ka-Bar knife and a snake. All done "tastefully"    in Olongapo (Subic Bay, Philippines) back in the early 70's.
 
Marina was a little startled at first when she saw my tat's in Greece. She always associated tattoos with criminals.
 
Anyway, maybe it was just my bad luck but almost every AW I dated before going to the FSU had tattoo(s).

I didn't find it very feminine, do you guys?
 
Has anybody going over to the FSU now, seen many tat's on the ladies?
 
I can't seem to recall seeing any tat's on FSUW when I was there dating.
 
GOB

Lot's of women with tattoos.  It doesn't seem like a tattoo on the arm or ankle is enough, I have seen plenty with their chests overrun with them or entire arms and legs with ink. 


I agree, I don't find it attractive myself.  Then again, I haven't really seen any tats that I did like.

[IAmZon]

I've posted this before but, in general, North American women can't dress the way UW do, because of the harassment they'd endure on the streets.  I know that is the case in my city, and I know it is the same in many parts of the U.S. 


I think you see more "concentrations" of people, particularly in the centre of cities, in Ukraine.  North America is a car culture, so you're not going to see a lot of beautiful women, unless you go to a night club, or a college campus, or perhaps the beach.   

I also think you are romanticizing UW, which WM tend to do.  Live there half a decade, on a Ukrainian salary, and your perspective would be very different.

That does not begin to explain the disparity.  Life long diet, lack of exercise, lack of presentation is the cause. I don't think I am "romanticizing UW" ... I am just speaking one dimensionally - and superficially too!    UW rank high in looks and manner to me.  BUT, I have found them to be suspicious and cool.  I have found them to be ambitious and often compromised.  I have found them to be status seeking and overly materialistic. 

If I lived in Ukraine for half a decade and on an average salary, I would adopt a completely different measurement of joy and satisfaction.  I would assume a completely different and much, much more restrictive set of possibilities.  That is what travel, and work, and adventure seeking is for me now ... a survey of choices that lead to a long term lifestyle.   Not bad, just different

[Faux Pas]

I wanted to comment on tat's yesterday and it slipped my mind.
Does anybody at RWD like to see tattoos on the women they date?
I remember being a young boy and going to the circus and seeing the freaky tattoo lady.
 
I know I am probably being a hypocrite here, because I got a couple of tattoos at the beginning of my career in the Corps. Nothing outrageous. Just a couple..... Eagle, Globe and Anchor, Ka-Bar knife and a snake. All done "tastefully"    in Olongapo (Subic Bay, Philippines) back in the early 70's.
 
Marina was a little startled at first when she saw my tat's in Greece. She always associated tattoos with criminals.
 
Anyway, maybe it was just my bad luck but almost every AW I dated before going to the FSU had tattoo(s).

I didn't find it very feminine, do you guys?
 
Has anybody going over to the FSU now, seen many tat's on the ladies?
 
I can't seem to recall seeing any tat's on FSUW when I was there dating.
 
GOB

Way to go with the *cough* quality babes there GOB   

Tatts are an immediate turn off for me. I'd much rather they smoke, have bad breath and not shave the armpits than to look like a biker. The name tramp stamps was coined for a reason.

[Boethius]

That does not begin to explain the disparity.  Life long diet, lack of exercise, lack of presentation is the cause. I don't think I am "romanticizing UW" ... I am just speaking one dimensionally - and superficially too!    UW rank high in looks and manner to me.  BUT, I have found them to be suspicious and cool.  I have found them to be ambitious and often compromised.  I have found them to be status seeking and overly materialistic. 

If I lived in Ukraine for half a decade and on an average salary, I would adopt a completely different measurement of joy and satisfaction.  I would assume a completely different and much, much more restrictive set of possibilities.  That is what travel, and work, and adventure seeking is for me now ... a survey of choices that lead to a long term lifestyle.   Not bad, just different

Just to clarify, Zon, my post wasn't met as a shot at you, just an observation and a spirit of debate.
 
Lots of North Americans have good diets, and go to gyms to work out.  I think where the disparity tends to hit is in middle age.   
 
