Birth of a Nation

[Muzh]

You can tell she read a lot of Hemingway. Still, very emotive.
 
  No amount of live video feeds or news stories can convey the essence of EuroMaidan.
 
The Dec. 11 massive attack by Berkut riot-control police, for example, took people by surprise. Although there was an alert from the leaders of the political opposition that there would be a police raid at 1 a.m., people simply dismissed as ludicrous the idea that a raid would happen that night.
 
After all, European Union foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton and U.S. Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland were in town and President Viktor Yanukovych assured them and other world leaders that no force would be used.
 
I left Maidan around 1 a.m., with no visible signs of an imminent attack, and with just a few handfuls of protesters shivering near the stage. I rushed back to find it completely transformed in a matter of 15 minutes after receiving a tip-off that Berkut is advancing.
 
People by the main stage on Maidan Nezalezhnosti now looked scared, not cold. Thousands of riot police troopers approached two barricades, faces masked and black helmets bobbing like a grotesque mutant living sea [monster]. Their loudspeakers were playing the same pre-recorded message over and over and over again: this is an Interior Ministry warning. We respect your right for a peaceful demonstration, but if you see any provocateurs armed with sticks, chains and such, please inform the police.
 
On stage, Ruslana, the singer and 2004 Eurovision winner, repeated another message time and again: we're a peaceful demonstration, remain calm and do not succumb to provocations. Submit to all demands of the Berkut, but stand strong in defense of your rights. The two messages drowned each other out, turning the scene into a cynical symbol of the state and the people being unable to hear each other.
 
Women were approached by activists and asked kindly, but persistently, to move closer to the stage. Men encircled them for protection in a touching gesture that had no air of pretense. There were only a few hundred men to defend the barricades, which had been ambitiously built all around EuroMaidan. But a cry for help went out already through every channel- from stage, live television feeds, all social networks and every phone in the crowd.
 
When Berkut started crashing through the first barricade, it was truly scary. It was not clear what their plan was, and at that point it seemed that it would be a miracle if no blood got spilled. Now, when we know that only 20 people required hospital treatment after that night, it does seem nearly miraculous.
 
It soon became clear that Berkut was acting under orders to go easy on the protesters, and the resulting scuffle looked like a practice session of police units, not real action. As police broke through the first barricade, the church bells of St. Michael's started to ring – an ancient and powerful call for alarm and mobilization.
 
For hours that followed, those watching Maidan saw massive shoving between Berkut and demonstrators, and its footage was top news around the world. But what was even more striking is how quickly Kyiv mobilized and moved into the city center, turning a crowd of a few hundred into a mass of tens of thousands of people in a matter of several hours. There was a lot of dignity in it, and a lot of pride.
 
This was the massive proof that EuroMaidan is not about its leaders, that it's truly the will of the people.
 
Every person taking part in it was a leader and a hero. I am talking about all those drivers who tweeted in the crazy hours of the morning that they will be ready to pick up and drive to Maidan anyone for free.
 
It's about a young woman with polio who came to volunteer in the kitchens of Trade Union House, cutting lemons and making tea for hours with her not fully functional hands for those people in the streets. She was there on EuroMaidan on Nov. 30, when Berkut attacked unsuspecting youngsters who were in the way of the Christmas tree.
 
It's about a 16-year-old student who was caught and beaten by Berkut in the middle of the crowd on Dec. 11. He returned to Maidan, with a smashed face, as soon as they released him because he just could not stay away.
 
It's about the metro driver who, while driving between Khreshchatyk and Teatralna in the early hours after the Berkut attack on EuroMaidan, told passengers what is happening there and urged everyone to come out at Teatralna and support the people.
 
It's about investment bankers covertly designing stickers featuring brand names of oligarchs who did not support the European integration to initiate a nationwide boycott. It's about CEOs taking unpaid leaves to defend their Maidan.
 
It's about all those doctors who volunteered to lay out mats and bandages in anticipation of injuries on the day they expected an attack on  city hall. Seeing them prepare like that, matter-of-factly, was one of the scariest things of the past week. It's like we're preparing for a war.
 
In a way, this is a war. It is a war for a new civilization in Ukraine. Based on values such as solidarity, dignity, respect for an individual and clear and equal rules of the game for all. This is no longer about Europe or integration – it's about who we are and where we want to go.
 
This is about a nation being born. Mutilated by years of misrule, impoverished by looting, it emerges slowly from the ruin. This process is massive and we don't know how well this birth is going to go. But it's happening now and here, in Kyiv, and it's both painful and awesome. The only place to truly feel the pain and grandeur of this national awakening is to stand there right on Maidan.
 
