Black Magic? -- Not this too!

[Journeyman]

I had dinner a couple of weeks ago with a nice lady from Odessa.  She's been in the US about 5 years, and I met her in my city through a mutual friend, another Russian lady we've both known for a number of years.  Anyway, we had an interesting talk that night about a lot of things.  I helped her get a better grasp of certain American things, and she did the same for me about certain things in the FSU. 

I've traveled to the FSU many times, and have a number of Russian acquaintances both here and there.  However, the one turn in the conversation I wasn't prepared for was when she started talking about how often people indulge in the practice (let's say "attempted practice") of black magic in the FSU, and seemingly, in particular, Ukraine.  She went on an on about it for about 30 minutes, describing various circumstances where she's heard it being used, attempted, or considered.  Like most guys who've spent much time over in the FSU, I've encountered a lot of crap in all kinds of ways -- colossal lying, green-card girls, "ladies" attempting to play me for money, etc., etc.  However, this "black magic" stuff is rather sickening. 

My dinner date basically told me to be careful on my future trips to the FSU.  She said the problem is growing, especially among the younger ladies in the FSU, who have taken to it almost like a fad.    I don't talk about things on these boards that I haven't experienced personally or have some first-hand knowledge of, unless it is relayed to me by a reasonably trustworthy native of the FSU.  I'm skeptical about everything and anything regarding the FSU, especially something as kooky as black magic.  I leave for another trip to the FSU in 3 weeks, and I'm not packing any garlic, or wearing a crucifix.  But, I thought I'd share this here, and see if there are any other guys (or RW) here with some reliable sources or personal experiences on this topic, who might have something more to say on it. 

Journeyman



 

[Jet]

I know "fortune telling" is big in my wife's town. She's told me most women have a set of tarot cards and know how to use them. Happily, she's not much into the occult crap.

Maxx's Ex had a whole black magic shrine set up in their walk-in closet during the time they were living in the apartment together, so I don't doubt your friend's claim.

[Turboguy]

I had never heard anything about it.  When I make my next trip in a month I will have to ask.    I did know they were pretty good at casting a spell on us.  Makes sense.   Humm,  I thought it was the beauty, the bods and the charm.

[Bruce]

"The evil eye is alive and well.  You must always prepare for it."  LOL!  Unfortunately, superstitions are alive and well in that part of the world.

[bgreed]

There was a young lady that I was writting for a while from Kazan that mentioned a similar growth there.

[RussianGal]

Back in Belarus all we did was: reading the tea-leaves and telling fortunes to one another with the cards (especially during Christmas).
  I personally have not met a person who`d be involved in black magic.
  I know Feng-Shui is becoming more and more popular nowadays there but it is pretty far from magic.. :-)

[PeeWee]

"Black magic" is general. Specifically what was she talking about? Killing chickens? Blood letting? Sacrificing human babies? This sort of thing goes on everywhere in the world and has for centuries.

Peewee

[Maxx]

I am 100% serious when I say this.

If your lady practices witchcraft or black magic I suggest you run from her like she is the Devil herself. The reason? It is a combination of crazy mixed with narcissism and abuse

Remember Gary's ex-wife (they recently divorced. It's final)

From Gary's ex-wife's diary

HIGHER POWERS PROTECT ME, HIGHER POWERS LOVE ME AND  GUIDE ME. THIS IS MY
SCENARIO AND EVERYONE PLAYS  THE PART AND ROLE I GAVE THEM TO PLAY, I AM
COMPLETELY PERFECT, I AM NOT JUDGEABLE, 

DAY BY DAY MY INFLUENCE ON GARY GROWING AND GROWING, ME MYSELF EVERYDAY I BECOME MORE FREE FROM HIM. HE WILL PAY ME WITH PLEASURE AND JOY OR HE WILL BE IN FEAR HORROR

[line]

Here is a letter translated by Elena Garrett (E.G.) of Russian-Detective of Gary's wife's letters to a Russian woman working for the marriage agency. Note "it means that it was meant to be" can only mean that that the scam has "Higher Powers" backing and approval.

