Kharkov more expensive than Kiev?

[zengeek]

This summer, I am in a fortunate position in which I can work in Kiev and also sometimes work when i go to different cities. Back in April,  I went to Kharkov. This month, I also had a short trip there.  I used Mila's help to meet some ladies.

I wish to write down the trip for me as a record and as a way to reflect on the trip.  I will try to only put down facts in this first post, then in my next post I will write down some of my thoughts. I also have some questions I don't know the answers to and I wish to share / discuss.

In April I was in Kharkov for only two week nights, it was because I would need to go back to Kiev for work.

On the first night, we went to a nice restaurant on Cymska Street.  I met a lady, let's call her Ms N.  Ms N showed up about 10 minutes late if I remember correctly. We had a nice chat and I enjoyed meeting her.  However, she is quite a bit taller than me.  So I did not write to her after we met.

The bill came to about 250UAH + tips (I forgot exact amount), which was reasonable.

On the second night, I met a lady Ms E.  Ms E showed up about 10 minutes late if I remember correctly. We went to a nice restaurant near Svobodi Square. We had some food, drinks and a dessert.  The bill came to about 350UAH + tips (I forgot exact amount)

After meeting Ms E, I felt that she is not a match, and I told Mila.

Since April, I had a good impression of Mila because she has a very simple system:  $50 for introduction to a lady, $15 per hour translation fee, and the two ladies I met back in April seemed genuine and sincere. This month I also visited Kharkov for three nights, and I asked for Mila's help again.  Mila suggested that during this trip, maybe I can meet with Ms N again.  I also asked her to arrange meeting with a Ms K and Ms T, ladies  whose profile she sent to me for review.

On the first night we went to a restaurant called Parma. It is not in the city center. It is near a metro station about 5 stations away from the center.  Supposedly, the lady I wish to meet, Ms K, suggested this place.  The waiter there speaks surprisingly good English. I was hungry so I ordered some bread before the lady arrived. When the lady Ms K arrived, about 20 minutes late, she also ordered more food.  There was salad, lasagna and some nice drinks.  The restaurant had good quality food.

The bill came to about 650 UAH + tips. We had so much food that I took some home and some was left over.

We had a three hour chat and it was a very good first meeting. We decided to have a second meeting the next day in the morning.  Because this place is quite far out of city center, Mila drove me there and back. The car fare was USD30.

On the second day we met at the same restaurant Parma.  I decided to take the metro because I wanted to see more of Kharkov.  It was easy to navigate and quite an interesting experience. Ms K arrived about 10 minutes late. Ms K, Mila and I had a two hour brunch.  Unfortunately this time it did not go so well.  After we talked more about my previous marriage and divorce, Ms K seems to have lost interest, so there is no next date.  Some drinks, salad and interesting food was ordered. The bill came to UAH 350 + tips.

On the night of the second day I met Ms N again, at a place near her work, called Chehov. It is a nice resturant.  Ms N showed up about 20 minutes late.  I told Mila beforehand that this meeting had to be short, because I have a meeting with my San Francisco team at Ukraine time 8pm (ie, SF time 10am).

All 3 of us each ordered a drink.  Ms N ordered a salad.  Ms N asked me if I wanted any food.  I said I already ate and was not hungry.  But she insisted and suggested we could have "a little" sushi.  I said yes.  Some time after, a pretty big plate of sushi showed up - there must have been 20 or 30 pieces.  There was so much sushi that it was not possible for the 3 of us to finish.  I think by the time I left, not even half of the plate was finished.  The order was  placed in Russian and I had no idea how the order was placed.

Because of work, I had to leave about one hour after our meeting started.  So I asked for the check.  When the check comes, it was 800UAH excluding tips. I was shocked.

I looked at the bill and with my limited Russian, my guess the sushi probably added maybe 300-400 UAH to the bill? (I could recognize the Cyrillic for the drinks and the salad, which were the only other items)

Originally I was going to meet with Ms T the next night.  However, after this meeting and after the shock of the bill, I told Mila that I have blown my budget and I am not going to pay for a meal like this again. Therefore, I will cancel the meeting with Ms T.   I still gave Mila the $50 introduction fee because it was a meeting I confirmed earlier and now decide not to attend.  I ended up working all day on the third day, had meetings with my team in San Francisco, and it was quite productive

So in summary, the amount I have spent in Kharkov to meet potential future wives, so far, excluding housing and transportation, is:
Ms N - $50 introduction, $45 translation (3 hours), $129  meal ( 1050UAH )
Ms E - $50 introduction, $30 translation (2 hours), $43 meal ( 350UAH )
Ms K - $50 introduction, $75 translation (5 hours), $30 taxi, $123 meal ( 1000UAH )
Ms T - $50 introduction but I decided not to meet (see above)

Approximately $675 total.

