Protesters in Ukraine remind us of the priceless benefits of being EU members

[steveboy]

Is that why you married a foreign woman and live in Russia steveboy  ?

People living in glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones 

I did not marry a foreign women I live here! I see sado's like you every day, no hope, nobody wants you so you think you can pick up some women from "Dumpski" as you call it.
Shows what you think of the women's country. I think even a women from "Dumpski" will not wish to be in your slimy presence. As I suggest homosexuality is your only hope

[justme100]

As I suggest homosexuality is your only hope

[justme100]

justme100,

                You have previously stated you work at the NAVAL base every day except Saturday and Sunday.

So,i assume you happened to be at the Simferopol ARMY base by chance today (Sunday)and can confirm the English Sky News reporters  are lying ?

chanced to hear about mobilization in country?):

[lordtiberius]

Is all of this going to be in the next comic?

I already have a comic and if you'd bother to read the first five pages, free on the internet then you would know that the author is not me and was born in the Soviet Union.

Secondly, I have been right to call this a revolution, right that Timoshenko would be free, right that Yanukovych would be gone, right about Putin seizing Crimea and right about an invasion pending.  So the scenario I painted was a grim one.  But given Obama's performance during the Syria crisis, that is the worst case:



This next week will be critical.  Russia doesn't trade with us - the Empire as Steve has dubbed it. They trade with Europe and Germany which is why what they think and what they will do is more important than what Barack thinks.  If it was just Barack, Vladimir would be in a T-80 tank shooting up monuments to Polish patriots in Lviv in a week.  The only thing holding Putin back is world opinion. He has to sell his gas on the open market or he is screwed.

I don't think he wants to get kicked out of the G8 but getting Ukraine back all of it. He might.  He may not have the logistical support to support a large scale invasion.  I think he also realizes that Ukraine could turn into an Afghanistan or larger Chechenya.


He has to stay in power. He could use nukes to do it. 

So the question becomes what should Western policy be?  The Western Navies should block Russian naval access out of the Black Sea, the Barrents Sea and the Pacific.  If the Russians do not withdraw within 48 hours then, then sanctions take effect and Russia becomes a pariah state.  If the Russians comply, promise a vote to happen within a year in Crimea on secession.

If the Russians do not comply, have Ukraine become an ally of NATO.  We have bases in Germany, Romania and Turkey.  We could respond to crisis but Europe has to lead - the US from a leadership POV is weak.

[steveboy]

The whole situation is blown out of proportion, Russia is just protecting its people. It will probably land up like the Transnistria situation.
What pees me off is next month I was taking the bus from Tiraspol to St Petersburg, via Ukraine and Belarus (Where the last European dictator is still in power) lol that trip would of just cost me just $100 for 4 of us.
Last week the bus was attacked by Neo Nazi thugs just outside Kiev, I just heard it was attacked for the second time this week, again by Neo Nazi thugs. Im not sure if the second case is true yet. But they have cancelled all buses going through Ukraine for the safety of passengers.

So looks like I will have to fly over the trouble, thanks to the "Empire" thats going to cost me more(( and you know many Brits are penny pinchers.

[steveboy]

I already have a comic and if you'd bother to read the first five pages, free on the internet then you would know that the author is not me and was born in the Soviet Union.

Secondly, I have been right to call this a revolution, right that Timoshenko would be free, right that Yanukovych would be gone, right about Putin seizing Crimea and right about an invasion pending.  So the scenario I painted was a grim one.  But given Obama's performance during the Syria crisis, that is the worst case:



This next week will be critical.  Russia doesn't trade with us - the Empire as Steve has dubbed it. They trade with Europe and Germany which is why what they think and what they will do is more important than what Barack thinks.  If it was just Barack, Vladimir would be in a T-80 tank shooting up monuments to Polish patriots in Lviv in a week.  The only thing holding Putin back is world opinion. He has to sell his gas on the open market or he is screwed.

I don't think he wants to get kicked out of the G8 but getting Ukraine back all of it. He might.  He may not have the logistical support to support a large scale invasion.  I think he also realizes that Ukraine could turn into an Afghanistan or larger Chechenya.


He has to stay in power. He could use nukes to do it. 

So the question becomes what should Western policy be?  The Western Navies should block Russian naval access out of the Black Sea, the Barrents Sea and the Pacific.  If the Russians do not withdraw within 48 hours then, then sanctions take effect and Russia becomes a pariah state.  If the Russians comply, promise a vote to happen within a year in Crimea on secession.

