Exploitation: Real, imagined, or deliberately disingenuous?

[missAmeno]

....The name “Ukraine” literally translates as “on the edge.” It is a country on the edge of other countries, sometimes part of one, sometimes part of another and more frequently divided. In the 17th and 18th centuries, it was divided between...

Our history is one of the major factors behind mentality there is no guilt to exploit those who wish to exploit us.

[JayH]

Our history is one of the major factors behind mentality there is no guilt to exploit those who wish to exploit us.

Could you expand on that please?

[Anotherkiwi]

Our history is one of the major factors behind mentality there is no guilt to exploit those who wish to exploit us.

Yes, but the problem so many Western men who travel to Ukraine face is being scammed by women with this very attitude, when those particular men themselves have absolutely no intention of exploiting anyone.  Unfortunately, many (if not the great majority) of the women at the far end of the MOB business aren't prepared to give the WM a chance to show how sincere they may be.  What many of them do for money at the end of an Anastasia (or similar) video link is, to me, criminal.

Of course there are Ukrainian women who are scammed by keyboard Romeos or real con-artists - I accept that.  However, the proportion of such women is miniscule (as is, probably, the proportion of men who actually make the trip).  Getting used to the idea of paying for absolutely everything took me a long time to accept, but I would never have cried "scammer" just on this basis.

[SANDRO43]

History shows that countries sharing borders with major other countries have always had problems with their own national identities, whether to be independent or identifying with one or other of their more powerful neighbours .

[missAmeno]

Yes, but the problem so many Western men who travel to Ukraine face is being scammed by women with this very attitude, when those particular men themselves have absolutely no intention of exploiting anyone. 

Exploitation: the action of making use of and benefiting from resources.
"the Bronze Age saw exploitation of gold deposits"
synonyms:   utilization, utilizing, use, making use of, putting to use, making the most of, capitalization on.

  

Remind me why guys are seeking wives from this particular region?

[Anotherkiwi]

Exploitation: the action of making use of and benefiting from resources.
"the Bronze Age saw exploitation of gold deposits"
synonyms:   utilization, utilizing, use, making use of, putting to use, making the most of, capitalization on.

  

Remind me why guys are seeking wives from this particular region?

To answer the second part first: I'm looking for someone special to fill a gap in my life - someone who can be my best friend as well as my lover; someone who can share as many wonderful moments with me as possible.  If she happens to be better looking than anyone I've dated here, that's a bonus - it's not a pre-requisite.  I don't want children, so she doesn't have to be in her 20s - I would much rather that she be at least 40, maybe even 50.

I'm looking to the FSU not because of standard MOB stereotypes, but simply to enlarge the pool of possible candidates (have internet, will travel).  I've stated several times before that I would be very happy to settle down with someone who already lives here, whether they be a New Zealander, English, Russian or whatever else.

As for the first part - whatever dictionary you've used must have other definitions for "exploitation," because the words listed above are NOT synonymous with the standard interpretation of "exploitation" that most people would use in the sense of seeking a wife in foreign territory (in this case, the FSU).  Exploitation and utilis(z)ation are two completely different concepts - to me it's quite clear that Anastasia (as one example) deliberately exploits the great majority of the poor guys who use their services, by creating bogus relationships with women who don't even know that the man exists.  How can any man (except the agency owner) possibly be exploiting any woman in this scenario?  If this is not fraud, what would you call it?

[missAmeno]

To answer the second part first: I'm looking for someone special to fill a gap in my life - someone who can be my best friend as well as my lover; someone who can share as many wonderful moments with me as possible.  If she happens to be better looking than anyone I've dated here, that's a bonus - it's not a pre-requisite.  I don't want children, so she doesn't have to be in her 20s - I would much rather that she be at least 40, maybe even 50.

I'm looking to the FSU not because of standard MOB stereotypes, but simply to enlarge the pool of possible candidates (have internet, will travel).  I've stated several times before that I would be very happy to settle down with someone who already lives here, whether they be a New Zealander, English, Russian or whatever else.

As for the first part - whatever dictionary you've used must have other definitions for "exploitation," because the words listed above are NOT synonymous with the standard interpretation of "exploitation" that most people would use in the sense of seeking a wife in foreign territory (in this case, the FSU).  Exploitation and utilis(z)ation are two completely different concepts - to me it's quite clear that Anastasia (as one example) deliberately exploits the great majority of the poor guys who use their services, by creating bogus relationships with women who don't even know that the man exists.  How can any man (except the agency owner) possibly be exploiting any woman in this scenario?  If this is not fraud, what would you call it?

