English Speaking FSUW Versus Non-English Speaking FSUW

[Markus]

It's amazing that when opinions are offered, there's always the extreme. Perhaps I have fallen into that category a time or two (not here yet), but, on this subject, I have seen men talk about how bad it is if the lady does not speak English. If men who are in the searching process believe that statement, they can miss out on some good ladies.  I'll share my experience.

When I was searching the profiles, I didn't care about the level of English speaking ability. And, of course, I began zoning in on a lady who didn't speak much English. She told me she spoke very little English. After I called her for the first time, I realized she was being somewhat optimistic in her English abilities. I couldn't understand anything she said and she didn't understand anything I said except for SMS. I had to ask her in my next letter if I had spoken to her. So, she spoke very very very little English.

I began using an interpretor ($1.00 per min and he paid for the phone call) and that's how we conversed on the phone for 3 months.  She did understand some of things I said in English though. After I visited her and came back home, I continued to use the interpretor, but I told her we need to being conversing in English even if it's difficult. 


During my first visit, I took a Etaco translator with me, which helped very much. Immediately after I arrived on my first visit, it took about 20 minutes for 3 Russian people to ask me if I was tired from the journey because they wanted me to go with them. Little did I know it was Christmas Eve there. We used that electronic interpretor very much. Is it possible that the time we spent together slowing communicating that way was romantic? Well the answer would depend on the people involved. For us, it was fun. Let me take it a step further and say we were able to communicate without even speaking English or Russian. If a critic takes that statement literally, it's absurd; But a literal interpretation of that statement is not correct or the intention. Again, the communication at this level depends on the two people involved. 

My wife took two English classes in Russia and I also brought her books and tapes to assist in her learning process. Yes, we eventually began communicating in English on the phone. Her understanding of reading and writing was above her ability to understand the spoken words of English and her ability to speak English. But, those two classes considerably increased her English abilities. Fortunately, she wanted to learn and put forth a strong effort. I was with her in her first English class in Russia and the teacher asked me to speak to the class who was just finishing their first class. I was like a celebrity because I spoke English.

I proposed in January 2004 and was married in July 2004. I'll jump ahead and skip her progress of learning English during that time and focus on her arrival in Nov 2005 to now. My wife took a placement exam and the teacher advised her to begin with level 2. I take my wife to two ESL classes two days a week, one on grammar and one on oral communications. She studies very much and she asks me many questions about English. I thought I knew grammar rules good but realize I know don't them well enough to teach at that level. I've actually learned some things myself about English.  My wife doesn't like her oral communications class because she tells me she is helping the other students. So her English has progress very well. 

Only a man with patience can endure the difficulties with a language barrier. I recall a man who became frustrated that his lady would not put forth the effort to learn English. If the lady doesn't study, that's a very difficult situation. But, he put on the burden on her for learning English and that's an important observation.  If a man expects his lady to learn English without his help, or he becomes frustrated when he needs to discuss important issues and he wants his opinion known, there's a big problem. An impatient man or a man who does not have the ability to teach should avoid non-English speaking ladies. But, a man who does not have patience may have problems anyway with an FSU woman. This whole process take patience. The patience process does not end when she arrives; it actually increases.


The biggest obstacle I have learned about my wife and her English ability is that she becomes intimidated when she's around people here in the U.S.  She doesn't realize how good her English has improved. But, she is beginning to become more comfortable around English speaking people. I began slowly, but I increasingly make sure she experiences the social atmosphere of being around English speaking people other than me.  She is evolving into the comfort of realizing she can converse better with other people, much better than she thinks she can communicate. 

So, for men who are beginning, if you see the profile of a lady who you find attractive, should you avoid her if she doesn't speak English? That decision is based upon how much extra effort you want to put forth in this process.

Mark

[Bruno]

[size="3"]It's amazing that when opinions are offered, there's always the extreme.[/size]

Why do you think so... Maybe some members here can be extreme, from one side of other... but some post are not black and white, they are more in the grey level...

And i think that for a forum, it is the perfect situation... you have the full spectrum... black, shade of grey, and white...

The problem is not the post but how you make your own position in the full spectrum... You need analyse post and see what is good for YOU... The way that one propose can be bad for you... maybe no one of the way presented is good for you... It is your work to take the hint ( fully or partial post ) who apply to your own personal situation...

These forum is not more extreme that a other forum, maybe a little more blunt, hard but really, it is not a problem...

[Sohkay]

Excellent post OneWeek.

[Turboguy]

Yes, I thought that was a very interesting posts and I think it makes you a living example of the point I have tried to make many times here.   It two people want to be together and have patience the language will not be a problem.

