FSUW Scammers/Cheats and crooks

[steveboy]

Maybe I am wrong on this, but there must be more scammers, cheats, crooks agencies ripping guys off wether it be with fake profiles, selling Russian brides memorabilia, setting up fake video chats, totally fake sites, the list goes on and on in the Russian dating niche.
Maybe it would be a good time to set up some kind of governing body where the few legitimate sites could sign up to.
But then I guess there would only be a handful of sites fit enough to join

[SANDRO43]

We tried to set up something along those lines some 7 years ago (see the Agency Code of Ethics (ACoE) at http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?action=ezportal;sa=page;p=1 and http://certifiedmarriageagencies.org/), but our initiative soon fizzled out for lack of willing agency participants .

[steveboy]

We tried to set up something along those lines some 7 years ago (see the Agency Code of Ethics (ACoE) at http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?action=ezportal;sa=page;p=1 and http://certifiedmarriageagencies.org/), but our initiative soon fizzled out for lack of willing agency participants .

I wonder why

[Faux Pas]

I wonder why

A couple of reasons I would suspect. They all point to money. There were a couple of anti-scam sites over the years and all it took to not be listed on them was to pay the site. Jim's List was one and there were others. Legit companies were getting listed as scam and the AD's and others were getting listed as legit. It's the net, who can you trust?

[Faux Pas]

Probably the most important thing again is money. Would those legitimate sites be willing to pay to be policed? Most you could do is form an auditing body of some sort. Form a collective of legit sites and have an independent body audit those sites for honesty. This at the expense of of the legit sites. Who's willing to do that?

[steveboy]

You cannot trust anyone on the net. The "Anti scam " sites are usually "Scam" sites themselves actually there is no such thing as "anti scam"
Im just wondering if many of the other Niches have this sort of crap to contend with. Im going into the Muslim dating a little later, I cannot find half the stuff associated with the Russian/Ukrainian for any other dating niches.

[steveboy]

They way I see it, and with the Russian niche being a complete rip of generally. There has never been so much stuff written about a subject Im talking about the whole show. If it comes down to money then there is a very easy way to make yourself  wealthy and that is to operate a Russian dating site that is indisputably the most trusted site on the net with zero bad feedback and a completely 100% transparent operation along with a 24/7 customer response. Do that and you can wrap the whole thing up

[Faux Pas]

They way I see it, and with the Russian niche being a complete rip of generally. There has never been so much stuff written about a subject Im talking about the whole show. If it comes down to money then there is a very easy way to make yourself  wealthy and that is to operate a Russian dating site that is indisputably the most trusted site on the net with zero bad feedback and a completely 100% transparent operation along with a 24/7 customer response. Do that and you can wrap the whole thing up

Zero net feedback and a transparent operation would seem to me a pipe dream. The old adage "you can't please all of the people all of the time" is true

[steveboy]

 8)So I know what my mission will be over the next 12 months. But there is still one major problem and that is educating guys, unfortunately whilst guys still have something between their legs telling them the opposite of what they should be doing nothing will change on that front

[Faux Pas]

8)So I know what my mission will be over the next 12 months. But there is still one major problem and that is educating guys, unfortunately whilst guys still have something between their legs telling them the opposite of what they should be doing nothing will change on that front

Maybe you are missing the thrusts of what I was saying. Sure, you can build a site that is all of those wonderful things you mentioned but, if it is only you touting your ethics you are really no better off. All of the agencies and websites claim the same thing. None of them state "Hey, spend money here cause it's a rip off". What you and the (assuming you're honest) other honest folks need is some cred from someone/something that has verified your ethics and honesty.

[SANDRO43]

Probably the most important thing again is money. Would those legitimate sites be willing to pay to be policed? Most you could do is form an auditing body of some sort. Form a collective of legit sites and have an independent body audit those sites for honesty. This at the expense of of the legit sites.

That was the idea we had implemented: candidate agencies had to return a signed copy of the ACoE, disclose company info (owner/s, seat of business, etc.), pay a nominal sum (I think it was $20 or thereabouts), and agree to site inspections, both via Internet and on the ground (we yet had to figure how to raise the money for our field trips, in addition to enlisting the help of volunteer RWD members already on the ground with a different primary objective ).

Approved agencies would then be listed on our Certified Marriage Agencies website (www.certifiedmarriageagencies.org), with different 'Certification Seals' (bronze, silver, gold) signifying our reliability rating.

