Odessa To Kiev And More.

[Bee Farmer]

I spent 2.5 weeks in Ukraine.  My primary reason for going to Ukraine was to visit a bee convention, but there was a girl I exchanged a few emails with on ADate, so I spent some time in Odessa to visit her also.  (I was pretty sure she was just doing ADate for the money and not sincere about a relationship, but since I was in Ukraine it only made sense to meet her.)

I arrived on Thursday, September 26.  My initial impressions were that the Ukraine Air stewardesses were a lot better looking than any of the stewardesses I had on the United Airlines Flight or the Austrian Airlines.  As we were landing in Odessa, I couldn't help but notice how overgrown everything was.  This was noticeable from the air.

My guide picked me up at the airport and got me to my apartment.  Did a little bit of sightseeing on Friday and met the girl Friday evening.  ADate had given me a phone number for the agency interpreter and I was to confirm the date with the interpreter.  (The date was scheduled but still needed to be confirmed I guess.)  On Thursday, the agency interpreter never answered their phone.  On Friday, the agency interpreter still wasn't answering her phone.  So I contacted ADate through the internet, and they said they would contact the local agency.
My guide was having problems getting me a phone to use, so she was doing the phone work.  (She had promised to let me use her old iphone - but she had just moved and couldn't find it.  I was going to buy a cheap phone, but she refused.  After 3 days of no phone, she borrowed a phone from a friend of her's so I had a phone to use.) She finally got ahold of someone and confirmed the date at the last minute.

The girl shows up on time with the new interpreter.  We met at a little restaurant beside the Opera House.  The girl had a weightlifting/fitness competition the next day, and she had just came from weigh ins and registrations all day for the competition.
So the girl shows up in old tennis shoes, dirty jeans, a casual shirt, no make-up, and her hair was a little greasy and she needed a shower.  I have no idea if this was her way of saying she had no interest in me, or if this was because the date was confirmed at the last minute.
My guide decides to tell the girl and her terp that she (my guide) has already told me all the places that have double menus, etc.  She insults the girl and basically calls her a scammer.  Not exactly the first impression I wanted to make on the girl.
Since I was on crutches with a broken foot, my guide sits across the restaurant with a friend of her's in case I needed anything, and to help me back to my apartment after the date.

The girl was ready to kill my guide, to the point of making threats to her if I ever showed up with that guide again.  And she was extremely offended by my guide sitting at another table watching us. 

So after I diffused the situation by reminding the girl that she was there to see me and not my guide, things seemed smoother.  I brought the girl a few roses, and some honey from my hives, and a couple t-shirts from a fitness model the girl really idolizes.  The girl seemed a little distant, but warmed up as the conversation progressed.  I thought the date went fairly well, all things considered.
The girl agreed to meet with me again after I returned from Kiev.  She said it would be fine if we didn't use an interpreter and just used an electronic translator.  She gave me her contact info.
At the end of the date, using the electronic translator I asked the girl if she had a good time.  She smiled and typed back that it went better than she expected.

The fitness competition was the next day.  When I was in Kiev I got an email from her telling me that she got 2nd place and earned some Master of Sports certificate that is equivalent to a college degree.  So she was really busy with workshops and the degree program.

When I got back from Kiev for my final week in Odessa, she was always too busy to meet.  (So much for the promises she made in email that if I came to visit her she would find time to spend with me, and promises to show me around town.)  After I returned to America, she sent me another email telling me that she didn't feel any chemistry at our meeting.
So your guess is as good as mine.  Either she never had any sincere intentions, or maybe she just didn't like me, or maybe my guide screwed things up, or she really was too busy with everything after getting 2nd place and getting the Master of Sports degree.  (She didn't have time to play on VK, and she always spends time on there.)  My guess is that I became her Plan B after she got 2nd place at the competition.  The Master of Sports degree gets her the dream job of becoming a fitness instructor, while there are a bunch of uncertainties with a guy she just met.

Here are some pictures from my trip.

Monument to Catherine the Great in Odessa.  Ekaterininskaya Street is named after her.



Monument to Pushkin.



Port of Odessa.







One of the bee girl models at Apimondia posing for pictures.



Yushchenko and me.



Monument to the 3 brothers and the sister who founded Kiev.



Independence Square in Kiev.