If the Russians do not comply, have Ukraine become an ally of NATO.  We have bases in Germany, Romania and Turkey.  We could respond to crisis but Europe has to lead - the US from a leadership POV is weak.

Why have you so many cushions against your window?? Are you preparing for something?

[lordtiberius]

Why have you so many cushions against your window?? Are you preparing for something?

Waiting for you sweety.  Me love you long time.

We disagree on politics but we're still friends!

[steveboy]

Waiting for you sweety.  Me love you long time.

We disagree on politics but we're still friends!

I love you too)) I have nothing personal against every US person. Just the lot running the "Empire"
I thought maybe you was preparing for a Nuke attack or something
Your still welcome round for a beer any time your in "Dumpski"

[lordtiberius]

I love you too)) I have nothing personal against every US person. Just the lot running the "Empire"
I thought maybe you was preparing for a Nuke attack or something
Your still welcome round for a beer any time your in "Dumpski"

The British know how to run an Empire

[steveboy]

The British know how to run an Empire

That was back in the 19th Century, they couldn't organise a p*** up in a brewery today. There is no room in the modern world for an Empire

[BillyB]

My goodness..  there aren't enough airplanes, boats and cars to get 675,000 out of Ukraine to Russia in only a few days....  I doubt many have done so and would like to see evidence of such.

I had to look that up myself and that is the number thrown out there based off a couple of months according to the Russian news agency below.

http://rt.com/news/ukrainians-leave-russia-border-452/


It is possible to move over a million people a day on one highway alone. Amount of daily cars driving on highways below and if each car is full, then it's easy to achieve a million.

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/tables/02.cfm

[BillyB]

Just read some news articles and if some of you don't know how wars starts, all it takes is one bullet from an upset, nervous soldier to start a small skirmish that can balloon into war. Here are some quotes from the news article that gives us insight on what Ukrainian and Russian troops orders are presently.


Igor Mamchev, a Ukrainian navy colonel at a small base near the regional capital Simferopol, told Ukraine's Channel 5 television a truckload of Russian troops had arrived at his checkpoint and told his forces to lay down their arms.

"I replied that, as I am a member of the armed forces of Ukraine, under orders of the Ukrainian navy, there could be no discussion of disarmament. In case of any attempt to enter the military base, we will use all means, up to lethal force.

"We are military people, who have given our oath to the people of Ukraine and will carry out our duty until the end."

Dmytro Delyatytskiy, commander of Ukrainian marines barricaded into a base in the Crimean port of Feodosia, told the same television station by telephone he had refused a Russian demand that his troops give up weapons by 10 a.m.

[justme100]

Just read some news articles and if some of you don't know how wars starts, all it takes is one bullet from an upset, nervous soldier to start a small skirmish that can balloon into war. Here are some quotes from the news article that gives us insight on what Ukrainian and Russian troops orders are presently.


Igor Mamchev, a Ukrainian navy colonel at a small base near the regional capital Simferopol, told Ukraine's Channel 5 television a truckload of Russian troops had arrived at his checkpoint and told his forces to lay down their arms.

"I replied that, as I am a member of the armed forces of Ukraine, under orders of the Ukrainian navy, there could be no discussion of disarmament. In case of any attempt to enter the military base, we will use all means, up to lethal force.

"We are military people, who have given our oath to the people of Ukraine and will carry out our duty until the end."

Dmytro Delyatytskiy, commander of Ukrainian marines barricaded into a base in the Crimean port of Feodosia, told the same television station by telephone he had refused a Russian demand that his troops give up weapons by 10 a.m.

a little upgrade, Feodosiya had to give up finally and now blocked as well.
and this is headquarters of the Navy in Sevastopol today.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPS_Qf4_-1g&feature=youtu.be

[justme100]

Ukrainian Navy officially announced it takes part of Russia and obeys from now on only to the head of Crimean Republic!Yes!!!!!!!Today is a really historical day, Ukraine has no more Navy!

[LAman]

Ukrainian Navy officially announced it takes part of Russia and obeys from now on only to the head of Crimean Republic!Yes!!!!!!!Today is a really historical day, Ukraine has no more Navy!

Justme..... what do you think of the referendum coming this month to decide the future status of Crimea? Which will pass....... whether the region should retain its current status as an autonomous region in Ukraine, to become independent, or become part of Russia again?

I have heard several people say they don't mind the Russians being in Crimea but do not want to be part of Russia again.

[jone]

Ukrainian Navy officially announced it takes part of Russia and obeys from now on only to the head of Crimean Republic!  Yes!!!!!!!  Today is a really historical day, Ukraine has no more Navy!