Who's willing to do that?

3 agencies joined our initiative and obtained their initial Bronze Seal:

- Amour-Club, city of Odesa, Ukraine, owned by Andrey.
- Lviv Brides, city of Lviv, Ukraine, owned by Bill Bourassa.
- Tver Angels, city of Tver, Russia, owned by Richard Wright (our member Rvrwind who opened the Time for Some Humor thread).

[Faux Pas]

That was the idea we had implemented: candidate agencies had to return a signed copy of the ACoE, disclose company info (owner/s, seat of business, etc.), pay a nominal sum (I think it was $20 or thereabouts), and agree to site inspections, both via Internet and on the ground (we yet had to figure how to raise money for our field trips, in addition to enlisting the help of volunteer RWD members already on the ground with a different primary objective ).

Approved agencies would then be listed on our Certified Marriage Agencies website (www.certifiedmarriageagencies.org), with different 'Certification Seals' (bronze, silver, gold) signifying our rating.
IIRC, we had 2-3 agencies wanting to join our initiative, including member Rvrwind who then had one in Tver.

For those that truly wanted to be confirmed as legit, it is a doable concept. Initially it is going to be a costly one but IMHO, not overly expensive for the returns they could generate.

We see guys mill through here all the time looking for who's honest in the MOB. Everyone offers up different conflicting information. Then there are those who mill through and want to state who screwed them over. It often turns out that they were not screwed over at all but, just vindictive because the object of their affection kicked them to the curb after they've paid money.

For those in the MOB it is a valid concern but, none of them seem to want to address it. Certainly, the dishonest ones win as a result. Makes one wonder, if there are in fact any honest ones.

[GQBlues]

Just as CMA was, your thought is a noble one, steveboy....

But like you pointed out, the bottom line is this. I would estimate 8 (maybe 9) out of 10 men either just ignores the caution or simply believe they're an exception to the rule. Chip is a fine recent example of that fact. Of the 2 or 1 that listens, 5% of which actually continue with the search and gets on the plane.

It's an exercise in futility on all fronts. Even that 'lone' source of scammer check site eventually fell prey to the temptation of the almighty dollar.

The very vast majority of these agencies profit from the very dubious blokes to begin with. They get their jollies and enjoy the delusional world these very agencies happily provide for them, whenever or however.

[SANDRO43]

For those that truly wanted to be confirmed as legit, it is a doable concept. Initially it is going to be a costly one but IMHO, not overly expensive for the returns they could generate.

Not much, in our case (about $20 initially). IINM, we had also obtained support from a number of anti-MOB organisations including Antidate .

But it never got off the ground for lack of further candidates. Those who joined were small fish in a MOB ocean full of sharks .

[Voyager36]

selling Russian brides memorabilia,

What the heck is Russian Brides memorabilia?
Is that stuff that Winston Wu is selling off? 
 

A couple of reasons I would suspect. They all point to money. There were a couple of anti-scam sites over the years and all it took to not be listed on them was to pay the site. Jim's List was one and there were others. Legit companies were getting listed as scam and the AD's and others were getting listed as legit. It's the net, who can you trust?

Some folks have bashed Jim when he was still running the site, but on balance I found his reviews to be helpful. He listed Elena's as generally trustworthy and Anastasia & HRB as scam sites, which is what many others have found to be true. Do you have an example of a major site that Jim was really wrong about?

[steveboy]

Just as CMA was, your thought is a noble one, steveboy....

But like you pointed out, the bottom line is this. I would estimate 8 (maybe 9) out of 10 men either just ignores the caution or simply believe they're an exception to the rule. Chip is a fine recent example of that fact. Of the 2 or 1 that listens, 5% of which actually continue with the search and gets on the plane.

It's an exercise in futility on all fronts. Even that 'lone' source of scammer check site eventually fell prey to the temptation of the almighty dollar.

The very vast majority of these agencies profit from the very dubious blokes to begin with. They get their jollies and enjoy the delusional world these very agencies happily provide for them, whenever or however.

I agree with all of this, unfortunately it means there is no point really even trying to establish yourself as "The " site. For example if your site has 200 women online and these women are all aged between 20 - 60 with a mix of beauties and old trolls (real trolls). Then there is a site with 300 absolute stunners, all under 28 and looking like they walked off the catwalk, all "conveniently Online" Who will the idiot sign up to!
And there sure are a lot of idiots when it comes to searching for a FSU women.

