Syria, America and Putin's Bluff

[Anotherkiwi]

You should quit before he starts citing Sarah Palin.

Be careful, Tom - there are members here who actually think that Sarah Palin is a sentient, rational human being. 

[lordtiberius]

Barack Obama is the messiah

[Shadow]

 
 
Did a google search for good rebels and John Kerry says the same thing McCain does. They both get access to the same intelligence from our guys on the ground over there and they both feel there are people America can work with so we at least supply them weapons and training.
 

Yep. Al Qaeda are people America can work with.

[BillyB]

John Kerry? As in SOS John Kerry?

Now there is a great reference. Not.

Kerry can't tell the difference between the old KGB prison in Moscow and a WWII Nazi death camp in Poland (I'm not kidding) and one of his first press conferences as SOS listed a former Soviet Republic that has never existed as a country.

 
This isn't about Kerry or McCain, their honesty or intellect.  They are just the messengers. If you were a politician , you should have faith in your intelligence agency more than the belief Assad isn't the kind of guy that would use chemical weapons.
 
Our intelligence tells us there are good people in Syria and we should not abandon them. If there is a chance Assad should fall, we should assist the good rebels so they have a chance in running the country. The alternative of doing nothing are  worse. America's interest there is keeping peace in the Middle East and protecting Israel but if you care about the Christian minority there then you should be on board with locating and assisted the good people of Syria.

[TomT]

Be careful, Tom - there are members here who actually think that Sarah Palin is a sentient, rational human being. 

Compared to a few of the participants in this thread, Sarah Palin IS a sentient, rational human being.

[Shadow]

 
This isn't about Kerry or McCain, their honesty or intellect.  They are just the messengers. If you were a politician , you should have faith in your intelligence agency more than the belief Assad isn't the kind of guy that would use chemical weapons.
 
Our intelligence tells us there are good people in Syria and we should not abandon them. If there is a chance Assad should fall, we should assist the good rebels so they have a chance in running the country. The alternative of doing nothing are  worse. America's interest there is keeping peace in the Middle East and protecting Israel but if you care about the Christian minority there then you should be on board with locating and assisted the good people of Syria.

Who are the good people in Syria?

The rebels who recruit people in other countries to fight the Muslim Jihad against infidels, taking their passport and forcing them to stay and get killed ?

The rebels of Al Qaeda, enough said ?

The rebels who attack and kill the Christian minority?

The rebels who wish to form a Muslim state and attack Israel?

Or the government troops of Assad who fight ALL these rebels?

Be sure that I do not believe Assad to be holy, however if it was not for outside interference he would be more than able to keep the people in Syria out of war.
He has more than once agreed to open a dialogue, however the rebels are only out to his destruction, after which they try to claim Lebanon and march on to Israel.

All of this while BillyB will be cheering on the Muslim terrorists.

[SANDRO43]

Our intelligence tells us there are good people in Syria and we should not abandon them.

I thought that your NSA, CIA, etc. were more equipped to investigate/analyse/judge "technical" rather than "moral" issues . What standard did they apply for such a weighty pronouncement ?

[GQBlues]

Likely the same intelligence that told 'us' there were good people in Afghanistan in the late '70s, so we didn't abandon them.
 
20-25 years later...the rest is history.

[lordtiberius]

Well I for one am happy ASSad is in the fight of his life.  How about a taste of his own medicine.  This is like the Iran Iraq war.  No winners just losers. 

The good guys Billy are the Kurds.  They aren't combatants just bullying for their own country.  Thats where our money should be.

[SANDRO43]

The good guys Billy are the Kurds. They aren't combatants just bullying for their own country.

Who happen to be split up among 4 different countries, the minority in Syria and the rest in Turkey and Iran, which will NEVER allow them independence , and Iraq where they are cautiously distancing themselves from its central pseudo-government, thanks to their oil and the latter's preoccupation with other more pressing matters.

Thats where our money should be.

Good luck, it looks even worse than Afghanistan .

[BillyB]

 

All of this while BillyB will be cheering on the Muslim terrorists.

 
How can we have a good debate if you work yourself into a frenzy believing that? Where did I say I support terrorists? You are the one that believes all Syrian rebels are terrorists. Ain't no different than those who believe all Muslims are bad, all RW are family oriented, and all RM are drunks. Find me an article on the internet from a respected news source that have evidence all Syrian rebels are terrorists.
 
