The media in America is lying to us. What is going on in Turkey?

[lordtiberius]

What is really going in Turkey? 

Is this a domestic reaction to tyranny or this apart of a George Soros, Saudi false flag, Muslim Brotherhood power grab?  I just don't want the good people of Turkey to suffer who have for decades since its nationhood have been faithful allies to the American people and to freedom.  I asked two two citizen journalists in Istanbul and a Turkish national with the Expat community in America and they offered the following insights:

Hey bud thank u for askin  the protests were needed because the prime minister was pushing the limit so hard in islamic way, he had limited the alcohol usage in areas as well as he increased the tax on alcohol as well and he wants to push mosque as much as he can on every place which is more than normal. İts not about the park, about freedom of livin

Basically, we all want our freedom back. The PM Erdogan thinks he can do whatever he wants thats why turks riot to the current system and government. But u shouldnt say the media in US is lying to us.. All the turks following the news from either CNN International or BBC. The only media tells the truth is US media.Whatever u see and hear from the news is true. Please watch these 2 videos and you'll understand everything clearly..
http://t.co/JHoNpU0NmH
http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/world/2013/06/03/exp-turkey-unrest-amanpour.cnn.html

If what they are reporting is true then will America do nothing like we did during the 2009 Green Revolution of Iran?  Or will be active participants in the Muslim Brotherhood Revolutions that swept North Africa?  What I don't understand is that if this is a Parliamentary system of government, wouldn't he have a vote of no confidence by now?  Thoughts?

[fathertime]

If this had been Libya or Syria, America would have already been trying to facilitate the fall of the leadership, but Turkey is too important an ally so we will ignore what is going on for the most part, even if the nation's leader is trying to turn them towards an Islamist state.  Our leadership is filled with hypocrites, busybodies, and war mongers that don't care what the general population thinks when it comes to foreign policy.


Fathertime! 

[lordtiberius]

Our leadership is filled with hypocrites, busybodies, and war mongers that don't care what the general population thinks when it comes to foreign policy.


Fathertime!

   agree

dude, where's my country

[cc3]

If this had been Libya or Syria, America would have already been trying to facilitate the fall of the leadership, but Turkey is too important an ally so we will ignore what is going on for the most part, even if the nation's leader is trying to turn them towards an Islamist state.  Our leadership is filled with hypocrites, busybodies, and war mongers that don't care what the general population thinks when it comes to foreign policy.


Fathertime!

American federal "leadership" is anti-secular and anti-human rights (except for islamists' 'rights' to abuse and murder). It is allied with Turkey's leadership and its drive toward further progress on the path to Turkish shariah. That is why the crackdown on secular and humanist protesters is not being supported by team Obama.

Muslim Brotherhood in America: http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/the-muslim-brotherhood-in-america/

[Muzh]

How U.S. Took a Few Pages From Stalin's Book
 
For some 45 years after the end of World War II, the U.S. and the Soviet Union were locked in a deadly embrace of the Cold War. Then, communism lost the war of ideologies, the Soviet empire collapsed, and the two superpowers went in different directions.
 
Nevertheless, it never ceases to amaze me how the two countries still seem to be joined at the hip, with the U.S. at times imitating and at times almost supernaturally mirroring political developments in Russia. During the two terms in office of President George W. Bush, the U.S. began to copy - in form, if not in substance - some aspects of Stalinism, such as searching for enemies and deploying Orwellian newspeak to justify things like torture and preventive wars. Today, Washington's political paralysis at the face of major domestic and international challenges brings to mind the period of stagnation under Soviet leader Leonid Brezhnev.
 
And then there is Chechnya. In the 1990s, Chechen separatism presented a serious existential threat to Russia. It is not clear whether pacification under Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov's iron fist removed this threat, but there is no doubt that the second Chechen War, initiated in August 1999, boosted support for then-Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and helped him solidify his hold on power. As a result, Russia has since been ruled by a murky coterie of siloviki whose connections are rooted in the Soviet intelligence and law enforcement agencies. The siloviki hold peculiar, disturbing views on patriotism, public service, the role of Russia in the world and their own place in Russia.
 
The terror attack on the Boston marathon, carried out by two misguided brothers of Chechen origin, was despicable, but it represented no existential threat to a country where gun violence kills about 8,500 people every year, many of whom are the victims of random attacks. But this first deadly act of terrorism on U.S. soil since 9/11 allowed the U.S. to showcase an amazing security apparatus, which it has built by spending hundreds of billions of borrowed dollars.
 