Another gal I know is another living example of what some people think is  "the impossible".   When she arrived here the only thing she could say in English is I am hungry.   She went on to quickly reach the point where she even does not have much of an accent.

My former fiancee and I did not have the happy ending you two have had but I always thought the struggle with language added to the relationship more than it detracted. 

I think if someone found RWD first, they could save a lot on an interpreter.  You did pay through the nose a bit but I am sure it was worth it.  You had better luck with the electronic translater than I did.   I had one of their premium models and it seemed to me to be about useless.  The two times I tried to use it the only way the gals knew what I was saying was to read what I was typing.  They knew written English well enough to translate it themselves.   The Russian the unit put out was not much more than giberish.

I did enjoy your story and am glad things worked so well for you.  Most of the gals I have met lately seem to know English well.  I sort of miss the challenges of fun of trying to communicate the way you had to.

[BC]

[user=1061][color="red"]The[/color]OneWeek[color="red"]Wonder[/color][/user]

Your nickname really says it all.

Claiming your relationship is a wonder is great. We're all happy for you. Those following your posts should however note that your situation is an exception and certainly not the rule.

Vegas would not exist if winning streaks could be copied and passed on to others.

Not piss'n in your pot, just putting things into perspective.

[indent]Synonyms: wonder, marvel, miracle, phenomenon, prodigy, sensation
These nouns denote one that evokes amazement or admiration: saw the wonders of Paris; a marvel of modern technology; a miracle of culinary art; a phenomenon of medical science; a musical prodigy; the theatrical sensation of the season.


[/indent]

[user=1061][color="red"][color="black"][/color][/color][/user]

[PeeWee]

A good post. One well thought out and suscinct. I have learned that the woman's ability to judge her language skill can be either oppotimistic or pessimistic. I met a lady last month via the Internet who noted her English skill as "fair". Normal I pass on those and look for the "fluent" ones. But this one was a knockout and there were other things in her profile that made me notice. I called her only to learn that she spoke English very well. If it had not been for the poor phone connection, her accent, and the fact that she was laughing sometimes when she was speaking, I otherwise understood everything she told me. Her vocabulary is actually larger than mine. I was pleasantly suprised.

I would not attempt a relationship with one who could not speak English. For me this is diffcult enough without adding another degree of difficulty to it all.


Hey, Oneweek, are you also a weekend warrior?
 

Peewee

[jb]

But the truth is; he just doesn't know what he's getting into.  He can speculate as much as he wants, but he still can't have an in-depth conversation with a woman with whom he speaks no common language.

I'd only say to the newbies reading this, be very careful, this is not an easy task.  Ripe plumbs do not usually just fall into your hands, neither do good women.

[PeeWee]

But the truth is; he just doesn't know what he's getting into.  He can speculate as much as he wants, but he still can't have an in-depth conversation with a woman with whom he speaks no common language.

I'd only say to the newbies reading this, be very careful, this is not an easy task.  Ripe plumbs do not usually just fall into your hands, neither do good women.

Yep, like mining for gold. One needs to look long and hard for that one nugget. It's even harder to find diamonds, or so I have been told. Find that diamond in the rough and you may just have something of value in your hands.

 

Peewee

[Markus]

But the truth is; he just doesn't know what he's getting into.  He can speculate as much as he wants, but he still can't have an in-depth conversation with a woman with whom he speaks no common language.

I'd only say to the newbies reading this, be very careful, this is not an easy task.  Ripe plumbs do not usually just fall into your hands, neither do good women.

jb

jb, (small letters I remember)

It's good to converse with you again. I hope things are good with you and that you are pulling for the Dallas Mavericks.

You mentioned to the newbies that, "this is not an easy task." You are correct in that it's not easy, but, I have found that most of this process was not easy. So, I would like to ask how you "know" that marrying a non-English speaking FSUW or an FSUW that speaks little English is not an easy task. Have you experienced a marriage with an FSUW who did not speak much English or is your statement based upon opinion only? Perhaps you can use your experience with a non-English FSUW to show that marrying an FSUW with little English skills requires an extra effort from the man.  I can only respond to your first sentence since you did not specify who "he" is in your previous sentence.

Bruno, I agree with your comments, and thanks Turbobuy for your comments.
Peewee, yea I'm a weekend warrior plastering walls, painting and learning how to tile a floor.

Bruno, you missed the definition of the most important word "One" as it applies to marriage. Rather than do a google search or consult my books, when "The Two Become One", the Hebrew word is used as plurality describing how a man and woman become "One" flesh.

