Two sorry tales

[Doll]

Doll- it is my bad use of English. I meant:
I heard from Russian people who said to me ...


 

Then there's a good Russian expression- Одна бабка сказала.
Anyway- easy with your "mentality" judgement.
I know both and BELIEVE me- after 12 years in the US I would bite my tongue on this subject.

[Doll]

Doll- it is my bad use of English. I meant:
I heard from Russian people who said to me ...


That is what Russians told me.  Express means ... to express ones self, give (express) their opinion.
Typical cultural, language based misunderstanding, like I said a man can get condemned and never understand why.

Seriously? I would NOT listen people who b%#(tch their own country.
I would not translate what you've heard on these two women and FSU women in general.
Like I said, I know both sides, "targets" too.
Innocent lovely (fat and old) boys get the wives in "poor" Russia 20 years younger than themselves.
Give me a break!

[CanadaMan]

Both men should have realized that their marriages had high risks for divorce.  A reasonable man entering a high-risk marriage should be prepared to accept the consequences of failure.

That is a very strange sentence, especially coming from you Gator.
A reasonable man would never enter into a high-risk marriage in the first place.

[rambler]

I think you are misquoting me.
Did I  use the word mentality? I said psyche = "the human soul, mind, or spirit"


I have learned that any criticism of anything Russian by a foreigner is not tolerated by Russians whether it is true or not.


That won't stop me quoting Russians or expressing my opinions. Corruption and organised crime are a big problem in the FSU. Same in the USA and UK and France. But we don't get airport police dropping $100 bills and arresting a guy for picking it up and accusing the traveler of taking $300 and only giving back $100. The Russian police and especially the ex police are the Russian Mafia.


This forum is hereto provide advice to those starting out and that was the purpose of my post.
If you are a western man and the woman seems too good to be true,  then beware.

[Doll]

Yeah, now aiport police is to blame for these "sorry tales"
As for W-FSU marriages than they are ALL very high-risk ones.

[Gator]

That is a very strange sentence, especially coming from you Gator.
A reasonable man would never enter into a high-risk marriage in the first place.

Why not if the rewards are commensurate with the risk and if the consequences are manageable?

I consider myself reasonable, but also a risk taker (such as using my home as collateral for business loans).  The consequences of business failure and becoming homeless were more grave than a divorce from someone with whom I have irreconcilable differences and no children.  If kids are involved the consequences are greater, much greater.   

[calmissile]

Why not if the rewards are commensurate with the risk and if the consequences are manageable?

A logical approach that I think most men take to risk management for business or personal decisions.

[CanadaMan]

Why not if the rewards are commensurate with the risk and if the consequences are manageable?

If you're savvy enough you can rationalize away anything. 

I tend to agree with Doll, that all W-FSU marriages are very high risk.

But there are degrees in high risk, just as in almost everything else. High risk, very high risk, super high risk, ultra high risk etc. etc.

I still maintain that a reasonable man would not make just one short trip to the FSU and marry a woman while there.

[Boethius]

Years ago Mrs. M and I were approached by a very attractive lady was looking for a way to get to the USA. Her ex-husband had moved there to take a high tech job, with their school aged son, and the two were talking of getting back together and it seemed like the husband had no legal status to file for his ex-wife to obtain a visa. She wanted me to help her find a man. Requirements: specific city and she had income targets that she wanted the man to possess. I quickly gathered that this woman intended to rekindle with her ex on the side, manage the two year adjustment period, and then leave with assets. That is criminal and of course we had nothing to do with her scheme.

She was hot with a body like that I wouldn't be surprised if some dude wasn't on a plane, engagement stone at the ready, in a matter of months if not sooner. She was also a heartless criminal in my view but even so, a man rushing in without thinking, researching and exploring must take a share of the responsibility. We perform due diligence in most things and that is what makes us successful enough to attract some of the shady ladies. We need to do even more due diligence when it comes to marriage, especially under cross cultural and long distance circumstances.

Before the collapse, individuals with such attitudes hunted men (and, from time to time, women) from closed cities, such as Moscow, St. Petersburg, and Kyiv, for a propiska.  I've posted some of those stories here in the past, and the ugliest ones, I have not. 


If another person from the same culture, speaking the same language, cannot see these schemers, what chance does a besotted WM have?

