Saved by Mila

[JayH]

The prodater I met took me shopping in Kiev..first for a designer handbag and when that didn't work..for a fur coat .

What? No boots? Must have been summer!!

[fathertime]

Interesting discussion...


I think the blame should be divvied out as follows:


Baffin:  100%
Woman: 100%


it may be hard to imagine a guy passing over all those red flags...but you know a lot of guys don't really get things right away, and haven't read the forums....Man, I would have smiled at her if she pointed and asked for something expensive during that 1st or 2nd date....I know this because It happened to me too...and the girl was gorgeous...It was weird actually she wanted some very expensive eyeglasses...and she didn't have a vision problem...I later concluded she just wanted to return them for the money back...I just smirked and we moved right along...She must have decided I wasn't an easy mark because we never went out again after that night...Ultimately I had some intuitive knowledge and I had also read the forums and knew what to expect and how to handle it...


If Baffin learns his lesson from this, that would be nice...the woman's number may very well come up some day, and she might wind up assaulted or something, if she keeps putting herself out there like that....


Fathertime! 

[Daveman]

No-- I am not. dot dot dot    dot dot dot-- I said--it is  as in-"blame" the victim for the crime.That is something that happens in rape case eg- she was asking for it because she dressed in such an such a way  . Clearly a nonsense-- as is  blaming the guy for what was in effect-- a scam.

Okay, my bad... You were not comparing the acts, but rather the reactions.. I'll step back into my obliviousness..

[JayH]

Interesting discussion...


I think the blame should be divvied out as follows:


Baffin:  100%
Woman: 100%


it may be hard to imagine a guy passing over all those red flags...but you know a lot of guys don't really get things right away, and haven't read the forums....Man, I would have smiled at her if she pointed and asked for something expensive during that 1st or 2nd date....I know this because It happened to me too...and the girl was gorgeous...It was weird actually she wanted some very expensive eyeglasses...and she didn't have a vision problem...I later concluded she just wanted to return them for the money back...I just smirked and we moved right along...She must have decided I wasn't an easy mark because we never went out again after that night...Ultimately I had some intuitive knowledge and I had also read the forums and knew what to expect and how to handle it...


If Baffin learns his lesson from this, that would be nice...the woman's number may very well come up some day, and she might wind up assaulted or something, if she keeps putting herself out there like that....


Fathertime!

I can tell you that  even when being well aware,knowing exactly what is going on-- it is not so easy to handle these type of situations. Certainly not easy for a guy not very familiar with the ground.
Once a decision is made to meet a girl- it can very easily be swept out of a guys hands. eg  you make arrangement to travel across the world to meet a girl -very late in the piece -- you discover the agency wants a fee,they have arranged a terp,they have arranged  place to eat,they have arranged to collect you in a taxi!  If you acquiesced and went along with that-- next date-- shopping!!
Here on the forum-- all the wise heads are saying-- guys are utter fools to go along with this--and yes in retrospect they will agree -I am in no doubt about that.

[LiveFromUkraine]

I can tell you that  even when being well aware,knowing exactly what is going on-- it is not so easy to handle these type of situations. Certainly not easy for a guy not very familiar with the ground.
Once a decision is made to meet a girl- it can very easily be swept out of a guys hands. eg  you make arrangement to travel across the world to meet a girl -very late in the piece -- you discover the agency wants a fee,they have arranged a terp,they have arranged  place to eat,they have arranged to collect you in a taxi!  If you acquiesced and went along with that-- next date-- shopping!!
Here on the forum-- all the wise heads are saying-- guys are utter fools to go along with this--and yes in retrospect they will agree -I am in no doubt about that.

Jay, you talk like you want a friendlier forum where people feel more comfortable posting yet you make some passive aggressive posts including calling us wise heads or whatever that means.


Maybe you should take a step back because it seems you can't make an argument without resorting to childish name calling.

[JayH]

Maybe you should take a step back because it seems you can't make an argument without resorting to childish name calling.

MMMMM !!  Wise = knowledgeable!!  Not as in wiseguys -- although in this case I could have perhaps used it!! The way I used the word was being sarcastic-yes, insulting-no.

Calling a collective bunch a group of " forum fools"(in other places) is  a collective name for a specific group of people here on the forum-- and as I posted previously as to  who else was included-I will not repeat . Of course -- as I nearly posted earlier in another thread--if the cap fits.

