Canada visitor visa dilemma

[Romeo]

Hello all:

So I met a russian girl on an online dating site.  I am Canadian.  We talked almost each day for about 3 months and decided to meet for a week in England in the beginning of this month.  Luckily she was able to get a tourist visa for herself and we met there and really hit it off.  After the week, we both decided we wanted to continue this, but not by having these short 1 week meetings which don't really let us see if we will get along in everyday real life.  On top of this, due to work and other issues, I simply can't go off to Russia now to see her there.

So we both decided that we might try to get her a visitor visa to Canada.  Now I know most of you will be immediately thinking that this will fail. However, both her and I have researched a lot of forums on obtaining Canadian visas and found that many people have been successful in getting a temporary visit visa to Canada if they can prove they will indeed return back home after the visa period has expired. Even cases with Canadian men inviting their single russian girlfriend have apparently worked!

For her part, she's almost 28 now, she has been at a stable job for the past 3 years earning a little over $1000/month.  She lives on her own in a flat that is owned by her parents that will in a couple of years, become hers. She doesn't have a lot of money in the bank right now, but her mother is able to write a sponsor letter that can help cover her expenses if necessary (same letter she used to get the UK visa - a lot of the documents will be similar for the Canadian visa that she used for UK). For me I'm 42, and have a good stable job in Canada and have the resources to take care of her if she stayed with me.  Given that we both understand that there is not a great chance for a single russian girl to get a visitor visa, we are nonetheless trying to decide whether she should come as a tourist or through an invitation letter from me. 

For a tourist visa, as I said she can have her mother sponsor her for the money required to visit as a tourist (Plus any money she has in her bank account) including hotel, food, flight, etc for about a 2-week stay.  She can show that she needs to return to her job by a certain date and that the flat she lives in by herself will eventually become hers, so she has good reason to return (probably this isn't enough I know, but it's all we have).  She can also justify her desire to see Canada for its nature, etc, etc BS, and give a very detailed itinerary for her planned tourism.  She would of course not mention one iota about me.  I have seen that when you for example apply for a 2 week visa, they generally give you a 6 month visa by default.  So the plan here would be for her to get a tourist visa and then stay as long as possible with me to see how it went between us.

However, having looked at several other forums, the overwhelming advice we are getting is that we should be completely honest about our relationship.  Instead of applying for a tourist visa, I have been told I should invite her through a letter saying that we have already met, that she is my girlfriend, showing pictures of us together and our time in England. That I will support all of her needs while she is here, that I will show her my country and that I will ensure her return to russia by the end of the allotted visa time.  In this case she might ask for a 3 week stay (since I will be taking care of her expenses here and she wouldn't need a lot of her own cash except for airfare) and then hopefully she can get the usual 6 month visa so we can stay together longer as a couple. Apparently a lot of people have testified that this approach has worked for them.  But I am still skeptical about it. 

I realize that most will suggest that the best approach is to visit her several times and then marry her in her country and sponsor her to come here, but this is simply not feasible.  So given these two low probability approaches, which is the lesser of two evils?  What approach do you guys suggest? 

[GoodOlBoy]

she's almost 28 now,........ For me I'm 42, 

Oh Romeo.... Oh Romeo.... Where art thou......
 
   to RWD.
 
I love how some posters try to tighten that age gap difference with the word "almost".
Funny how it is always concerning the woman of course, never the man (ex: I'm almost 43)!! 
Look Romeo, she's 27 and you are 42.
There is a 15 year age gap difference between the two of you.
Have you given any serious thought to this aspect of your relationship?
 
GOB

BTW.... There is another thread here where the agency owner wouldn't even let you contact a woman with that age gap.

[ML]

For visa to USA . . . mention of a USA boyfriend will generally be the death knell to a tourist visa application.

Official USA websites even say words to the  effect:  Interviewing officer must assume that all applicants for tourist visa intend to actually immigrate permanently . . . and implicitly . . . that they will overstay their tourist visa.  Applicant MUST OVERCOME this assumption.

