What is a "hero"?

[Bee Farmer]

I have been here in Ukraine for 2 weeks now.  Many times now, I have heard women use the word hero.  Various women from all aspects of life.  Even if they know very little English, "hero" seems to be one of the words they all know.

In English, a hero is someone who saves others from a terrible situation.  Ukrainian women are using the word hero in a different sense.  I get the impression that a "hero" to a Ukrainian woman is someone who stands strong in the face of adversity.  Is this the correct meaning?

What does "hero" mean to a FSU woman?

If a Ukrainian woman calls a man a hero, is this a casual compliment, or is this a compliment of very high respect?

[Boethius]

It is usually used sarcastically.

[Shadow]

A hero is the rich American who saves the poor FSU woman from the life their ancestors lived for hundreds of years. 

[Bee Farmer]

If that is the usual use, what is the unusual use of the word hero?

[Boethius]

In common parlance, it is not used as a compliment.  It is typically preceded by (often vulgar) adjectives.  I can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, even if that's what you are looking for.

[Bee Farmer]

A hero is the rich American who saves the poor FSU woman from the life their ancestors lived for hundreds of years. 

What life would that be?

A tour guide said that before Soviet occupation, the Ukrainian farmers dream was to own a piece of land to raise his family on.  She said that of all the Soviet states, Ukraine resisted collective farming more than any other state.

The poverty seems to be a more recent phenomenom...mainly since the Soviet era.  The life the ancestors lived doesn't seem terrible.

[Bee Farmer]

In common parlance, it is not used as a compliment.  It is typically preceded by (often vulgar) adjectives.  I can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, even if that's what you are looking for.

And in cases when it IS used as a compliment...would you care to explain what is meant by the word "hero" when it is actually used as a compliment?  Or are you suggesting that it is never used as a compliment?

Then again, folks would probably suggest that on my first day in Kiev, I would never encounter Yushchenko out and about, introduce myself, and get a picture with him either.  (My interpreter/guide was shaking for over an hour afterwards.  She had never seen him in person before, much less talking to her.)

[Boethius]

It is not used as a compliment.  If you want to view it as a compliment, go ahead.  But then, don't ask a question to which you do not want an answer.


PS - If you hear "heroy" rather than "geroy" (very subtle, many foreigners would not hear the difference), it means they think you are a (pardon the expression), dick.

[Shadow]

What life would that be?

A tour guide said that before Soviet occupation, the Ukrainian farmers dream was to own a piece of land to raise his family on.  She said that of all the Soviet states, Ukraine resisted collective farming more than any other state.

The poverty seems to be a more recent phenomenom...mainly since the Soviet era.  The life the ancestors lived doesn't seem terrible.

Yet to us spoiled Westerners it would seem poor.

[Boethius]

That depends on the area of Ukraine, Shadow.  Central Ukrainians generally were not poor. 

[ML]

I thought a 'dick' had some usefulness.

[Boethius]

Only if it is not attached to a "heroy". 

[Shadow]

That depends on the area of Ukraine, Shadow.  Central Ukrainians generally were not poor.

I do not consider them poor in any way, however it depends on how one measures poverty. A farmer family that is self-sufficient, obviously not lacking any food or drink, but does not have the modern facilities like high speed internet, satellite TV and a washing machine with dryer might be seen as poor by some.

[ML]

I have been here in Ukraine for 2 weeks now.  Many times now, I have heard women use the word hero.  Various women from all aspects of life.  Even if they know very little English, "hero" seems to be one of the words they all know.

Strange . . . I have spent a lot of time in Ukraine with a lot of women; and can't recall ever hearing use of the word 'hero.'

Except possibly when mentioning something like . . . he or she received award as 'Hero of Soviet Union' when talking about WWII persons.

[Boethius]

I do not consider them poor in any way, however it depends on how one measures poverty. A farmer family that is self-sufficient, obviously not lacking any food or drink, but does not have the modern facilities like high speed internet, satellite TV and a washing machine with dryer might be seen as poor by some.

I meant before the Soviet period.

[Bee Farmer]

It is not used as a compliment.  If you want to view it as a compliment, go ahead.  But then, don't ask a question to which you do not want an answer.


PS - If you hear "heroy" rather than "geroy" (very subtle, many foreigners would not hear the difference), it means they think you are a (pardon the expression), dick.

I was not talking about "heroy" or "geroy".  Those are not English words.  I was referring to the English word "hero".

I highly doubt "Hero of the Soviet Union" is not intended as a compliment, so please do not insult my intelligence by suggesting that "hero" is not used as a compliment.

I am referring to those situations when the English word "hero" actually IS used as a compliment - what exactly do FSU people mean when they use the English word "hero"?