[LiveFromUkraine]

MMMMM !!  Wise = knowledgeable!!  Not as in wiseguys -- although in this case I could have perhaps used it!! The way I used the word was being sarcastic-yes, insulting-no.

Calling a collective bunch a group of " forum fools"(in other places) is  a collective name for a specific group of people her on the forum-- and as I posted previously who else was included-I will not repeat . Of course -- as I nearly posted earlier in another thread--if the cap fits.

I could care less if I am in some sort of group or not.  It is irrelevant to me.  What I do think is if you're going to whine about name calling and unwarranted attacks, you shouldn't be doing it yourself.

[Baffin]

 

Let's clarify a few things. I didn't lose $50k. It's not because she asked something that she got it. (how would I have learned her reaction when she didn't get what she wanted?) With my money, I don't play at casino what I can't afford to lose. It's more about the feeling of being scammed than money. (plus the lost opportunities to meet other prospects)

Yup, I have my share of the blame as I knew it was wrong but somehow didn't correct the situation right away. Which I'm the first surprised when I think about it. I read this forum so many times and said so many times I'd never et caught. Guess what, they said that the Titanic was unsinkable too.

As for Miss T and any golddigger/prodater/scammer: Using lies, deceipt, manipulation and whatever. It's not because something is legal that it is moral. Abusing other in any form is bad. End of story. I actually compare the art of scamming to the art of pickpocketing. The mean differs, but the goal is the same. Take the money before the victim realize what happened. What she got from me, no, she didn't put a gun on my head, doesn't mean she didn't use cunning tricks to manipulate my mind.

Best I could do later was to expose her as much as possible. She'll have to work harder.

Fauxpas: You're partly right, but nope, the pooning wasn't even worth it.   

And finally, I'm incorrigible. The "local" girl was born and raised in Russia  Her parents moved here a few years ago and she came along. I just met and started dating her not long ago. No clue how it will go. (so far, not hard to beat miss T  ) If it doesn't work, I'm most likely to try again in the FSU (incorrigible I said  At least, I'm smarter now.  )

[Anotherkiwi]

I think a lot of guys that go over are not very socially experienced.  That is like lambs to the slaughter.  Luckily there are forums like this and guys like you to help them out.  They are better off hearing the uncomfortable truth here than experiencing it over there.

Interesting discussion...

it may be hard to imagine a guy passing over all those red flags...but you know a lot of guys don't really get things right away, and haven't read the forums....Ultimately I had some intuitive knowledge and I had also read the forums and knew what to expect and how to handle it...


If Baffin learns his lesson from this, that would be nice

I think that you two have it in a nutshell - the forums such as this are an invaluable resource, and people can learn an incredible amount.    For me, it's been unreal just how much I've picked up over these last few years.  Obviously I don't agree with all of it, but I think I've learnt enough to keep very safe.

However, many (if not most) people lured in by (for example) Anastasia have no idea that these forums exist, or find them only after a trip (like me) or after they've been scammed out of money before they ever travel.  And, of course, there are the complete idiots who find a forum like this, read what everyone has to say, declare (or think to themselves) that they're different and it won't happen to them - and it does anyway. 

P.S. just seen Baffin's latest post - classic! 

[JayH]

. I actually compare the art of scamming to the art of pickpocketing. The mean differs, but the goal is the same. Take the money before the victim realize what happened.

Now I am waiting for some of the guys to argue that in the process of getting your pocket picked  your privates got brushed that you got your monies worth!!

[JayH]

Let's clarify a few things. I didn't lose $50k. It's not because she asked something that she got it. (how would I have learned her reaction when she didn't get what she wanted?) With my money, I don't play at casino what I can't afford to lose. It's more about the feeling of being scammed than money. (plus the lost opportunities to meet other prospects)

I consider the monetary cost is minor compared to the time invested-- add that to the emotional energy wasted  and that is the real loss.

[sleepycat]

I thought my original thread was dead & buried and within a day it had grown by two pages!
Imagine my surprise yesterday when I received a PM from Baffin with a photo of a woman and he asked me if that was the pro dater that I was talking about in my original post.

Finally, another forum member can corroborate on my story. Now I distinctly remembered a certain poster here who accused me of blindly chasing after a woman who shows no interest; when the truth of the matter is I was being taken for a ride by a pro dater.