[zengeek]

OK I tried to just write down the facts in my last post.  I am a newbie in looking for an FSU future wife and I wish to learn from this experience.   (I also had some experience in Kiev, but maybe I will write about them later)  Here are some questions that really bug me:

1. A USD100 meal is affordable for me.  However,  my understanding is that the average wage in Kharkov is about 3000 UAH.  When one meal is the cost of one week of salary, it becomes very confusing whether the lady wants to meet me, or just wants to go to a nice restaurant.  Maybe my understanding is incorrect? Maybe the wages in Kharkov is much higher?

2. Given that I don't get to place the order (in Russian) or pick the restaurant, is it at all possible to control the budget?  One thing that is indeed my fault, is that I didn't explicitly discuss with Mila about my budget during this trip.  I simply assumed it will be similar to the last trip in April. (ie, under 400UAH for restaurants)

3. Are my expectations too low? Is this the kind of budget I should be prepared for when I want to meet potential FSU future wife?  I don't mind jacking up my budget if it turns out I am just stingy.  What I do mind is that maybe I am not meeting sincere ladies because the ones who show up just want a nice meal…  But the ladies Mila introduced me to did seem engaged when we talked and genuinely interested??

4. One directly related question is: should I ask to meet Ms N again?  I like her and she said she was open to another meeting.  However, after this experience, I am now quite confused.

5. Mila is a recommended commercial member on this board.  I thought I made the right choice when i asked for her help.  So maybe there is something wrong with my approach?  Perhaps my expectations are way too low?  Perhaps USD100 meals are quite normal?

6. Even when I was in Kiev and made the mistake of being taken to a restaurant on Khreschatyk by a pro-dater (well, I did not realize she is a pro-dater until during the meal, but that's yet a different story), the "damage" was about 400 UAH.  How is Kharkov even more expensive than Kiev? Maybe I have very wrong expectations about Kharkov…
(OK, I am exaggerating, there is still at least Buddha Bar in Kiev, probably more expensive places I don't know of)

I am not going to stop the process but I am indeed taking a pause to think about my approach and whether there is anything I can adjust.  Thanks for reading and thanks for your ideas if any

[zengeek]

I also want to say thank you to Mila for being a friendly and helpful host during my time in Kharkov, and thank you for arranging the meetings.

[Hammer2722]

Did you give Mila any specifics about the type of women you wanted to meet? For example, height/weight, age etc or did you just let her choose for you? Seems like a waste of introduction fees if she is selecting women you normally would not be interested in.

[zengeek]

Hi Hammer2722, I did give her specifics and she sent me profiles of women she thought could be good fit.  I told her who I might want to see out of those profiles.

[steveboy]

The funny thing is this! When ever go to Ukraine to what ever city what ever village, it does not matter if the women's average salary is $10 a week or $200 a week they all seem to know the best places to eat, lol.
I did many trips to kiev a long long time ago when I was stupid and had blurred vision. Once a met a pretty normal girl I heard the same old shit from her all the time about how low the salaries were, something like $300 a month . But guess what!!?? she liked to have breakfast in a cafe that was $75 a time lol. Like a fool I invited the silly women to the UK , hell I couldn't wait to kick her ass out of the country asap!!
Beats me why guys even waste there time and effort in Ukraine, Im sure there are a few nice women in there but guys! Its just not worth the trouble!
One time It was either Ukrainian airways or Aerosvit double charged me for a flight never did get a refund despite many telephone calls and promises, just about sums up the Ukraine I think.

Searching for romance in Ukraine who needs that trouble?

[Patagonie]

800 gvn for few drinks and sushi is too much, you had been right to express that you were unhappy.  30 $ for a course of few kilometers is too much. I have paid 110 Grv for a round trip of probably 30 kilometers which kept busy the driver more than two hours and half.

It is good that she proposes profiles which stiks your requests.

