Would you consider it sad trying to date a women who speaks no English?

[GQBlues]

...
Thats what i love about forums, everything you write will always be taken our of context, ...

You're the one who brought it up to make a point, no? It wasn't 'taken out of context', as a matter of fact, we stayed and expanded within it.

...My comparison with my dog was that we manage to feel affection for our pets even though they dont speak our language, and so its possible to feel affection for someone if you don't understand them...

Sure, and the only words necessary to learn is "sit, stay, roll-over" Apparently that's enough for a good relationship for some...you can also bond without talking by taking them to places like the parks, beaches and have them fetch frisbees or a stick. Those morning and evening walks can also be bonding moments.

...Also the usual blinkered view that everything relates to MOB....

LOL. Ukraine, marriage agencies, etc..what else can it possibly be?

...I dated a girl at university who was french and spoke no english, and an italian girl in my own country, we didnt have an agency or translator and got by just fine,...

'Was' French? Not anymore? But see, not to be MOB blinkered, the point really is.."no agencies/translator" right?

...tbh the mob scene  is a funny old world full of its own strange conventions that people think are sacrosanct that have no real bearing on conventional dating.


If you turn up in italy or spain do you go hunting for the nearest marriage agency then sit with a translator or o you hit on girls in bars?...

Last I looked, Italy isn't exactly in the same economic condition as Ukraine. Spain is broke but hardly in the same realm Ukraine is. So neither literally fit the mold of having the need for marriage agencies as they do in all MOB-centralized nations. That's not a coincidence.

...Also why is this question only ever addressed at women? The woman should speak english. Surely the woman shouldnt consider any man who doesnt speak russian. After all if you go to her country and can't even order a hamburger without a translator what are you doing there....

Learning to speak English was enough for my wife and expecting her to learn my language too is about as ridiculous expecting me to learn hers when we're both living in the US.

Hell, I may not be fluent in Russian, Mandarin  or any other language but I sure as heck can order a burger or two in those places or anywhere in the world. But then, I wasn't puppy hunting or have the need to go abroad to simply get laid - language/speaking not necessary. Unless of course if your message simply boink as many of these Ukrainian women as he can. Then I'll just contend Vegas is likely cheaper.

...The point i was making was lack of english isnt a barrier to a future relationshipif both parties are prepared to put the extra effort in to learn each others language. It will be a slower relationship and take more work but if you have a strong attraction to each other why should you dismiss the chance for the want of a 6 month intensive language course?...

It has nothing to do with persevering to do something for the benefit of some life quest of a happy life. It has to do with receiving letters laced with,

 ""Dear Chip, Again, you made my morning! It is so fantastic to read your letters and feel happiness. Woman is happy when she feels care and attention. Thank you, I feel desired, dear! Moreover, I feel safe and happy with you. You are the one who seems understand me completely. The weather is getting better here..."

...from a woman he's never met and a woman who doesn't speak English. So if you and others lurking in shadows believe somehow he's on the right track, then by golly, egg him even further on.

March on, baby, march on...

[Faux Pas]

Thats what i love about forums, everything you write will always be taken our of context,

Yeah, fun ain't it? 

My comparison with my dog was that we manage to feel affection for our pets even though they dont speak our language, and so its possible to feel affection for someone if you don't understand them

The comparison is all well and good if, your wife is content to be happy with food in her dish, sitting beside your chair, bringing your slippers and affectionate pats now and then.

Also the usual blinkered view that everything relates to MOB.


I dated a girl at university whowas french and spoke no english, and an italian girl in my own country, we didnt have an agency or translator and got by just fine,

Did you marry either of these gals? Irrelevant comparison. Not remotely the same, is it?

tbh the mob scene  is a funny old world full of its own strange conventions that people think are sacrosanct that have no real bearing on conventional dating.


If you turn up in italy or spain do you go hunting for the nearest marriage agency then sit with a translator or o you hit on girls in bars?

Quite the opposite to me. I believe it to be dating just like one would date at home with consideration and remedy to the extra barriers of distance/language/culture/age

Also why is this question only ever addressed at women? The woman should speak english. Surely the woman shouldnt consider any man who doesnt speak russian. After all if you go to her country and can't even order a hamburger without a translator what are you doing there.

The great majority of the time it is the woman relocating to the man's home country. For a situation such as yours are that you mentioned and that dynamic is reversed IMHO, it should be the man to adjust to the language barrier if he is to live in her country

The point i was making was lack of english isnt a barrier to a future relationshipif both parties are prepared to put the extra effort in to learn each others language. It will be a slower relationship and take more work but if you have a strong attraction to each other why should you dismiss the chance for the want of a 6 month intensive language course?

