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Author Topic: Protesters in Ukraine remind us of the priceless benefits of being EU members  (Read 270731 times)

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Offline Muzh

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Re: Protesters in Ukraine remind us of the priceless benefits of being EU members
« Reply #300 on: February 26, 2014, 07:39:53 AM »
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline SteveOR

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Re: Protesters in Ukraine remind us of the priceless benefits of being EU members
« Reply #301 on: February 26, 2014, 07:59:11 AM »
 
Alarm in Ukraine as Putin puts Russian troops on alert
 
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/26/us-ukraine-idUSBREA1G0OU20140226
 
(Reuters) - - President Vladimir Putin put Russian combat troops on high alert for a drill on Wednesday, the Kremlin's most powerful gesture yet after days of sabre rattling since its ally Viktor Yanukovich was toppled as president of Ukraine.
 
Thousands of ethnic Russians, who form the majority in Ukraine's Crimea region, demonstrated for independence for the peninsula that hosts part of Moscow's Black Sea Fleet. They scuffled with rival demonstrators, mainly from the Tatar minority, who support the new authorities in Kiev.
 
 With the political turmoil hammering Ukraine's economy, the hryvnia currency tumbled 4 percent on Wednesday, with ripples spreading to Russia where the rouble fell to five-year lows and bank shares took a hit.
 
 Ukraine's central bank, which has been rapidly burning its hard currency reserves to protect the hryvnia, said it has abandoned a managed exchange rate policy in favor of a flexible currency, a senior official told CNBC TV.
 
 Moscow also denounced what it described as the rise of "nationalist and neo-fascist sentiment" in the country's mainly Ukrainian-speaking western areas, where it said Russian speakers were being deprived of rights. It has repeatedly expressed concern for the safety of Russian citizens in Ukraine.
 
 "In accordance with an order from the president of the Russian Federation, forces of the Western Military District were put on alert at 1400 (0500 ET) today," Interfax news agency quoted Russian Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu as saying.
 
 Since Yanukovich's downfall on Saturday, all eyes have been on Putin, who ordered an invasion of neighboring Georgia in 2008 to protect two self-declared independent regions with many ethnic Russians, which he then recognized as independent states.
 
 Any military action in Ukraine, a country of 46 million people that has close ties with European powers and the United States, would be far more serious - arguably the closest the West and Russia have come to outright confrontation since the Cold War.
 
 NEW CABINET
 
 Ukraine's new leadership plans to name its new cabinet on Wednesday, paving the way for urgent IMF talks to stave off financial meltdown now that Russia is all but certain to cut a $15 billion financial lifeline it offered Yanukovich as the prize for turning his back on ties with the EU in November.
 
 The International Monetary Fund has said it is prepared to send a team of negotiators to Kiev, but a government must first be formed there and request the aid. U.S. Deputy Secretary of State William Burns, visiting Kiev, said American financial experts were already in the country looking for ways to help.
 
 Yanukovich fled his luxurious palace on the outskirts of Kiev on Friday night after days of violence in which scores of his countrymen were killed, including demonstrators shot dead by police snipers from rooftops.
 
 His downfall, three months after he abruptly turned his back on a free trade pact with the European Union to seek closer ties with Russia, has infuriated Moscow, which describes the new authorities as extremists who seized power through force with the aid of Western powers.
 
 Ukraine has suffered an identity crisis throughout two decades of independence from the Soviet Union. With borders drawn by Bolshevik commissars, it is split between a largely Ukrainian-speaking west, including areas annexed by the Soviets from Austria and Poland, and eastern provinces where Russian is spoken, mainly Russian territory since the middle ages.
 
 In the Crimean regional capital Simferopol, pro-Russian crowds, some of them cossacks in silk and lambswool hats, shouted "Crimea is Russian!". Mainly ethnic Tatar demonstrators backing the new authorities rallied under a pale blue flag shouting "Ukraine! Ukraine!"
 
 The regional parliament was due to debate the crisis later on Wednesday. Crimea was administered as part of Russia within the Soviet Union until 1954 when it was attached to Soviet Ukraine, and has seen separatist flareups during previous disagreements between Moscow and Kiev.
 
 However, even in Yanukovich's eastern home region of Donetsk, there was little sign of support for the fugitive leader. His portrait had been taken down at the Donetsk headquarters of Yanukovich's Party of the Regions, where its leader in the provincial parliament Nikolay Zagoruyko said Yanukovich was to blame for the killings while he was president.
 
 "Of course he is guilty," he said without hesitation. "He was the president. The guilt for what happened lies with Yanukovich."
 
 CURRENCY DIVE
 
 The new authorities must salvage the economy of a country near bankruptcy and heavily dependent on Russian gas.
 
 Traders in Kiev said the central bank was absent from the hryvnia market, allowing the national currency to fall to below 10 to the dollar, a fresh record low.
 
