The dance is coming to an end...

[die_cast]

Smart, beautiful, good career and great personaltiy and a good family back story.

no skype sessions. she gets on internet at cafe.

Seriously, nowdays only those FSUW who is poor as a church mouse have no PC or laptop and internet at home (or at least, at work).
Good career in Kiev but gets internet only at cafe? Red flag. 

[steveboy]

165,000 men search Google for "Russian brides" each month. Probably 158,00 are so stupid they still think Internet is not available in every Russians house. Thats why its very easy to convince them they have no internet access.   You need to remember many of these men are still living at home with mommy at the age of fifty and are completely clueless about their own country let alone Russia!!

[die_cast]

Go to meet, spend time together, meet as many friends and family as possible, see where she works if possible and learn as much as you can about each other in varying normal circumstances (cause that is how life will end up being lived, as honeymoons are a temporary diversion) and save the romantic honeymoon for later.

I have a question.
Why should I (a FSUW) introduce the guy (who comes to meet me for a week and who I actually don't know good enough because see him first time in my life) to my friends (and as many friends as possible) and to my family, and even show him the place where I'm working? Would I do the same with the local guy who I met few days ago? No, never. Why should I bother my friends and family and force them to spend their time with person who I'm not in serious long-term relationship? How many guys will come to see them before I find one who I'll marry?

[steveboy]

I have a question.
Why should I (a FSUW) introduce the guy (who comes to meet me for a week and who I actually don't know good enough because see him first time in my life) to my friends (and as many friends as possible) and to my family, and even show him the place where I'm working? Would I do the same with the local guy who I met few days ago? No, never. Why should I bother my friends and family and force them to spend their time with person who I'm not in serious long-term relationship? How many guys will come to see them before I find one who I'll marry?

Well lets not forget! Most Russian women don't have any money to buy food, let alone a computer and even if they did have money, there is no food in the shops! Actually they don't have supermarkets in Russia, thats why most are starving  and WILL marry the first man who comes along. Well so many think

[Shadow]

I have a question.
Why should I (a FSUW) introduce the guy (who comes to meet me for a week and who I actually don't know good enough because see him first time in my life) to my friends (and as many friends as possible) and to my family, and even show him the place where I'm working? Would I do the same with the local guy who I met few days ago? No, never. Why should I bother my friends and family and force them to spend their time with person who I'm not in serious long-term relationship? How many guys will come to see them before I find one who I'll marry?

If you are meeting a guy for one week, are you going to trust on your own opinion alone, or would you like to know how others like your friends see him?
That is of course when your opinion is positive. If you are already sure that you do not want a relationship with the guy there is no need to show him to anyone, except for getting a good laugh out of them.

[die_cast]

If you are meeting a guy for one week, are you going to trust on your own opinion alone, or would you like to know how others like your friends see him?

I never neened to know my friends' opinion about my bf, what is different this time? Not my friends gonna marry the guy, but I am. Also my friends would never tell me anything bad about my choice (a guy is not a dress or shoes), except if I tell them about things I don't like about the guy - they can agree or disagree with me about it.

There is another side of this situation: human's nature is to find bad things if they don't like the person and don't think that he is a good choice for their friend or daughter (for example, if they don't like his look and they think he is too old, or even if they don't want her to marry foreinger). So friends or family just can make up things they don't like about the guy and try to convince the girl that he is not good enough for her.

[jmana]

I have a question.
Why should I (a FSUW) introduce the guy (who comes to meet me for a week and who I actually don't know good enough because see him first time in my life) to my friends (and as many friends as possible) and to my family, and even show him the place where I'm working? Would I do the same with the local guy who I met few days ago? No, never. Why should I bother my friends and family and force them to spend their time with person who I'm not in serious long-term relationship? How many guys will come to see them before I find one who I'll marry?

Great point

[ML]

Seriously, nowdays only those FSUW who is poor as a church mouse have no PC or laptop and internet at home (or at least, at work).
Good career in Kiev but gets internet only at cafe? Red flag. 

4 years back, I did not have internet (or even a telephone) at this house where I am spending most of my time now and I did not regularly go to an office.  There was no mobile phone signal either.   

To access internet, I went to libraries, universities, friend's homes, etc.

No one here would have romanced me because of this red flag. 

[jmana]

4 years back, I did not have internet (or even a telephone) at this house where I am spending most of my time now and I did not regularly go to an office.  There was no mobile phone signal either.   

To access internet, I went to libraries, universities, friend's homes, etc.

No one here would have romanced me because of this red flag. 

