American Land Ownership

[AkMike]

Does anyone know what the rules are for an American owning land in Ukraine?
 I'm just thinking long range about retirement there.The pro's is the cheap cost of living and medical if things stay at par.
 What would the cons be?
 How could the money to buy the land/ property be transfered w/o problems?
 Thanks

[mistermopar]

Hey AkMike,this sounds a little familiar,LOL
Wish I knew,I have been thinking a little about this for Russia.

Randy

[AkMike]

Hi Randy!
 I was thinking about down on the Black Sea! Russia would be the same as here...
 Too Cold!!

[Son of Clyde]

You will probably end up returning to the US for medical treatment. I have heard good things about dental care in Ukraine, a crown can cost $250.00 in Ukraine as opposed to $850.00 in the US. But will it last as long?

[Admin]

You will probably end up returning to the US for medical treatment. I have heard good things about dental care in Ukraine, a crown can cost $250.00 in Ukraine as opposed to $850.00 in the US. But will it last as long?

Some might come all the way back to the US.

If it were me - and having lived in Germany - in the event I got seriously ill in Ukraine, I'd have plans make the small hop over to Germany for medical care.

Just FWIW

- Dan

[AkMike]

Dental crowns are supposed to last 10-15 years according to the dentist that did mine. I got a bad tooth ache during a flight over there and Tanya's friend was a dentist so we had her do it. 4 crowns and 1 root canal costs $315 US and that's with a Sunday call out!
 The equipment is very similar to the stuff that was used here in the early 70's. It worked here then so it should work there now, I figured. I wouldn't hesitate for dental work. But I don't know about serious medical problems. Tanya has had some serious medical opertions and she lived( thank God) so I guess they know what they are doing. They don't have the latest and greatest gizmo's that are common here but it's workable it seems.

[Kevin]

AKmike
It is very easy for Americans to purchase Apartments, homes and commerical property.  For land you have to buy it attached to a dwellling and it can't be agricultural land at this time.  Check the site www.ukraine4sale.com for updates.  It is a free site that I am working on.

Kevin

[Bruno]

AKmike
It is very easy for Americans to purchase Apartments, homes and commerical property.  For land you have to buy it attached to a dwellling and it can't be agricultural land at this time.  Check the site www.ukraine4sale.com for updates.  It is a free site that I am working on.

Kevin

Just check the site... the price seem to be very high...

For some example... the grand-mother of my girlfriend have sell her old house located around 250 km of Kiev... the house itself have no value, almost a ruin... but at 100$ for almost two hectare ( 18500 m2 ), it was almost for nothing...

Other one, the studio ( one room, bathroom, kitchen ) where i have stay during my trip is around 5000$... located in the center of Odessa...

Price of apartments in Odessa, new one but not in center vary from 300$ to 500$ by m2... all modern...

Having a Ukrainian friend who help for real estate is a must... owner will recognize directly that you are foreigner and add a zero at the end of home/apartment price... best use a lawyer/notaries for pre-sale contract before show yourself...

[Kevin]

The asking prices for property in Ukriane is a lot higher then the selling prices. Be sure to negotiate down to a reasonable price.  Their are a lot of dreamers who don't mind sitting on property hoping to find a gold mind.

Kevin

[Bruno]

It is very easy for Americans to purchase Apartments, homes and commerical property.

Below, a article with some information about real estate transaction in Ukraine :

Ukraine's real estate sector has experienced rapid growth in recent years, and with this growth has come a variety of fraudulent real estate transactions. Recent changes in the law have been aimed at curbing these abuses. Timur Bondarev, attorney-at-law and a partner in Arzinger and Partners international law firm, gives practical advice to anyone considering purchasing real estate in Ukraine

In recent years, Ukraine has experienced substantial investment inflow to finance real estate. With increased investments in real estate, the number of fraudulent
transactions in this area has also grown. Many of these bogus sales occur because the buyer often fails to verify the identity and powers of the seller and the authenticity of their ownership documents.

This kind of approach towards real estate transactions may often result in the same asset being sold multiple times to different individuals, each of whom considers himself the sole owner. Obviously, this creates disastrous consequences. To avoid such problems, this article will highlight the most important aspects to consider when buying real estate.

The fact that Ukrainian laws impose no limitations on who can purchase real estate means that foreign legal entities and individuals have the same rights as Ukrainian citizens to purchase, own and dispose of real estate assets within Ukraine. But if you have decided to buy real estate in Ukraine, you will face a number of questions related to this important decision. A real estate purchase transaction should begin with assessing the title deed and verifying that the persons trying to sell the real estate actually have the legal right to do so.

The Right of Ownership

Ukrainian law does not stipulate the format or appearance that a title deed should have. This ambiguity has given rise to a wide variety of documents that require detailed study and examination. To further complicate matters, the range of ownership documents includes not only real estate purchase/sale agreements, but also judicial decisions recognizing ownership, certificates of ownership, etc.

