Protesters in Ukraine remind us of the priceless benefits of being EU members

[Ade]

Wouldn't your BiL live in Arkhangelsk? If he does, how exactly would he know of any pensioners being paid 30k per month as Arkhangelsk is over 2000km away from Kyiv? His likely source of information would thus have been some form of media (television, radio or online)...

My wife's family extends into Ukraine. And, fwiw, besides my wife, if there's a Russian I'd trust without question it would be my BiL. It seems that there are others on the ground that agree that many were being paid to protest. I'm not saying how many but I can't imagine it would be worthwhile unless it was in large numbers. I'm not for a minute suggesting the source of the funds.

[Misha]

My wife's family extends into Ukraine. And, fwiw, besides my wife, if there's a Russian I'd trust without question it would be my BiL. It seems that there are others on the ground that agree that many were being paid to protest. I'm not saying how many but I can't imagine it would be worthwhile unless it was in large numbers. I'm not for a minute suggesting the source of the funds.

You didn't answer my question. Does he not live in Arkhangelsk? Relatives in Ukraine could be second, third or fourth cousins. Yes, the Russian media is saying that protestors are being paid, but I would not accept it as absolute truth..,

[pokerintherear]

Russia with an annexed Ukraine is an Empire

Russia without Ukraine is a Country

[Ade]

You didn't answer my question. Does he not live in Arkhangelsk? Relatives in Ukraine could be second, third or fourth cousins. Yes, the Russian media is saying that protestors are being paid, but I would not accept it as absolute truth..,

Yes he does. Modern tech is quite advanced now though and it's quite surprising that you can talk to people that are quite far away.

If you want to try discredit what I wrote because you don't want to believe people were paid to protest, go right ahead - I don't particularly care if people believe or not.

[Ranetka]

You didn't answer my question. Does he not live in Arkhangelsk? Relatives in Ukraine could be second, third or fourth cousins. Yes, the Russian media is saying that protestors are being paid, but I would not accept it as absolute truth..,

Are you disregarding me or my ankle? For gd sake google and call the numbers.....or read Russian-Ukrainian forums,


too much of cognitive dissonance.....nnot reported in Western media means never happened.....

[Misha]

Yes he does. Modern tech is quite advanced now though and it's quite surprising that you can talk to people that are quite far away.

Yes, and modern technology is actually quite good at accelerating the dissemination of urban legends and false information.

If you want to try discredit what I wrote because you don't want to believe people were paid to protest, go right ahead - I don't particularly care if people believe or not.

In other words, you heard it from your BiL, who maybe heard it from a distant relative, who in turn heard it from who knows where.... Such chains of communication were also typical when it came to the dissemination of urban legends 

[Misha]

Are you disregarding me or my ankle? For gd sake google and call the numbers.....or read Russian-Ukrainian forums,


too much of cognitive dissonance.....nnot reported in Western media means never happened.....

No, but rationally speaking, most people who are being paid to protest won't take a bullet for the cause. Also, it is evident that the Russian PR machine is going full swing and that it is in their interest to try and convince people, both in Russia and foreigners, that the protesters were paid and that they do not represent the population etc... One must question everything in such situations.

[Ade]

No, but rationally speaking, most people who are being paid to protest won't take a bullet for the cause. Also, it is evident that the Russian PR machine is going full swing and that it is in their interest to try and convince people, both in Russia and foreigners, that the protesters were paid and that they do not represent the population etc... One must question everything in such situations.

No one is implying that there weren't a lot of stupid people charging armed police lines for free with nothing more than a piece of tin and an ideological urge between them and a bullet. Or that there ain't a whole load of propaganda being spun by many.

But none of that precludes paid protestors either. I certainly believe my BiL and trust his judgement of the source - he's far from stupid. Given the country we are talking about and the endemic corruption there it kind of fits too. But, believe what you want or what your wife wants you to...

[justme100]

 that they do not represent the population

they evidently don't represent population. meaning the interests of the most part of population.

[Ranetka]

An there is a rumor that 38 rada members of communist fraction have been killed. Based on the fact that their not shown in any recording, does not make any speaches etc....but their votes are counted. RAda votes unanimously.

[Misha]

But, believe what you want or what your wife wants you to...

No, Ade, I am perfectly capable of my own analysis so there is no need for your to project.