You sound like the Unibomber

[steveboy]

4 years back, I did not have internet (or even a telephone) at this house where I am spending most of my time now and I did not regularly go to an office.  There was no mobile phone signal either.   

To access internet, I went to libraries, universities, friend's homes, etc.

No one here would have romanced me because of this red flag. 

The Mongolian border area? Smelly bugger! Probably no hot water either and washed in the river with all the other peasants 

[mendeleyev]

Why should I (a FSUW) introduce the guy (who comes to meet me for a week and who I actually don't know good enough because see him first time in my life) to my friends (and as many friends as possible) and to my family, and even show him the place where I'm working? Would I do the same with the local guy who I met few days ago? No, never. Why should I bother my friends and family and force them to spend their time with person who I'm not in serious long-term relationship? How many guys will come to see them before I find one who I'll marry?

As Shadow says, no need to introduce him around if there is no interest and no serious connection. However, I don't think that you would deny that there is a compression of time in long distance international relationships.

Unfortunately it seems that on average the most trips taken by a typical WM is one or two. Three or more seems ahead of the average. In my dealings with most Russian families, and there are exceptions of course, but most ladies and most families want to have some contact with the man their daughter is courting--even locally. It is the compression of time that is a factor here and not locally.

FACT: No scammer wants you to meet her family and friends.

FACT: In local dating, most couples do just what I outlined, they just do it at a more leisurely pace. Again, compression of time is an important factor here.

Were we to spend a typical day at a ЗАГС in Russia or a РАГС in Ukraine we'd have a hard time sorting thru the number of couples where this was a first time meeting of most family members and close friends.

I'd argue, and it is just common sense, that most families have an even greater interest in meeting someone who plans to take their daughter far away to another country and most of them wouldn't want to wait for that meeting until the day of the wedding. Most close friends would be the same.

Again, I agree diecast that there is no need to trot around a guy in whom you have no interest.

May I remind our readers that it wasn't that long ago that a popular tradition in Ukraine, and some families still do it, was to tie the couples arms together with wedding towels and parade them from house to house and from relative to relative once the young man had approached the parents with the news that he wished to marry their daughter.

[Muzh]

I have a question.
Why should I (a FSUW) introduce the guy (who comes to meet me for a week and who I actually don't know good enough because see him first time in my life) to my friends (and as many friends as possible) and to my family, and even show him the place where I'm working? Would I do the same with the local guy who I met few days ago? No, never. Why should I bother my friends and family and force them to spend their time with person who I'm not in serious long-term relationship? How many guys will come to see them before I find one who I'll marry?

 

[steveboy]

As Shadow says, no need to introduce him around if there is no interest and no serious connection. However, I don't think that you would deny that there is a compression of time in long distance international relationships.

Unfortunately it seems that on average the most trips taken by a typical WM is one or two. Three or more seems ahead of the average. In my dealings with most Russian families, and there are exceptions of course, but most ladies and most families want to have some contact with the man their daughter is courting--even locally. It is the compression of time that is a factor here and not locally.

FACT: No scammer wants you to meet her family and friends.

FACT: In local dating, most couples do just what I outlined, they just do it at a more leisurely pace. Again, compression of time is an important factor here.

Were we to spend a typical day at a ЗАГС in Russia or a РАГС in Ukraine we'd have a hard time sorting thru the number of couples where this was a first time meeting of most family members and close friends.

I'd argue, and it is just common sense, that most families have an even greater interest in meeting someone who plans to take their daughter far away to another country and most of them wouldn't want to wait for that meeting until the day of the wedding. Most close friends would be the same.

Again, I agree diecast that there is no need to trot around a guy in whom you have no interest.

May I remind our readers that it wasn't that long ago that a popular tradition in Ukraine, and some families still do it, was to tie the couples arms together with wedding towels and parade them from house to house and from relative to relative once the young man had approached the parents with the news that he wished to marry their daughter.

Im well over the average then, with over 35 trips in my first 6 years:)) and that was a few years ago. I met a few families as well, even stayed with several

[Boethius]

If you are meeting a guy for one week, are you going to trust on your own opinion alone, or would you like to know how others like your friends see him?
That is of course when your opinion is positive. If you are already sure that you do not want a relationship with the guy there is no need to show him to anyone, except for getting a good laugh out of them.

If you need someone else's opinion, IMHO, he is not a suitable choice.
 

[Muzh]

As Shadow says, no need to introduce him around if there is no interest and no serious connection. However, I don't think that you would deny that there is a compression of time in long distance international relationships.