 Sergiy Kruglyk, the central bank's international relations director, said Kiev was adopting a new exchange rate policy - a major demand of the IMF. "We've transferred from a fixed, so-called managed exchange rate to the flexible exchange rate," he said.
 
 Year-to-date losses for the once tightly controlled unit are almost 20 percent against the dollar, more than any other major emerging currency in 2014. The further the hryvnia falls, the more difficult it is for Kiev to repay its dollar debt.
 
 The cost of a contract to insure Ukraine's debt for five years rose to more than 10 percent per year on Wednesday, a figure than means traders believe a default is likelier to take place in that timeframe than not.
 
 Oleskander Turchinov, the parliament speaker who assumed the presidential duties after the assembly removed Yanukovich from power on Saturday, took the helm of the armed forces on Wednesday. He is expected to pick a cabinet that will be announced late on Wednesday to crowds in Independence Square, the crucible of the revolt.
 
 Turchinov is an ally of opposition leader Yulia Tymoshenko, who was freed from jail moments before parliament voted to remove Yanukovich. Tymoshenko, herself a former prime minister, has said she is not interested in returning to the job, which could go to Arseny Yatsenyuk, an economist who ran her party while she was jailed.
 
 Retired heavyweight boxing champion Vitaly Klitschko, who has said he will run for president, may also be given a post.
 
 Ukrainians were shocked by the lavish palace that Yanukovich abandoned, which was stocked with a private zoo of rare animals and exotic birds, a floating restaurant built like a pirate ship and a private golf course on land half the size of Monaco.
 
 Yanukovich's precise whereabouts are not known, although the government says it believes he is hiding in Crimea.
 
 Parliament has voted to request he be tried at the International Criminal Court in the Hague over the deaths on the square. On Wednesday the new authorities disbanded the Berkut "Golden Eagle" riot police units blamed by the public for posting sharpshooters on rooftops who killed protesters.
 
 The U.S. Treasury warned banks to be on the look-out for potentially suspicious transfers of assets by Yanukovich or members of his circle.
 
 Ukraine's Soviet-era industry depends on cheap imports of Russian natural gas. It said on Wednesday it had reduced purchases in February, in part because of a mild winter.
 
 (Additional reporting by Gabriela Baczynska in Donetsk and Steve Gutterman in Moscow; Writing by Peter Graff; editing by David Stamp)
 
 
 

Offline The Natural

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Re: Protesters in Ukraine remind us of the priceless benefits of being EU members
« Reply #302 on: February 26, 2014, 08:13:14 AM »
Interesting analysis by Paul Joseph Watson. I also read an article by a Norwegian journalist who is a Washington correspondent, who also mentioned many of the arguments in this youtube Clip.

The Truth About The Ukraine Crisis



Offline Muzh

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Re: Protesters in Ukraine remind us of the priceless benefits of being EU members
« Reply #303 on: February 26, 2014, 08:25:12 AM »
Crimean parliament not to consider separation from Ukraine
 
In a statement Feb. 26, the head of the Crimean Supreme Rada, Volodymyr Konstantinov, dismissed the information disseminated by some media that legislators will discuss the separation of the peninsula from Ukraine at today’s session.
 
“It’s a provocation to discredit the Crimean parliament. The provocation was orchestrated by the Donbas-based gang of criminal politicians currently in power in Crimea.

For them, Crimea is a foreign land,” he said.
 
http://www.widgetserver.com/syndication/l/?instId=93ebba60-e4fe-4227-b231-a923c1774ecc&token=6ef765f6b05f69a1e09eebd66ea852c2936dd37b000001446c9f2538&u=http%3A%2F%2Fzik.ua%2Fen%2Fnews%2F2014%2F02%2F26%2Fcrimean_parliament_not_to_consider_separation_from_ukraine_465118
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline jone

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Re: Protesters in Ukraine remind us of the priceless benefits of being EU members
« Reply #304 on: February 26, 2014, 09:14:19 AM »
I tend to take Muzh and Voyager's views of Tymoshenko.  While Yulia probably wouldn't have ordered the Berkut into Maidan, I do believe she has done many obstructionist things.  She is NOT one to unite the country.  She is quite extremist.

I have many Russian heritage friends in Ukraine. 

It is time to pass the torch to a new generation. Hopefully someone who is not a thug and can construct a unity government.
Kissing girls is a goodness.  It beats the hell out of card games.  - Robert Heinlein

Offline BillyB

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Re: Protesters in Ukraine remind us of the priceless benefits of being EU members
« Reply #305 on: February 26, 2014, 10:11:49 AM »
There is going to be NO invasion.