And this woman isn't anti-Ukraine and an extremist?  I know people in Kharkiv who are petrified that they will be killed.  Simply because they are of Ukrainian, not Russian heritage.  It is because of [moderated] like this lady, that the fear is manifest.

She speaks of murders and rapes (supposedly made by EuroMaidan activists) as the justification for her extremism.  Yet when asked to produce any third party, verified evidence, she defers. 

Many of you, like me, have friends who live in Ukraine - many of you have family.  Now is the time to stand up to extremism, whether it be from the Maidan side or people like this (who feel insulated from any retaliation).

At some point calmer heads and wisdom must prevail.  How many people must die before this happens?

[Misha]

My goodness..  there aren't enough airplanes, boats and cars to get 675,000 out of Ukraine to Russia in only a few days....  I doubt many have done so and would like to see evidence of such.

Lacking photo evidence, the Russian media used photos from a Ukrainian border post with POLAND  Sigh, I miss Soviet propaganda, at least they didn't make such rookie mistakes LOL!

[JayH]

Ongoing situation-- shots fired

"See information about the attack on the Ukrainian Russian special forces military unit A4515 (airfield Bel'bek). Russian military captured the airfield with the aircraft and the command post. Now try to grab two weapons caches. Attacking force about such - 450-500 infantry with various types of weapons, 12 KAMAZ and 2 APCs. Ukrainian military barricaded, put sandbags and declared that they would not surrender warehouses. Russian special forces threw in two Ukrainians stun grenades. In response, the Ukrainian military made ​​a few warning shots into the air. The confrontation continues. On the part of the military camp are women and children (military families)."

ADDED- Current at time of post
Vitaly Portnykov journalist: "David Cameron and Bronislaw Komorowski just spoke with Barack Obama about Ukraine. Meaning both conversations - tough condemnation of Russian actions and the need to formulate a clear strategy for the Allies against the Russian aggression."
More--
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/02/ukraine-warns-russia-crimea-war-live

1.11pm GMT Inside a besieged Crimean marine base
The Guardian’s Shaun Walker has been given exclusive access to the inside of a Ukrainian marine base in Feodosia, Crimea, which has been surrounded by Russian troops.

Shaun describes how confusion has descended at times:

Inside the base at Feodosia, word came that the order had come from Kiev that all marines should give up their weapons voluntarily to the Russians.

One of the marines then read on Facebook that the news was apparently fake, and rushed off to inform his superiors who were in negotiations with Russians.

Many of the marines were on the phone to friends at other bases, asking whether they had been forced to give up their weapons.

The Ukrainian marine base at Feodosia, Crimea, which has been surrounded by Russian troops.
The Ukrainian marine base at Feodosia, Crimea, which has been surrounded by Russian troops. Photograph: IBL/REX
Those inside the base have been asked “firmly but politely” by the Russians to give up their weapons. Shaun asked one marine what would happen if the Russians came with orders rather than requests. He was told:

I am Russian myself, I was born there but we are professional soldiers and we have given an oath of duty. We will not give up this place without a fight.

[Chelseaboy]

It is clear that justme100 has no love for Ukraine.

Having spoken to people from other regions of Ukraine,including Nikolaev and Dnepropetrovsk ,many of them now consider the Crimeans as traitors.

When I suggested that maybe Crimea could/should be given back to Russia,their response was "No..it's our land "

True Ukrainians are very patriotic,something the likes of steveboy and justme100 fail to comprehend,assuming the latter is actually Ukrainian.

[JayH]

It is clear that justme100 has no love for Ukraine.

Having spoken to people from other regions of Ukraine,including Nikolaev and Dnepropetrovsk ,many of them now consider the Crimeans as traitors.

When I suggested that maybe Crimea could/should be given back to Russia,their response was "No..it's our land "

Certainly one of the very sad  aspects for me is to see Ukrainians against Ukrainians. To go from hope to despair in days is very sad to see.

A quote--
♥Want dopomogti Ukraїnі - Roby to repost it to storіnku i ask blizkih druziv pіdpisatisya on spіvtovaristvo, ob'єdnuєmosya! Friends! It's a bad time to Ukraine. We have forgotten our history, we have forgotten how our country was divided in the past and do not notice giving the opportunity to share it now! Our country needs more than ever in the unity of East and West. Time to forget about the politicians who stubbornly and persistently divided us to get to power and multiply their wealth! We were told that people in the East and the West are very different, has different objectives. 's not true! We have a common goal - to live better. It is time to put aside our differences and stop the terrible storm that is coming to our country! Maximum repost for United♥

[tfcrew]

The British know how to run lose an Empire

  http://www.victorianschool.co.uk/empire.html

[Larry1]

I came across this interesting analysis of Russian actions in Ukraine. The prediction is in the last paragraph: Putin will next move to occupy Eastern Ukraine.