[line]

From E. G. about a letter from the marriage agency:

Letter from Ira*****ina is the most interesting piece, Ira tells her not to despair, but to keep working on her goal. Irina also tells her, "I always told you that Gary  - it is just the first step.

Never feel sorry for what you done.  If YOU have done it, it means it was a good thing to do. If you chose Gary, it means that it was meant to be. "

"Your relationship with Gary will last no longer than 2 years. Then your life will change for the best!"



[line]

 

Below is something from another man facing a DV trial in a few weeks

[line]

From Lyle:

Something that really worries me is that Sasha has always presented herself as being a very devout Orthodox Christian. She does lots of things that show her attachment, and I thought until recently, her faith. I would have never believed this of her, partially because I trusted her too much to imagine that she'd do such a thiing, and partially because I wouldn't have ever considered the possibiity that a person with her beliefs and religious practices would ever do such a thing as this. This is a mortal sin, obviously. Do you know if it's common for Russian women who seem to be devoted to the Orthodox church to so fundamentally go against the teachings of the church -- not to mention simple human decency? I'm sure her "faith" will be brought out in the trial, and I honestly don't know how to counter it. This really baffles me, too.
 

[line]

From Maxx:
 
I then mentioned to him that in the FSU it is common for RW to practise the occult and have various religious and political beliefs that run contrary to the teachings of the Orthodox Church. But at the same time be a devote believer and practicing member of that Church. Then switch between one belief to the other and then back again and then do the same with the morals and ethics that these varying beliefs teach.  

[line]

 

From Lyle
 
I've found traces of occult beliefs here, too -- more than just traces. Thanks for your thoughts on the tie-in with religion.
 

[line]

 
The occult's appeal is that it teaches the practiser  that he or she can get special powers to be able to manipulate people and events. Of course this is nonsense but the damage is still done. The occult breeds selfishness/entitlement, manipulation, slyness (got to go hide in a locked closet or room so no one else sees them) and worst of all mental illness. 
 
Keep in mind, mentally ill RW are especially dangerous.  
 
 
Maxx

 

[Nando]

I agree with Maxx. Just run away from her if you can.

My ex-wife like these stuff and also Tarot a lot. I never gave this matter a lot of attention...I was completely WRONG!

She also suffers from bipolar disorder at a very high level, so stay away from these sort of woman

 

[rose]

Moderator, where did you hide spellcheck?:noidea:

[PeeWee]

I agree with Maxx. Just run away from her if you can.

My ex-wife like these stuff and also Tarot a lot. I never gave this matter a lot of attention...I was completely WRONG!

She also suffers from bipolar disorder at a very high level, so stay away from these sort of woman

 

Would the bipolar disorder be a more serious concern than the fascination with Tarot and tea leaves would be? Many people that I know have visited a fortune teller at one time in their lives. Almost everyone I know reads the daily horoscopes. Many people, worldwide, are either mildly aware or do place creadence in astrology. Do not Tarot cards fall into this class?

Black magic, for my definition, would include the casting of spells and curses. The mixing of potions to ward off something unwanted. A sacrifice on an alter of some sort. These latter examples seem more serious than the former to me.

So what is "black magic" by your definition?

Peewee

[Shadow]

If any woman uses magic on you just remind her that whatever you do to others by magic will be done to you 7 times.

Black magic is using magic powers to do harm against others.

[PeeWee]

If any woman uses magic on you just remind her that whatever you do to others by magic will be done to you 7 times.

Black magic is using magic powers to do harm against others.

Therefore one would have to be a witch, wizard, fairy, or something else like that. The tone of the thread lends itself to the notion that black magic is all bad. Voodoo rituals, perhaps, but who could deny the charm of Harry Potter and his pals. Witches practicing black magic to be sure but also loveable children just the same.

So what. The practice of black magic is on the upswing in Eastern Europe. Does that not, by coincidence dovetail with the release of the recent Harry Potter movies? I blame Harry and his pals for inspiring this fad. If I am correct then those who aspire will also be aspiring in a good, rather than an evil, way.