That's easy to say since you're not responsible for the population of an entire nation. You're entitled to an opinion but those who have family in Ukraine and/or going there should not accept what you say as fact. They have reason to be concerned and Ukraine and the West should be ready to take appropriate actions if Russia makes a move. Putin just ordered all troops in Ukraine to be combat ready.


My guess is that Putin will at a minimum annex the Crimea.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline justme100

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Re: Protesters in Ukraine remind us of the priceless benefits of being EU members
« Reply #306 on: February 26, 2014, 10:25:29 AM »
Justme, really? Do you believe that cartoon?
Most part of people here in Ukraine know it. All Maydan people were paid by America to stand and fight there, so many people quit their main jobs and went to Kiev as there they were paid 1000 grivnas per day.

Offline justme100

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Re: Protesters in Ukraine remind us of the priceless benefits of being EU members
« Reply #307 on: February 26, 2014, 10:27:58 AM »

I bet you everyone disregarded what you said because it is NOT what they want to hear.  :rolleyes:
 
There is going to be NO invasion.
I am afraid it's going to be an invasion. All russian military people here in Sevastopol were told yesterday to evacuate their wives and children asap.

Online Faux Pas

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Re: Protesters in Ukraine remind us of the priceless benefits of being EU members
« Reply #308 on: February 26, 2014, 10:34:37 AM »
Most part of people here in Ukraine know it. All Maydan people were paid by America to stand and fight there, so many people quit their main jobs and went to Kiev as there they were paid 1000 grivnas per day.

I don't believe it. Do you have proof of it in any way? The same with Syria, Libya or Venezuela. Iraq is obviously another story but it wasn't covert as you are suggesting these others were. Any proof at all?

Offline justme100

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Re: Protesters in Ukraine remind us of the priceless benefits of being EU members
« Reply #309 on: February 26, 2014, 10:38:01 AM »
I don't believe it.
Unfortunately this doesn't change the reality.

Offline Muzh

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Re: Protesters in Ukraine remind us of the priceless benefits of being EU members
« Reply #310 on: February 26, 2014, 10:38:55 AM »
Most part of people here in Ukraine know it. All Maydan people were paid by America to stand and fight there, so many people quit their main jobs and went to Kiev as there they were paid 1000 grivnas per day.

This says it all.
 
Credibility down the drain.
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline Muzh

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Re: Protesters in Ukraine remind us of the priceless benefits of being EU members
« Reply #311 on: February 26, 2014, 10:41:25 AM »

That's easy to say since you're not responsible for the population of an entire nation. You're entitled to an opinion but those who have family in Ukraine and/or going there should not accept what you say as fact. They have reason to be concerned and Ukraine and the West should be ready to take appropriate actions if Russia makes a move. Putin just ordered all troops in Ukraine to be combat ready.


My guess is that Putin will at a minimum annex the Crimea.

Which one do you prefer?
 
This one  :rolleyes: ?
 
or this one?
 
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline Ade

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Re: Protesters in Ukraine remind us of the priceless benefits of being EU members
« Reply #312 on: February 26, 2014, 11:00:06 AM »
I don't believe it. Do you have proof of it in any way? The same with Syria, Libya or Venezuela. Iraq is obviously another story but it wasn't covert as you are suggesting these others were. Any proof at all?

As I posted previously, my BiL told us he knows of pensioners in Ukraine that travelled into Kiev to be paid by both sides at some point to protest on their behalf. They made
30k in a month switching sides. Where the money came from is anyone's guess.

Offline justme100

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Re: Protesters in Ukraine remind us of the priceless benefits of being EU members
« Reply #313 on: February 26, 2014, 11:02:52 AM »

And this video even gives a total sum of America's input in this whole bloody stuff( 5 millions..pretty well :( [size=78%]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkAjnMtazDE[/size]

Offline justme100

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Re: Protesters in Ukraine remind us of the priceless benefits of being EU members
« Reply #314 on: February 26, 2014, 11:04:39 AM »
As I posted previously, my BiL told us he knows of pensioners in Ukraine that travelled into Kiev to be paid by both sides at some point to protest on their behalf. They made
30k in a month switching sides. Where the money came from is anyone's guess.
and not only pensioners did this scheme. Students and just ordinary people. As I told people I know quit their official jobs and went to Kiev as it was profitable.

Offline Muzh

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Re: Protesters in Ukraine remind us of the priceless benefits of being EU members
« Reply #315 on: February 26, 2014, 11:19:23 AM »
and not only pensioners did this scheme. Students and just ordinary people. As I told people I know quit their official jobs and went to Kiev as it was profitable.

Dang. Do you have a contact?
 
My idiot inlaws did the stupid thing for free. Maybe they can get better accomodations, food and money.
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline Chelseaboy

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Re: Protesters in Ukraine remind us of the priceless benefits of being EU members
« Reply #316 on: February 26, 2014, 11:25:31 AM »
Looks like some Ukrainians have been watching too many Russian news channels,blasting out anti-west propaganda.

