Possible to meet a woman with "non english"

[Boethius]

Probably because the apartment is one of her friends so she can make some commission:) Now is the perfect time to do a little checking, ask her where the apartment is, to send you some photos and how much it will cost. Often the apartment will come as part of a package i.e. the apartment/taxi driver/translator and any other goodies they can threw in for a little extra cash:) Of course its not always the case:)

Probably because apartments are nicer for travelers than hotel rooms.  When I can, I always book an apartment or condo when travelling.  It is roomier, I can cooks meals and do laundry, and it often is cheaper, or at least the same price,

The only time I stay in hotels is if I am at a conference and the hotel is attached to the conference, or I am in a city for business and my meetings are all in the city centre.

[calmissile]

Thanks for the encouragement Northkape.

I am scheduled to fly to Ukraine November 27th. Travelling through Istanbul and Kiev. My lady friend has arranged for me to rent an apartment there because she says it will be nicer than a hotel. I am not sure why this is but I am prepared to accede to her suggestions.

I will check into the translate app you mentioned.

There may be many reasons she is suggesting an apartment rather than a hotel, and none of them have to do with her having a financial interest.  IMO it is a wise choice.  I have done both and would pick the apartment choice any time I could.  There are threads here that explain the many reasons why apartments are preferred by many men visiting the FSU.

[steveboy]

Of course its nicer to stay in an apartment than a hotel, and yes often much cheaper! but its pretty easy in the 21st Century to do that from the guys end, and its always best for him to  plan it , rather than letting the women do it. Especially on a first meeting, saves any misunderstandings that can come along:) 
Way to many apartment tricks up their sleeves Im afraid! like you turn up and are told "I booked two apartments, one for me and one for you"
Of course she aint staying at NO apartment! shes at a friends. So in fact it has cost you twice as much and she pocketed 50%, of course you don't know this until you arrive.

Its life! Welcome to Ukraine:) Just saying

[Faux Pas]

Jensen
The apartment is usually the better option for a number of reasons and those as referenced by Boethuis. Also, your lady may not feel comfortable meeting you at a hotel as many women who do are considered or looked upon as a prostitute.

One downside and word of caution, let her find the apartment. Ideally, something close to where she lives (save on travel time and taxis at a minimum). However, you handle the business directly with the landlord. Should your relationship go South at some point, you don't want to be dependent on her to handle your logistical affairs. It could disastrous

[JayH]

Apartments   v  Hotels

This has come up a few times recently  and the pro & cons have been aired.
Personally I prefer to stay in a hotel--I have stayed in apartments also and I would again-after I have seen it and when I would be there for some time(weeks) not days.
Some frequent visitors have stated their preference for an apartment.
In this thread(& others) it has been mentioned about the girl making arrangements and the potential for a scam-- I agree with that --the very fact of putting yourself in someone else's hands like that when it is totally unknown quantity deters me. It is step one in the terp/taxi/dinner/shopping scenario where you as a visitor lose control of your own destiny.
The crux of my point is that is that it is to easy to get locked in to an arrangement  that proves unsatisfactory--and it leaves you raising the questions in your head.
The great benefit of a hotel is the flexibility. I like the idea that there are people around etc A hotel with bars , restaurants,maybe nightclub makes  a meeting place in a public space.The idea that a girl will be seen as a prostitute in that situation is old fashioned nonsense .That attitude could apply anywhere a western guy may meet a girl where there is age disparity.
To make my point clearer--does anyone think it is easier to get a girl to go back to your apartment than to the foyer of a decent hotel after a night out? 