Existence of a USA boyfriend will do nothing to overcome the assumption and, in fact, will merely add fuel to this assumption.

Might be different for visa to Canada.

Also your words:  "if they can prove they will indeed return back home after the visa period has expired."

No one can ever prove this.

All you can do is add evidence suggesting there are substantial reasons to return to home country.

Sorry no definite answer here . . . just a little info for comparison purposes.

[Lily]

Why not to talk to an immigration lawyer regarding this plan?

[Boethius]

Canadian authorities don't care if a significant other resides in the country when issuing a tourist visa.  Their primary concern, and the reason visas are denied, is if Canadian officials are concerned the applicant will overstay his/her visa, and not return to his/her home country.
 

[Lily]

What do you believe is a percentage of those who overstay their visa in Canada?
 
My guess is that it should be less than in the U.S.

[onlyFSU4me]

Hi Romeo, welcome


 I got a visitor visa for my wife last year and although that was a different circumstance than yours, I think some of what I did will help you. Like Boethius said CIC doesn't really care if you are in a relationship with her or not, they just want to be assured that she will go back home after her stay. And I think a letter of invitation from you would improve your odds a great deal. Besides, now that Canada changed the spousal visa laws where she won't become a permanent resident for 2 years after she lands here I think they have loosened up about giving visitor visas to spouses and potential spouses, so I think telling them you are in a relationship will help you.


 If I were you I would say that you were in a relationship and that you met her in previously in England. Make sure they see the visa from that trip. Let them know you have been communicating regularly on skype for a few months. Tell them that you are really getting serious about each other and want her to come to Canada to see where you live, to see if she likes it here and to further see if you have a future together.


 Tell them you will be responsible for her while she is here and you will both make sure that she does not overstay her visa because if in the future you do decide to get married you would not want to do anything to jeopardize  her residency application. Make sure you let them know that she will be getting medical insurance so she won't be a burden to Canada's medical care system in case she did have to go to the hospital.


 Thats about all I can think of off the top of my head, I hope it helps with your decision. Good luck!

[Shadow]

On the visa issue I am not qualified to give an answer, but I would like you to think over the following:
If she does not return to the job in time, that wil mean she will probably lose it.
Should things not work out, how will that be of influence?
Also, if the tourist visa runs out, she might have to go back for some time until the marriage visa is arranged. Can you handle that?

[Romeo]

Hi Romeo, welcome


 I got a visitor visa for my wife last year and although that was a different circumstance than yours, I think some of what I did will help you. Like Boethius said CIC doesn't really care if you are in a relationship with her or not, they just want to be assured that she will go back home after her stay. And I think a letter of invitation from you would improve your odds a great deal. Besides, now that Canada changed the spousal visa laws where she won't become a permanent resident for 2 years after she lands here I think they have loosened up about giving visitor visas to spouses and potential spouses, so I think telling them you are in a relationship will help you.


 If I were you I would say that you were in a relationship and that you met her in previously in England. Make sure they see the visa from that trip. Let them know you have been communicating regularly on skype for a few months. Tell them that you are really getting serious about each other and want her to come to Canada to see where you live, to see if she likes it here and to further see if you have a future together.


 Tell them you will be responsible for her while she is here and you will both make sure that she does not overstay her visa because if in the future you do decide to get married you would not want to do anything to jeopardize  her residency application. Make sure you let them know that she will be getting medical insurance so she won't be a burden to Canada's medical care system in case she did have to go to the hospital.


 Thats about all I can think of off the top of my head, I hope it helps with your decision. Good luck!

Thank you very much, this was very useful.  It seems like the main theme here is that the most important thing is to convince them that she will return.