I don't think all Ukrainians are status seeking and materialistic.  I think this is very contingent upon who you meet.  As a foreigner, you will only meet certain archetypes, particularly if you are involved in the "MOB" industry. 
 
Ambitious?  Don't all people have dreams?  Doesn't society propel forward because of ambition?
 
I think Ukrainians may be suspicious of foreign men who are there to meet women.  Why shouldn't they be?  If you were married to a Ukrainian, or spoke the language fluently and were not seeking a woman, or met Ukrainians with no ties to the "MOB" industry in any manner whatsoever, an entirely different Ukrainian world would open up for you.
 
 

[IAmZon]

Just to clarify, Zon, my post wasn't met as a shot at you, just an observation and a spirit of debate.

I love it when you call me Zon

[fathertime]

A universal  movement towards gender neutrality is clearly underway. (if you disagree, mark my words, and see me back here in 20 - 20 years.   These things happen slowly).  The consequence?  Women will be more like men, and men will be more like women.   It has already happened to many, it will happen to most.

The Great American Man/Woman: I can say that when I reflect on my personal behavior in the distant past, and very often when I see WM function in business and politics - or family life - I often think under my breath "what a pussy."   
 

It is too bad that you have judged your past behavior so harshly, although you are at least being honest.  You seem to be rather focused on 'masculinity'  now, you had 30 years to behave in a masculine manner,  but it seems a little late for that at least in regards to a personal life after age 50.  An old guy trying to present himself as overly masculine almost always looks foolish, and lacking.  Slightly older people are best when they are mellow, happy, wise.  Nobody wants to be around a rigid/grumpy old man that tries to impose his desires on others.   


Regarding other comments here, I figure the direction of the USA is in the hands of the young, we have had our chance and if the majority want a more gender neutral society, then so be it.  I am happy my daughters can join the military, firefighting, or be police officers.  There was a time this never would have happened.  I don't see any great tragedy here just yet, and things tend to slingshot back anyway, if they go too far in one direction or another. 


I don't know if any country has much of an edge against USA when it comes to good looking ladies.  All a man has to do is spend some time around a California college campus to see what is out there, not the tumbleweed bar in Florida.  The main difference is that these young ladies will barely give even a 35 year old man the time of day.  No problem, they have many viable options closer to their age, why hold it against them?


Tattoos are totally silly in my opinion, hopefully the generations to come won't find it important to express themselves through something as attention seeking as a tattoo. 


Fathertime! 

[GoodOlBoy]

I don't know if any country has much of an edge against USA when it comes to good looking ladies.  All a man has to do is spend some time around a California college campus to see what is out there, not the tumbleweed bar in Florida. 

Never ceases to amaze me how old men leer at teenage schoolgirls in such a light. I could no more imagine some college teenagers as "good looking ladies", than I could imagine looking that way at one of my daughters old schoolmates during one of their sleepovers at our house. 
 
Teenagers are just that teenagers and should be left out of any adult discussion. Now, when you start to compare ADULT women (ladies past 25) that is a another whole deal. In my book there is no comparing your average available 30-40's yo AW with any FSUW of that same age group.
 
BTW, last time I checked, it is against the law to serve alcohol to teenage (18, 19, 20 yo) schoolgirls in any bars or anywhere else for that matter in the Good Ol' USA (unless your some middle aged old man who married one).
 
GOB

[IAmZon]

It is too bad that you have judged your past behavior so harshly, although you are at least being honest.  You seem to be rather focused on 'masculinity'  now, you had 30 years to behave in a masculine manner,  but it seems a little late for that at least in regards to a personal life after age 50.  An old guy trying to present himself as overly masculine almost always looks foolish, and lacking.

Again, you pretend to know me in real life.  You seem to be able to judge that I am focused on masculinity to EXCESS.   A prudent person would be more cautious in filling in details on the unknowable.   AND, you have been calling me a 50 year old for about 4 years LOL  Soon, your assertions will finally be true.   So, in your opinion, I am dead.  Great.