Mark

[Bruno]

Bruno, you missed the definition of the most important word "One" as it applies to marriage. Rather than do a google search or consult my books, when "The Two Become One", the Hebrew word is used as plurality describing how a man and woman become "One" flesh.

What have you smoke today ?

My post was only related to the opinion and extreme in these forum... my own meaning, nothing about Google or some Mystic book...

[Markus]

Bruno, my apologies. I actually complimented you on your post. I made my first mistake of many to come and used your name twice. I was referring to someone else about the "One."

Mark

[BC]

OneWeek,

I can't speak for jb, but in my own experience with my wife (her english was about a 7 on a scale of 10 when we met) that it was still quite a hurdle, not only due to simple misunderstandings but differing mentality and intent as well.

Having learned several languages during my life I find it very important to understand the true meaning and thoughts behind words.  Classroom theory will get you to the train station and thourough but brief conversations about weather but that's about it.  It was quite a bit of work for us to really understand what the other was saying.  By the time we married we more or less had it figured out and were communicating two or three layers deep.

Based on this, I pretty much figure that a guy that marries a woman with which he shares no common language will either be extremely lucky or in deep sh!t by the time they truly can communicate.  My thoughts on this subject becoming more concrete the longer I piddle around these boards.

And yes, I have been with a woman that I could not verbally communicate with.. for one night..  It was a physically, but not emotionally satisfying event. Grunts and groans do not good sex make 

Q: TheOneWeekWonder = MarkInTX or did I misunderstand something upthread?

[Markus]

BC,

Yes, little English definitely presents more challenges. But, I can only compare my experience to communicating with AW, which is a different subject (AW) by itself.

I am Mark in Texas, but not the MarkInTx who posted on RWG and maybe on RWD also.

Mark

[jb]

The "He" refers to any person who enters into a relationship with a man or women that he cannot talk to.  The difficulty cuts both ways.  And yes, I've dated women with whom I could not converse, I didn't marry the first and only Russian woman I met.  Smiles and pantomimes will not do the job when trying to communicate beyond "Hello" and "Good by"

[Turboguy]

Sometimes I think RWD is like a big brick wall and that a lot of people pick their side of the wall and start ramming their head into it with frunstration thinking that no matter how much I say the idiot ramming his head into the other side with the opposite view just won't understand that I am right and he is wrong.

Personally I think oneweekwonder made a good point.   How do you know a gal's not knowing English makes it so hard if you have never tried it.   Just because you found it difficult with a girl who had English on a level of 7 does not mean that an FSU women with little English would find it impossible or even more difficult.  They might actually find it easier even if they could not communicate as well.

Personally I think there is too much of a cookie cutter mentality sometimes.  I see a lot of people who talk about AM like the are the left top corner piece of a jig saw puzzle and FSU women like they are the lower right corner piece of a different puzzle.   We are all individuals and the same thing applies to FSU women.  I am very different from Anono and very different in another way from jb.

Personally I believe knowlege of English is one factor that will come into play in a relationship and that a girl not knowing English is just one factor and probably far from the most important factor.  I think if you have two people who really both want to make it work and both are very patient and understanding it will work and it will actually make them closer.   It will be another challenge they conquered in thier efforts to be together.

I think Clyde is a good example of someone who really wants it to work and who has a good girl who feels the same and because of that they will overcome all the problems with language and differences in personalities and culture and succeed.  It may have it moments when they don't see eye to eye but they know they want to be together and they deal with the issues they run into just as an issue that a couple anywere runs into. 

[BC]

Personally I think oneweekwonder made a good point.   How do you know a gal's not knowing English makes it so hard if you have never tried it. 

Turbo,

Personally I don't jump into water unless I know approximately how deep it is.  I can enjoy a circus acrobat jumping from 50 feet into 6 inches of water knowing that he is a very well trained and experienced professional.  The majority of RW smitten guys that are hell bent on jumping into waters of unknown depth, do so with little or no experience, do not accept training from others gone before and even refuse to listen to sound logic and common sense.  How deep the 'waters' actually were will be revealed once they can communicate with their chosen mate. Quite honestly it's not enjoyable and even quite scary watching.

If my wife and I were not able to communicate quite well when we took our vows then we would not be married today.. either by decision prior to marriage or our necks broken after the fact. 

Yeah guys.. go ahead.. jump.  but remember - I didn't say it..




 

[Turboguy]

Ah, so you are agreeing with one week wonder that you have no experience with it to know then   

[Bruno]

Ah, so you are agreeing with one week wonder that you have no experience with it to know then   

If somebody say me that men can fly and say that for test it, i can spring from the roof of building, i will never test it for win some experience !!! It can be my last experience !!!

