Divorce finally final after 3 years and 3 different lawyers for her.

[Misha]

I would bet that there are things in your life I would see as unreasonable and vice versa.

Yes, I am sure there are, but I do try to make important life choices based on what I consider reasonable. I do not always succeed, but I do my best.

[LiveFromUkraine]

The problem is the lack of compromise.  On both sides.  The language debate in their household was a symptom of their bigger issues as a couple, as was his wife needing her mother around.  Hopefully, they will both learn from their mistakes and experience marital success with other partners.

Yeah, I agree.  I can see the position from both sides.  Sometimes it is easier seeing that when you are on the outside looking in.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Yes, I am sure there are, but I do try to make important life choices based on what I consider reasonable. I do not always succeed, but I do my best.

Hopefully we all try to do the best when it comes to that.  I know I have failed from time to time. 

[mies]

in southern California,  there are many mixed language marriages yet it's always assumed that there will be a common language.  it's practical and really should be a non issue. Greg's ex might have been acting in a passive aggressive mode but it really is disrespectful.  at school,  we foreign born or foreign raised,  would speak  in the language we felt comfortable, yet
when we had monolinguals, we would all revert to English out of respect.

 singing a Russian tune to the kids,  or reading a Russian story is not a big deal,  I'm sure Greg feels the same way,  but not reverting back to English,  it is simply being stubborn and disrespectful.  especially after Greg asked.

 with regards to the MIL,  we have a joke in Spanish  that illustrates our opinion of MILs  in general...

como dices suegra en ruso?  how do you say MIL in Russian?
shtorbo.

 which  it's a play on  the Russian sounds and the word, estorbo, or hindrance in English.

Let's wait until you will get married, and suppose you will marry a French woman, and will move to France. And then your wife will tell you that since you live in France, you cannot speak English to your children when she is around, you still can sing tunes to them in English when she doesn't hear it. So when this happens - please come back to this board and report on how do you feel about the need to identify a "common language" in a family.
Also, I suggest you tell your opinion on this matter to all FSU women you are meeting, and especially to one you are considering having sex with. Let's see how it will increase your chances to have sex and foreign wife. 

[Daveman]

Why? Unless a person is deeply paranoid, is it really necessary to translate each and every word? Also, after a number of years, it should be easy enough to understand the key phrases such as "eat your peas [or fill in whatever food here]" or "stop hitting your brother." I for one speak to my baby daughter in French, and my wife does not understand what I am saying. She sees it as a good thing as she wants our daughter to be at minimum trilingual and as we have relatives in Germany, perhaps we can add a bit of German as well to the mix and I won't mind if ever my daughter speaks to distant cousins one day in German and I don't understand each and every word she says.

I remember our family discussions being more in depth than a few sentences. Every night at the dinner table, after the meal (which in those days, consisted of squirrels we had to go out and kill ourselves.. walking into the forest.. barefoot in the snow... uphill... both ways!) there would be story telling, daily topic discussions (everyone brought a topic), etc..  the earliest I remember these were at about age three.  Later on, I continued that tradition with my stepsons.  Granted, most families may not participate in such, but I can imagine that trying to conduct discussions of any depth without using the common language of all would be tedious at best..

[Misha]

but I can imagine that trying to conduct discussions of any depth without using the common language of all would be tedious at best..

Again, is it necessary that everybody participate in each and every discussion? It is possible for multiple conversations to take place at the same time, it is possible for mother to ask one child in Russia how their day went, father listens politely not understanding, and then father asks other child or wife a question and has a discussion in his language.... 

[Boethius]

Again, is it necessary that everybody participate in each and every discussion? It is possible for multiple conversations to take place at the same time, it is possible for mother to ask one child in Russia how their day went, father listens politely not understanding, and then father asks other child or wife a question and has a discussion in his language....

I don't think that is good for family cohesion as kids get older and are in school, for example.  However, it was probably not an issue in Greg's home, given the ages of his kids.

[Misha]

I don't think that is good for family cohesion

Why? Besides, languages can be learned, at the very least, it is possible to gain a passive understanding of the language even if you do not speak it if you put in a bit of effort into it.

[Boethius]

I agree on the passive learning of a language.   However, I grew up in a family much like Dave's, with lively discussions around the kitchen table.  Our kids have as well.  I think when everyone is included in table discussion, it provides a family cohesion that is good for the family functioning as a unit. 

[Misha]

I agree on the passive learning of a language.   However, I grew up in a family much like Dave's, with lively discussions around the kitchen table.  Our kids have as well.  I think when everyone is included in table discussion, it provides a family cohesion that is good for the family functioning as a unit.

Sure, but when you are in a multicultural family, favouring one language above all others means that somebody will be left out. Should grandma be gagged lest she speak some Russian when at the table? Finally, if it becomes taboo to speak one language or another, eventually that language won't ever be spoken in the family and that language will disappear in the household and you will risk having children who only speak the one language.

[Boethius]

No, that is not true, I don't think, and I grew up in a bilingual home.  Meals were always in English.

[YoungBuck]

Let's wait until you will get married, and suppose you will marry a French woman, and will move to France. And then your wife will tell you that since you live in France, you cannot speak English to your children when she is around, you still can sing tunes to them in English when she doesn't hear it. So when this happens - please come back to this board and report on how do you feel about the need to identify a "common language" in a family.
Also, I suggest you tell your opinion on this matter to all FSU women you are meeting, and especially to one you are considering having sex with. Let's see how it will increase your chances to have sex and foreign wife. 

 if I marry a French woman and she asked me this?  cool.
 By the fact that I'm marrying a French woman and moving to France,  means that I am assuming to immerse myself in that culture.
these types of marriages aren't new here in southern California.  why mies, and everyone else so against a common language?  why doesn't anyone view this as rude and disrespectful?

my grandparents don't know English,  only Spanish,  and when our extended family gets together we all revert to Spanish,  even though not all of us were raised in Mexico or predominantly Spanish speaking households.