Mother of the Motherland statue in Kiev.  The tour guide said Brezhnev's daughter was the model the statue.





View from the balcony of my 16th floor room at the Slavutych Hotel in Kiev.



View from the Slavutych hotel balcony by the elevator lobby looking in the opposite direction.



Sign for the town of Chernobyl.



Monument to all the abandoned villages in the exclusion zone.  Each sign is a different village.



Monument to the firefighters who died responding to the fire at the nuclear power plant.



Graveyard display of robot vehicles used to clean up Chernobyl.



Chernobyl nuclear power plant.



Permanent containment structure being built for Chernobyl.





Ghost town of Pripyat.



Bumper cars in the amusement park.



Iconic Ferris wheel.



"Honey Fields" beekeeping operation near Hrebinky.  The tour bus parked on a small road, and we walked back a half mile muddy, rutted path to get back to his house.  I was impressed by this operation.  The owner is a very forward thinking man.  He just built a new carpentry shop for making more beehives.  he had a bunch of rough sawn lumber stacked and drying to get it ready for use.
He had about 350 hives (plans to get 1,000-2,000 hives and wants to hire 2 workers) and averages about 80-110 kg of honey per hive.  He also produces and sells 3,500 mated queen bees at 10 Euros per queen.
Both his son and daughter went to college for beekeeping.  His daughter is in college studying royal jelly.





This was a beekeeping operation at Ruzhyn.  The beekeeper has 450 colonies and averages 90-110 kg of honey per hive.  He has to move the bees 6-7 times in a season, taking them to different flowering areas. 
He has some kind of deal worked out with the government.  He only breeds the Ukrainian Steppe bee.  The government of Ukraine gives him 3 kg of sugar for each hive, plus they give him 30 Euros per hive subsidy.  (Personally, I think the government subsidies could be spent in better ways.  At close to $2 a pound for honey, he is already grossing over $150,000 USD a year for his family operation.  Nice vehicles, nice home, nice bee equipment...villagers in poverty, and he gets the subsidies?)
The students from the Cherniatynskyi Agricultural College of Vinnytsia National Agrarian University also study at his operation.



The Ukrainian Steppe Bee



A couple photos of the Ukrainian countryside.







Bad photo of a Ukrainian cemetery, but it was the only shot I was able to get.  I was impressed at how the cemeteries are decorated in flowers.



Beekeeping operation in Haisyn.  This is his backyard.  This beekeeper produces and sells royal jelly.  His daughter had visited the USA before, and she spoke some English.



A squat toilet.



Entrance to the Prokopovych Beekeeping Museum in Kiev.





Open air observation hive at the Prokopovych Museum.



Odessa Opera House.



Fountain in the park on Deribasovskaya Street.



Entrance to the Odessa catacombs.



Ferrari parked at the shipping docks.  A Lada was parked a short distance away.



Potemkin Stairs from the bottom.



Potemkin Stairs from the top.

[JayH]

BF-- I am always interested to read of Ukraine primary production and comparisons with other countries practices-- BUT--- have you not read on forums about Anastasia? The chances of you avoiding the AD scam were about  zero. The site  is dishonest-- at the best. Like most of the big websites ( AD,HRB,RLM,DM plus many more) ,the agencies,the girls themselves-- are in on what is in effect a scam.
How on earth( forum earth at least) have you missed that?
 While it is possible to navigate thru the maze-- chances are at less than 10% for those savvy-- so next to nothing for the naive.How have you missed that?

[Bee Farmer]

Jay,
  I didn't miss anything.  I knew what I was getting into.  I only wrote one girl on ADate, and I didn't spend more than I was prepared to spend.  (and I have spent far more on American girls.)  It should also be noted that I wasn't going to Ukraine searching for a wife.  I had other reasons for going to Ukraine, and since I was there, I saw no reason not to meet a girl that seemed interesting.

Anastasia's target audience is a 50 or 60 year old, divorced fat pervert who is looking for a 20 year old hottie.  They are trying to sell a fantasy, not a reality.  If we stopped having grandpas with wet dreams of barely legal girls, ADate would go belly up overnight.

You only need to read a few posts on here to see that the average guy is extremely self centered and selfish.  They concentrate on their desired benefits, and they give little, if any, consideration to what a girl is looking for.  Guys forget that the scammers are real girls too.  They have emotions - learn how to touch their emotions and you will see a different side to the girls.