[Faux Pas]

Apartments   v  Hotels

This has come up a few times recently  and the pro & cons have been aired.
Personally I prefer to stay in a hotel--I have stayed in apartments also and I would again-after I have seen it and when I would be there for some time(weeks) not days.
Some frequent visitors have stated their preference for an apartment.
In this thread(& others) it has been mentioned about the girl making arrangements and the potential for a scam-- I agree with that --the very fact of putting yourself in someone else's hands like that when it is totally unknown quantity deters me. It is step one in the terp/taxi/dinner/shopping scenario where you as a visitor lose control of your own destiny.
The crux of my point is that is that it is to easy to get locked in to an arrangement  that proves unsatisfactory--and it leaves you raising the questions in your head.
The great benefit of a hotel is the flexibility. I like the idea that there are people around etc A hotel with bars , restaurants,maybe nightclub makes  a meeting place in a public space.The idea that a girl will be seen as a prostitute in that situation is old fashioned nonsense .That attitude could apply anywhere a western guy may meet a girl where there is age disparity.
To make my point clearer--does anyone think it is easier to get a girl to go back to your apartment than to the foyer of a decent hotel after a night out? 

No, it is not nonsense to a woman that isn't a prostitute. You might not agree with it Jay but it doesn't make your statement any more valid. It is a fact that prostitutes do frequent the business style hotels in the East much more frequently and it creates a stigma. Will an honest woman visit you in a hotel? Quite likely. Will she stay with the night with you in a hotel? Possibly but certainly not as likely. That would probably depend on whether more on, if she can be recognized by someone she knows.

The bigger issue here is, why would you want a woman you have intention of building a relationship with, put in that position to start with? In the West it is not as much of an issue unless the hotel has the notorious reputation. In the East it's quite different. Ignore it if you want. It's no skin off my ass either way. At some point after repeated failure, you may want to question your process.

[JayH]

. At some point after repeated failure, you may want to question your process.

You see this-- that is  an assertion based on 100% ignorance of my circumstances--either now or in the past. Your knowledge about me is zero.
 It is the type of back handed insult that you seek to make your case by some implied insult to me-- with that it should discredit everything you have to say--- it brings into question your judgement on everything.
Reality is--I posted my opinion and the way I see it--from my personal exposure in real life situations.The fact that is not how you see it--is based on what?Trying to win an argument? lol 
Your entire post is based on what-- your opinion?  lol maybe you are another one that seeks to make threads about them--throw in a few disparaging insults to discredit a post to draw a response--laughable. I am really over having to read that type of rubbish thrown in illogically to posts.
Are you another one of these "old" phaffers that were searching in the last century? Or so long ago that the world has moved on so far that your "knowledge" is so far out of date  you cannot adjust?You sure read like it.

[calmissile]

There seems to be a lot of variables in this equation that makes it 'different strokes for different folks'.  It is my experience that women you have never met are reluctant to take a chance on being seen going into an apartment OR hotel to meet a stranger, especially a foreigner.  In spite of all the talk about loose sex among FSUW, there are many women that have high morals and are very concerned of their reputation among their friends and coworkers.

Not mentioned yet in this thread, but covered extensively in others; is the tendency for FSUW to not want their friends to know they are involved at all with a foreigner until after she is comfortable and 'trusts' the guy.  It's a double edged sword.  The guy feels slighted if she does not immediately introduce him to her friends and family, and she risks feeling embarrassed if the relationship goes nowhere (if her friends know about him).  This no doubt plays into her decision whether to meet at a place she might be spotted by someone she knows.

Once you have met and decided to pursue a relationship, I don't think it matters a lot whether it's a hotel or apartment.  It's more a matter of personal choice.  I was happy with apartments in Kiev and Sevastopol but also got by with hotels in other cities that I only wanted to stay a day or so.

[JayH]

Exactly Doug. You raise some of the potential issues that are reality. I was not referencing going to a mans hotel room--but a highly public place.It actually has the effect of giving some anonymity to the meeting.It is not like strolling down the main street of some of the smaller cities.
Before some idiot pipes up--these are very moral girls who know how to behave .

[lordtiberius]

Old fashioned nonsense? 

Well hooray for sluts!   

[Patagonie]

Ok, I've got some questions here...

1. Northkape, great story! What happened?? Next chapter?
4. How long do you know the woman for before feeling comfortable with for paying for English lessons? How do you know they just aren't ripping you off? I don't mind paying, I do mind wasting my time.

For ML:
2. Are you being facetious, or serious?

5. ML, I don't know much about you, but you seem to have a lot of experience here, and I haven't had enough time to read all your posts. Any general knowledge about Ukrainian dating customs to share?