The Washington Post reported in 2010 that this security establishment consists of 1,271 government agencies and nearly 2,000 private contractors. They sprung into action in Boston, first combing through thousands of recordings from security and surveillance cameras and then shutting down the city as a secret counterterrorist army, which looked like Death Star soldiers from Star Wars, invaded its streets.
 
In the course of the subsequent investigation, we were reminded that the security establishment has hundreds of thousands of Americans and legal residents under some form of surveillance, that lying to a law enforcement official is a felony and that a wife who doesn't report to the authorities on her husband may be charged as his accomplice. An acquaintance of the elder Tsarnaev, who was not suspected of terrorist activities and not armed, was shot and killed by an FBI agent while being interrogated. Most recently, we heard about private citizens' telephone records being passed to the government based on an extremely broad court decision.
 
All this is happening against the backdrop of U.S. President Barack Obama's efforts to protect the secrecy of the national security state by having his administration hound reporters and punish whistle-blowers. If Americans want to see what dangers a highly secretive brotherhood of anti-liberal national security professionals who are imbued with a resentful, chip-on-its-shoulder nationalism presents to a nontransparent state with a cowered populace, they need not to look any further than their former Cold War rival.
 
   Alexei Bayer, a native Muscovite, is a New York-based economist.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/how-us-took-a-few-pages-from-stalins-book/481341.html#ixzz2W2FcHEQy

[mendeleyev]

Apparently the government monitors Twitter accounts too:

http://www.examiner.com/article/secret-service-visits-outspoken-critic-of-obama-because-of-twitter

[mendeleyev]

Putin lectures Obama on national spying, and offers asylum to Snowden.

http://rt.com/news/putin-rt-visit-broadcasting-center-530/

[ML]

Just reading short article in paper today about the wire tapping and email interceptions in USA.

I wonder what the FEDs think about the people on this website?

We are probably on some sort of a list . . . I wonder how this listing is characterized?

Can we be some sort of a threat to national security?

Maybe a threat to national security of FSU countries if we induce ALL the fertile females to leave.

Reminds me of when I was having some really hot conversations with women on phones and Skype.  Sometimes, when we lost connection, I would call right back and comment : 

"I think those guys listening in to our call decided we needed to cool off a bit."

[The Natural]

If this had been Libya or Syria, America would have already been trying to facilitate the fall of the leadership, but Turkey is too important an ally so we will ignore what is going on for the most part, even if the nation's leader is trying to turn them towards an Islamist state.  Our leadership is filled with hypocrites, busybodies, and war mongers that don't care what the general population thinks when it comes to foreign policy.


Fathertime!

Could not possibly agree more. Islam is Equal to hell on Earth!!!!

[ML]

Could not possibly agree more. Islam is Equal to hell on Earth!!!!

Deleted

[Anotherkiwi]

Could not possibly agree more. Islam is Equal to hell on Earth!!!!

Crap!  Just as much damage (if not more so) has been done to the world by the Catholic church over the years, but nobody makes that sort of sweeping statement about them.  And those Muslims who are possibly a bit itchy about the world become just that bit more itchy when they read statements like this (as in - "Well, this dude thinks I'm evil - let's show him that he's right!").
 
Of course there are bad Muslims, but the overwhelming majority are about as radical as Lily, vwrw or me.  My closest work colleague is Muslim, and he would be horrified if he knew that he was ranked up there with the Anti-Christ just because of his religion.  Try taking people as you find them - you may be surprised how well you get on with people of different persuasions.

[SANDRO43]

Crap!  Just as much damage (if not more so) has been done to the world by the Catholic church over the years, but nobody makes that sort of sweeping statement about them.

The basic problem is that Islam hasn't changed an iota since the VIIth century, whereas the C.C. and other Christian churches have made some cautious and reluctant changes over those many centuries .

[Anotherkiwi]

The basic problem is that Islam hasn't changed an iota since the VIIth century, whereas the C.C. and other Christian churches have made some cautious and reluctant changes over those many centuries .

Sandro, even that is a generalisation!  Of course Islam has changed in that period; perhaps just not always in the same way as other religions.
 
And let's leave it at that - we have enough bickering on this site about much less important issues.