I posted one of the definitions of 'exploitation' that came up on google search for 'exploitation definition'. The other one is:

the action or fact of treating someone unfairly in order to benefit from their work.
"the exploitation of migrant workers"
synonyms: taking advantage, making use, abuse of, misuse, ill-treatment, unfair treatment, bleeding dry, sucking dry, squeezing, wringing

But let's leave the definition for a moment and look at guys who seek MOB.

How many guys are like you? How many in it just to enlarge the pool and not to take advantage of girls who live in economically deprived countries? How many not trying to trade possibility for living in western country in exchange for youth and beauty? How many at all prepare to trade anything instead of simply wanking off? How many bother to get on the plane instead of seeking confidence inflation by getting attention from good looking girls in exchange for empty promises?

You know by yourself that percentage of those who actually ready to get on the plane is very little. Now from that little those who are seeking equal partner in life (instead of show-off-doll/obedient cleaner/submissive housewife/etc) is truly minuscule. Vast majority are there to take advantage if not of actual women themselves than at least of the economic situation in the country to get a better deal.

Most FSU people will not feel sorry for guys that got scammed while they by themselves tried to take advantage of hard living conditions in FSU. For some reasons these gays do not look for wives in France, Germany, Sweden, Norway ... insert any western country here ... They look for wives in countries with fragile and unstable economy with excuses of traditional values while they have no clue about neither our traditions or our values. The most ludicrous excuse is widespreadness of feminism in their own country. They have issue with women having equal rights with them so they look for women from economically deprived countries. Isn't that exploitation in any kind of definition?

[Muzh]

Hmm. MissA, notice how quiet it got all out of the sudden?
 
To AK, keep up the good fight.
 

[lordtiberius]

I posted one of the definitions of 'exploitation' that came up on google search for 'exploitation definition'. The other one is:

the action or fact of treating someone unfairly in order to benefit from their work.
"the exploitation of migrant workers"
synonyms: taking advantage, making use, abuse of, misuse, ill-treatment, unfair treatment, bleeding dry, sucking dry, squeezing, wringing

But let's leave the definition for a moment and look at guys who seek MOB.

How many guys are like you? How many in it just to enlarge the pool and not to take advantage of girls who live in economically deprived countries? How many not trying to trade possibility for living in western country in exchange for youth and beauty? How many at all prepare to trade anything instead of simply wanking off? How many bother to get on the plane instead of seeking confidence inflation by getting attention from good looking girls in exchange for empty promises?

You know by yourself that percentage of those who actually ready to get on the plane is very little. Now from that little those who are seeking equal partner in life (instead of show-off-doll/obedient cleaner/submissive housewife/etc) is truly minuscule. Vast majority are there to take advantage if not of actual women themselves than at least of the economic situation in the country to get a better deal.

Most FSU people will not feel sorry for guys that got scammed while they by themselves tried to take advantage of hard living conditions in FSU. For some reasons these gays do not look for wives in France, Germany, Sweden, Norway ... insert any western country here ... They look for wives in countries with fragile and unstable economy with excuses of traditional values while they have no clue about neither our traditions or our values. The most ludicrous excuse is widespreadness of feminism in their own country. They have issue with women having equal rights with them so they look for women from economically deprived countries. Isn't that exploitation in any kind of definition?

Objection your honor, relevance. 

[Slumba]

But let's leave the definition for a moment and look at guys who seek MOB.

How many guys are like you? How many in it just to enlarge the pool and not to take advantage of girls who live in economically deprived countries? How many not trying to trade possibility for living in western country in exchange for youth and beauty? How many at all prepare to trade anything instead of simply wanking off? How many bother to get on the plane instead of seeking confidence inflation by getting attention from good looking girls in exchange for empty promises?

You know by yourself that percentage of those who actually ready to get on the plane is very little. Now from that little those who are seeking equal partner in life (instead of show-off-doll/obedient cleaner/submissive housewife/etc) is truly minuscule. Vast majority are there to take advantage if not of actual women themselves than at least of the economic situation in the country to get a better deal.

Most FSU people will not feel sorry for guys that got scammed while they by themselves tried to take advantage of hard living conditions in FSU. For some reasons these gays do not look for wives in France, Germany, Sweden, Norway ... insert any western country here ... They look for wives in countries with fragile and unstable economy with excuses of traditional values while they have no clue about neither our traditions or our values. The most ludicrous excuse is widespreadness of feminism in their own country. They have issue with women having equal rights with them so they look for women from economically deprived countries. Isn't that exploitation in any kind of definition?

Which guys who got scammed, are you talking about? 

The guys who never got on the plane but paid ADate a lot of money; or the guy that goes to FSU and is unrealistic; or the guy that goes there but is realistic, but still gets scammed?