Peewee

[BC]

Such black magic can easily be cured by the powers of a local babushka.  A quick consultation and preparation of 'waters' seems to work from time to time.  Some minor ailiments have disappeared here so I'm not going to argue about something I know nothing about.

Doctors still prescribe placebo every now and then.. so what the heck.

Does make interesting conversation material tho'.

[START2]

whether it be a belief in Magic or just superstition I'm not sure. I was walking with some friends both in Odessa and Chernigov. A bright shiney coin stood out on the sidewalk. I bent down to pick it up and each time was warned do not touch that. Why I asked?....  because it was possible that someone could have cast a curse on that coin and to pick it up the curse would be transfered to me. Two sets of friends in two different cities believed this. Not to say that they practiced this but in their words they weren't willing to take any chances.  Of course any of you that have spent some time in Ukr should know and witnessed many simple superstitions.(ie no whistling in the house).  All of which to me seem like silliness. I am not superstitious and do not believe in any of it. No, I didn't pick up the coin but only in respect for what seemed to me to be genuine concern from my friends.

I don't know much about the black magic scene other than reading about voodoo on occasion in New Orleans/West Indies. It's strong medicine there but in my opinion can only work depending on ones own belief in it. I put my faith in God and leave it at that, however, the Bible warns not to get involved in mysticism, so yes, there probably are powers out there that can influence someone who chooses to open their life to it.

[Daknack]

Bipolar is probably the worse thing. If you think you have a bipolar woman.  Run do not walk.  A bipolar woman in many ways is like a scammer.  The ethics and morals will turn on a dime same as mood.  The difference is with a Bipolar woman it is rarely a focused change, unless there is outside influence.  Outside influences can be very dangerous as they channel and guide that negativity. 

Imagine a woman crying for 3 or 4 hours in a day, and unable to tell you why other than they just feel sad.  Expect this 4 or 5 days out of your week.  Expect one of the most selfish human being imaginable.  Everything in thier lives revolves arouns if they are happy, or sad or what will make them that way.  They have impulsive lives.  Expect huge spending sprees of multiple thousand dollars if shes upset for a few days in an attempt to to get her to feel better.

If they find something that makes them happy, expect it to become a literal obsession.  Whatever makes them happy will consume them (and you by proxy).  While the good periods are the best, they do not make up for the total hell your life will become

If you insist on walking the wild side I recommend dealing with a reformed prostitute or drug addict and never a Bi-polar woman.  Just trust me on this Ive been there and it sucks.

[PeeWee]

Bipolar is probably the worse thing. If you think you have a bipolar woman.  Run do not walk.  A bipolar woman in many ways is like a scammer.  The ethics and morals will turn on a dime same as mood.  The difference is with a Bipolar woman it is rarely a focused change, unless there is outside influence.  Outside influences can be very dangerous as they channel and guide that negativity. 

Imagine a woman crying for 3 or 4 hours in a day, and unable to tell you why other than they just feel sad.  Expect this 4 or 5 days out of your week.  Expect one of the most selfish human being imaginable.  Everything in thier lives revolves arouns if they are happy, or sad or what will make them that way.  They have impulsive lives.  Expect huge spending sprees of multiple thousand dollars if shes upset for a few days in an attempt to to get her to feel better.

If they find something that makes them happy, expect it to become a literal obsession.  Whatever makes them happy will consume them (and you by proxy).  While the good periods are the best, they do not make up for the total hell your life will become

If you insist on walking the wild side I recommend dealing with a reformed prostitute or drug addict and never a Bi-polar woman.  Just trust me on this Ive been there and it sucks.

Mary Kay laterneau is bipolar.  Apparently what made her happy was 12 year old boys.

Peewee

[jb]

Hey, The One Week Wonder,

How can you possibly know if you don't have a bi-polar woman on your hands in just a week?

Most physcological evaluators would tell you a woman who is looking to get outta town fast probably has some kind of problems, either mental or physical, your choice as to which.  How could any man be able to tell if the woman was in the manic stage of normal when he first met her, and not wacked out as per normal for her? 

I think this is what fooled Maxx during his initial courtship.  She was nuts most of the time but was able to maintain manic while he was in town.   Most of the one week wonder failures involves the woman going nuttso within a month or two.  Take your chances, pay your dues. 