[steveboy]

What the heck is Russian Brides memorabilia?
Is that stuff that Winston Wu is selling off? 
 
Some folks have bashed Jim when he was still running the site, but on balance I found his reviews to be helpful. He listed Elena's as generally trustworthy and Anastasia & HRB as scam sites, which is what many others have found to be true. Do you have an example of a major site that Jim was really wrong about?

Russian memorabilia ? Gifts, flowers, teddy bears, how to pull a Russian bride videos/books you name it they sell it! I mean do you see this *** being sold in other dating niches?? I don't think so anyway.

[Faux Pas]

 
Some folks have bashed Jim when he was still running the site, but on balance I found his reviews to be helpful. He listed Elena's as generally trustworthy and Anastasia & HRB as scam sites, which is what many others have found to be true. Do you have an example of a major site that Jim was really wrong about?

No. I quit paying it any mind after my need ceased. My experience with agencies from the onset was negative with Elena's being the one site that I found workable. The others were black holes IME. I did find later, on the forums, a number of agencies Jim's list condemned that were legit and vice-versa. It's been so long and I've slept since then that  I don't even remember which was which. Again, I just no longer cared if I ever did. IIRC when his site finally went down both Anastasia and HRB were confirmed legit sites. There was much speculation that all it took to be confirmed was a check. You can search the archives here and likely find a few owners who stated that Jim's solicited from them payment to be taken off or put on his lists.

[Faux Pas]

I agree with all of this, unfortunately it means there is no point really even trying to establish yourself as "The " site. For example if your site has 200 women online and these women are all aged between 20 - 60 with a mix of beauties and old trolls (real trolls). Then there is a site with 300 absolute stunners, all under 28 and looking like they walked off the catwalk, all "conveniently Online" Who will the idiot sign up to!
And there sure are a lot of idiots when it comes to searching for a FSU women.

And therein lies the crux of the matter. There are IMO, more idiots than legits on both sides of the equasion

[steveboy]

And therein lies the crux of the matter. There are IMO, more idiots than legits on both sides of the equasion

For me Im just using the Russian dating niche as a stepping stone to other things, and I certainly don't plan to make my living from a Russian dating site solely. But I have never in my life met so many crooks over ten years! Im wondering what it will be like when I move onto Christian dating

[Hammer2722]

For me Im just using the Russian dating niche as a stepping stone to other things, and I certainly don't plan to make my living from a Russian dating site solely. But I have never in my life met so many crooks over ten years! Im wondering what it will be like when I move onto Christian dating

Most of the Christian dating sites are just as bad with a plethora of scammers from Ghana and Nigeria posing as both men and women.....

[steveboy]

What about the operators of the Christian sites, Im wondering if they use the same tactics against their competition as they do in the Russian niche, like hacking  sites, planting fakes in other sites and reporting them, planting fakes in other sites to steal members, writing slanderous comments in the net about the competition, linking competitors sites to sex sites to effect rankings , stealing databases ooooohhh the list never ends  
Maybe when members turn up to meet the Christian bride the good reverend will be there to offer translation services for a small fee? I just cannot see anything ever being as bad as the whole Russian/Ukrainian dating niche. Must be the worst on the planet

[ML]

It has been known for thousands of years to promoters, marketeers, advertisers, scammers, etc., and most ordinary people, that SEX SELLS.

I think Christian sex probably sells just as well as any other kind; and even more so with certain folks.

And some of them are pretty enthusiastic about it:

http://christiannymphos.org/

Imagine what a lot of them there Choir gals are doing beneath their robes.

[steveboy]

It has been known for thousands of years to promoters, marketeers, advertisers, scammers, etc., and most ordinary people, that SEX SELLS.

I think Christian sex probably sells just as well as any other kind; and even more so with certain folks.

And some of them are pretty enthusiastic about it:

http://christiannymphos.org/

Imagine what a lot of them there Choir gals are doing beneath their robes.

How come your such an expert on the sex side of things and know of so many links? just asking

[ML]

How come your such an expert on the sex side of things and know of so many links? just asking

I have never claimed to be an expert; but I am highly interested, too much so actually; hope it subsides some time; but (most) women have told me . . . it is not a problem.

And I doubt I know of 'many' links compared to some here who can post a lot more links to practically everything, compared to myself.