For that she has the following:
1) A stable job that she can get a letter from her employer saying she must return on a specific date
2) She has been living alone in a flat for a few years now, but her name is not specifically on the ownership papers.  I know it would be best if her name was on there, but it will take time to transfer it from her parents.  The flat will become officially hers in a couple of years
3) Her parents and other family are there, but I doubt this helps much

Unfortunately, that's all there is, and I think this will not be enough.  Is there anything else we can put?

[Romeo]

On the visa issue I am not qualified to give an answer, but I would like you to think over the following:
If she does not return to the job in time, that wil mean she will probably lose it.
Should things not work out, how will that be of influence?
Also, if the tourist visa runs out, she might have to go back for some time until the marriage visa is arranged. Can you handle that?

Thanks for the reply. If she does not get the visa she will quit her job anyways and look for something else.  It's too far for her to travel each day and she wants to find something closer to her home.  The only reason she is staying with the job for a few more months is to get the visa.

As for the last part, well once the visitor visa runs out she would probably return home anyways as that will definitely be enough time to decide if we should continue further.  But I've heard people can get married during a visitor visa as well, and she can stay in the country until she becomes sponsored.  In any case, no point in thinking about of any of that until she can actually get a visitor visa.

[Romeo]

Why not to talk to an immigration lawyer regarding this plan?

I wrote a lawyer about this once, and all he suggested was go marry her and sponsor her to come here.  Too early for that.

[Boethius]

What do you believe is a percentage of those who overstay their visa in Canada?
 
My guess is that it should be less than in the U.S.

I have no idea, but I assume the Canadian government has some idea of the numbers.  Then again, perhaps not.

[Misha]

What do you believe is a percentage of those who overstay their visa in Canada?
 
My guess is that it should be less than in the U.S.

The thing is that if you arrive on a temporary resident permit [aka  "tourist" or "visitor" visa] and you marry a legal resident, you can stay in Canada while you application for permanent residence is reviewed, though you won't be able to work or study... Thus, consular officials can be wary if somebody wants to visit a boyfriend or girlfriend if they do not have a pressing reason to return.

[Voyager36]

Canadian authorities don't care if a significant other resides in the country when issuing a tourist visa.  Their primary concern, and the reason visas are denied, is if Canadian officials are concerned the applicant will overstay his/her visa, and not return to his/her home country.

Although Mrs V. was told by the Canadian visa officer who denied her first attempt at a visitor's visa that the fact that a significant other lives in the country was considered a minus as far as judging the merits. (More likely to overstay if there is some fellow there to support you  - so they said)
Although we did eventually get the visa, it was not without hassles and a couple of indignant letters to CIC from our local MP.

I realize that most will suggest that the best approach is to visit her several times and then marry her in her country and sponsor her to come here, but this is simply not feasible.  So given these two low probability approaches, which is the lesser of two evils?  What approach do you guys suggest?

Romeo, anyone here other than an immigration lawyer or visa officer giving advice is something between hearsay and reading tea leaves. A lot depends on which visa officer she gets, and how she will do in the interview.
The UK visa is a BIG plus and it is worth more than some others, like Turkish or something. The fact that she is 27, with a stable job and good income is also better than a 21 yr old student.
You are probably better to try a visitors visa, although if she can also show that she has the funds to provide for herself that's even better. She should just be clear to the officer that she has zero interest in living in Canada without status, she will either return home to be sponsored by you, or else if she doesn't like Canada (or the relationsship) then she returns home to her job.
The reason that I suggest this is that the Canadian visa officer will see the UK visa, and will very likely call up the British consulate for details. Did she mention to the British interview that she was going to meet you there? They will likely ask her if she is going to meet someone in Canada, and what she was doing in Britain. If they suspect that she is not being truthful they will deny the visa.
If you can, check with an immigration lawyer to see what is the best approach.
If the visa is denied, you might bring her to Mexico or Bahamas or something as an alternative.
 
That being said, there is a reason that most folks suggest to meet her over there in her home country, which may become cleat to you later.