Personally, I'd opt for another trip or two to be sure of what I was signing up for when submitting a K-1 application.

[PeeWee]

Hey, The One Week Wonder,

How can you possibly know if you don't have a bi-polar woman on your hands in just a week?

Most physcological evaluators would tell you a woman who is looking to get outta town fast probably has some kind of problems, either mental or physical, your choice as to which.  How could any man be able to tell if the woman was in the manic stage of normal when he first met her, and not wacked out as per normal for her? 

I think this is what fooled Maxx during his initial courtship.  She was nuts most of the time but was able to maintain manic while he was in town.   Most of the one week wonder failures involves the woman going nuttso within a month or two.  Take your chances, pay your dues. 

Personally, I'd opt for another trip or two to be sure of what I was signing up for when submitting a K-1 application.

I think it's a crap shoot no matter what you. If she is not bipolar or other mental problem and has no physical problems, now, then what if you choose the right one but when she gets here she develops cancer or Lupus? Anything can happen no matter how many trips you take and no matter how careful you think you are being. I would think too that a guy who is thinking with his Johnson and not his brain is not going to either notice it or is not going to care about it if the woman is bipolar anyway. You know that the woman is taking as big a risk as the man is in these relationships. Nothing is predictable.

Peewee

[jb]

I think it's a crap shoot no matter what you.

I think you are exactly right.

I would think too that a guy who is thinking with his Johnson and not his brain is not going to either notice it or is not going to care about it if the woman is bipolar anyway

Another bullseye. your logic blows me away.

You know that the woman is taking as big a risk as the man is in these relationships.

Not necessarily, most of these women risk nothing, just 3 months of their time.  If it works out, then they are golden, if not they go back to their home with nothing lost.  I'd prefer a stiffer penality for the GC scammer, but it ain't gonna happen in our lifetime.

Nobody gets out of this world alive, but it would be nice to go out with a friend or two at your side.  Don't count on it being an RW when you check out.

[PeeWee]

You know that the woman is taking as big a risk as the man is in these relationships.

Not necessarily, most of these women risk nothing, just 3 months of their time.  If it works out, then they are golden, if not they go back to their home with nothing lost.  I'd prefer a stiffer penality for the GC scammer, but it ain't gonna happen in our lifetime.

Nobody gets out of this world alive, but it would be nice to go out with a friend or two at your side.  Don't count on it being an RW when you check out.



[/quote]
I suppose the risk depends on whom it is. If she were 23 with little in the way of a job or family then the risk is slight. If she is older, with property, a well paying job that she has had for more than 10 years, a family, meaning that she has establihed herself and would be walking away from family and assests, then she might be giving something up for the hope of love, more so than the hope of a better life.

Peewee

[Journeyman]

When I started this thread, I did not expect it to drift toward the theme of mental health of the ladies.  However, there is a connection, no doubt, and it is, in itself, a very important topic.

After I was traveling to the FSU regularly for a couple of years, and after meeting quite a few ladies (and passing through relationships with a couple), I began to understand better why there would be any significant number of very physically attractive ladies in the FSU who just couldn't find good local men.  Murphy's Laws caught my attention, finally, reminding me that ....... if something seems too good to be true, it probably is just that.  The corollary being ..... if everything seems to be going well, you've obviously overlooked something.
 
Of course, there is a whole range of stories accounting for the population of that group.  Indeed, there were a few pretty ladies who had properly jettisoned a rascal husband.    A few more divorced ladies who seemed to be questionable marriage material themselves (usually very spoiled and lazy), and so, still available.  Quite a number more who were just having fun a my expense, and others who were just plain villains.  But a few were, indeed, not right in the head.  They were hard to spot during my initial forays into the FSU, but after getting my "cross-cultural bearings", I began to spot a few more of these.  