[KenC]

Ah, so you are agreeing with one week wonder that you have no experience with it to know then   

Actually, Turbo, almost every AM that married a RW has dealt with a language barrier to some degree or another.  Lena was about as proficeint as BC's wife when she arrived here.  I know how difficult it was for us to communicate properly which gave me a good insight into how much more difficult and frustrating it would be to marry a woman that knew less.  And a little less English would not make it just a little more difficult.  The difficulty would increase exponentially.

This alone does not make it an impossible task, just a high risk one.  Which is another factor to consider in all this: the acceptable level of risk.  Some of us do not fancy gambling the future of two people on such a high risk venture.  Of course there are also acceptable levels of communication too.  Some people are satisfied with just the most elementary communications while others want to be able to communicate more deeply and completely.

If it is acceptable to you to marry a woman that can only communicate on a very basic and primitive level if at all, then go for it.  Some day you will know the rest of her story.  I just hope you like what you find when she reaches that point.  With your history of less than stellar successes, I would think you would be looking for ways to decrease your risks not increase them.
KenC

[PeeWee]

Actually, Turbo, almost every AM that married a RW has dealt with a language barrier to some degree or another.  Lena was about as proficeint as BC's wife when she arrived here.  I know how difficult it was for us to communicate properly which gave me a good insight into how much more difficult and frustrating it would be to marry a woman that knew less.  And a little less English would not make it just a little more difficult.  The difficulty would increase exponentially.

This alone does not make it an impossible task, just a high risk one.  Which is another factor to consider in all this: the acceptable level of risk.  Some of us do not fancy gambling the future of two people on such a high risk venture.  Of course there are also acceptable levels of communication too.  Some people are satisfied with just the most elementary communications while others want to be able to communicate more deeply and completely.

If it is acceptable to you to marry a woman that can only communicate on a very basic and primitive level if at all, then go for it.  Some day you will know the rest of her story.  I just hope you like what you find when she reaches that point.  With your history of less than stellar successes, I would think you would be looking for ways to decrease your risks not increase them.
KenC

I agree. You all know the acronym KISS. Keep it simple, Stupid. The more complication you heap upon the relationship them more difficult it becomes. It goes without saying, so I won't say it. But the operative word in my thought would have been "communication". How so important it is for two people to understand one another before they can know one another. And then when the begin to really know one another for them to understand one another. Erect a language barrier, it does not make any sense to me.

We all know that what words mean in English and that those some words are translated different in Russian. Have you ever noticed two Russians converse? It takes them a lot longer to say what we would have said in less time. I would think it difficult for a Russian to learn enough English and to develop a large enough vocabulary to communicate effectively with you will at the sametime trying to learn foreign customs, laws, currency...and everything else plus try to come to know someone well enough so that she can relax for a moment and to collect her thoughts, and wits. Why make that so hard for her? If she can hit the ground running, as they say, meaning that she enters your life speaking your language from the get go then would you not agree that this entire life long process would be much easier for the both of you? I only communicate with RW who speak good to fluent English. So I'm a snob at least I am a smart snob.

Peewee

[Turboguy]

I was not speaking about my own case with my comments about a non English speaking gal.   I just have always felt that it is not a life and death (of the relationship) issue.   I was married to a gal who spoke perfect English.  Even got higher grades in English than I did which does not take a lot anyway.  Still we couldn't communicate.

I just persoanlly believe the motivations and characteristics of the two people are more important than lingusitic ability.    I think if you have lets say a FSU woman who is 38, reasonably pretty, two kids, she knows the guys there are not too interested in anything perminant because of the age and the kids.  She finds a guy who really wants to be with her, to be a good dad to her kids and to try to be a really good husband, and the guys she has found  really thinks she is everything he dreamed of finding.  He is tried of the BS from American woman and he wants more than anything to make a happy life with her and to accept her kids like his own.  In a case like that if they have some patience and understanding and are not hot headed people, the odds of them making it are pretty good, English or no English.   

My point if agreeing with oneweekwonder is that he does have a good point.  Someone who has never tried to make it work with a gal who has no English is not experienced in it.  Just becase someone had struggles with someone who did know a fair amount of English is not experiece in dealing with a situation will little english.  Lots of relationships with AW or RW have their challgenges.   You can't really say that one person's experiences are the same as everyone else in the world will encounter.