[Faux Pas]

Crap!  Just as much damage (if not more so) has been done to the world by the Catholic church over the years, but nobody makes that sort of sweeping statement about them.  And those Muslims who are possibly a bit itchy about the world become just that bit more itchy when they read statements like this (as in - "Well, this dude thinks I'm evil - let's show him that he's right!").
 
Of course there are bad Muslims, but the overwhelming majority are about as radical as Lily, vwrw or me.  My closest work colleague is Muslim, and he would be horrified if he knew that he was ranked up there with the Anti-Christ just because of his religion.  Try taking people as you find them - you may be surprised how well you get on with people of different persuasions.

Sandro, even that is a generalisation!  Of course Islam has changed in that period; perhaps just not always in the same way as other religions.
 
And let's leave it at that - we have enough bickering on this site about much less important issues.

You really need to brush up on and understand Islam before making statements like this. Islam hasn't changed. It won't change. Change is against Islam. It is the religion of Islam to kill or enslave all non-believers. Where do you fit in there? It is not a religion of peace. Just because you happen to know a good Muslim doesn't change the tenets of the faith

[Vasilisa]

Crap!  Just as much damage (if not more so) has been done to the world by the Catholic church over the years, but nobody makes that sort of sweeping statement about them.  And those Muslims who are possibly a bit itchy about the world become just that bit more itchy when they read statements like this (as in - "Well, this dude thinks I'm evil - let's show him that he's right!").
 
Of course there are bad Muslims, but the overwhelming majority are about as radical as Lily, vwrw or me.  My closest work colleague is Muslim, and he would be horrified if he knew that he was ranked up there with the Anti-Christ just because of his religion.  Try taking people as you find them - you may be surprised how well you get on with people of different persuasions.

To understand why some Muslims tend to be more aggressive than others and to understand the roots of the conflicts in many regions while other Muslims live peacefully people should understand the differentce in different branches of Islam. To make it short, there are different branches of Christianity and there are different branches of Islam. Most terrorists you hear about belong to what you can call religious sects based on islamic principles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_schools_and_branches

you can also search "divisions of islam" to know more.

[Vasilisa]

You really need to brush up on and understand Islam before making statements like this. Islam hasn't changed. It won't change. Change is against Islam. It is the religion of Islam to kill or enslave all non-believers. Where do you fit in there? It is not a religion of peace. Just because you happen to know a good Muslim doesn't change the tenets of the faith

The place where I live right now has more than 50% of Muslims. And more than 40% are Christian Orthodox. Living peacefully together congratulating each other on religious events.
Not trying to enslave or kill anybody.
There have been several conflicts but those conflicts were connected with members of radical religious sects very different from the main branch trying to involve more Muslims into their "party". There was a case when the visitors of one mosque realized their mullah is giving some "weird speeches" and they left the mosque and started going to a different one and informed the authorities about that priest.

[Faux Pas]

The place where I live right now has more than 50% of Muslims. And more than 40% are Christian Orthodox. Living peacefully together congratulating each other on religious events.
Not trying to enslave or kill anybody.
There have been several conflicts but those conflicts were connected with members of radical religious sects very different from the main branch trying to involve more Muslims into their "party". There was a case when the visitors of one mosque realized their mullah is giving some "weird speeches" and they left the mosque and started going to a different one and informed the authorities about that priest.

Sure there is. Sunni, Sharia and a host of other tribal driven groups all adhering to the Koran. Vasilisa if you have lived among them and so familiar with them, why no familiarity with the Koran? The radical and jihadists take the Koran very literally. Don't think for a minute your peace loving Muslims will go against them, to do so would be against the Koran, if they are Muslim, they will not. Apparently you are not familiar with the religion either.

They don't want to change non-believers, they don't want you to join them. They want you dead. That is the peaceful religion you speak of.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/06/11/report-syrian-rebels-executed-a-14-year-old-boy-for-insulting-islam/

[Vasilisa]

Sure there is. Sunni, Sharia and a host of other tribal driven groups all adhering to the Koran. Vasilisa if you have lived among them and so familiar with them, why no familiarity with the Koran? The radical and jihadists take the Koran very literally. Don't think for a minute your peace loving Muslims will go against them, to do so would be against the Koran, if they are Muslim, they will not. Apparently you are not familiar with the religion either.