[Boethius]

I have a client who managed two visitor visas for women, one from Ukraine (didn't work out) and one from China (he married her).  Both countries, I understand, have very high rejection rates for Canadian tourist visas, and neither woman had traveled abroad before coming to Canada.  He did hire an immigration lawyer for the first woman's visa application.

[Patagonie]

I don't know why US (especially) or UK guys want to bring a lawyer in the process. If you do this in my country, this is a way to screw up your chances, IMHO.
 

[Patagonie]

Thanks for the reply. If she does not get the visa she will quit her job anyways and look for something else.  It's too far for her to travel each day and she wants to find something closer to her home.  The only reason she is staying with the job for a few more months is to get the visa.

As for the last part, well once the visitor visa runs out she would probably return home anyways as that will definitely be enough time to decide if we should continue further.  But I've heard people can get married during a visitor visa as well, and she can stay in the country until she becomes sponsored.  In any case, no point in thinking about of any of that until she can actually get a visitor visa.

In my country, this is the right way to have many problems, and risk at the end an expulsion.

[Patagonie]

Hello all:

So I met a russian girl on an online dating site.  I am Canadian.  We talked almost each day for about 3 months and decided to meet for a week in England in the beginning of this month.  Luckily she was able to get a tourist visa for herself and we met there and really hit it off.  After the week, we both decided we wanted to continue this, but not by having these short 1 week meetings which don't really let us see if we will get along in everyday real life.  On top of this, due to work and other issues, I simply can't go off to Russia now to see her there.

So we both decided that we might try to get her a visitor visa to Canada.  Now I know most of you will be immediately thinking that this will fail. However, both her and I have researched a lot of forums on obtaining Canadian visas and found that many people have been successful in getting a temporary visit visa to Canada if they can prove they will indeed return back home after the visa period has expired. Even cases with Canadian men inviting their single russian girlfriend have apparently worked!

For her part, she's almost 28 now, she has been at a stable job for the past 3 years earning a little over $1000/month.  She lives on her own in a flat that is owned by her parents that will in a couple of years, become hers. She doesn't have a lot of money in the bank right now, but her mother is able to write a sponsor letter that can help cover her expenses if necessary (same letter she used to get the UK visa - a lot of the documents will be similar for the Canadian visa that she used for UK). For me I'm 42, and have a good stable job in Canada and have the resources to take care of her if she stayed with me.  Given that we both understand that there is not a great chance for a single russian girl to get a visitor visa, we are nonetheless trying to decide whether she should come as a tourist or through an invitation letter from me. 

For a tourist visa, as I said she can have her mother sponsor her for the money required to visit as a tourist (Plus any money she has in her bank account) including hotel, food, flight, etc for about a 2-week stay.  She can show that she needs to return to her job by a certain date and that the flat she lives in by herself will eventually become hers, so she has good reason to return (probably this isn't enough I know, but it's all we have).  She can also justify her desire to see Canada for its nature, etc, etc BS, and give a very detailed itinerary for her planned tourism.  She would of course not mention one iota about me.  I have seen that when you for example apply for a 2 week visa, they generally give you a 6 month visa by default.  So the plan here would be for her to get a tourist visa and then stay as long as possible with me to see how it went between us.

However, having looked at several other forums, the overwhelming advice we are getting is that we should be completely honest about our relationship.  Instead of applying for a tourist visa, I have been told I should invite her through a letter saying that we have already met, that she is my girlfriend, showing pictures of us together and our time in England. That I will support all of her needs while she is here, that I will show her my country and that I will ensure her return to russia by the end of the allotted visa time.  In this case she might ask for a 3 week stay (since I will be taking care of her expenses here and she wouldn't need a lot of her own cash except for airfare) and then hopefully she can get the usual 6 month visa so we can stay together longer as a couple. Apparently a lot of people have testified that this approach has worked for them.  But I am still skeptical about it.  I realize that most will suggest that the best approach is to visit her several times and then marry her in her country and sponsor her to come here, but this is simply not feasible.  So given these two low probability approaches, which is the lesser of two evils?  What approach do you guys suggest?