Lack of English isn't a barrier if she moves to France, then it's a lack of French. I don't think anyone is saying it can't be done. It has been done, many, many times. How many of those are still successful marriages is anybody's guess. Chi-guy is one as he states but, I would venture he is the exception and not the rule. Not sharing a language isn't the death knoll of a relationship but, it is a hurdle to one and a grand one at that.

[neo]

I'm not disagreeing with you fp, good communication is essential bedrock for a good marriage.


The point i'm making is this,


You find a match who you find attractive, you have shared interests outlook etc and the only barrier is language.


Do you then choose a match that is inferior, who you are less attracted to and less compatible with, or do you get her and or you on some language classes and take time to develop your communication to the point you are comfortable together.


Its a non point for the UK visa system since the woman has to pass an english language exam.


I'm just making the point if you are patient it can be done it just takes longer, better language skills accelerate a relationship development but if you feel strong chemistry it can be worth the time and effort to wait for her language skills to get up to par.

[ML]

if you feel strong chemistry it can be worth the time and effort to wait for her language skills to get up to par.

Look; if she is great in bed, a great cook, a great housekeeper, and earns good  money . . . it is just as well that you don't know what she  is saying.  Assume that her words are all about how great you are; even as she is bad mouthing you constantly.

[Faux Pas]

I'm not disagreeing with you fp, good communication is essential bedrock for a good marriage.


The point i'm making is this,


You find a match who you find attractive, you have shared interests outlook etc and the only barrier is language.


Do you then choose a match that is inferior, who you are less attracted to and less compatible with, or do you get her and or you on some language classes and take time to develop your communication to the point you are comfortable together.

Absolutely, unequivocally no. That would be as bad as finding the lady you hate the most to marry. But, a question to you, how would one know that the lady without good language skills is superior? My contention is, he never really does and often times doesn't find out until it's too late.

When you have only communicated through translators, human or electronic, how much can be gleaned and how much can you trust the translation you get? Is that enough to plan a long term relationship? For many guys in this endeavor that answer is yes because, they can't see past the fantasy but, the reality often deals them something much different. Many, many of these guys have never dated a slimmer, attractive woman 10-12-15 years younger. Their rationale/logic process is a bit more than skewed and absent in many cases.

Its a non point for the UK visa system since the woman has to pass an english language exam.


I'm just making the point if you are patient it can be done it just takes longer, better language skills accelerate a relationship development but if you feel strong chemistry it can be worth the time and effort to wait for her language skills to get up to par.

Agreed but, all to often many even with the best of intentions are not willing to put that work, patience and effort into the budding relationship. Both men and women. Expecting someone to change and/or improve to be with you/someone is very optimistic and unrealistic. Anyone can say they will but, few ever do. Why put that extra barrier in the relationship when it's not necessary is my only point.

Dude likes her picture. His penis gets hard thinking about her. The fantasy builds and all of the sudden no requirements/standards matter. He doesn't care that they can't communicate as long as he can "get som'a dat". It happens far more than is ever admitted to.

[jone]

Okay,

You want an MOB site review?  Here it is:

I joined MYPARTNERFOREVER.  My first observation is that MOST (like more than 85%) of the women are not active on the site.  By writing a letter to them, you are basically writing to an agency employee who is contacting a lady that has lost interest in this system.  The system cleverly hides the date that the woman joined or how long she has been looking.  Instead it says:  Not active in the last seven days.  Duh!  What it really should say is that she was here for a couple of months and now, if you pay us money, we will attempt to revive her interest in finding a man overseas.  She could have been on the site five years ago.  You would NEVER KNOW!

The next thing I looked at was the success stories.  Very important.  How many people actually got married?  Any PPL or PPC (pay-per-letter, pay-per-chat) site will keep floating women out there as long as they don't stringently object to their profiles being posted.  In most cases, even though they object, the profile still remains.    The number of success stories on here was about four - or five.  Not many.  Some date back five years. 

Yes, you, too can win the Kewpie Doll.  Step right up and give that old credit card a workout.

This is a standard PPL MOB site.  Nothing special about it.  IF and a big IF you can separate the woman from the agency and the website, you have a chance.  Otherwise, you are just exercising your wallet.  Even if she doesn't speak a lick of English, you have absolutely no chance unless you find her independently on Skype or email or in person.

Chip, I take it you are sincere.  There are ways to separate the woman from her agency.  I have done it on ADate, with excellent results.  I will let you know if I find any magic here that allows me to do the same.  But until you have done this, you are simply drinking the Kool Aid.

