Divorce finally final after 3 years and 3 different lawyers for her.

[pokerintherear]

If you understand that, why do you verbally attack her with provocative questions? Starting an argument for the sake of the argument?
She never said she doesn't want/plan to learn foreign language, she said her children would know/speak Russian (not necessarily ONLY Russian).

What a crock. I was not attacking her with a question. Your mind can twist anything into a negative.

Elena is a woman who is looking for a potential husband from a foreign country. I thought it would be interesting for her to give an opinion on how she sees the situation in her mind. This would most likely be what she expects if she moves to different country.

Hopefully the men who read and not post can see the situation of language. They can differentiate between silliness and common sense.

[mies]

What a crock. I was not attacking her with a question. Your mind can twist anything into a negative.

Elena is a woman who is looking for a potential husband from a foreign country. I thought it would be interesting for her to give an opinion on how she sees the situation in her mind.
If you marry foreign man and most likely move to his home country how do you assimilate into the community without learning the language of the country you moved to?
This would most likely be what she expects if she moves to different country.

Hopefully the men who read and not post can see the situation of language. They can differentiate between silliness and common sense.

I'm just reading your question in which you intentionally put Elena in a defensive position where she would need to explain herself and explain that she didn't mean what you are implying she meant and so on, although she never hinted or said that she isn't planning on learning local language. Do you have some sort of humanities degree, by any chance? Узнаю брата Колю.

[GregfromGa]

Unless I have a faulty memory here, previous threads of Greg's stated that he wanted his wife to teach his kids English. She, IMO understandably, was only talking Russian to them while Greg wasn't there. When ask why he wasn't teaching them English himself, he said he wasn't there enough because of work. So all this around the mulberry argumentation about what's the best multilingual methodology for a family is by the by in his case if you ask me. He wanted it to be his way (English exclusively as "it's what they speak in this country") or the highway. Turned out, the highway is what it was.


If he'd read around, just a little, or even listened to what people told him here, he would understand that, long term, English would never be a problem - we even have Russian couples (RM+RW) living in Norway that complain that their kids aren't keeping up with their Russian language skills as they insist on speaking the language of their peer group which is Norwegian. And that's with both parents speaking Russian exclusively at home.


Greg made something into a relationship threatening contentious issue which never needed to be. Much of the bollocks he's spinning in this thread is just to garner sympathy and bears little resemblance to what he's posted previously.

Ade let me break it down for you one last time idiot. For some reason you keep reverting back to I was never at home. Like I have told your dumb ass on more than one occasion I was always home. I might have not been home 3 or 4 nights in our entire marriage and her mom would've been here. I never left them alone. I don't know what else to tell you. You say I'm trying to get sympathy,WTF? from who ? I don't know you people well I do know a couple but I could certainly not gives a rats ass what you think. You always have a big opinion regarding this and I don't get it. It's pretty easy really, no one cares what you think. You obviously don't know what is going on here or what ever went on. I don't know what anyone may or may not learn from my experience but I promise you that you are certainly not the respected voice of reason on this site. You want to be, but you are not son.

[GregfromGa]

Are you generally happier?  I mean in life?

You misunderstood me re your MIL. It is not about your reaction to her, but rather, that your wife wanted her around for lengthy periods.  That was a symptom, or an indication that she was unhappy. 

Were I to hazard a guess, I think that her young age when you married her was a factor in her unhappiness.  Moving to your turf, in a small town, was also a factor.  Not finishing her education was probably yet another factor.  I would hazard a guess her mother rubbed that in to her, as well. 

IIRC, your MIL is a village teacher.  In general, they tend to think they are better than everyone else, and don't mingle with those they deem "beneath" them.  Not the easiest MIL's, usually.

You know as well as anyone Boethius, I'm probably not your biggest fan here but you hit the nail on the head. My M-I-L thought she was above all here. All Americans were lazy and stupid and we did stupid things and life was much better back in the village. After 30 minutes that got old. After half of my marriage with her in my house it got really old. You hit the nail on the head with your assumption. As far as education was concerned, well I don't know. She wanted to design clothes. Not a big calling for that here. She did open an alteration shop and would make more in some half days than her mom would make in a month as a teacher. We paid for each and everyone of the 18 round trip tickets for her mom and the 4 for her dad. It was expected. I never recall her uttering the words "thank you" for anything. She is with them now. Better them than me.