Anyone with half a brain understands that a cute girl will respond completely different to a guy that is age appropriate, never married and no kids, reasonably physically fit, and has some financial stability.

I also do this thing called praying and talking to God.  And when I feel led to do something, I have learned to do it.  (even if it means contacting a girl on ADate.)
I've learned not to lean on my own understanding, and to trust God.  I have a pretty good life, and it's not going to kill me if I don't marry a FSU girl.  For all I know, maybe God wanted to use me to impact her life (or someone elses life in Odessa) in some way I don't see...and that's ok with me.

In many ways, this girl reminded me of myself 10 years ago after an especially painful breakup.
She never came out and said it, but I think she wrote letters for her agency.  A month before I came to visit, she quit her job.

I just wanted to meet the girl - and in that, I succeeded.  Beyond that, it's in God's hands what the final results are.  ADate was just a tool.

[Ooooops]

You live - you learn.  I've never heard about Bee Keepers Conventions, but thanks to this forum, now I do!   


http://apimondia2013.org.ua/en/

[Welder]

The fitness competition was the next day.  When I was in Kiev I got an email from her telling me that she got 2nd place and earned some Master of Sports certificate that is equivalent to a college degree. So she was really busy with workshops and the degree program.

When I got back from Kiev for my final week in Odessa, she was always too busy to meet.  (So much for the promises she made in email that if I came to visit her she would find time to spend with me, and promises to show me around town.)  After I returned to America, she sent me another email telling me that she didn't feel any chemistry at our meeting.
So your guess is as good as mine.  Either she never had any sincere intentions, or maybe she just didn't like me, or maybe my guide screwed things up, or she really was too busy with everything after getting 2nd place and getting the Master of Sports degree.  (She didn't have time to play on VK, and she always spends time on there.)  My guess is that I became her Plan B after she got 2nd place at the competition.  The Master of Sports degree gets her the dream job of becoming a fitness instructor, while there are a bunch of uncertainties with a guy she just met.

Bee farmer no reason to guess.  She sent you an email telling you directly she felt no chemistry.


She also tried to let you down easy by telling you before you returned to Odessa that she was busy.  You missed the point of her email IMHO.

[Patagonie]

Nice report Bee, and some interesting things about bees.

Just don't date a girl with a cap, just my advice.

[lonedrake]

Hey,hey,hey.....How about Bee Farmers excellent trip report and equally great photos   I even recognized some of the places in Kiev. Thank you Bee Farmer

[alex330]

We met at a little restaurant beside the Opera House.

Was it the Italian place called Casanova? 

So the girl shows up in old tennis shoes, dirty jeans, a casual shirt, no make-up, and her hair was a little greasy and she needed a shower.  I have no idea if this was her way of saying she had no interest in me, or if this was because the date was confirmed at the last minute.

If a Ukrainian woman showed up dressed like that for a date I would think there is no interest. The rest of your story pretty much confirms this.

Great pictures, and thanks for the report. The beekeeping is extremely interesting for me. It is something I have always wanted to get into. My wife's Uncle has some hives outside the city of Odessa which we will see next trip over.

She never came out and said it, but I think she wrote letters for her agency. 

I can pretty much guarantee it.

[mendeleyev]

Bee, thank you for the excellent report and photos. Very enjoyable!

The bee keeping is a special part of the FSU and on your next trip I'd encourage you to visit some of the monasteries where bee keeping and production of honey and bees wax candles are such a key factor in those societies. Honey is considered medicinal as well as a food product.

The photos below are of bees wax candles to be sold for services in a Russian church, priced in rubles.

[ML]

BK, thanks for the nice TR and pictures.

My Ochka's parents are beekeepers, but not on a commercial level.

It is a lot of work (as has been described to me), they get good production . . . and then give a lot of honey away to family, neighbors, friends, etc.  And Ochka brings some back from each of her trips.

Nothing wrong in believing in God; but keep in mind that he/she is pretty busy with world wide things, and might not have the time to tend to individual needs.  Plan to take care of yourself.

[JohnDearGreen]

Farmer:
Looks like Yushchenko's skin problem is healing.   You did the right thing by chasing the lady and not chasing web sites.  Those that send out 1000 letters thinking lady luck will find them, not vice versa, are the clueless ones.