For everyone...
3. After meeting a woman you like, and the two of you decide to you are going to be together. What are the usual cultural customs with women and intimacy? I've heard that Ukrainian women go very slow, even several months pass before sex or serious kissing. Is this true? Or does it just depend on the woman? For example, in the USA, men and women are usually getting pretty intimate by the 3rd or 4th date depending on the couple.
This is not true, they are more conservative in average, you will very rarely have an ONS with an FSU woman. As usual a woman can only have (in average) sex with a man with whom she is totally comfortable.
So sex depends of you attractivness and her personal motivations. But as you and she aim marriage, it is likely that you will not bed her, in average, very quickly.
Several months before serious kissing or sex is stupid, in this case it means RUN, RUN.

6. For me, a 35 yr old White American, what's the acceptable dating range for women in Ukraine? Or does it matter at all? I presume it probably just depends on the maturity of the man and woman? Yes?
Depends of your personal value, if you have low value bring $.

7. Does the general rule of the more beautiful the woman, the more $$$ you need apply in Ukraine? It seems to me that since there are so many beauties over there, the threshold would be a little lower.
Improve your value and your personal qualities and look. You need $ because the complete proscess (dating, marriage, relocating her) is hugely expensive.

Thanks for responses

[northkape]

The question about meeting women with only Russian language is always valid for those searching for an FSU woman.
Based on my recent experiences from this summer, I wanted to show that it can't be easily answered by a "yes" or "no".
It is only one of many factors that on one hand can make your meeting a total fiasco,
and on the other hand give you access to a much larger pool of available women in the same geographical area.
-
Shadow and Gator,
She is a beautiful young woman with a cute little boy a couple of years younger than my own boys.
Like all those I met with, she fits perfectly within a narrow range of search criteria and tops it off with a warm and loving personality.
Also a big plus, was her non jealous and friendly attitude towards Lena on the phone,,
she was the one that asked Lena if she would come along as an interpreter,,,,,
making Lena burst out in laughter and almost falling off her chair...
And yes, we had great chemistry from the moment our eyes met,,, it makes me feel terrible to leave her behind....... 
But there are some traits lacking, that I am afraid I would miss in the years to come,
Somehow I got the feeling that she would be "content" with just a cosy family life,
but without a common language, I have only my intuition to guide me (which almost never failed me throughout my life).
I am weak for the adventurous soul with the ambitions and strength to "conquer the world" on their own terms.
A little less ambitions than those of my two previous relationships is acceptable but I love that high energy adventurous spirit....... 
-
It's been more than a year since we decided to divorce, but Lena is still living here with me most of the time.
She bought her own apartment in central Oslo 1st. of August.
Now on level three of her career plan, moving to a higher level position in the Justice Department this week.
I'm going to Ukraine again first week in December to meet with some new women.
(and maybe two of those I met with this summer) Lena will help me take care of the boys while I'm away...
And yes,, our boys are doing great, they are now understanding what is slowly unfolding in front of them,
but not a single tear shed this far.......

[Shadow]

Northkape thanks for your reply, and I can understand your decision.
Though by the time you settle down and sit alone by the fireplace you might think what would have happened if you made another decision 40 years earlier.

[Faux Pas]

You see this-- that is  an assertion based on 100% ignorance of my circumstances--either now or in the past. Your knowledge about me is zero.
 It is the type of back handed insult that you seek to make your case by some implied insult to me-- with that it should discredit everything you have to say--- it brings into question your judgement on everything.

There is nothing backhanded or implied about it. If the shoe fits, get you some, there's plenty. I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you over something as basic as ethics and consideration of others because you obviously do not have or do neither. Anything I have to say or advice I have given can stand on it's own merit regardless of any attempts by you to smear it. Most folks are intelligent enough to check the sources and success rates of yours or mine.