It is too early to ask IMHO a private invitation, your risk to be denied is too high. You should go in FSU minimum one time, better two.
If you don't have the means to provide for such adventure, if you don't have time to travel or to be free for such adventure, better to date in your country and be honest with her and tell that you are not the right guy for her.

[Faux Pas]

I don't know why US (especially) or UK guys want to bring a lawyer in the process. If you do this in my country, this is a way to screw up your chances, IMHO.

In the U.S., too. Here, when you need one, nothing else will do but, when you don't and have one, somebody is getting screwed and it's probably you 

[newjason]

It is too early to ask IMHO a private invitation, your risk to be denied is too high. You should go in FSU minimum one time, better two.
If you don't have the means to provide for such adventure, if you don't have time to travel or to be free for such adventure, better to date in your country and be honest with her and tell that you are not the right guy for her.

+1

There are a plethora of things that you need to consider before proceeding.
The visa can be obtained If you have the means.
But lying about it is not the answer.

In the U.S., too. Here, when you need one, nothing else will do but, when you don't and have one, somebody is getting screwed and it's probably you 

Hahahha  FP
So true.

Romeo,
You have already spoken to a lawyer and he gave you some good advice.
You are a ways off yet from doing just that , so..
Go to her and test compatibility.
Taking shortcuts will blow up in your face more times than  not.

[onus]

If its anything like getting a us visa. You should never exist as far as immigration is concerned. Does Canada have any volunteering projects? ( this my be difficult depending on the time frame that she has ).

So she has been to the UK so that's good ( they like to ask about travel history in interviews ). That will help that's a tough one for Russians to get ( my girlfriend has been wanted to go there for awhile ). Travel history seems to help in the US process and probably the Canadian one. Sponsor is good too.

Case in point my girlfriend is 20, as am i. She has travel to many countries, Sweden, Netherlands, Italy, Belgium, Turkey, Egypt. Her mom sponsored her. She is also volunteering on a farm in Vermont. ( This girl must really love me, though i think she likes the idea anyway. ) 

Work history is good too. Well at least have a job when you do the paperwork and such. I went to Russia with no job but, they didn't know that. 

So she will be here soon, she has a 3 year tourist visa. I'll get to spend time with her before and after the volunteering. About 2 1/2 weeks total.

[Voyager36]

If its anything like getting a us visa. You should never exist as far as immigration is concerned.

Problem is this: If she tells them that she has a Canadian boyfriend (friend, whatever) she may get denied, but can reapply. If she is caught lying to consular officials it may cause problems for years to come, just as in the US

[onus]

No one lied. She isn't here for me anyway. Majority of her time will be spent doing volunteer work far away from my home.

[Voyager36]

No one lied. She isn't here for me anyway. Majority of her time will be spent doing volunteer work far away from my home.

Well it would be a lie if they ask her "Are you going to see someone in Canada" and she denies it.
And I wasn't talking about your situation, but that of Romeo's
 
Your suggestion:

You should never exist as far as immigration is concerned.

seems to suggest this.
Unless she is going to make a hotel reservation for 2 weeks, and is able to tell a convincing story about what she will be doing in Canada and why she's coming, they may decide to deny the application. The visa officers are pretty savvy and can often spot a fishy story.
BTW, when my wife applied for a visitors visa for 4 weeks, that's exactly what she got. (Not for 6 months)
 

[Romeo]

Hi again everyone:

Thanks for all the info.  We applied with a sponsor letter from me as a 'friend'.  It's clear from the pictures we included that it's more than friendship.  In any case I think it didn't matter either way, as she got the visa.   She sent in the application and a few days later was already approved.  The visa is for 6 months but the start date they put for the day she applied.  My question now is, what not to say at the border so that they don't restrict the visa to the exact dates of the plane ticket because she may want to stay longer (not longer than the visa dates but longer than the plane ticket return).