I really was not talking about that as "what is right for me"  I was talking in general and it is a choice that is not the same for everyone.   As far as my own situation, sure I want to minimize my risks.  I am not at a point to know if whoever I do find will know a word of English or be very proficient.  Frankly I would prefer to find a gal who does know Engish but I am not looking at that as a major factor.   In the past I have found it difficult to relate to someone when I was talking through a translator.  Even with my former fiancee Luda, the first day we used a terp and I was ready to write her off.  The rest of the trip we communicated on our own and before I left I was hooked. 

[viking]

Turbo

Amen. The poet Maya Angelou once said " love needs no translation"

Each one of us needs/wants/requires something different from another. As for me, being a very extroverted type of personality, I prefer a woman who I can communicate with from the beginning. So when I sought, I looked for a certain level of english capability. This is my preference. It is my comfort zone. I once spent almost a week with someone who could barely comminucate with me and found it difficult and uncomfortable. To someone else this may not be a deal breaker and he could care less.

To each his own.

[Turboguy]

I agree with that Viking.   My point is not so much if speaking English is important so much as that there is no "one size fits all answer"  It might not be right for you.  It might not even be right for me.  I just believe there are people who should not even think about a non English speaking lady and there are others for whom that might be just fine. 

I have met ladies who spoke very little English and yet we had no problem communicating.  I have met ladies who spoke excellent Engish and we could not communicate. 

Besides that with some of these guys such as jb and BC  and Anono where ever he is, it is just sort of fun to disagree with them just to create a little controversy.   I have to agree with oneweekwonder though that the fact BC had a difficult tranition to marriage with his wife makes him an expert on one thing.  His adjustment to his wife and his marriage.  It has little relevance on the chances of a couple with a not English speaking gal.  His advice is his opinion not an opinion of anyone who ever tried it.  I am not saying his advice is not good.  I have seen a lot of good advice from him as I have from jb.  Actually if you think about what BC is saying.  He is actually saying he is an expert because he never tried it.  I really do understand where you are coming from with your advice  BC.   Yes, for a lot of people they should not even think about it.  As far as for me, If I dont feel I can communicate with a gal I doubt that I would enter into a serious relationship with her, of course it might depend on her measurments too

[BC]

Actually if you think about what BC is saying.  He is actually saying he is an expert because he never tried it.

Turbo,

I find it very interesting that married guys like KenC and jb seem to understand my thoughts quite well.

... No, let me rephrase - you should find it interesting.

I have to agree with oneweekwonder though that the fact BC had a difficult tranition to marriage with his wife makes him an expert on one thing.  His adjustment to his wife and his marriage.

If you wish to imply that my experience is irrelevant fine, but if so you must then accept that your statement above is equally irrelevant.  Let's talk about it when you can say 'been there.. done that'

I agree with Ken. You will have a hard time finding a AM/RW couple that will say it was a piece of cake.  Real communication issues can only arise if you can communicate and represented a large portion of the difficulties we encountered.  To put it bluntly it took us a full tank of gas to get us to where we are today.  With 3/4 we would still be stranded somewhere on the highway.

Would you trust an inexperienced proctologist?

[jb]

Turbo,

First of all, you need to understand I don't care 2 cents for who you marry, or even if you ever do marry.  What you do is entirely up to you, I will have no say so in how your future goes at all.  All I can do is give you my own gut response to comments you make here, and I don't even know if you are being totally serious with anything you've ever said.  This is a public board, you can adapt any persona you want to, and I'll never be the wiser.

That's were the YMMV aspect comes into play.

My wife was perfectly fluent in English when I first met her, yet we still had communication missunderstandings.  Those glitches were due to her overall lack of ability to understand what thought pictures I was trying to draw for her because she had no similar experience to relate to.   She had been to the USA twice before, once to Washington DC, and once to Boston.  Both times she was a guest lecturer at universities speaking on the subject of Astrophysics, each time for a week, so you can believe me when I say the girl is one smart lady.   Yet with her limited experience in the USA, she thought south Texas would be exactly like what she had already seen and I was unable to communicate with her sufficiently well to disspell her missunderstandings.  Sentences containing words like desert, cactus, rattlesnakes, drought, scrub brush, grazing land, and other common descriptive phrases had no translated meaning in her mind.  You should remember, everytime you speak a sentence to someone, they understand you based on how much they already know about the subject, not on how big is their vocabulary.  For example, if I were to speak to you, using pretty standard oil field engineering jargon, you might know I was speaking English but you probably wouldn't understand a word of what I was saying about a frac job I wanted to perform on a certain gas well in Duval County, Texas.

If this was a huge problem for us, (we thought it was), imagine how difficult building a relationship will be for two people who can barely exchange a greeting in the morning.  You guys can argue til the cows come home about how it's no big deal not having a common language, but personally,,, I'll never buy it.