I do not consider them poor in any way, however it depends on how one measures poverty. A farmer family that is self-sufficient, obviously not lacking any food or drink, but does not have the modern facilities like high speed internet, satellite TV and a washing machine with dryer might be seen as poor by some.

I visited a beekeeper in Haisyn.  He lived on a tiny back alley.  He had a regular brick house.  He had a couple beehives in the front yard.  The back yard was completely filled with beehives.  On one side of the back yard there was a squat toilet outhouse.  Right beside the outhouse was a building the same size as the outhouse made of sheets of tin...with a garden hose over the top.  This was the shower.  (I have no idea if he had indoor toilet and shower.)

His daughter was perhaps 20.  She had travelled internationally, and even visited the US before.  She spoke some English.

Poor enough to have an outdoor toilet, but wealthy enough for his daughter to travel internationally, including the US.

Strange . . . I have spent a lot of time in Ukraine with a lot of women; and can't recall ever hearing use of the word 'hero.'

Don't let it worry you.  I suspect it is nothing more than a reflection of the character of the people around us.

[Slumba]

I was not talking about "heroy" or "geroy".  Those are not English words.  I was referring to the English word "hero".

I highly doubt "Hero of the Soviet Union" is not intended as a compliment, so please do not insult my intelligence by suggesting that "hero" is not used as a compliment.

I am referring to those situations when the English word "hero" actually IS used as a compliment - what exactly do FSU people mean when they use the English word "hero"?

Forgive me, but, why not get in the habit of asking when someone uses a word in English that seems different from what you believe is the common usage meaning? 

I know some cases where people use "hero" as a verb, "why hero yourself for this person?" for example.

[Bee Farmer]

Forgive me, but, why not get in the habit of asking when someone uses a word in English that seems different from what you believe is the common usage meaning? 

When their English is very limited, and I don't speak Russian or Ukrainian, it makes it difficult to understand the exact meaning they intended.

I figured the second best option would be to ask FSU women who had better English skills.  That's why I put this topic in the forum section for asking questions of FSU women...

I just never realized how many of the people who post on RWD are actually FSU women.  Especially the ones who claim to be male on their profile...

[Boethius]

I was not talking about "heroy" or "geroy".  Those are not English words.  I was referring to the English word "hero".

I highly doubt "Hero of the Soviet Union" is not intended as a compliment, so please do not insult my intelligence by suggesting that "hero" is not used as a compliment.

I am referring to those situations when the English word "hero" actually IS used as a compliment - what exactly do FSU people mean when they use the English word "hero"?

I visited a beekeeper in Haisyn.  He lived on a tiny back alley.  He had a regular brick house.  He had a couple beehives in the front yard.  The back yard was completely filled with beehives.  On one side of the back yard there was a squat toilet outhouse.  Right beside the outhouse was a building the same size as the outhouse made of sheets of tin...with a garden hose over the top.  This was the shower.  (I have no idea if he had indoor toilet and shower.)

His daughter was perhaps 20.  She had travelled internationally, and even visited the US before.  She spoke some English.

Poor enough to have an outdoor toilet, but wealthy enough for his daughter to travel internationally, including the US.

Don't let it worry you.  I suspect it is nothing more than a reflection of the character of the people around us.

Same meaning, and the common parlance originated from the phrase "Hero of the Soviet Union".

[Slumba]

I just never realized how many of the people who post on RWD are actually FSU women.  Especially the ones who claim to be male on their profile...

I am not trying to be a dick, but you are in Ukraine - the best time and place to ask is right there... you can at least ask them to give you the Russian or Ukrainian word they would normally use and then try to translate it yourself.

(Once in Asia I used the word "quite", which Americans would take as "very", e.g. "quite attractive" - it turned out that "quite" meant "so-so" in their interpretation.  So even if the person knows the word and speaks English well otherwise, they may not get the shade of meaning.)

[mendeleyev]

Bee Farmer,

Glad to hear of your travels and thanks for keeping us updated.

My wife for the past 3 years has been part of a museum project where she is one of a handful of Russian artists assigned to interview and paint portraits of heroes of the Great Patriotic War (WWII) so I hear this term many times thru the day. Mum often goes with her to meet the hero as Mum is writing a book on heroes of that war.

In addition, there are hero cities, so named because of the adversity those cities had to overcome during that awful war.

It is very odd to hear that someone uses the term hero in understandable English because that particular sound can be difficult to make for non-English speakers who grew up speaking a Cyrillic based language. "geroy" or "geroid" is more what I'd expect to hear as although Russian and Ukrainian are indeed separate languages, many words are shared and герой (geroy) is one of those shared terms.