[southernX]

Bee, thank you for the excellent report and photos. Very enjoyable!

The bee keeping is a special part of the FSU and on your next trip I'd encourage you to visit some of the monasteries where bee keeping and production of honey and bees wax candles are such a key factor in those societies. Honey is considered medicinal as well as a food product.

yes thank you beefarmer , id second the above

bees and honey are a huge part of the FSU ,
my wife uses honey in chai , and can eat it off the spoon just to enjoy as well as medicinally in drinks for colds/flues etc

patagonie ..Just don't date a girl with a cap, just my advice.

yep id agree with that , lose that hat beefarmer and a shave would improve your looks no end as well 

we all talk/read  about the hairy boris or yuri , but in my observations of time spent in ukraine /russia , only a small % of guys are unshaven , bearded or have moustaches , they are there , but its more common to see imho a short back and side clean shaven man out & about

my family there explain it as , a man who doesnt shave or take care of himself looks more like a homeless person , if you cant look  after & respect your self it follows  you may not be able to do it for a wife & family
automatic next button for many FSU women

You live - you learn.  I've never heard about Bee Keepers Conventions, but thanks to this forum, now I do! 

oops , very surprised you havent come across this before ,

SX

[ML]

I thought Pat was saying not to date a woman who wears a hat.

And it is not true that all men would look better if they shaved their beard.  Beard can cover up a lot of ugly.

Also, several of the gals I have been with (including Ochka) actually encouraged me to not be clean shaven on a daily basis.  A 2-3 day bristly face apparently feels pretty good in certain places.

[ML]

Bee Farmer, what was that Bee Keeper's name in Ruzhyn?

Ochka's parents have some friends that live in that area, and they  were wondering if they knew this man; they might be interested in buying a bee or two.

Thanks

[Ooooops]

oops , very surprised you havent come across this before ,

Why would I?  I'm just your average consumer.   

[southernX]

Why would I?  I'm just your average consumer.   

im surprised cause as an average consumer married to a  FSU lady ,
given your married a long time , probably visited there often etc etc
honey is an important food & medical product there ,etc
 
so it just kinda struck me most guys like you & me would have run across bee keepers and theIr conventions in the FSU  at some time as a general point of info

however it isnt a crime ,  just surprised me is all


SX

[Ooooops]

im surprised cause as an average consumer married to a  FSU lady ...

Eeeerrrr....   I am a FSU lady, although a consumer as well.   

[Slumba]

Bee Farmer, thanks for the trip report and I wish you well in the future 

[southernX]

Eeeerrrr....   I am a FSU lady, although a consumer as well.   

ooops , ahh what can i say but oooops on my  part for such ignorance
please forgive me

still surprised though , lol

now when you read my post above  im sure you where surprised , lol

SX

[Ooooops]

 

[Stirlitz]

Bee Farmer, apart from using a dishonest agency, you did not seem to choose the right guide. Why wouldn’t I get a phone for you the day you arrived? Basic cell phones go at $30 here, used ones and even some new models. Not a problem whatsoever.

[Bee Farmer]

Just don't date a girl with a cap, just my advice.

I didn't wear the hat on my date, but in hindsight, I should have worn the hat.  It was wrong for me not to wear the hat.

#1 She rejected me for other reasons anyway, so wearing the hat wouldn't have made a difference.

#2 I have light sensitive eyes.  If it is sunny and I don't wear a hat, my eyes will be burning and watering.  I have eyeglasses that automatically darken in sunlight.  They help, but a hat is necessary.
If a relationship were to develop, a girl needs to understand that I will wear a hat in my daily life, whether she likes it or not.  I refuse to endure unnecessary physical pain and discomfort because she doesn't like hats.  I'm not going to change, so it is false advertising if I don't wear a hat.  I would be pretending to be someone that I am not.

#3 If I wore a hat to the date, I would have taken it off when I met the girl as a sign of respect.  By not wearing a hat, I missed out on an opportunity to show respect.

#4 Not wearing a hat feels unnatural to me.  I would have been more relaxed if I had my hat.

For other people, not wearing a hat might be advisable.  In my situation, being how I am naturally is the best, even if that means wearing a hat.