Unfortunately it seems that on average the most trips taken by a typical WM is one or two. Three or more seems ahead of the average. In my dealings with most Russian families, and there are exceptions of course, but most ladies and most families want to have some contact with the man their daughter is courting--even locally. It is the compression of time that is a factor here and not locally.

FACT: No scammer wants you to meet her family and friends.

FACT: In local dating, most couples do just what I outlined, they just do it at a more leisurely pace. Again, compression of time is an important factor here.

Were we to spend a typical day at a ЗАГС in Russia or a РАГС in Ukraine we'd have a hard time sorting thru the number of couples where this was a first time meeting of most family members and close friends.

I'd argue, and it is just common sense, that most families have an even greater interest in meeting someone who plans to take their daughter far away to another country and most of them wouldn't want to wait for that meeting until the day of the wedding. Most close friends would be the same.

Again, I agree diecast that there is no need to trot around a guy in whom you have no interest.

May I remind our readers that it wasn't that long ago that a popular tradition in Ukraine, and some families still do it, was to tie the couples arms together with wedding towels and parade them from house to house and from relative to relative once the young man had approached the parents with the news that he wished to marry their daughter.

Mendy, not disputing the scammer issue, however, if both would take their time to 'get to know each other' instead of a few emails and then a world-tour, then the scammer issue should be minimized for both, don't you think?

If a woman introduces you to family and friends that act should be consider one of utmost trust of you. Not before. And that, the man has to earn.

[Shadow]

If you need someone else's opinion, IMHO, he is not a suitable choice.

I guess that you introduced your husband to your family and friends at the wedding.

[Boethius]

Seven and a half years after the wedding.

[Muzh]

Seven and a half years after the wedding.

LMFAO


Uh, Mom? Dad? I've been meaning to talk to you about some little thing that happened, oh, about seven years ago.

It reminds me when my wife told her parents about me. She was going to travel to Kyiv to meet me so a day or two before she left she talked to her parents that night as they were laying in their bed.

Mom? Dad? I have good news and bad news. I have a boyfriend.

So what's the good news? <Sarcasm>

He's from America and he will be here next week.

She says they just laid there staring at the ceiling not saying a word. For hours.

[Fishingguy]

i'm saying I see the impending signs of possible scammer.  We all know how difficult it is for single Ukrainian women to get visas to the United States and she is saying it is possible to get it immediately. Unless you have other information I don't know about. She's not a world class athlete, very rich, a journalist or fit into the other categories that would have favorable visa processed.

I've sponsored people for business visas and it is a hell of a  process for both sides.

I've just read and heard of other stories where people slowly scam Western guys. Telling me she can get a visa quickly is a red flag in my book.

Perhaps I'm just confused by your convoluted style of writing but are you saying that you communicated with a woman for 2 months and you got on well. When you said you'd have to delay your trip to her she offered to visit you instead. And because of that, you think she's a scammer? Is that right?

[GQBlues]

I have a question.
Why should I (a FSUW) introduce the guy (who comes to meet me for a week and who I actually don't know good enough because see him first time in my life) to my friends (and as many friends as possible) and to my family, and even show him the place where I'm working? Would I do the same with the local guy who I met few days ago? No, never. Why should I bother my friends and family and force them to spend their time with person who I'm not in serious long-term relationship? How many guys will come to see them before I find one who I'll marry?

die-cast,

Much of the things you'll read here and on other sites are generally things shared and beaten down by a bunch of men over the years, who, for lack of a better term, are composed to a myriad of men who generally have little to no innate/learned/acquired social/dating skills. Thus, much of the *advice* are tailored to suit.


The advice of *meeting* her parents and friends on the first visit falls into this example. It was suppose to *enable* the (clueless) men to immediately determine the sincerity of the women they fancy because they're incapable to make that simple determination by themselves.


I agree with you that it's absurd. I certainly DO NOT immediately introduce women I fancied to my friends and family from the get-go either, hence don't see the virtue of it for the women to do such with me. If they did, I'd graciously object considering I'm not prepared to submit myself to that part of the *acquaintance* at that stage since I do not believe it had manifested itself accordingly.


While I can understand Mendeleyev's contention that the MOB have time compaction implications, what I don't agree with is relying on that as a viable replacement for logic evaluation. IMHO, It is as absurd as men falling in love with women they haven't met in person.