To say all protestors were paid is a blatant lie...and NOT a reality

One forum members wife and mother-in-law joined the protests in Maidan despite his protests,because they believe in freedom and democracy NOT because they were paid.







Just saying it like it is.

Offline justme100

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Re: Protesters in Ukraine remind us of the priceless benefits of being EU members
« Reply #317 on: February 26, 2014, 11:26:38 AM »

Dang. Do you have a contact?
 
My idiot inlaws did the stupid thing for free. Maybe they can get better accomodations, food and money.
it's late :P
and if to be serious, for sure there were people who fought there for their idea, it's our of discussion. Just they were in minority.

Offline justme100

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Re: Protesters in Ukraine remind us of the priceless benefits of being EU members
« Reply #318 on: February 26, 2014, 11:28:04 AM »
Looks like some Ukrainians have been watching too many Russian news channels,blasting out anti-west propaganda.

To say all protestors were paid is a blatant lie...and NOT a reality

One forum members wife and mother-in-law joined the protests in Maidan despite his protests,because they believe in freedom and democracy NOT because they were paid.
Yes, I said already, for sure there were people there who fought for their idea.
Freedom with Europe?Huge lol)

Offline Ranetka

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Re: Protesters in Ukraine remind us of the priceless benefits of being EU members
« Reply #319 on: February 26, 2014, 11:30:34 AM »
My post has disappeared. Sorry but its true, i have relatives in Ukraine also on Russian Ukrainian border. Only s'oken to my unkle yesterday. Western media does not report it for some reason
There are shortcuts to happiness and dancing is one of them.

I do resent the fact that most people never question or think for themselves. I don't want to be normal. I just want to find some other people that are odd in the same ways that I am. OP.

Offline justme100

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Re: Protesters in Ukraine remind us of the priceless benefits of being EU members
« Reply #320 on: February 26, 2014, 11:33:14 AM »
My post has disappeared. Sorry but its true, i have relatives in Ukraine also on Russian Ukrainian border. Only s'oken to my unkle yesterday. Western media does not report it for some reason
I found out that Western media in fact blocked most part of information coming from here. My numerous relatives in USA say that they csn't see anyhting casted directly from here, only USA processed info on local channels/.

Offline Ranetka

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Re: Protesters in Ukraine remind us of the priceless benefits of being EU members
« Reply #321 on: February 26, 2014, 11:37:05 AM »
Muzh my tablet does not support Russian or Ukrainian. You  just need to google, there is plenty of phone numbers...it's quite in the open....
There are shortcuts to happiness and dancing is one of them.

I do resent the fact that most people never question or think for themselves. I don't want to be normal. I just want to find some other people that are odd in the same ways that I am. OP.

Offline The Natural

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Re: Protesters in Ukraine remind us of the priceless benefits of being EU members
« Reply #322 on: February 26, 2014, 11:38:13 AM »
It's been Public knowledge for those who search a little that protesters were paid, from both sides. I don't remember where I found the Facebook links, but they were in Russian and my wife confirmed it and told me how much they paid for the different protest "services". People in the west are naive about it, they just can't believe their governments can be anything less than  100% of good intentions for the people in countries they want to democratize. But Russian people are not as naive, that's clear to me. It's not without reason that Russia declared that all foreign NGO's in Russia be closely monitored and viewed as foreign agents. I believe the move on Ukraine now is really a move against the interest sphere of Russia. It's a very dangerous game!

Offline Chelseaboy

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Re: Protesters in Ukraine remind us of the priceless benefits of being EU members
« Reply #323 on: February 26, 2014, 11:39:04 AM »
Yes justme100,

                      Freedom with Europe..in case you hadn't noticed Poland has done rather well since joining the EU...and left Ukraine trailing in it's wake.

Joining the EU isn't on the table now,not until the corruption is eradicated from Ukraine,but one things for sure if you keep doing the same things,then you'll get the same results..and your link with Russia hasn't done your country much good so far has it ?
Just saying it like it is.

Offline CanadaMan

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Re: Protesters in Ukraine remind us of the priceless benefits of being EU members
« Reply #324 on: February 26, 2014, 11:40:32 AM »
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/pro-ukraine-and-pro-russia-groups-in-crimea-clash-20-injured-1.2551705

Fistfights broke out between pro- and anti-Russian demonstrators in Ukraine's strategic Crimea region on Wednesday as Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered massive military exercises just across the border.
The tests of military readiness involve most of the military units in central and western Russia, Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu said in a televised statement. He said the exercise would "check the troops' readiness for action in crisis situations that threaten the nation's military security."


Right! Simply a test for military readiness.  :)

Russia is afraid of a threat to their Russia-Ukraine border.  :)
Can I sell you a piece of land?

 

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