Come to think of it, I have also experienced a couple of the red flags mentioned by Baffin. e.g. she mentioning that she just had her wallet stolen (probably to get me to volunteer to give her some cash), and her short sugar-coated emails/texts.

In a way I was luckier than Baffin in that I was fleeced for a lot less than he was. During my first trip I only had two dinner dates with her, and in my second trip after she picked me up from the airport at night she then disappeared for the next 1.5 days (which I become concerned about and caused me to contact Mila who revealed to me that she was a scammer). So she didn't end up having enough time to fleece me like she did with Baffin. I hate to imagine what would have happened if she had taken me out to go 'shopping'. All up I probably only ended up wasting a couple of hundred bucks worth of gifts on her, so the damage to me is small.

Once again, a big  to Baffin for indirectly warning me about this woman. And if you ever find yourself in Australia then needless to say the beers are on me!

[Anotherkiwi]

And if you ever find yourself in Australia then needless to say the beers are on me!

The forum members thank you from the bottom of their wallets...oh, you only mean Baffin? 

[southernX]

again it all comes back to how blokes get started in this adventure , what effort they put into research or fact finding , actually getting clued up before you venture any further into the process

however fact is  many get some sort of false unrealistic impression of what is reality , and start lookinG at profiles[pictures ]way to soon and then get sucked further down fantasy land

if something seems to good to be true it usually is , keep your expectations real !!!!!
daveman made the point about dating the same as you usually would , no matter which country you are in , totally agree with him,

baffin , realised he stuffed up , hes worn the tomatoes , he made the choices he did freely , he got emotionally hooked up with his own unrealsitic expectations , even when his gut instinct told him it was probably not right ,
trouble is acting on your gut instinct is usualy the correct  thing to do , in the moment howvever in close proximity to a woman you have and are intimate with it is sometimes difficult to follow through in action that which your gut instinct is advising you to do


not being his first trip there im surprised it took him so long , but he admits he didnt lose his shirt in the experience , he has shared here, so it might help some  others again to learn the lesson

who hasnt ever been put on the spot and given into something even when it goes against the grain to do it ??
yep , pretty much all of us at some point in time

these girls like miss T would not try to have you spend money on them if guys stopped doing it , & from her point of view , if you had sex,she escorted you around her city , etc  it is  possibly a fair trade off

im sure looking back on it baffin you can now see she was never serious about you ,  however you didnt really pay due dilligenc to it as you where ''mesmerised ''so to speak with the newness , unreality of the situation you found yourself in

no offense to you by the way , it does make a good lesson for others to pick up though

SX

[Faux Pas]

Let's clarify a few things. I didn't lose $50k. It's not because she asked something that she got it. (how would I have learned her reaction when she didn't get what she wanted?) With my money, I don't play at casino what I can't afford to lose. It's more about the feeling of being scammed than money. (plus the lost opportunities to meet other prospects)

Yup, I have my share of the blame as I knew it was wrong but somehow didn't correct the situation right away. Which I'm the first surprised when I think about it. I read this forum so many times and said so many times I'd never et caught. Guess what, they said that the Titanic was unsinkable too.

As for Miss T and any golddigger/prodater/scammer: Using lies, deceipt, manipulation and whatever. It's not because something is legal that it is moral. Abusing other in any form is bad. End of story. I actually compare the art of scamming to the art of pickpocketing. The mean differs, but the goal is the same. Take the money before the victim realize what happened. What she got from me, no, she didn't put a gun on my head, doesn't mean she didn't use cunning tricks to manipulate my mind.

Best I could do later was to expose her as much as possible. She'll have to work harder.

Fauxpas: You're partly right, but nope, the pooning wasn't even worth it.   

And finally, I'm incorrigible. The "local" girl was born and raised in Russia  Her parents moved here a few years ago and she came along. I just met and started dating her not long ago. No clue how it will go. (so far, not hard to beat miss T  ) If it doesn't work, I'm most likely to try again in the FSU (incorrigible I said  At least, I'm smarter now.  )

Baffin, I can feel for you and the million or so others guys that have succumbed to the charms and cleavage of a prodater but, I offer no sympathy. Personally I equate it to more of a buyers remorse than anyone being scammed. Perhaps one of the games at the county fair where the man tells you you can win the big stuffed bear for a buck. $150 bucks  and 25 bad choices later you finally walk away with a goldfish. The Carnie didn't scam you. You bought something you didn't want and paid way to much for it.