Imagine the guy who spent $25,000 on letters to women he had detailed conversations with for months.  But when he went to see them, they vanished into thin air.   (True story. On this forum.) "Oh, my grandmother became ill."  "Oh, we are going to Russia to see my friend's new baby."  If excuses were an Olympic sport, the agencies that run these profiles would have the Gold Medal locked up each time.  And, that is who you really are talking to.  You may see a women if you travel to Ukraine - or Russia - or where ever.  But you will be rocked by the Agency cradle.  And they will suck as much money out of you as they can and then you will go home, maybe with a smile on your face,  but without a commitment from a woman.

The only method for truly finding out if a woman is real is to see her in person - AWAY FROM THE AGENCY!

Keep in mind, you have interchanged 'agency' with the owner of MYPARTNERFOREVER.  He just runs the website.  The real agencies are run by people in the various repository cities.  AND THEY ARE ALMOST NEVER HONEST.  ADate claims that they have 1200 such agencies.  A good profile will turn an agency $1200 net profit per month in letter writing.  There are professionals who sit down and do nothing but carry on conversations for women who aren't there.  (Someone was wondering on a forum in the last few days where all the BMWs and Ranger Rovers in the area come from.  I can answer that without pause.)

In Odessa there is a FORUM dedicated to the screwing of Western Men by agencies.  On it, the agencies trade ideas about how to suck more money out of men.  You are lucky.  You are here and have tapped into a resource that may save you thousands.

Are there real women out there who want Western Men?  Of course there are.  But there are tried and true methods for finding them.  And by reading your current thoughts, you haven't touched any of them.  Get your feet on the ground.  See Ukraine..... or Russia..... or Belarus. 

Just for fun, I've attached a picture that Larry asked me to include on the website this morning.  I call it 'Front and Back'.  But if you have to wonder if a woman (or more likely an agency employee) is selling you a fake profile.  She is.  Move on to the next one.  But you have to know when they are real and when they are not.  The only way to do that is having a relationship away from the agency.

Good luck.

PS - Get yourself a VK profile and see who is actively looking in the area that you are interested in.  I'll bet none of them say I want a 45 year old - or however old you are.

[GQBlues]

...Imagine the guy who spent $25,000 on letters to women he had detailed conversations with for months.  But when he went to see them, they vanished into thin air.   (True story. On this forum.) "Oh, my grandmother became ill."  "Oh, we are going to Russia to see my friend's new baby."  If excuses were an Olympic sport, the agencies that run these profiles would have the Gold Medal locked up each time.  And, that is who you really are talking to.  You may see a women if you travel to Ukraine - or Russia - or where ever.  But you will be rocked by the Agency cradle.  And they will suck as much money out of you as they can and then you will go home, maybe with a smile on your face,  but without a commitment from a woman.

The only method for truly finding out if a woman is real is to see her in person - AWAY FROM THE AGENCY!...

Sometimes Most of the time, that doesn't always work either. I can still remember JayPatches' 'Ice Princess' saga, and he spoke fluent Russian and was deservedly coined as an 'expert' in these fora, both in RWG and for a short time here on RWD.


Then there is also a story of a dude from Holland. He befriended a guy from the US that went by the moniker 'Paco' on RWG because apparently Paco's GF was a 'friend' to the gal the Dutchman was smitten with and had been 'corresponding with' for a few months. They eventually planned a trip to go and date those two 'agency' gals.


Long story short, they arrived in Moscow, planned a romantic trip to St Pete for a week, etc...Paco's gal was there and so was the Dutchman's. The Dutchman was so convinced she's the gal for him even if she didn't speak a lick of Dutch/English or German, he brought a 1 ct. diamond ring with him to *give her other evidences of his feelings*.


Except here's the problem. Since the Dutcman's arrival, his gal was progressively bitterly cold to him. She tried to play the role for a day but eventually escalated to not even wanting to be in the same room as him.


The reality was...Paco's GF worked for the agency as a translator. She's the one who's been translating and communicating with the Dutchman. She's the one who phone-translated with the gal when the Dutchman would phone into the agency. The 'gal' never saw his picture and was 'paid' during the time she had to come to the agency during the phone calls. She also apparently got paid for everyday she stuck around during his visit. In the end, she couldn't bear to be in his company despite the money and her local BF was giving her a hard time for being gone for so long. Paco never even knew about all of these until his GF told him everything when they were in St Pete.


So if our experienced newbie strongly believes he's an exception to a rule with his silly 'math', more power to him. There will be shadows in this site that would strongly encourage him to go for it as usual. Go and play the odds. He may well be the exception, of course.

These tricks are so old one would think men would've caught on by now. But then again, men have a hard time separating reality from fantasy even when they step inside a strip joint so why should these be any different.