Speaking about your ex wife and your divorce : NO. You tell that you are divorced, it take 2, 84 seconds and that's it.

[zengeek]

Hi Steveboy, you are right, women i met in Kiev also proposes somewhat expensive places to eat. With some success, i usually just propose to meet at a coffee house i know. This was an effective way to keep within budget for the first meeting.

I did meet this one lady in Kiev who consistently just proposes a walk or we would just eat at the local fast food restaurant for under 60uah. She is fluent in English too and we would talk for hours. It's too bad that she is not a match as otherwise she would have been a good lady to date for longer.

Hi Patagonie, yeah i guess i learnt it the hard way. Next time, 2.84 seconds to say i am divorced and move immediately to the next topic...

Thanks for the replies guys.

[Faux Pas]

zengeek
The average salary is of no consequence to what you pay for the price of the meal. Think about the meal, was it about what you'd pay in any other city for what you received? Is it the type of meals you'd take dates to back home? $675 for 4 dates with meals doesn't sound to me as out of the norm and a pretty good average especially since you have transportation, introduction and translation included. Actually seems like a pretty good deal.

You are probably being penny wise and pound foolish. It is an expensive endeavor. If it is the actual money that concerns you, there are other ways to accomplish your budget. You pick the restaurants, don't use an intro or translation service. You could easily cut that cost in half but, is it going to be worth it? You have to decide that.

Maybe increase your budget. What you spent does sound reasonable for what you've received. Expenses are expenses and in these scenarios, they're your expenses. The entire endeavor can be done on the cheap.

[GQBlues]

Amazing, isn't it?

Our brideseekers are counting pennies when the USD exchange is 12 cents/hrivna.

1. Above and foremost - STOP - dating women for the prospect of marriage that doesn't speak English: I know that's a usual recommendation here (marrying women who doesn't speak your language), but for chrissakes then quit complaining about the fees for translator/interpreters, etc...and be so pre-occuiped if these means and peoples are either ripping you off or if they're just scamming your booties - including the women you're actually out on dates. Don't play those silly odds with your future.

2. Why be a dwizzle and go to a restaurant that you have no idea about? There are a multitude of restaurants, both in Ukraine and Russia, that are English-speaking, bride-seeking foreigners friendly. Why on earth will anyone go to a restaurant they know nothing about with a menu they can't freakin' read , with a woman who doesn't speak English , with an interpreter (or service agency) they're freakin' suspicious of - then wonder to themselves if they're getting scammed.

MEN - think this entire experience logically. Do your homework, take charge of your life and future - and execute. This isn't really that hard, guys. It's actually so darn simple it borders on boring.

Restaurants in Kiev: Here's a good site to give you an great idea where you can go. If something is still a bit fuzzy - sign up and ask the members in the site, or the natives who are members of the site. Figure out where your marriage/dating pond is and find out which restaurant are around that pond that serves your convenience.

http://www.virtualtourist.com/travel/Europe/Ukraine/Kyyivska_Oblast/Kiev-707621/Restaurants-Kiev-TG-C-1.html

[Anotherkiwi]

Amazing, isn't it?

Our brideseekers are counting pennies when the USD exchange is 12 cents/hrivna.

...

2. Why be a dwizzle and go to a restaurant that you have no idea about? There are a multitude of restaurants, both in Ukraine and Russia, that are English-speaking, bride-seeking foreigners friendly. Why on earth will anyone go to a restaurant they know nothing about with a menu they can't freakin' read , with a woman who doesn't speak English , with an interpreter (or service agency) they're freakin' suspicious of - then wonder to themselves if they're getting scammed.

Absolutely!  The only note I would add is that you can find incredibly cheap, wonderfully tasty food, in all sorts of places.  Admittedly the restaurant 100 metres from my apartment in St Petersburg didn't have English displayed outside, but they did have an English menu and young staff who spoke a bit of English.  Three-course evening meals for under 100 roubles, plus I would get beautiful croissants from their bakery counter for 8 or 10 roubles each for an evening snack and part of breakfast - divine!

[ML]

GQ said it all very well.

The man must plan and execute; starting with the very beginning of his search.

[Vinnvinny]

Searching for romance in Ukraine who needs that trouble?

So why do you have 6k Ukrainian women on your website?

[ML]

So why do you have 6k Ukrainian women on your website?

Stop with these silly questions regarding logic and consistency.