Every one of those choices belong to the man in question. Not the woman, no matter what temptation she used. She didn't make the decision to spend his money. He owns that. The victim mentality, gimme someone to blame junkies on the forum will try to convince you otherwise. Beware

[Daveman]

I actually compare the art of scamming to the art of pickpocketing.

Well, if in the act of being pocket picked your privates got brushed then it's obvious you got your money's worth!!

Man, I can't believe this guy...

[Gator]

Now I distinctly remembered a certain poster here who accused me of blindly chasing after a woman who shows no interest; when the truth of the matter is I was being taken for a ride by a pro dater.

That particular poster subscribes to the premise that men who pursue FSUW via MOB agencies are social rejects, old, and/or fat.  I will skip the rest of his song and simply state it boils down to FSUW can do no wrong and men can do no right.  Some others align up with him and deem you men as exploiters, morons and whatever else is left in the bag of insults.


 

     During my first trip I only had two dinner dates with her, and in my second trip after she picked me up from the airport at night she then disappeared for the next 1.5 days (which I become concerned about and caused me to contact Mila who revealed to me that she was a scammer). So she didn't end up having enough time to fleece me like she did with Baffin.     

MissT is smart.  She probably realized you were not a high roller and concentrated her energy on another man in town.   

[Gator]

Baffin,

Some here are not reading carefully your posts.     You never came here seeking sympathy.  In fact, you seem to be a real man about it by taking your share of the blame.

Your analogy to pickpockets caught my eye because I had my wallet picked on the metro, yet I was never scammed.   I take blame for not being careful with my money, yet the bastard who took it is a petty criminal, as is the bitch MissT.  A pox on both of them.

[Stirlitz]

I fail to understand why men are so easlily hooked up with the scammers.

That’s because men have two heads. When it comes to women they have a hard time deciding which one to use to think. While they try to decide, scammers waste no time and take advantage of them.
Disclaimer: no offence to the topic starter was meant. Just general discourse — trying to look wise

[sleepycat]

Sorry for reviving an old thread, but as I am going back to Kharkov soon I was looking at profiles from dating sites from that city and I found the profile of that scam woman that Baffin and I were referring to in this thread.

http://www.kharkovmarriageagency.com/ladies-gallery-39
http://www.ma-dame.net/__profile__code_2075.php?sid=1399269416&p=1

So it looks like after Baffin got her booted from those dating sites, she relisted herself to try to get back to business as usual.
To fellow forum members who might be visiting Kharkov in the near future (not that there will be many giving the current political climate), just a warning about this scam woman. If you ever cross paths with her, quickly run and dive for cover...

[BillyB]

http://www.kharkovmarriageagency.com/ladies-gallery-39
http://www.ma-dame.net/__profile__code_2075.php?sid=1399269416&p=1

So it looks like after Baffin got her booted from those dating sites, she relisted herself to try to get back to business as usual.

Was the lady listed at those sites before getting booted? If so, then those agencies have a practice of temporarily removing a lady only to relist her later. Scam women aren't the only things a guy has to beware of if the organization he depends on wants to bleed his wallet dry.

[LAman]

Here is another I have seen Tanya in:

http://www.web-brides.com/lady.php?id=1869

I have seen her profile different times over last few years but always had suspicions.

[Manny]

Sleepycat, how old are you and do you regularly date women of that age and calibre at home?

[Gator]

Sleepycat, how old are you and do you regularly date women of that age and calibre at home?

Bollocks! 

If blokes could regularly date women of "that age and caliber at home" they never would go to the FSU.  There would not be a RWD or a RUA.   

Your use of "caliber" I suppose is limited to her physical attributes.  Sleepycat and Baffin verified that Tanya's values and character were low.   Just because Tanya may be better looking than sleepycat's Shirley does not justify Tanya scamming sleepycat and wasting his time.   

[Gator]

One caveat.  IIRC, it was not apparent form their posts how thorough sleepycat and Baffin vetted Tanya.  Men who do not spend much time in communicating with FSUW and instead fantasize over a photo may very well be chasing a fugazi.