[GQBlues]

....But let's leave the definition for a moment and look at guys who seek MOB.

How many guys are like you? How many in it just to enlarge the pool and not to take advantage of girls who live in economically deprived countries? How many not trying to trade possibility for living in western country in exchange for youth and beauty? How many at all prepare to trade anything instead of simply wanking off? How many bother to get on the plane instead of seeking confidence inflation by getting attention from good looking girls in exchange for empty promises?...

MissA-

I no longer am the arguing type so please, if it appears to you like that - accept my apologies in advance.

I happen to disagree with your perspective of the men in this wonderful pursuit. Most of them are honest, hard-working individuals who simply happen to aspire a life with a woman they can hold dear. As you well know, women in the western hemisphere had grown towards equality and entitlement. While this have an admirable trait, it directly compromised the value of a once endeared household where duties and roles amongst husbands and wives are clear. In America, this is all but gone along with the tears of yesterdays. We long for those days and yearn to live again in the company of a pragmatic and traditional women that seem prevalent in the FSU region.

FSUWs are known for their endearing qualities and not least of which is their longing for a happy family life. They can definitely find this amongst western men who dreams of the exact same thing.

Is this how you define exploitation? I do not. We do not search in places like France, the UK, Norway or wherever else you mentioned for the simply reason they are not traditional. They are mostly discriminatory in their characterization of western men. They are far more concerned in what they can get for themselves in any relationship. That has been my personal experiences dating so many American women. How can men like myself find happiness with these types of women, I ask?

Maybe in some superficial perspective it would appear pairings in many of these WM/FSUW marriages are at best, unequal. Whether that be in age, appearance, intelligence, or culture. But these are simply temporary and meaningless obstruction when couples find what they sought all their lives..happiness in marriage.

The fact many marriages have huge age difference, myself included, is a testament FSUWs simply do not mind such disparity. They've lived upon such a hard culture due to the recent political structure, that thankfully had ended, to better understand and appreciate the simpler things in what life has to offer. They are survivors and they are resilient. They know the age of the men mean nothing if they can be a good provider to the family. They'll happily be with an older man who is a great provider, then one of their age but is greedy. Pragmatic as they are, who are more qualified to know this simple fact but these women themselves?

I believe, if I may, you should give us a bit more understanding and leniency in your opinions. After all, a FSUW yourself, it is in your graceful existence that we embark in such a rigorous and challenging endeavor. I thank my lucky stars every night for women such as yourself...traditional, matured, loving of their men unconditionally, pragmatic and most of all - divine.

[fathertime]

. Vast majority are there to take advantage if not of actual women themselves than at least of the economic situation in the country to get a better deal.

  They have issue with women having equal rights with them so they look for women from economically deprived countries. Isn't that exploitation in any kind of definition?

Hello Miss Ameno,


The bolded statement of yours above I agree with.  I think it is quite clear that many men target a country like Ukraine because the ladies are willing to overlook a man's age or even physical appearance to some extent.  I don't think that has to be exploitation or even a bad thing though.  I guess many ladies will value a man that she perceives as being more likely to be steady, loyal, and willing to support her. 


The underlined statement of yours I think is a little far-fetched to apply to the whole.  While I'm sure there are SOME men that look for a disparity in power within a relationship, I would say that many many more are NOT looking to exploit or treat badly a woman they are in a relationship with.  From the stories I read, many men wind up getting suckered, perhaps in part because they are trying to be to nice/accommodating.  Sorta the antithesis of exploitative.   Generally speaking, the fact that men look in these economically disadvantaged countries is because that is where the best looking women are available TO THEM.   


Fathertime!

[Konfushus]

While I'm sure there are SOME men that look for a disparity in power within a relationship, I would say that many many more are NOT looking to exploit or treat badly a woman they are in a relationship with.

Generally speaking, the fact that men look in these economically disadvantaged countries is because that is where the best looking women are available TO THEM.

I agree with you based on men that I've met. Most men don't put so much thought into the situation beyond what you said. For example, Ukraine seems like a place where good looking women are available to them - they go to Ukraine.

[Boethius]

MissA-

I no longer am the arguing type so please, if it appears to you like that - accept my apologies in advance.

I happen to disagree with your perspective of the men in this wonderful pursuit. Most of them are honest, hard-working individuals who simply happen to aspire a life with a woman they can hold dear. As you well know, women in the western hemisphere had grown towards equality and entitlement. While this have an admirable trait, it directly compromised the value of a once endeared household where duties and roles amongst husbands and wives are clear. In America, this is all but gone along with the tears of yesterdays. We long for those days and yearn to live again in the company of a pragmatic and traditional women that seem prevalent in the FSU region.