Kyiv Post deputy chief editor Katya Gorchinskaya can be reached at katya.gorchinskaya@gmail.com
 
Kyiv Post

[Strider]

While the opposition and  protestors are popular in Kyiv, it remains unclear how much support they have in the Crimea and East of Ukraine.  Contrary to the Ukrainian nationalist mythology, this is a young nation with major fault lines.  Every time there is a political crisis in Ukraine, I wonder if it will split into pieces.  Both Putin and the EU want to win the whole of Ukraine, but Putin may settle for splitting it into pieces if he can't have all of it. 

That scenario gets interesting considering how Stalin expanded the borders of the Ukrainian S. S. R. after the war at the expense of neighboring nations. 

[mendeleyev]

Strider, indeed he would be willing to see a split if that at least gives him something.


torbadusta.livejournal

[Daveman]

Strider, indeed he would be willing to see a split if that at least gives him something.


torbadusta.livejournal

Now that would make for an interesting, almost intergalactic conversation concerning from where one's spouse came...


Is your wife Russian?
No, she's from Sortian III ...

[jone]

Welcome to the NEW Yugoslavia  UKRAINE!

[calmissile]

Arrived in Kiev yesterday.  We drove around all day including a stop at the US Embassy.  It appears that this is no longer an issue about the EU.  From what I have gathered so far, it appears that the country is becoming more united and has transformed into an issue of independence......period!

Most people I have talked to do not want strong ties to Russia.  While there may be a better economic benefit than the EU, the people seem to be afraid of totalitarian rule (Russia). They have memories of the past under Soviet rule.

I have found the common people are divided between those that are pessimistic and feel that there is no hope for freedom and purging the corruption and the other set that think that a revolution and change in government may provide a better life.   No one seems to have a solution to the economic problems, but freedom and independence seems to be the theme at the moment.

The demonstrations are not limited to Independence Square (Maiden).  It seemed everywhere we drove today and yesterday, there were 35-50 people in groups walking among the streets all over Keiv.  They are peaceful and carrying Ukriane flags.  While the news is concentrating on Maiden, the marching/walking is going on all over the city.

Just my observations today.....,.

[The Natural]

Arrived in Kiev yesterday.  We drove around all day including a stop at the US Embassy.  It appears that this is no longer an issue about the EU.  From what I have gathered so far, it appears that the country is becoming more united and has transformed into an issue of independence......period!

Heard on the news today that an EU spokeswoman said Janukovich now want to sign a treaty with the EU. Maybe he got promises of more money (expensive loans). Who knows what will happen. But I'm pretty sure there will be no independence anyway. Ukraine will be at the mercy of either Russia or the EU.
 
And if the deal with the EU is, as our Russia correspondent said, much larger in scope than that which Norway has with the EU, then the Ukrainian public should fear the consequences, at least in the short term.
 
Enjoy Kiev, Cal, and keep us updated on "the word on the street".

[ML]

And if the deal with the EU is, as our Russia correspondent said, much larger in scope than that which Norway has with the EU, then the Ukrainian public should fear the consequences, at least in the short term.

Hi Reidar, long time no see!!

So what were (are) the bad consequences for Norway?

[The Natural]

Hi Reidar, long time no see!!

So what were (are) the bad consequences for Norway?

In short, loss of national independence because the EU constantly produce directives that regulates just about everything for everyone. Imagine if Ukraine is forced to implement all the standards and laws the EU requires. First, they will have to go through a shock treatment of the economy. I don't say that radical changes to the country is not necessary, but having it forced upon you from the outside is... problematic. Cut to the bone and pay back the 30 billion US dollars to Russia... that's gotta hurt. My wife say her mother is afraid they will make cuts in her already small pension.
 
Well, well, as our Chinese friends tend to say... may you live in interesting times 

[Muzh]

In short, loss of national independence because the EU constantly produce directives that regulates just about everything for everyone.
 

In short, stay as they are, vassals. You somehow think Ukraine has any independence.
 

Imagine if Ukraine is forced to implement all the standards and laws the EU requires.
 

LMFAO
 
That is EXACTLY what they are looking for. Even the oligarchs who are at risk of losing a good chunk of their fortunes want exactly this. You have any clue as to what is the alternative? Lose EVERYTHING to Yanukoncit and fa.
 