[calmissile]

Ade let me break it down for you one last time idiot. For some reason you keep reverting back to I was never at home. Like I have told your dumb ass on more than one occasion I was always home. I might have not been home 3 or 4 nights in our entire marriage and her mom would've been here. I never left them alone. I don't know what else to tell you. You say I'm trying to get sympathy,WTF? from who ? I don't know you people well I do know a couple but I could certainly not gives a rats ass what you think. You always have a big opinion regarding this and I don't get it. It's pretty easy really, no one cares what you think. You obviously don't know what is going on here or what ever went on. I don't know what anyone may or may not learn from my experience but I promise you that you are certainly not the respected voice of reason on this site. You want to be, but you are not son.

Greg, your letting Ade get under your skin.  You might want to do what others have done.....put him on ignore.  That's what the button is for.   

[Boethius]

I don't know what anyone may or may not learn from my experience but I promise you that you are certainly not the respected voice of reason on this site.

I respect Ade's perspectives.  I know for a fact others do as well.

I never recall her uttering the words "thank you" for anything.

Why would that be expected of your partner?  A Ukrainian mentality would be that you are one.  There is no need to thank you for what is a normal part of married life.

[Daveman]

I respect Ade's perspectives.  I know for a fact others do as well.


Why would that be expected of your partner?  A Ukrainian mentality would be that you are one.  There is no need to thank you for what is a normal part of married life.

Uhhh, I don't think he's obligated to pay for 18RT tickets for the MIL.  A thank you would have been in order after the first or I simply would not have purchased a second. 

[Daveman]

Anyway, I don't even want to let myself get started on the MIL.. THAT cord should have been cut looooooooooooooooooooooooong ago. 

[calmissile]

Uhhh, I don't think he's obligated to pay for 18RT tickets for the MIL.  A thank you would have been in order after the first or I simply would not have purchased a second.

+1  Agreed.

Also, I don't think the lack of saying 'thank you' is universal of Ukrainians.  Not only did dates say thank you, my wife has done so since we met.

[Boethius]

She worked.  I recall Greg posting she even worked with two babies at home.  So, she also contributed to purchasing those tickets.


The "I" part bothers me.  In a marriage, it is "our" money. 

[Boethius]

Also, I don't think the lack of saying 'thank you' is universal of Ukrainians.

I never stated it was. 

[Daveman]

She worked.  I recall Greg posting she even worked with two babies at home.  So, she also contributed to purchasing those tickets.


The "I" part bothers me.  In a marriage, it is "our" money.

She knew exactly where the money came from... and in any family,  "Our" money does not mean spend on whatever you want.  Besides, I can't recall a single, solitary Ukrainian I've ever dealt with who didn't say thank you. 


The MIL is not part of the family unit.  She's a relative/extended family with absolutely no say as to what goes on or right to have paid travel.  When they married they began their own family -- Husband, Wife, and later children.  They were the family.  If they needed help with the kids, then hire a p/t nanny with that plane ticket money.  A nanny will at least work for you.


So, guys, when dating, check your lady for a still attached umbilical cord.. if it's there.. get away from them -- in a hurry.  Date independent women.   

[Boethius]

I disagree.  The tickets was not taking food out of their mouths.  I see no requirement to thank him for it.   


Did the MIL demand the right to have her travel expenses paid?  We don't know that, so that is a leap. 


I don't think her wanting her mother around was because of an umbilical cord. 

[Daveman]

I disagree.  The tickets was not taking food out of their mouths.  I see no requirement to thank him for it.   

Well, we'll just agree to disagree there.  Has nothing to do with mouths and food.  And of course, there is no requirement for appreciation, just as there is no requirement to purchase plane tickets. 

Did the MIL demand the right to have her travel expenses paid?  We don't know that, so that is a leap. 

I don't think her wanting her mother around was because of an umbilical cord.

True, she may not have demanded it. 


If she wanted her mother to live with them, then yes, she has a condition known as Umblicordis Noncuttum.

[Hammer2722]

If she wanted her mother to live with them, then yes, she has a condition known as Umblicordis Noncuttum.

 

[Misha]

So, guys, when dating, check your lady for a still attached umbilical cord.. if it's there.. get away from them -- in a hurry.  Date independent women.   

I have to agree with you there.

[Boethius]

Well, we'll just agree to disagree there.  Has nothing to do with mouths and food.  And of course, there is no requirement for appreciation, just as there is no requirement to purchase plane tickets.

True, she may not have demanded it. 