FSUWs are known for their endearing qualities and not least of which is their longing for a happy family life. They can definitely find this amongst western men who dreams of the exact same thing.

Is this how you define exploitation? I do not. We do not search in places like France, the UK, Norway or wherever else you mentioned for the simply reason they are not traditional. They are mostly discriminatory in their characterization of western men. They are far more concerned in what they can get for themselves in any relationship. That has been my personal experiences dating so many American women. How can men like myself find happiness with these types of women, I ask?

Maybe in some superficial perspective it would appear pairings in many of these WM/FSUW marriages are at best, unequal. Whether that be in age, appearance, intelligence, or culture. But these are simply temporary and meaningless obstruction when couples find what they sought all their lives..happiness in marriage.

The fact many marriages have huge age difference, myself included, is a testament FSUWs simply do not mind such disparity. They've lived upon such a hard culture due to the recent political structure, that thankfully had ended, to better understand and appreciate the simpler things in what life has to offer. They are survivors and they are resilient. They know the age of the men mean nothing if they can be a good provider to the family. They'll happily be with an older man who is a great provider, then one of their age but is greedy. Pragmatic as they are, who are more qualified to know this simple fact but these women themselves?

I believe, if I may, you should give us a bit more understanding and leniency in your opinions. After all, a FSUW yourself, it is in your graceful existence that we embark in such a rigorous and challenging endeavor. I thank my lucky stars every night for women such as yourself...traditional, matured, loving of their men unconditionally, pragmatic and most of all - divine.

I'm really liking this new and improved GQ!  The positivity of your posts has made my computer screen glow like the California sun.  I can literally feel the good vibrations you exude.  Perhaps some of your epiphany will rub off on other less blessed posters (you know who you are . . . Ade!)


GQ, you obviously have absorbed the lessons of those who had the patience, over the years, to point to the error of your ways.  Who knows?  Your next lesson may be on everlasting marital bliss, courtesy of one of our (many) multiple married members.

[calmissile]

Hello Miss Ameno,

I am a little confused by your attitude.  On one hand you criticize men for selecting women from economically disadvantaged countries, and yet being a feminist, you seem to not want these women to improve their conditions if it means marrying 'UP' to someone more wealthy.

Which is it?  You would be happier if the women stay in the conditions they are presently in?  That does not sound very feminist to me.  Somehow I don't see it as exploitation (in the bad sense) unless you want to consider they are exploiting each other.  In some minds, that is not exploitation, but rather a mutual benefit for both parties....... or is it just to criticize the mens side of the equation?

[Konfushus]

To GQBlues -

I've read a lot of your posts, your sarcastic posts today are cracking me up - but I've got to ask you - with your negativity towards the MOB, why did you deliberately seek a wife on a MOB site?

From what I understand you have the stereotypical situation (didn't find a wife back home, lined up girls to meet from a MOB site, picked a wife with a large age and looks difference and put her through what I see as the most typical MOB wife situation, taking a young gal who was dependent on her parents and putting her through college and teaching her things like you would a young daughter).

So what gives? Why the negativity to those following in your footsteps? Does it bug you that guys you think are losers can accomplish what you've done, or what's up?

[Daveman]

I agree with you based on men that I've met. Most men don't put so much thought into the situation beyond what you said. For example, Ukraine seems like a place where good looking women are available to them - they go to Ukraine.

+another

I still do no even remotely buy into the negatively defined and connoted "exploitation" label.  It's utterly absurd.

an "exploit" is simply a deed or an act.  Okay, so the venture can be called an exploit. 

Merriam-Webster:
exploit (v)
1) to make productive use of

ahhhhh, well, I guess marriage, at least in most cases, is productive - so yeah, men are exploiting the women and women are exploiting the men.  Damn them to the fires of hell.

2) to make use of meanly or unfairly for one's own advantage.

Yeah, there definitely are some mean and unfair RW out there.  They turned me down... what?? how could that be??? you mean... they had .. what?? a CHOICE??? Jesus must STILL be weeping over the absolute injustice I had to face.

Hmmmm.... searching where women are available and interested , freely  meeting, freely dating, freely marrying, freely immigrating to the husband's country... THE FREAKIN' HORROR!!!! Now, really, does that seem to jibe with exploitation definition 2? Of course not.  But, by god we don't like dem mins goin' over thar an' a gittin nem nere wimmins an' a bein' hap hap happy fer a spell...