I also got help avoiding others, it seems, from a few local (Russian) agency owners who I got to know well over time.  A couple of times, I asked the agency owners to tell me something about a few of the ladies I had identified as being of interest to me.  I was a little surprised at one point to note that, cumulatively, these agency owners had directed me away from a noticable number of the ladies participating in their agencies.  Some reasons were understandable (e.g., "you don't want her, I think she wants money."), according to the agency owner's caveats.  Other caveats were less clear, but still compelling.  Those might be characterized as, "No, you don't want to meet her, I think she has some problems in her head."  Or, "she is a little strange."

By the way, for those of you who are new to this areana, most agency owners will rarely give you much of that kind of help  unless you REALLY get to know them well, show them that you are a total class-act, and also use enough of their paid services that they feel that they've made enough off of you.  But then, you can get that extra help . . . sometimes.  

Still, sometimes there are a few "slightly askew" ladies who  will get past the agency's screening, and land in your life.    That also happed to me once.  A got involved with a really pretty, and generally nice lady.  However, after 6 months and after my third visit with her, and after seeing a little "un-evenness" in her behavior, she admitted to me that she was on medication.  As she put it, it was because she had problems with "her mood."  

Mental health is, of course, a real medical problem.  And it needs to be addressed seriously, and regarded as a managable problem, if it is actually such.  I think we can agree with that.  However, I'm not too comfortable with the level and brand of medicine practiced still in the FSU.  Moreover, from what I've seen, the public's understanding of the range of psychological pathologies and personality disorders is not nearly as developed as one would hope (nor here, too).

I eventually put that relationship with the lady (who had the "mood problem") into a holding pattern until I could figure out more about it.  How to get a proper diagnosis, and how to get and prove proper treatment?  I dunno.  I sure wouldn't want to take on "a project", and who knows the extent of the problem?  I was lucky to see it early, and to have her admit to it.  That, it seemed, was actually a good sign of her character (of some measure of honesty).

However, again, for those of you who are new to this endeavor, among all the other things to worry about, the possibility of mental illness accounting for ANY peculiar behavior IS very real.  Again, THERE USUALLY IS SOME IMPORTANT REASON THAT THAT STRIKINGLY PRETTY LADY IS AVAILABLE FOR YOU TO MEET.  There is NO substitute for really getting to know any gal you want to get serious about.  Especially if you think you've hit the jackpot with a gorgeous girl -- who also just happens to act a little peculiar at times.  Her mental health might be one such potential problem, and, if so, could easily lead to and be connected to other problematic issues.

Journeyman

Editing with a PS.  I remember sitting at a sports bar back in the 70's with my friends watching the news about all the Cubans who responded to Carter's opening of the door for  refugees.  Remember all the smiles of Cubans who wanted to come and be with us in the US?  It turned out that Castro had emptied his hospitals and prisons of many of his psychopaths and criminally insane.  I don't think the ladies at the FSU agencies are quite like that.  However, again, don't forget to do your due diligence.

[Jooky]

THERE USUALLY IS SOME IMPORTANT REASON THAT THAT STRIKING PRETTY LADY IS AVAILABLE FOR YOU TO MEET.

Wisest words I've read on these forums.

[Daknack]

One of the things about Bi-polar from my personal experiances with it in being married to one (its also genetic so take a good look at how mom acts) is that it is VERY hard to maintain "Normal" behavior for very long if at all.  The most noted and easily recognized issue issue would be the crying bouts.  They will last hours... and will be often.  I figured "hey, cryings a chick thing... this one just does it even more."   Look for obessive behavior this is another key.  Are they fixated on a hobby and do they act like a child if they are unable to engage in said activity?  In the case of my Ex it was dancing (hence my extreme hatred for it) and shopping.  I dont think that Maxx's ex (based on his description) was bi-polar, just a typical garden variety GCG.  Keep in mind, a Bi-polar woman isnt honestly out to get you (at least until someone outside focuses them on being out to get you).  But lack of intent does not make them anymore dangerous.  If anything it makes them more dangerous because they are unpredicable.

[BC]

Jooky,

I have absolutely no experience with agency women.

We met two new EU / RU couples yesterday at an Orthodox Easter gathering.

Brings our group up to a total of 5 couples in this remote corner of the world, none of which met via agencies or i-net dating.

Based on what I've seen I would also agree these are wise words.