[Boethius]

Two sorry tales?
I can tell you twenty two of the same kind- all happened to people with the "blessed mentality".
I work in school and EVERY day see the kids from these families. Horrible!

I think people often don't think about this in their own culture. 

I knew a young man from a very wealthy family.  He married young, under 30.  Within six months of his marriage, he was diagnosed with MS.  His bride left him that week.   I also knew a lesbian whose lover stole from her, usually expensive jewelry, which I suspect was then sold.  When I saw them together, with my husband there, I realized the lover was straight, just by her reaction to the men around.  Sure enough, when the lesbian tired of her antics and threw her out, the lover moved on, and her next victim was a man. 


There are countless stories like this, if one looks around.

[Boethius]

Seriously? I would NOT listen people who b%#(tch their own country.
I would not translate what you've heard on these two women and FSU women in general.
Like I said, I know both sides, "targets" too.
Innocent lovely (fat and old) boys get the wives in "poor" Russia 20 years younger than themselves.
Give me a break!

This is something relatively few men wish to admit.  Even to themselves.

[fathertime]

That is a very strange sentence, especially coming from you Gator.
A reasonable man would never enter into a high-risk marriage in the first place.

Hi Canadaman,


I don't think that statement is universally true...I think if you substituted the word CONSERVATIVE (not in a political sense) in lieu of reasonable I could find what you said to be true, perhaps that is what you meant...perhaps not. 


I would say it is completely reasonable for a man to take a chance in a high risk marriage if he doesn't feel like he has much to lose and might have a great deal to gain.


Fathertime!

[Gator]

I still maintain that a reasonable man would not make just one short trip to the FSU and marry a woman while there.

I agree with you 100%, so maybe we are not far part.  The more a RW is out of the league you date in America, the more time you should take to get to know her well. "You" meaning any man who pursues a RW. 

This should be about love.  Love takes time for which there is no substitute. 

[CanadaMan]

I don't think that statement is universally true...I think if you substituted the word CONSERVATIVE (not in a political sense) in lieu of reasonable I could find what you said to be true, perhaps that is what you meant...perhaps not. 

No I did mean to say reasonable.
I'm sorry I should have been clearer.
I should have said "A reasonable man would never enter into a high-risk marriage such as these two men, in the first place."

They married within a few months of meeting their partners.
How well could they have known them?
They were really playing Russian roulette.

[fathertime]

No I did mean to say reasonable.
I'm sorry I should have been clearer.
I should have said "A reasonable man would never enter into a high-risk marriage such as these two men, in the first place."

They married within a few months of meeting their partners.
How well could they have known them?
They were really playing Russian roulette.

Gotcha CM, makes sense...some grown men are just going to have to learn lessons the hard way...these types of stories are interesting to hear...I've always felt it couldn't/wouldn't happen to me, and it didn't...but I suppose in actuality it could happen to anybody...but for certain men, it is probably close to 100% that they are going to be taken for an unhappy ride. 
 


Fathertime! 

[Doll]

In my humble opinion, if there's something "tricky" on a FSU woman's mind- you will NEVER figure it out. I mean you can date her for a year or two and still get what these two gentlemen got.
 
  So, if you are 20 years old older, you're over weighted etc. BUT you date the young beauty for 2 years and then marry her- you are safe?
Б-гг

[Doll]

In other words, Russians can play good for a loooooooooong time.
So date locally, boys.

[Faux Pas]

In other words, Russians can play good for a loooooooooong time.
So date locally, boys.

They sure can! My wife has done it for 7 years and I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop, should be any day now, huh? 

Doll, don't get yourself riled up over the remarks in this thread. The guys in these two sad stories are no doubt morons but, that doesn't excuse the women either. Obviously, they are not that bright either or they wouldn't had needed to settle for using two morons as mules.

The sad fact is these stories are no doubt real. These are the ones that wind up on Oprah and Jerry Springer as typical MOB marriages when there could be nothing further from the truth. All of the folks in these two stories are user's and scammers. The really weird thing here is, they all got what they were after. Most of these stories don't usually end with that result.

Bottom line here is: These people with those motivations could have come from any country. Their actions are actions of people the world over. It's not a nationality thing

[pokerintherear]

In other words, Russians can play good for a loooooooooong time.
So date locally, boys.