When you read things on these fora, always remember many of the thoughts/advice expressed here and elsewhere are made by atypical men involved in the MOB that's been regurgitated for years by the great many of which (NOTE: that means *not all*) have little to no social skills. Or worst, social misfits and outcasts. They generally do not possess the thought process of a typical, socially well-adjusted male. So you will likely encounter many posts here that have little to no relativity to what can be best termed as *normal* in any given social or gender-interaction environment anywhere.

In short, many of the advice doled out that you'll read are, for the most part IMHO, dating tips for dummies.

[Fishingguy]

regarding other posts about introducing friends and family to a visitor. I would say that if the two people carry on well and the relationship has good potential there is nothing weird or wrong about introducing the visitor to friends and family.

Of the selected trips I've made to Eastern Europe I've met friends and family if time and proximity affords it.

Even in the American internet dating environment that is reasonable. You have talked with a guy for weeks or months over phone and emails and he comes cross country to visit you. You want to your friends to see him or her and dependinig on the situation family. Some of the time you want to share him with your friends, some of the time you want show him off, some of the time you want to have you friends validate or filter him.  But from a "old country" mentality showing hospitality to a visitor by introducing him to friends or family is proper in my book.

And just two months ago I didn't have internet at my house! I know of some people who do not have internet in their homes here in America. Not all Americans have internet nor would I presume for all Ukrainians. That wasn't a red flag in my book. She and her mother both have cell phones and that may a more important priority.

What was a red flag was the precursor to a request for money and her ability to get a visa quickly.

I'd rather not try to start something being very cynical and having her prove to me she's legitimate but I'd rather try to be smart about it with some safeguards and let the communications flow and see where it goes. But it's hard not to recognize a major red flag. I've heard of much more subtle scams already... 

[Muzh]

die-cast,

Much of the things you'll read here and on other sites are generally things shared and beaten down by a bunch of men over the years, who, for lack of a better term, are composed to a myriad of men who generally have little to no innate/learned/acquired social/dating skills. Thus, much of the *advice* are tailored to suit.


The advice of *meeting* her parents and friends on the first visit falls into this example. It was suppose to *enable* the (clueless) men to immediately determine the sincerity of the women they fancy because they're incapable to make that simple determination by themselves.


I agree with you that it's absurd. I certainly DO NOT immediately introduce women I fancied to my friends and family from the get-go either, hence don't see the virtue of it for the women to do such with me. If they did, I'd graciously object considering I'm not prepared to submit myself to that part of the *acquaintance* at that stage since I do not believe it had manifested itself accordingly.


While I can understand Mendeleyev's contention that the MOB have time compaction implications, what I don't agree with is relying on that as a viable replacement for logic evaluation. IMHO, It is as absurd as men falling in love with women they haven't met in person.

When you read things on these fora, always remember many of the thoughts/advice expressed here and elsewhere are made by atypical men involved in the MOB that's been regurgitated for years by the great many of which (NOTE: that means *not all*) have little to no social skills. Or worst, social misfits and outcasts. They generally do not possess the thought process of a typical, socially well-adjusted male. So you will likely encounter many posts here that have little to no relativity to what can be best termed as *normal* in any given social or gender-interaction environment anywhere.

In short, many of the advice doled out that you'll read are, for the most part IMHO, dating tips for dummies.

[Fishingguy]

Boethius...you don't know women very well do you?

Women no matter nationality compete against each other. They dress up not for men but for other women. Women compare their children, their salary, their husband's salary, their homes against each other. Happens to friends, to sisters, even enemies. That's the female DNA.

I haver a very good female friend and her "internet boyfriend" was flying in to meet her. I totally expect to see him after they have their alone time to give my blessing and approval hahaha.  And so I can be the objective eye if he is a perv or psycho because love blinds people when they have their hopes up.

and I agree with GQBlues almost all the time!

If you need someone else's opinion, IMHO, he is not a suitable choice.

[Boethius]

Boethius...you don't know women very well do you?

Women no matter nationality compete against each other. They dress up not for men but for other women. Women compare their children, their salary, their husband's salary, their homes against each other. Happens to friends, to sisters, even enemies. That's the female DNA.

I haver a very good female friend and her "internet boyfriend" was flying in to meet her. I totally expect to see him after they have their alone time to give my blessing and approval hahaha.  And so I can be the objective eye if he is a perv or psycho because love blinds people when they have their hopes up.

and I agree with GQBlues almost all the time!

No, I guess I don't understand a woman's mentality at all.

[Fishingguy]

I only think I do.  Women....sheesh.  Why can't they be like fish.

No, I guess I don't understand a woman's mentality at all.