The bee keeping is a special part of the FSU and on your next trip I'd encourage you to visit some of the monasteries where bee keeping and production of honey and bees wax candles are such a key factor in those societies.

The tour I took was supposed to include visiting a monastery.  For some reason the trip itinerary got changed and we didn't visit the monastery and visited another beekeeper instead.  (I would have preferred to visit the monastery - the beekeeping operation wasn't worth visiting.)

At this point I have no intentions of visiting Ukraine again.

 

Was it the Italian place called Casanova? 

I don't know.  If you are at the Opera House looking towards Deribasovskaya Street, you cross Lanzheronovskaya and the restaurant is on the corner on the right, but it sets in the back of the corner lot.

It is a lot of work (as has been described to me), they get good production . . . and then give a lot of honey away to family, neighbors, friends, etc.  And Ochka brings some back from each of her trips.

It has been said before that for the effort for a beekeeper to make $1, they could easily make $2 in any other line of work.  You earn every penny you get.

You need to teach Ochka's family capitalism.   The secret to improving your lot in life is to produce more than you consume, and to save the difference.  After you have saved enough capital, you should invest it in a productive enterprise.

You never get ahead if you give away all the excess production. (or if you consume everything you produce)  Yes, it is great to benefit others, but making others lives better is the secret to getting rich.  Just look at Steve Jobs.  How many lives did he improve with all the Apple products?  And it made him a billionaire.

Nothing wrong in believing in God; but keep in mind that he/she is pretty busy with world wide things, and might not have the time to tend to individual needs.  Plan to take care of yourself.

He has enough time to make sure that even the sparrows have food, and I'm pretty sure that I'm more important than a sparrow.  Although there is a good lesson to be learned from the sparrows - while he makes sure they get fed, he doesn't put the food in their bowl for them.  he makes them take some responsibility for themselves.

But out of curiosity, how would you recommend that I take care of myself?  Bees are an agricultural pursuit, and when people are connected to nature, they are more at God's mercy.
Every winter, beehives die.  That's life.  30% losses (or less) during winter are sustainable.  Very low losses in winter greatly help you profitability the next year.  Beekeepers do the best they can to prepare hives for winter, but ultimately, it is in God's hands.
In the springtime, hives will want to swarm, and half the bees will leave the hive to go form a new colony.  This is the natural way hives reproduce.  But if a hive swarms, there go all the bees that were going to make your honey crop.  Bye-bye profits.  Beekeepers fight bees natural impulses trying to prevent swarming, so we can get more honey.  But ultimately, it is in God's hands if a hive swarms or not.
There are pests and diseases that plague bees.  Beekeepers tend to be reactionary to these problems.  (If we took precautionary actions, we would constantly be treating hives with antibiotics and chemicals that can contaminate and build up in the combs, contaminate honey, or just cause pathogens to become resistant to the antibiotics or treatments that we use.)  Some hive diseases wipe out your production for the year, and can spread to many hives in that location.  Ultimately, it is in God's hands.
While a beekeeper can move hives to areas that have lots of flowers, beekeepers can't control the weather.  If it is too dry, flowers don't produce nectar.  If it rains, the rain washes the nectar our of the flower, and it can often take 2-3 days for the flower to produce nectar again.  Ultimately, the weather is in God's hands.

I own 2 houses.  One house is a rental, and I also rent out the 38 by 50 garage separately.  I can do my best to find good tenants that will take care of the place and pay me, but ultimately it is in God's hands.

My other house is on a main highway and I am putting in lots of berry plants, so I can sell berries and honey at a roadside stand.  I can't be in 10 places at once, so the roadside stand will have an honor box for paying for stuff.  Once again, it is in God's hands to keep people honest and to give a good harvest and weather and all that stuff.

Stocks?  Bonds?  I pulled my money out of those things back in 2006.  Except for my 401K, which I pulled out last year to buy the rental property.

Anyone involved with agriculture has to have faith in God.  Otherwise, they would never plant the first seed.  You have to have faith that God will provide.

we all talk/read  about the hairy boris or yuri , but in my observations of time spent in ukraine /russia , only a small % of guys are unshaven , bearded or have moustaches , they are there , but its more common to see imho a short back and side clean shaven man out & about

my family there explain it as , a man who doesnt shave or take care of himself looks more like a homeless person , if you cant look  after & respect your self it follows  you may not be able to do it for a wife & family
automatic next button for many FSU women

I think there is a difference between someone with groomed facial hair, and someone with unkept facial hair.