Everyone except you and your husband

[pokerintherear]

Years ago Mrs. M and I were approached by a very attractive lady was looking for a way to get to the USA. Her ex-husband had moved there to take a high tech job, with their school aged son, and the two were talking of getting back together and it seemed like the husband had no legal status to file for his ex-wife to obtain a visa. She wanted me to help her find a man. Requirements: specific city and she had income targets that she wanted the man to possess. I quickly gathered that this woman intended to rekindle with her ex on the side, manage the two year adjustment period, and then leave with assets. That is criminal and of course we had nothing to do with her scheme.

She was hot with a body like that I wouldn't be surprised if some dude wasn't on a plane, engagement stone at the ready, in a matter of months if not sooner. She was also a heartless criminal in my view but even so, a man rushing in without thinking, researching and exploring must take a share of the responsibility. We perform due diligence in most things and that is what makes us successful enough to attract some of the shady ladies. We need to do even more due diligence when it comes to marriage, especially under cross cultural and long distance circumstances.

If you are serious about this I'm willing to be the mule. Of course there would be a business contract of sorts along with me leaving my billfold on the table one night and the lady make a small discreet contribution to the billfold. In 2 years she can be with her ex-husband legally.

[Doll]

Faux, I don't care for these two women AT ALL- I just reacted on the "this Russian mentality" (or what ever he said) VERSUS Western one.
 
First, Russians are TIMES more sincere than Westen people, second- this is a :Russian women discussion" board. To come here and say what he said about Russians is not quite smart (to be Russian, I would say "dumb")))
 
I don't feel for the idiots who  believe in "happily ever after" when they pick women out of their league.
Or think that women will admire them just because they (women) stepped on a "blessed land".
No.

[Gator]

They sure can! My wife has done it for 7 years and I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop, should be any day now, huh? 

Doll, don't get yourself riled up over the remarks in this thread. The guys in these two sad stories are no doubt morons but, that doesn't excuse the women either. Obviously, they are not that bright either or they wouldn't had needed to settle for using two morons as mules.

The sad fact is these stories are no doubt real. These are the ones that wind up on Oprah and Jerry Springer as typical MOB marriages when there could be nothing further from the truth. All of the folks in these two stories are user's and scammers. The really weird thing here is, they all got what they were after. Most of these stories don't usually end with that result.

Bottom line here is: These people with those motivations could have come from any country. Their actions are actions of people the world over. It's not a nationality thing

Well written and accurate.   

[vwrw]

In my humble opinion, if there's something "tricky" on a FSU woman's mind- you will NEVER figure it out. I mean you can date her for a year or two and still get what these two gentlemen got.
 

In 99%, red flags can be  noticed by a person with an objective judgment. The problem is that people want to believe that the relationship they want will work out and they discard the red flags or justify them.   

[ML]

So date locally, boys.

Other Doll quotes in this thread:

 "Faux, I don't care for these two women AT ALL . . ."
 
"I don't feel for the idiots who  believe in "happily ever after" when they pick women out of their league. . . ."

Doll, for all of the several months (years) you have  been posting here . . . a continuing refrain of yours has been to try to stop men from dating and marrying FSU women.

And you repeat that again in this thread as shown in the first quote above.

Yet, in your other words, you state that you really don't care about the men who do such (or the women involved either).

Perhaps it is too personal for you to answer . . . but I am curious about what it is that really eats badly at you when you see, hear about, etc., WM who are pursuing, dating, and marrying FSU women. 

You clearly don't really care anything about the persons involved (such as trying to help them) . . . but it just really eats at you that it is happening.

Some tragedy in your family with this situation . . . or ??
   

[Faux Pas]

Faux, I don't care for these two women AT ALL- I just reacted on the "this Russian mentality" (or what ever he said) VERSUS Western one.
 
First, Russians are TIMES more sincere than Westen people, second- this is a :Russian women discussion" board. To come here and say what he said about Russians is not quite smart (to be Russian, I would say "dumb")))
 
I don't feel for the idiots who  believe in "happily ever after" when they pick women out of their league.
Or think that women will admire them just because they (women) stepped on a "blessed land".
No.

Understood. The fact is rambler is just wrong on his statements about Russian mentality or psyche or any other way he wishes to frame it. He is allowed to be wrong in his beliefs. Women using their sexuality to nab a man or men using their wealth or other resources to nab a woman is as old as time and knows no borders. When you separate the wheat from the chafe in this story, that is all that there is, no?