They don't want to change non-believers, they don't want you to join them. They want you dead. That is the peaceful religion you speak of.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/06/11/report-syrian-rebels-executed-a-14-year-old-boy-for-insulting-islam/

Well, apparently I who has lived with them for several years' time and having them as neighbors am not familiar with their religion at all, you are right, 50 percent of my neighbors are bloody murderers who dream about killing me, by the way, do you want to count how many people have been killled, publicly executed and tortured and baptised by force by Christians in the name of Jesus Christ?!
 Do you want to count how many wars have been started by Christians in the name of Christianity?

[Vasilisa]

Btw, here, where I live we have a lot of Muslims with Russian names and Islamic surnames, they look like Tatars but go to Christian churches, most of them are descendants of the Tatars who have been tortured and baptised by Ivan the Terrible in 1552, there are caves under the city where you can see a lot of hooks where the Christian soldiers hang the Muslims and were beating them and torturing until they wish to become Christians, some of them died/were executed.

Ivan the Terrible was a Christian and obviously loved people, hence the name.

I've seen American Methodists who considered themselves to be Christians, had religious quotes everywhere and didn't follow any rules of Christianity, even commited crimes and kept on going to churches.

So I wouldn't be putting labels so easily.

[Muzh]

Why don't we listen to an Islamist talk about the 'problem?'
 

 
starting around 5:50

This should apply to christians too.

[Faux Pas]

Well, apparently I who has lived with them for several years' time and having them as neighbors am not familiar with their religion at all, you are right, 50 percent of my neighbors are bloody murderers who dream about killing me, by the way, do you want to count how many people have been killled, publicly executed and tortured and baptised by force by Christians in the name of Jesus Christ?!
 Do you want to count how many wars have been started by Christians in the name of Christianity?

Nice avoidance of the question Vasalisa. It is blatantly obvious you are not. I am sure they thank you for being such a good apologists though 

[Faux Pas]

Btw, here, where I live we have a lot of Muslims with Russian names and Islamic surnames, they look like Tatars but go to Christian churches, most of them are descendants of the Tatars who have been tortured and baptised by Ivan the Terrible in 1552, there are caves under the city where you can see a lot of hooks where the Christian soldiers hang the Muslims and were beating them and torturing until they wish to become Christians, some of them died/were executed.

Ivan the Terrible was a Christian and obviously loved people, hence the name.

I've seen American Methodists who considered themselves to be Christians, had religious quotes everywhere and didn't follow any rules of Christianity, even commited crimes and kept on going to churches.

So I wouldn't be putting labels so easily.

Now this is exemplary, you attempt to tell how good Islam is by telling how bad Christianity is? Good going 

[Vasilisa]

Now this is exemplary, you attempt to tell how good Islam is by telling how bad Christianity is? Good going 

Yeah, exactly, let's just see something terrible happening in the world, see who did that and put labels on all people of this religion and nationality, that's the quickest and the most intelligent  thing to do, all Russian are commies btw,what are you doing here? Supporting a Communist party?!

 If you are unable to have a conversation but only running around screaming about murders and slavery like crazy and putting labels on  people  and learn nothing our conversation is over.

[Shadow]

The last time I was in Turkey the Western part had a 'Christian Islam'.
Meaning people were behaving like Europeans and Americans in taking liberties when looked at the literal interpretation.
The eastern part (past Ankara) from where most European immigrants came however was more strict. This was noticed when you took a flight to the Eastern part. In the route from Amsterdam to Istanbul you would see the women enter in the plane in traditional Muslim clothes. During the flight they would go to the restroom, appearing in modern dress and with make-up. On the route from Istanbul to the Eastern part (and on the route from IStanbul to Amsterdam) this process would be reversed.
After Ataturk created a government with separation of Church(/Mosque) and State, it became a rule no religious symbols were allowed to wear when working in Government duty. Indeed in Istanbul or Iszmir and even Ankara you would never see a female Government official dressed with a headscarf, let alone more traditional clothing. Also in most of the shops dress was European.

A modern Muslim state seemed very possible there at that time.

[Faux Pas]

Yeah, exactly, let's just see something terrible happening in the world, see who did that and put labels on all people of this religion and nationality, that's the quickest and the most intelligent  thing to do, all Russian are commies btw,what are you doing here? Supporting a Communist party?!

 If you are unable to have a conversation but only running around screaming about murders and slavery like crazy and putting labels on  people  and learn nothing our conversation is over.

Screaming? Really? 

There never was a conversation. just a display of your ignorance. c'est la vie