[justme100]

this video explains perfectly all the reasons and consequences. Unfortunately only in russian.

[Misha]

this video explains perfectly all the reasons and consequences. Unfortunately only in russian.

I am watching it now. So far the only proof the protestors were being "paid" is the screen shot of an SMS that is certainly not something that I would consider as valid "proof."

[CanadaMan]

An excellent comprehensive write-up on the situation in Ukraine.
Americans probably won't like it though.

http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2014/02/26/euromaidan-coup/

[justme100]

I am watching it now. So far the only proof the protestors were being "paid" is the screen shot of an SMS that is certainly not something that I would consider as valid "proof."

In fact I don't have any aim of prooving anything.Everyone in Ukraine in the middle of events knows it's fact, it was even not hidden. As well as the results of these "works" are not hidden, I mean new cars bought etc. as the salaries on Maydan were really nice, especially for those, who managed to be paid from both parts.

[JayH]

Instead of fracturing existing threads and see a proliferation of new ones it seemed like a good idea to create a thread for current hot news that might blow out into a thread.
In the current Ukrainian situation there are many pieces of information(maybe news) floating around -some well ahead of traditional media which will cover the events in retrospect.
There is another serious aspect to this--last week in the heat of a fast moving situation many of those with friends and/or relatives were hungry for any up to date information --firstly in concern for their safety and what they should do. Secondly there was the potential to run out of food,money etc as all over Ukraine people emptied ATMs and some banks were unable to replenish.
The point being-- sometimes we ( not in Ukraine we!) are able to see information that may not be available there.
Making some sort of central point in one thread  here for forum members makes sense to me.Right now things have stabilised a little--but the country is alive with rumours.

[Misha]

In fact I don't have any aim of prooving anything.Everyone in Ukraine in the middle of events knows it's fact, it was even not hidden. As well as the results of these "works" are not hidden, I mean new cars bought etc. as the salaries on Maydan were really nice, especially for those, who managed to be paid from both parts.

Do they actually know it for real, or do they know it based on what they saw on television? Russian television did invest a lot of time and energy in presenting a very one-sided account of the events going on in Ukraine. This does a nice job explaining it: [size=78%]http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/russia-ukraine.s1w[/size]

[justme100]

Do they actually know it for real, or do they know it based on what they saw on television?

Misha, I don't have TV at home for about 3 years already. I mentioned several times that I personally know people who were there for money. It;s about 20 people. And I am sure they are more in fact, just not everyone has courage to confess it aloud. It's you who get info from TV and internet, people here know what is going on around them as it's not hidden at all.

[fathertime]

In recent times it seems like every time there is a revolt in a country we(the USA) is getting blamed for fomenting or aiding the revolutionaries.  I think we (the USA) should just stfu (especially kerry and mccain) and let these countries figure out their own messes.  We don't need to be commenting, encouraging, or paying/arming, anybody...if they want to revolt and kill each other, then let them do what they are going to do and do business with whoever is left standing. 


Fathertime!   

[Misha]

Misha, I don't have TV at home for about 3 years already. I mentioned several times that I personally know people who were there for money. It;s about 20 people. And I am sure they are more in fact, just not everyone has courage to confess it aloud. It's you who get info from TV and internet, people here know what is going on around them as it's not hidden at all.

I just want to see if I understand correctly. Were there people from your city? They were from the Crimea? They were recruited to go to Kyiv/Kiev to protest?

[justme100]

I just want to see if I understand correctly. Were there people from your city? They were from the Crimea? They were recruited to go to Kyiv/Kiev to protest?

Yes, you understnd it correct. They are from my city and they were on Maydan from money. People were recruited from everywhere. They needed quantity and they couldn't find enough people in Kiev.

[Misha]

Yes, you understnd it correct. They are from my city and they were on Maydan from money. People were recruited from everywhere. They needed quantity and they couldn't find enough people in Kiev.

How much did they say they were paid?

[Stirlitz]

Timoshonka is absolutely the same as all the other professional thiefs, er, politicians in Ukraine. So she should serve her term along with Yanukovich and others.
Do you know why Yanukovich put her into prison? He did not like competition.

[justme100]

up to 1000 grivnas per day.

[Hammer2722]

up to 1000 grivnas per day.

Its Ukraine, I guess anyone's vote is for sale. That's Ukraine will always be dominated by corrupt people whether they work for Putin or any other person.