Reality is--I posted my opinion and the way I see it--from my personal exposure in real life situations.The fact that is not how you see it--is based on what?Trying to win an argument? lol 
Your entire post is based on what-- your opinion?  lol maybe you are another one that seeks to make threads about them--throw in a few disparaging insults to discredit a post to draw a response--laughable. I am really over having to read that type of rubbish thrown in illogically to posts.
Are you another one of these "old" phaffers that were searching in the last century? Or so long ago that the world has moved on so far that your "knowledge" is so far out of date  you cannot adjust?You sure read like it.

Reality assertion coming from someone that doesn't know the difference between shit and apple butter isn't worth much. You can continue to ignore reality Jay but you can't continue to ignore the consequences of ignoring reality. That being the many more trips you'll be making to the FSU.

I will defer to your expertise on scams scammers and hotels. You obviously have a wealth of experience. 

[Flashback]

For everyone...
3. After meeting a woman you like, and the two of you decide to you are going to be together. What are the usual cultural customs with women and intimacy? I've heard that Ukrainian women go very slow, even several months pass before sex or serious kissing. Is this true? Or does it just depend on the woman? For example, in the USA, men and women are usually getting pretty intimate by the 3rd or 4th date depending on the couple.

If you have plenty of $$$$ sex can come very fast.

6. For me, a 35 yr old White American, what's the acceptable dating range for women in Ukraine? Or does it matter at all? I presume it probably just depends on the maturity of the man and woman? Yes?

This can depend as it can in any other country



7. Does the general rule of the more beautiful the woman, the more $$$ you need apply in Ukraine? It seems to me that since there are so many beauties over there, the threshold would be a little lower.

Everyone has a price! if you are looking for a bargain try one of the Ukrainian villages, It sounds like your thinking of "Buying a wife"?

Thanks for responses

I love how you interpret things the way you want. Yes, labeling me by making a suggestion is a great way to condemn me in the eyes of others.


Posted by: Faux Pas
« on: November 13, 2013, 01:18:38 PM »

Great answers, thank you. I appreciate your maturity as compared to others.

Good answers, thank you.

2.  Yes

3,5  I have never pushed intimacy with any woman in FSU.  I just do normal low key things (hold hands, light kisses on cheek, lots of humor and smiling, dancing, singing) and the woman lets me know that she wants to step up the pace.  Several have wanted sex on first date.  More common is 2nd and 3rd dates.  Some have even waited until 6th date.  But we really can't read much into the particular waiting periods . . . because there may be other 'periods' that were influencing.

Also, with some women, they may screw a guy on first date that they really have no continuing interest in, and wait until 6th or later date for a man they have more interest in.  The old idea that man won't think well of you if you screw too soon.

I really don't notice much difference in dating customs in many countries of  the world . . . excepting oriental and muslim countries.

Very interesting. Thank you for your answers, they help tremendously.

[Flashback]

Why is the OP divorcing? 

Relationships are built on trust and communication.  You can do rock, paper, scissors pantomimes like Marceau Marceau but what happens when you found out that your kid is having trouble in school, or you just saw in interesting movie and you want to talk about it, or you are trying to teach your wife how to drive.

If you are going to chat no English ladies, you should speak their language.  This thread though meaningful has more red flags than Uncle Joe birthday party.

And maybe you would like to explain what the hell is an Uncle Joe Birthday Party? I love how you people expect everyone from other places to know your metaphors.

yeah yeah, double post, looks like I got a ticket...

[ML]

I have had tons of FSUW come into various apartments I have rented in several FSU cities.

I have experienced several FSUW get visibly nervous when they meet me in hotel lobbies.  And most have refused to go up to my room, if only for a minute to pick up something.  The speak openly to me about being viewed as a prostitute by the hotel staff.

I remember one gal who was very highly sexed, and would even engage in covert sex activities in public with me; yet she refused to enter the lobby of hotels in Kyiv when I went in to pick up a copy of the Kyiv Post.

[northkape]

Actually Shadow,,,

I'm 58 now,,,,,,,
If I can sit down by the fireplace 40 years from now and wonder about this....
I will be very lucky whatever the consequences derived from my present choices.....

[Slumba]

And maybe you would like to explain what the hell is an Uncle Joe Birthday Party? I love how you people expect everyone from other places to know your metaphors.

yeah yeah, double post, looks like I got a ticket...