In order for a document of ownership to be valid, it must first be registered with the Bureau of Technical Inventory (BTI), the entity that administers the Registry of Ownership Rights to Real Estate in Ukraine. The BTI also issues confirmation certificates specifying the ownership and value of a piece of real estate. The confirmation certificate must be presented to the notary public when a transaction is pending.

The seller submits the original title deed to the notary when concluding the agreement, and this original is kept in the notary’s records to prevent future fraudulent transactions with the real estate transactions. After the purchase/sale agreement has been signed, it becomes the new title deed and must be registered with the BTI.

The Current State of Real Estate Asset

When considering the purchase of a piece of real estate, the potential buyer should pay particular attention to the state of the real estate asset concerned and should verify that it conforms to all technical documents attached to the title deed. This caution is especially important in cases were the previous owner may have remodeled the real estate asset without getting approval from the proper authorities. In these cases, the new owner can be held liable for violating applicable laws. Moreover, such unauthorized remodeling can jeopardize the structural integrity of the building, resulting in serious damage and possible loss of property and/or life.

The Seller’s Powers

When preparing a real estate transaction, one should always verify the powers of the parties involved in general, and especially with respect to the transaction at hand. Whenever the seller is a legal entity, you should check out its Articles of Association and other internal documents that regulate the management bodies of the legal entity in question.

For instance, if the asset to be sold belongs to a legal entity that is a joint-stock company, it is always a good idea to give a close read to the provisions of its Articles of Association that deal with the authority of its management bodies. Also check to see who has the right to make decisions on real estate transactions or to carry out transactions exceeding the amount specified in the Articles of Association.

If the Articles of Association specify that decisions on the sale of real estate are to be made by the general assembly of the supervisory board of the company, the seller must submit the original of the decision made by the company’s complement body. This decision should grant the director power to conclude the real estate purchase/sale agreement and should specify the sale price.

Based on our experience, we recommend that issues related to the sale of real estate assets be placed completely under the control of the general assembly or the supervisory board as a safeguard against the unauthorized sale of assets belonging to the company. If a director exceeds his/her authority to conduct a real estate transaction, the buyer can face negative consequences, since the sale agreement can later be ruled invalid.

Whenever the seller is an individual, one should take into account the following: article 65, paragraph 3 of the Family Code of Ukraine says that in order for one spouse to conclude an agreement that requires certification by a notary and public registration, the consent of the other spouse must be given in written form. In addition, a notary must certify the consent of the other spouse. If the other spouse has not given his/her consent to the transaction in question, it can be found invalid.

However, keep in mind that a good notary will thoroughly research the powers of the parties in question and will not allow a party to sign the agreement if they do not have the appropriate powers to execute the given transaction.

Checking with the Prohibitions Registry

When preparing a purchase/sale agreement for a real estate asset, the notary checks with the Prohibition Registry to make sure the real estate asset is not tied up in another legal process (such as collateral for a loan, confiscation for a crime, etc.). The notary will only certify the purchase/sale agreement if there are no charges of this nature against the property.

Notary Certification a Must

Prior to January 1, 2004, real estate asset purchase/sale agreements between legal entities did not require notary certification. Accordingly, the parties involved in such an agreement were able to save money on the state duties levied upon concluding the agreement. Notary certification of an agreement was required only when an individual was involved. However, this practice generated a number of problems related to fraudulent transactions, namely, the same real estate asset being sold several times.

When a notary certifies a real estate purchase/sale agreement, the notary keeps the original title deed, as we already mentioned, making it impossible for any further transactions to take place. The new Civil Code of Ukraine came into force on January 1, 2004. Its Article 657 states that all real estate purchase/sale agreements, regardless of the nature of the parties involved, shall be subject to notary certification and public registration.

State Duties

After a notary certifies a real estate purchase/sale agreement, the parties involved must pay 1% of the sale price in state duties plus another 1% as a contribution to the Pension Fund. These payments are made at the time of the transaction and are paid directly to the notary who certifies the purchase /sale agreement.

According to existing practices, the above-mentioned expenses are shared equally between the parties. However, depending on the situation, the parties may agree on an alternate way to split the expenses. If they do, this change should be clearly stated in the purchase/sale agreement.

Registration of a Real Estate Purchase/Sale Agreement

A real estate purchase/sale agreement must be registered in the BTI. Until it is, it is invalid.

[AkMike]

Thanks for the replies folks!
 I'm thinking about this for our return next winter and I was considering apts. mostly in Kiev or Cherkassy area. The area around Yalta and Balakalava would be land only. I do have a stepson that would hold the farm land in his name so that would be fine. And I have a friend in Cherkassy that happens to be a lawyer so I think he'd make sure that I would be protected and do the negoations for me.
   Any idea how to legally transfer funds into Ukraine? Has anyone ever done a electronic bank to bank transfer internationally? It works fine here in the states but I'd hate to loose it in this type of transfer.