[GQBlues]

FWIW. I was trying to stay away from this thread but....

My SIL and her hubby moved to Canada about 13+/- years ago. They had a son who was born in Russia and only spoke Russian growing up.

When they both came to our wedding in LA ('05), the kid was about 4-5 then and didn't speak a lick of English despite being in Canada for 2 years already. I mentioned to SIL maybe it's a good idea now they start speaking English with him so he can learn (SIL and hubby's English proficiency at the time were 2-3 on a scale of 1-5) the language considering he'll be in school sooner than later. Additionally, this will also help them with the language themselves.

I still remember what she told me straight-up. He's Russian. We want to him to not forget he is Russian and speaking Russian fluently is our first goal for him.

I didn't say anything more...

When school started, the kid became *unruly* and a *special attention child*. He would fight with other kids (it didn't help the kid is massive - budding football player) and would even be physical with them. Eventually, this kid will always be in a state of anger. Long story short, it was because of language. He didn't understand anyone, and no one understood him. He felt different, an oddity and did what kids do, I suppose, when faced with this scenario. Fear of being 'different' settled in.

That was a tough time for those guys - especially the child. The kid even went as far as running away from the phone when her grandparents and other aunt (who all spoke only Russian) want to speak with him. But not with my wife because my wife would speak English with him.

He seems to be better now although on my wife's recent trip there, she said she can still 'see' some evidence of her nephew shying away from other kids. He only have one or two friends and he's already in his teens.

I'm not making statement one way or another. Maybe I'm not even saying other things may be at play here. I don't know...I'm just thinking maybe 'clear' communication, even at those early ages, is tantamount to how kids learn to interact amongst their peer groups.

[LAman]

GQ, I have heard stories like that for many years about kids.....it could have been the clothes, the accent, the big nose, the color of skin, color of hair, the language,ect. , kids have a way of making fun at anyone 'different' from the group.
I would agree that English should have been learned early on but not shy away from speaking natural language. I know many that spoke one language at home and another in school and never missed a beat. Unfortunately I was brought up in a one language household so the second language nearly died out.

[LiveFromUkraine]

I know many that spoke one language at home and another in school and never missed a beat.

I am struggling to understand how those kids were able to speak English if no English was spoken at home prior to them going to school.

[Boethius]

They will pick it up from television, and from friends.  My daughter had a playmate from Colombia when she was in kindergarten, and she picked up a lot of Spanish.

[LAman]

I am struggling to understand how those kids were able to speak English if no English was spoken at home prior to them going to school.

You were a kid at some point, yes? Did you play outside with other kids???? hint....hint....

[LiveFromUkraine]

They will pick it up from television, and from friends.  My daughter had a playmate from Colombia when she was in kindergarten, and she picked up a lot of Spanish.

I understand kids are sponges but would that be enough exposure to start school and not be held at a disadvantage like in GQ's story? 

[Boethius]

For most kids, yes.  Particularly somewhere like Toronto, where over 1/3 of kids enter school with no English.


I suspect there were other factors at play here.  Toronto's public education is abysmal.  Anyone who can afford it sends their children to private schools.  It could have been the school, and how it dealt with bullies.  It could have partly been the child's personality and his coping mechanisms.  There are just lots of factors at play.

[LiveFromUkraine]

You were a kid at some point, yes? Did you play outside with other kids???? hint....hint....

Sadly everyone I played with only spoke English along with my parents.   I find the whole subject fascinating.


I have always wanted to learn a new language and started doing so recently.  I can see kids being relaxed and mimicking things until they are ingrained while adults try to force learn by memorizing.  I know for me, to truly learn something, takes time for my old brain to sink in and comprehend. 

[SANDRO43]

I know for me, to truly learn something, takes time for my old brain to sink in and comprehend.

I'll repeat a suggestion I often made here: get hold of some reading material in your target language that covers a subject you're interested in and knowledgeable about, be it arthropods, nuclear reactors, ancient swords, or whatever.

Interest will provide a stimulus to struggle on, and prior knowledge will help you guess the meaning of words in a familiar context without recurring to a dictionary too often .

In the meantime, you will absorb a lot without realising it.

[LiveFromUkraine]

I'll repeat a suggestion I often made here: get hold of some reading material in your target language that covers a subject you're interested in and knowledgeable about, be it arthropods, nuclear reactors, ancient swords, or whatever.

Interest will provide a stimulus to struggle on, and prior knowledge will help you guess the meaning of words in a familiar context without recurring to a dictionary too often .

In the meantime, you will absorb a lot without realising it.

Great idea and preferable to Spanish soap operas.  haha 


Right now, I am trying out  Michael Thomas training material.  He promotes being relaxed and not trying to memorize.  I need to spend more time doing it but I am enjoying the process.


In college, I developed a strategy I would use to learn my class material more effectively.  I am hoping to do the same with languages. 

[Daveman]

In college, I developed a strategy I would use to learn my class material more effectively.  I am hoping to do the same with languages.

Me too. I called it the Four C's..


Cut Classes Carefully and proceed with extreme Cannabis...  certainly that could somehow be adapted to languages...

[SANDRO43]

preferable to Spanish soap operas.

Those would help with the phonetics, though .

[LiveFromUkraine]

Me too. I called it the Four C's..


Cut Classes Carefully and proceed with extreme Cannabis...  certainly that could somehow be adapted to languages...

I was thinking about drinking a few beers to get in more relaxed mood for maximum language learning.  I was a little afraid I would end up breaking into conversational Esperanto every time I went to the bar without realizing.