Even if the man is a complete and utter, total social retard covered with warts, moles, AND with a sycamore growing out his arse -- who can't even get a date at Old McDonald's place.. E I E I  STILL is NOT exploitation for him to go where nem nare wimmins be intamerested..

As I've asserted before - it's not like parents are starving, cannot afford to raise their children so are selling the oldest into marriage as the only means of feeding the other three (or whatever scenario anyone wishes to dream up).  THAT would be exploitation.  In this the woman has options and may freely choose to say "NO".  Nothing mean. Nothing unfair.  AND..  Advantageous to both.  Sorry... defcon 2 just doesn't fly.  It's about the flagrantliest dumbliest nonsense I have ever heard.

[missAmeno]

I'm really liking this new and improved GQ!  The positivity of your posts has made my computer screen glow like the California sun.  I can literally feel the good vibrations you exude. 

Improved GQ caused the collision of energetic charged particles with atoms on my computer screen and I am not even in the auroral zone 

[Boethius]

As I've asserted before - it's not like parents are starving, cannot afford to raise their children so are selling the oldest into marriage as the only means of feeding the other three (or whatever scenario anyone wishes to dream up).  THAT would be exploitation.  In this the woman has options and may freely choose to say "NO".  Nothing mean. Nothing unfair.  AND..  Advantageous to both.  Sorry... defcon 2 just doesn't fly.  It's about the flagrantliest dumbliest nonsense I have ever heard.

I disagree, and I agree with missAmeno. 


The starving argument is disingenuous.  Why did the MOB market dry up in Latvia?  Lithuania?  Estonia?  Why does it not exist in Poland?  Hungary?  The Czech Republic?  Why is it not going gangbusters in Russia, as it did in the mid 1990's?

[Boethius]

Improved GQ caused the collision of energetic charged particles with atoms on my computer screen and I am not even in the auroral zone 

 

[calmissile]

I'm really liking this new and improved GQ!  The positivity of your posts has made my computer screen glow like the California sun.  I can literally feel the good vibrations you exude.  Perhaps some of your epiphany will rub off on other less blessed posters (you know who you are . . . Ade!)


GQ, you obviously have absorbed the lessons of those who had the patience, over the years, to point to the error of your ways.  Who knows?  Your next lesson may be on everlasting marital bliss, courtesy of one of our (many) multiple married members.

OMG!  It is catching.       Perhaps an epidemic is in the wind.

[JayH]

I'm really liking this new and improved GQ! 

My question was-who is writing  his posts?

From here on is self edited on the basis that truths I wish to state may be considered as derogotory remarks and as a result draw the attention of mods !!

[Daveman]

I disagree, and I agree with missAmeno. 


The starving argument is disingenuous.

Nonsense.. pure and simple

Why did the MOB market dry up in Latvia?  Lithuania?  Estonia?  Why does it not exist in Poland?  Hungary?  The Czech Republic?  Why is it not going gangbusters in Russia, as it did in the mid 1990's?

That just proves the point even further.  It doesn't really matter whether you agree, the definition is clear "mean", "unfair".  The fact of the matter is that they CHOOSE NOT to be as interested and CHOOSE something different. It is still free choice.

Free choice negates ALL of the arguments of MEAN or UNFAIR.  They are presented with a choice. They choose.  Quite simple.

[missAmeno]

Hello Miss Ameno,

I am a little confused by your attitude.  On one hand you criticize men for selecting women from economically disadvantaged countries, and yet being a feminist, you seem to not want these women to improve their conditions if it means marrying 'UP' to someone more wealthy.

Which is it?  You would be happier if the women stay in the conditions they are presently in?  That does not sound very feminist to me.  Somehow I don't see it as exploitation (in the bad sense) unless you want to consider they are exploiting each other.  In some minds, that is not exploitation, but rather a mutual benefit for both parties....... or is it just to criticize the mens side of the equation?

Calmissile,

Actually I do not criticize. But I struggle to understand why some are seeking justifications and acceptable excuses for their actions and decisions. Guys go to FSU because economical situation gives them advantage and they want to use that advantage. Most of FSUW in MOB also would not mind at all of taking advantage. Be it 'marrying 'UP' to someone more wealthy', getting expensive gift and paid holidays trips or having a job (as example pay-per-min dating sites). Most of people in it for some kind of advantage.
What I do not understand (and was point of my previous posts in this thread) is why I suppose to be sorry for the guys who ended up being taken advantage of when they actually by themselves intended to take advantage?

[missAmeno]

Nonsense.. pure and simple

Wise Daveman, don't spoil all the fun 

They choose. Quite simple.

Golden words. They choose to pay to chat with Anastasia girls, they choose to send money, they choose to help to get green card