I had already discussed facial hair with the girl I was meeting, and she was ok with facial hair that was kept trimmed and neat.

And it is not true that all men would look better if they shaved their beard.  Beard can cover up a lot of ugly.

You bring up a very good point.  When I was 20 years old, I was involved in a bad auto accident.  The end of my nose, upper lip, and chin got cut up pretty bad with glass.  The scars aren't a nasty red anymore, but they are still very noticeable if I am clean shaven.  I look a whole lot better with facial hair to hide the scars.

Bee Farmer, what was that Bee Keeper's name in Ruzhyn?

Ochka's parents have some friends that live in that area, and they  were wondering if they knew this man; they might be interested in buying a bee or two.

The paperwork I have says beekeeper Zagorodniuk O.I.
Address: 13645, Ukraine, Zhytomyr region, Ruzhyn district, Holubivka village, Sadova 7.
Phone: 38 (04138) 9-77-88, or 38 (0973) 41-69-23

You live - you learn.  I've never heard about Bee Keepers Conventions, but thanks to this forum, now I do!   


http://apimondia2013.org.ua/en/

Oooops, don't feel bad that you didn't know about the beekeeper conference Apimondia.  Apimondia is an international beekeeping conference that meets every 2 years in a different country.  This is the first time it has ever been held in Ukraine.  The next time it meets it will be in South Korea.

Bee Farmer, apart from using a dishonest agency, you did not seem to choose the right guide.

I agree with you.  I had a lot of problems with my guide.  They didn't seem to understand that I expected them to help me enjoy myself, instead of arguing with me at every turn.  It's my life, my vacation, and if I want to waste my money or meet girls from agencies they don't approve of, it is my decision.  A guide who thinks they know what is best for your life in every aspect can make life miserable.  (But it can also make you appreciate being single.  )

[Bee Farmer]

As I toured across Ukraine going through the countryside and seeing small villages, I couldn't help but think to myself that the local Amish in my area have a much higher standard of living than many Ukrainian villagers.

I was actually surprised to see so many villagers doing all the gardening and farm work by hand.  They would have cows running around, but no one was smart enough to put a yoke on the cows.

In many cultures around the world, it is common for farmers to use horses, cows, mules, or any large animals for farm work.  Heck, some places even use elephants as tractors or bulldozers. 

So why don't Ukrainians use animals to do farm work?  It would allow them to farm more ground and earn more profits and get a better standard of life.  or has the Soviet culture beaten them down mentally to the point that they are complacent and apathetic?  They have no desire to try doing more?

In the villages I saw many little hand dug wells in front of the houses.  We call them wishing wells here in the US.  They have the bucket on the rope to draw the water.  (I assume the Ukrainians still use these for water.)  I saw very few windmills in Ukraine.  Here, Amish (or farmers off the electric grid) still use windmills to pump water.

It just seemed to me that many of the villagers were making their lives harder than they needed to be.

[mendeleyev]

Bee, I'd count some of your observations as related to your limited time in the country. The idea of hitching animals to farm implements is something you'd see hourly especially in places like Ukraine and Belarus were you to do an extended drive. The 'troika" a specific way of hitching horses or other animals to wagons was a product of monasteries in rural Russia centuries ago.

There are thousands of windmills across Ukraine but yes, those little front yard wells are very common and mostly used for watering flowers and gardens. In the back of most homes are deeper wells for kitchen use.

I do agree that the Soviet period has profound and long lasting implications for some folk but new generations are beginning to see past all that.

[calmissile]

Bee Farmer,

I was wondering the same thing about all the manual labor rather than using garden tractors, etc.  While in one of the small towns I happened to be walking by a store that sold hardware and machinery.  A quick look at the price tags for rototillers and small garden tractors answered my question.  They were even more expensive than in the US!  Considering that the average family income is around $500 (if lucky), it's pretty clear they cannot afford the tools.

I did wonder why there were not rental places or co-ops where the costs could be spread over a large number of people.  The answer I got was that the machinery would come back all beat up.....if it came back at all.