The fact that this girl has traveled in the USA would lead me to believe that she has improved her language skills at least somewhat based on the info you've provided. This leads me to think, based on context, that she may simply be using her language skills to say the term as you'd recognize it. Unless she is using it in a manipulative fashion, then nothing more and nothing less than I've described. Since you are there and we aren't, you'll have to judge the contextual use of the term. Do understand that there are girls who would use it in a manipulative fashion so just be aware of the context.

My wife on occasion does refer to me as her geroy but usually after something out of the ordinary has been accomplished. I've called her a героиня (female version) on occasion for the same type of reasons and it has been well accepted. We've been together long enough for me to know the difference between genuine appreciation and something less. It is not a term we over-use however when completing each other.

Right beside the outhouse was a building the same size as the outhouse made of sheets of tin...with a garden hose over the top.  This was the shower.  (I have no idea if he had indoor toilet and shower.)

Was this a year-round farm house or a summer dacha?

If it was a simple farm house then it indeed was an outhouse and either homemade shower, and I've seen a lot of those, or a simple banya although I'd leaning toward the shower as opposed to banya with your description.

Most of those older houses don't have indoor plumbing beyond the kitchen and the kitchen plumbing was usually added years later after the initial construction.

His daughter was perhaps 20.  She had travelled internationally, and even visited the US before.  She spoke some English.

Poor enough to have an outdoor toilet, but wealthy enough for his daughter to travel internationally, including the US.

Not surprising, really. If his farm produces all of what they need to live, then with a state pension and health, he may have disposable income from selling excess produce, honey products, etc.

Those older Ukrainians and Russians generally don't feel the need to move up in lifestyle like we Westerners. I'd guess they're quite content with life and plan to someday die in that homestead. Were it me I'd at least want an indoor toilet and shower but apparently they simply have no desire for the hassles and headaches of moving to a big flat in cities like Kyiv, Moscow or Manhattan.

[Gator]

Bee Farmer,
It seems that you are having a good time in Ukraine.   Meeting  Yushchenko was certainly eventful.
 
I find RW very direct, so the context and animation will reveal much about a RW intentions regarding words she uses.
 
You make the comment that hero is used by "various women from all aspects of life.  Even if they know very little English, 'hero' seems to be one of the words they all know."  This threw me, because I have heard the word hero used only a few times by FSUW.  My wife speaks limited English, yet has used the word hero.  She says that I am now her hero, but wasn't when she first arrived in the US (but that is another story).
 
 
Sometimes RW will use a word from a popular song.   I was in the DR with a RW and she wanted to sing karaoke at the resort night club.   The song she chose was the 1980s hit "Holding Out for a Hero."  Bonnie Tyler she wasn't, yet I was proud of her for attempting it in front of so many strangers.   Drink will do that, so I applauded and screamed loudly.  The Bonnie Tyler song speaks of the "strong man" concept sought by FSUW, and I believe FSUW would identify with it. 
 
Another hero song.   RW like Enrique Iglesias.  His song about "hero" is very romantic, being the man who will stand by his woman forever.  A woman wanting such a hero would be looking for a man who makes her tremble passionately.  Again, the context would tell you what you need to know.   
 
I doubt you are confusing the English word hero with the Russian word for dick.  They do not sound the same.  Besides the context should be starkly different.   If you wish to clarify, you can ask a woman if she thinks you a "khuy"   but your question would be deemed offensive by most women    So don't ask and instead decide based upon the context.
 

[Daveman]

If that is the usual use, what is the unusual use of the word hero?

Like ML, I don't recall the word being used on any of my trips so I asked the family UkrainianSource^TM. According to the US^TM, the English word "hero" isn't used in her circles at all. She knows the word, of course.


You'll have to let us know what you find out from your sources there.

[Boethius]

I doubt you are confusing the English word hero with the Russian word for dick.  They do not sound the same.  Besides the context should be starkly different.   If you wish to clarify, you can ask a woman if she thinks you a "khuy"   but your question would be deemed offensive by most women    So don't ask and instead decide based upon the context.

Russian, and Ukrainian, are rich, expressive languages.  In Ukraine, "heroy", used in some contexts, is a mild way of expressing an opinion, rather than using vulgar language.  I speak the language, I've heard it, and I understood the context.

[Boethius]

Like ML, I don't recall the word being used on any of my trips so I asked the family UkrainianSource^TM. According to the US^TM, the English word "hero" isn't used in her circles at all. She knows the word, of course.


You'll have to let us know what you find out from your sources there.

Not surprising, Dave.  I mostly heard it from what generally translates to "black mouthed babas" (babas generally meaning "women").