First, they will have to go through a shock treatment of the economy. I don't say that radical changes to the country is not necessary, but having it forced upon you from the outside is... problematic. Cut to the bone and pay back the 30 billion US dollars to Russia... that's gotta hurt. My wife say her mother is afraid they will make cuts in her already small pension.
 

I can promise you they are fully aware of the "shock" treatment and they welcome it as something much better than what they have.

Well, well, as our Chinese friends tend to say... may you live in interesting times 

Indeed.

[mendeleyev]

From the Mendeleyev Journal:

Last time we checked, a gift is a gift and a treaty is a treaty. Some of our Russian friends have forgotten this and it wouldn't surprise me if at some point the Russian government may suffer from similar memory lapses to wit that there is active talk of splitting Ukraine into broken off segments.


torbadusta.livejournal

Can you spell Yugoslavia?

Next look at the map below. This map shows how over time the territory of Ukraine was expanded, listing when and by whom. The implication by some is that Ukraine is lucky to have the borders she has and perhaps now is time for Ukraine to give it back.




There are even some who want Mr. Putin's Russian Army to roll in and take back what they feel rightfully belongs to Russia, as if those territories should have never been given to Ukraine in the first place.

The map label includes a line from the Ukrainian national anthem, ще не вмерла україна (Ukraine has not yet perished). Frankly, that may become a concern at some point but it really shouldn't.

We suspect that our Russian friends would suffer from cardiac arrest if China suddenly wanted to revive Siberian border disputes, or if Sweden decided that the vast territory now called Saint Petersburg needed to be brought back into their fold.

Using the same logic of some in Russia, then if Ukraine needs to cede back territory, then so should Russia. We could begin with Karelia going back to Finland and for the fun of it how about relinquishing Kaliningrad or perhaps the Kuril Islands?

History is a bitch sometimes and the fact is that Russian and Soviet leaders played games with Ukrainian borders to suit their needs at the time. Now it is time to stop the loose and silly talk of what does or does not belong to Ukraine. The Soviet Union collapsed and while there were disputes, for the most part the Republics have held onto their borders except for Georgia and Moldova.

Russia has no right to expand her borders at Ukraine's expense. Stop complaining about Crimea and Sevastopol. If you don't like the southern borders of Ukraine then give it back to Greece, Turkey or any of the other kingdoms who had it long before Russia. If you never meant to lose it, then shame on you for letting Russian leaders give it away--you are heirs to the Russian Federation and thus it is as much your fault as theirs.

If a Tsar or Communist Party Secretary wasn't keen enough to understand that history erases borders every few hundred years, then shame on them for giving it away in the first place.

We know how vocal this subject will sound to some of our friends--Подумайте о скрежете ногтей по доске. Unless you are willing to give back some of your territory as well, don't lecture Ukrainians and the rest of the world on the subject of border history.

[Muzh]

From the Mendeleyev Journal:

Last time we checked, a gift is a gift and a treaty is a treaty. Some of our Russian friends have forgotten this and it wouldn't surprise me if at some point the Russian government may suffer from similar memory lapses to wit that there is active talk of splitting Ukraine into broken off segments.

How quickly people forgot that little trilateral agreement between USA, Russia and Ukraine regarding Ukraine's nuclear stockpile.
 
IOW, IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!!!!

[mendeleyev]

In the Trilateral treaty of 1994 the following nations signed assurances to defend the borders of Ukraine and to come to her aid if Ukraine should be attacked:

Russia
United States
France
China

[Muzh]

In the Trilateral treaty of 1994 the following nations signed assurances to defend the borders of Ukraine and to come to her aid if Ukraine should be attacked:

Russia
United States
France
China

Egg xactly.

[missAmeno]

But I'm pretty sure there will be no independence anyway. Ukraine will be at the mercy of either Russia or the EU.

Right, and it is no-brainer to decide at whose mercy is better to be.

[missAmeno]

... and perhaps now is time for Ukraine to give it back.

And that reminded me of ... 

Не валяй дурака, Америка.
Не обидим, кому говорят.
Отдавай-ка землицу Алясочку,
Отдавай-ка родимую взад!

Не валяй дурака, Америка
Вот те валенки мерзнешь небось
Что Сибирь что Аляска два берега
Баня водка гармонь и лосось

Don't fool around, America.
We won't bite, we are telling you so.
Give us our dear land Alaska
Give us our darling back!

Don't fool around, America
Here some valenki, you must be freezing
Siberia and Alaska, the two shores are the same
Sauna, vodka, accordion and salmon