If she wanted her mother to live with them, then yes, she has a condition known as Umblicordis Noncuttum.

I see that as a symptom of an unhappy marriage, not an unnatural attachment to her mother.  I suspect moving to Hooterville, with nary a Russian speaker within a half hour drive in any direction, made her feel isolated. 

[Daveman]

I see that as a symptom of an unhappy marriage, not an unnatural attachment to her mother.  I suspect moving to Hooterville, with nary a Russian speaker within a half hour drive in any direction, made her feel isolated.

 


But Sam Drucker could've gotten them anything they needed.


The isolation could/can/will, of course, be a significant problem.


You could be right.  She could have wanted Mama because of an unhappy marriage.  Mama could also have secret soviet mind control technology.  I just can't imagine "I want my mommie to live with us" as being a typical response to marital problems, even to the weird unappreciative brand of Ukrainians who obviously must exist.  I could very well be mistaken in all of this I suppose.


I can understand GQ's idea of putting the parents up in their own place somewhat nearby. 

[ML]

  I suspect moving to Hooterville . . .

Is that where the restaurant chain got started?

[calmissile]

Is that where the restaurant chain got started?

No, I believe it is in Clearwater, Fl    #1

[Boethius]

 


But Sam Drucker could've gotten them anything they needed.

I'm glad someone liked it. 

The isolation could/can/will, of course, be a significant problem.

You could be right.  She could have wanted Mama because of an unhappy marriage.  Mama could also have secret soviet mind control technology.  I just can't imagine "I want my mommie to live with us" as being a typical response to marital problems, even to the weird unappreciative brand of Ukrainians who obviously must exist.  I could very well be mistaken in all of this I suppose.

I can understand GQ's idea of putting the parents up in their own place somewhat nearby.

Her young age likely played a role in using this coping mechanism as well.

[Misha]

You could be right.  She could have wanted Mama because of an unhappy marriage.  Mama could also have secret soviet mind control technology.  I just can't imagine "I want my mommie to live with us" as being a typical response to marital problems, even to the weird unappreciative brand of Ukrainians who obviously must exist.  I could very well be mistaken in all of this I suppose.

It is not really secret and was not limited to the Soviets Some parents are quite adept at making their children dependant on them and you do have a lot of families (there and here) that have their own special issues. The trick is to avoid them and to get to know the family you plan on marrying into long before the vows. However, here too, men will certainly write off all the signs of potential trouble down the road as "cultural" and thus ignore their intuition and good sense.

[Daveman]

I'm glad someone liked it.   

Well, with Ukrainians around, I certainly wouldn't leave Arnold unattended for very long... 

Her young age likely played a role in using this coping mechanism as well.

Possibly. I tend to forget some of the very young ages involved. 


On the flip side -- I don't recall how old she was when they married, but I do think she was rather on the young side.  Plus, they met at a station by chance, IIRC - not a young lady looking to meet a foreigner in the first place.


Even so, It's just very hard for me to fathom I guess.  I know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, if I even hinted that Mama live with us, save for some medical emergency, I'd be spending at least one night at the local shelter to think it through.

[Daveman]

It is not really secret and was not limited to the Soviets Some parents are quite adept at making their children dependant on them and you do have a lot of families (there and here) that have their own special issues. The trick is to avoid them and to get to know the family you plan on marrying into long before the vows. However, here too, men will certainly write off all the signs of potential trouble down the road as "cultural" and thus ignore their intuition and good sense.

That one bears repeating...

[Boethius]

On the flip side -- I don't recall how old she was when they married, but I do think she was rather on the young side.  Plus, they met at a station by chance, IIRC - not a young lady looking to meet a foreigner in the first place.

Even so, It's just very hard for me to fathom I guess.  I know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, if I even hinted that Mama live with us, save for some medical emergency, I'd be spending at least one night at the local shelter to think it through.

She was 19, according to Greg, and had never even held a boy's hand.  Their age gap was not much (13 years, IIRC), but where they were in their lives, and life expectations, were likely profoundly different.  So, I am not surprised she wanted her mother around, because she was probably unhappy.  I suspect her mother, seeing her daughter unhappy, blamed Greg for that unhappiness.  Unfair?  Yes.  But many mothers would react this way. 

Now, WRT MIL's visiting, here's the thing.  I don't believe that a woman who is truly and madly in love with her husband would be affected by what her mother said.  She would either argue, or ignore it.  It's easy to blame outside factors when perhaps those influences just hastened the inevitable.