Khersongirls; Thanks for the link !!!

[chrisc4]

I have moved money here ( sevastopol) many times , its very easy from the Uk it takes me about 2 or 3 days , and it goes via the US , and then on to here,
Land on the south coast is getting extreamly expensive now, dont forget that you will pay up to 1% to withdraw your funds, some banks do it for less you need to go to each one and check 

[AkMike]

Thanks for the reply Chris.
 I doubt that the land prices will ever get any cheaper. Land is the only thing that they'll never make more of so prices reflect that.
 The place next door to me is for sale now and I wish I could afford it. BUT $450,000 US for 1/2 acre is way too much for my taste.

[AkMike]

Just an updare on this thread.
 I went back there last November and promtly set up a bank account at the largest bank in the counry. Tanya has a friend that is a lawyer for that bank so he helped us get everything smoothed over. I did a bank to bank electronic transfer of funds, it took 5 days for that.
 We shopped several companys that are in the process of building large apartment buildings in Kiev. We ended up basicly buying a chunk of sky that should have a building wrapped around it by mid 2008. I was VERY leery of geting ripped off but after talking with our lawyer friend and having him examine the documents we went ahead. The contractor doesn't get th money! It's deposited in an account that is mothered over by the government and paid out as needed to the builder. There was rip off problems sometime ago so this system was set up to fix the problem.
 My step-son lives nearby and he sends pictures of the progress.
 I hate big citys no matter where they are at. BUT that is where the money is. We bought this property as an investment only. And if you want to invest in Ukraine IMO property is a good one. But banks are paying between 8 and 12% interest on a savings account.
 That's as good or better than my stocks are doing. But it doesn't apppear that there is any sort of FDIC type of insurance. That is why I chose the biggest and most established bnk there. Hopefully the most stable.

[AkMike]

Here's a fresh picture ouf our place being built.

[DKMM]

If you don't mind, could you share with us the price of this place and what amenities it will have?

[AkMike]

When it's done it'll be a bare concrete box that has the front door and windows. The plumbing is stubbed in and electic is in. The heat is there too.We trim it out as we wish.
 Sorry but I don't talk numbers other than it's 56 sq meters, a 1 br. apt.

[DKMM]

how do they fit a bedroom in a place that small?

I am curious though perhaps you could link a real estate site there that shows some listings?  Is it between 100 and 200k?

[AkMike]

I don't have any links for real estate. Look they may be there?
 We looked via shoe leather last Nov.
 I did see apts there for over 1/2 MILLION.... U$D on down so you choose your price range.

[wxman]

how do they fit a bedroom in a place that small?

I am curious though perhaps you could link a real estate site there that shows some listings?  Is it between 100 and 200k?

That's about 600 sq feet. Not huge but not bad. A 10x15 ft bedroom only takes up 150 sq ft, and still leaves 450 sq ft for bathroom, kitchen and small living room.

[DKMM]

yeah I know, but a 10x15 bedroom!!  Oy!  I guess that's how it is there though I remember the bathroom would only take up about 1 sq meter...

[wxman]

yeah I know, but a 10x15 bedroom!!  Oy!  I guess that's how it is there though I remember the bathroom would only take up about 1 sq meter...

Just think of that bedroom as a double wide prison cell, with a few extra feet to spare. 

[AkMike]

This place is a palace compared to some places I've seen there. They still have communial apts. where 5-6 familys share the kitchen. 2 small stoves, imagine that at supper time! The fridge is in their room, maybe 12'X16'.The toilet and shower are also shared. Each family has their own toilet seat however! It's just everyday living for them.
 
 

[wxman]

How true. 600 sq feet in a new flat that you can design, is a big improvement over the older flats that most live in. The new flats are out of reach for most Ukrainians, that is why they pass down from generation to generation the older flats.

[ScottinCrimea]

Our place here in Simferopol was about the same as you are getting - stone walls in a new building.  It's a bit larger, running 70 sq meters and having two bedrooms. I know many in the US consider this to be pretty small and take pride in having a huge house, for us it's very comfortable and meets our needs just fine. While there's a definite satisfaction in creating a home from the ground up, you will find that for various reasons it can be a real pain in the backside.  We probably spent nearly as much on the interior as we did to buy the place, but then we spared no expense, going so far as having my wife make a shopping trip to Istanbul and having a lot of things shipped from there like our Turkish sauna/jacuzzi.  It took about 6 months to get everything finished and you really have to watch everything very closely or find someone you trust completely to do it for you or you will end up with less than optimum results and a higher price.  Luckily my wife is certified in building materials and management so she was able to do the design, purchase the materials and supervise the workers.