Stalin was called "Uncle Joe" - it is not a metaphor, just history.  You know that the Commnist flag was 95% red in color, yes?

[JayH]

There is nothing backhanded or implied about it. If the shoe fits, get you some, there's plenty. I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you over something as basic as ethics and consideration of others because you obviously do not have or do neither. Anything I have to say or advice I have given can stand on it's own merit regardless of any attempts by you to smear it. Most folks are intelligent enough to check the sources and success rates of yours or mine.

Reality assertion coming from someone that doesn't know the difference between shit and apple butter isn't worth much. You can continue to ignore reality Jay but you can't continue to ignore the consequences of ignoring reality. That being the many more trips you'll be making to the FSU.

I will defer to your expertise on scams scammers and hotels. You obviously have a wealth of experience.

"You to smear it"----- that is priceless coming from you in the context that it was exactly your attempt to do that to me that prompted my response to you.
In the post above-- you go on with the attempted insults and denigration of my comments.
As I said--you do not have a clue about my circumstances-- so why make that attempt to belittle me?

If you wish to read a contrary opinion--read ML--it is the 2nd time in a couple of threads that he offers a different OPINION-- no insults,no attempt to belittle,no baiting,no attempt to tell me what my situation is-- that is a reasonable post made.You need to grow up with you postings-- not just to me in general.

[JayH]

I have had tons of FSUW come into various apartments I have rented in several FSU cities.

I have experienced several FSUW get visibly nervous when they meet me in hotel lobbies.  And most have refused to go up to my room, if only for a minute to pick up something.  The speak openly to me about being viewed as a prostitute by the hotel staff.

I remember one gal who was very highly sexed, and would even engage in covert sex activities in public with me; yet she refused to enter the lobby of hotels in Kyiv when I went in to pick up a copy of the Kyiv Post.

I can say I also saw  a concern from some girls--but it disapated very quickly. I need to make the point--it was not like the idea was to go straight to my room--simply a public place meeting-nothing more.
I actually think that part of the attitude goes back to the Soviet era  where each floor of hotels had a dezhurnaya  ( floor manager)  to ensue you were not sneaking an extra person into your room.There are still hotels around like that-although I think these days it is more the centre of the hotel maids supervision.Often a matronly stern faced woman om station next to the lift( elevator) entrance to the floor--I wonder if a few of you guys have not been intimidated by this !! lol

[Boethius]

I actually think that part of the attitude goes back to the Soviet era  where each floor of hotels had a dezhurnaya  ( floor manager)  to ensue you were not sneaking an extra person into your room

No, they were there to keep tabs on guests.

[Chicagoguy]

Those floor ladies were not the most pleasant of persons. IMHO

[TomT]

No, it is not nonsense to a woman that isn't a prostitute. You might not agree with it Jay but it doesn't make your statement any more valid. It is a fact that prostitutes do frequent the business style hotels in the East much more frequently and it creates a stigma. Will an honest woman visit you in a hotel? Quite likely. Will she stay with the night with you in a hotel? Possibly but certainly not as likely. That would probably depend on whether more on, if she can be recognized by someone she knows.

The bigger issue here is, why would you want a woman you have intention of building a relationship with, put in that position to start with? In the West it is not as much of an issue unless the hotel has the notorious reputation. In the East it's quite different. Ignore it if you want. It's no skin off my ass either way. At some point after repeated failure, you may want to question your process.

This was an accurate assessment of the situation ten years ago, five years ago and remains accurate today.

[Faux Pas]

This was an accurate assessment of the situation ten years ago, five years ago and remains accurate today.

No, no, no, dammit! Us old married bastards that still travel the FSU can't possibly be as in tune to the pulse of women there we know, as much as a habitual abysmal failure MOB'er/wife hunter/sextourist. (just so all the bases are covered) There is no way we can possibly know what the on the ground situation is. Being there, married to the women that these "experts" are seeking, living the life they seek, offers no insight whatsoever. I should just resign my forum membership now and declare all my advice as unworthy and inconsequential. I bow to Jay's who to date, has achieved all his dreams