 

I thought that your NSA, CIA, etc. were more equipped to investigate/analyse/judge "technical" rather than "moral" issues . What standard did they apply for such a weighty pronouncement ?

 
Their job is to report back if we can work with anybody and if we can work with them, they're the good guys.
 
 

Well I for one am happy ASSad is in the fight of his life.  How about a taste of his own medicine. 

 
Assad, Shadow's favorite in this mess, provided a safe haven for many of those terrorist groups. If one houses bad guys, one shouldn't be surprised when the bad guys try to take over the house.

[lordtiberius]

Sandro, during various points of history, the same could be said for Italy.

[SANDRO43]

Sandro, during various points of history, the same could be said for Italy.

Not quite, all Italians lived on the same peninsula, although it was subdivided into various kingdoms/dukedoms/etc., many of which under foreign rule.

For many centuries there was a geographical and cultural unity here that became a political unity in 1861, as there was in Germany (unified in 1871 by the Prussians), in France (after the Normans were finally defeated in 1453 at the end of the Hundred Years' War), and in Spain after bumping off the Andalusian Arabs in 1492 . 

I mean we, as the Germans, the French and the Spaniards to name our closest examples, were not living split up among various, long-established foreign countries - although some border regions were often changing hands, the national core remained one.

BTW, the Kurds are originally of Iranian stock and their languages are members of the Iranian branch of Indo-European languages, which are totally different from the Semitic language of the Arabs/Hebrews and the Turkic languages traceable to the Altay region, so probably their traditional culture is somewhat at odds with 3 of their neighbours, although they must be locally bilingual for political and religious reasons.

[lordtiberius]

Thank you for proving my point.


BillyB, you wanted a white hat, you got 1

[Shadow]

 
 
How can we have a good debate if you work yourself into a frenzy believing that? Where did I say I support terrorists? You are the one that believes all Syrian rebels are terrorists. Ain't no different than those who believe all Muslims are bad, all RW are family oriented, and all RM are drunks. Find me an article on the internet from a respected news source that have evidence all Syrian rebels are terrorists.
 
 
 
Their job is to report back if we can work with anybody and if we can work with them, they're the good guys.
 
 
 
Assad, Shadow's favorite in this mess, provided a safe haven for many of those terrorist groups. If one houses bad guys, one shouldn't be surprised when the bad guys try to take over the house.

There is no debate with you, as I do not talk to brick walls (apologies to offending the intelligence of the brick walls).
You believe women are guilty of rape in your reasoning.

[Shadow]

Well I for one am happy ASSad is in the fight of his life.  How about a taste of his own medicine.  This is like the Iran Iraq war.  No winners just losers. 

The good guys Billy are the Kurds.  They aren't combatants just bullying for their own country.  Thats where our money should be.

Good luck in telling Erdogan (who used chemicals against his own people to stop demonstrations) to give up that part of Turkey.

[lordtiberius]

Good luck in telling Erdogan (who used chemicals against his own people to stop demonstrations) to give up that part of Turkey.

I agree with you about Erdogan.  That was very sleezy.  The Turks have been a reliable ally in the region.  Their interests must be protected.

[Shadow]

I agree with you about Erdogan.  That was very sleezy.  The Turks have been a reliable ally in the region.  Their interests must be protected.

That is one of the main reasons why the rebels in Syria are supported.
The problem is that Turkey would also enjoy to see Israel disappear, which could lead to a conflict of interests between two allies.

[SANDRO43]

Thank you for proving my point.

I fail to see how that may have happened - but then your logic is often hard to fathom .

[lordtiberius]

The problem is that Turkey would also enjoy to see Israel disappear, which could lead to a conflict of interests between two allies.

Can you provide evidence of this?

I fail to see how that may have happened - but then your logic is often hard to fathom .

I know.  But if you try hard, you might get it.  God Bless You.

[Shadow]

Can you provide evidence of this?

Yes.

[TomT]

- but then your logic is often hard to fathom .

There is nothing wrong with your reading comprehension or your analytical skills.

[SANDRO43]

But if you try hard, you might get it.

Sorry, but your replies are all too often non sequiturs not really worth the extra effort .

[lordtiberius]

Sorry, but your replies are all too often non sequiturs not really worth the extra effort .

I am sure that you are fine man.  I wish you well.  I just disagree.

[lordtiberius]

If you were Bandar, who would you side with?  Can you blame him?

http://news.yahoo.com/saudi-spy-chief-says-riyadh-shift-away-u-122105436.html