Putin's War in Crimea Could Soon Spread to Eastern Ukraine
And nobody—not the U.S., not NATO—can stop him

BY JULIA IOFFE

Vladimir Putin has asked the Federation Council—the upper chamber of Russia's dummy parliament—to authorize the use of force not just in Crimea, but "on Ukraine's territory until the socio-political situation is normalized." And though American spies and the Washington Post categorically ruled this out just days ago, this was not entirely unexpected. The situation is changing rapidly, but here are some initial thoughts.

Why is Putin doing this? Because he can. That's it, that's all you need to know. The situation in Kiev—in which people representing one half of the country (the Ukrainian-speaking west) took power to some extent at the expense of the Russian-speaking east—created the perfect opportunity for Moscow to divide and conquer. As soon as the revolution in Kiev happened, there was an unhappy rumbling in the Crimea, which has a large Russian population and is home to the Russian Black Sea Fleet. It was a small rumbling, but just big enough for Russia to exploit. And when such an opportunity presents itself, one would be foolish not to take it, especially if one's name is Vladimir Putin.

We didn't think Putin would do this. Why, exactly? This has often puzzled me about Western analysis of Russia. It is often predicated on wholly Western logic: surely, Russia won't invade [Georgia, Ukraine, whoever's next] because war is costly and the Russian economy isn't doing well and surely Putin doesn't want another hit to an already weak ruble; because Russia doesn't need to conquer Crimea if Crimea is going to secede on its own; Russia will not want to risk the geopolitical isolation, and "what's really in it for Russia?"—stop. Russia, or, more accurately, Putin, sees the world according to his own logic, and the logic goes like this: it is better to be feared than loved, it is better to be overly strong than to risk appearing weak, and Russia was, is, and will be an empire with an eternal appetite for expansion. And it will gather whatever spurious reasons it needs to insulate itself territorially from what it still perceives to be a large and growing NATO threat. Trying to harness Russia with our own logic just makes us miss Putin's next steps.

Pessimism always wins. One of the reasons I left my correspondent's post in Moscow was because Russia, despite all the foam on the water, is ultimately a very boring place. Unfortunately, all you really need to do to seem clairvoyant about the place is to be an utter pessimist. Will Vladimir Putin allow the ostensibly liberal Dmitry Medvedev to have a second term? Not a chance. There are protests in the streets of Moscow. Will Putin crackdown? Yup. There's rumbling in the Crimea, will Putin take advantage and take the Crimean peninsula? You betcha. And you know why being a pessimist is the best way to predict outcomes in Russia? Because Putin and those around him are, fundamentally, terminal pessimists. They truly believe that there is an American conspiracy afoot to topple Putin, that Russian liberals are traitors corrupted by and loyal to the West, they truly believe that, should free and fair elections be held in Russia, their countrymen would elect bloodthirsty fascists, rather than democratic liberals. To a large extent, Putin really believes that he is the one man standing between Russia and the yawning void. Putin's Kremlin is dark and scary, and, ultimately, very boring.

Remember the U.N.? Russia loves the U.N. Anytime the U.S. or Europe want to do anything on the world stage, Russia pipes up, demanding the issue be taken to the U.N. for the inevitable Russian veto. As Steven Lee Meyers, Moscow correspondent for the New York Times, pointed out, Russia does not seem to even remember that the institution exists today. Ditto for all that talk of "political solutions" and "diplomatic solutions" and "dialogue" we heard about in Syria. In other words, what we are seeing today—Russia's unilateral declaration of war—is the clearest statement yet of Russia's actual position: Putin empathizes with Bashar al-Assad as a fellow leader holding his country back from the brink and doing the dirty work that needs to be done to accomplish that, and the U.N. is just a convenient mechanism for keeping nay-sayers with large armies at bay.

As I wrote earlier this month, Russia, like the U.S., projects its own mindset onto the rest of the world. So when you hear Putin and his foreign minister Sergei Lavrov and the talking heads on Russia Today crowing about American cynicism and machinations, well, keep in mind whom they're really talking about.

Speaking of America. Today's meeting of the Federation Council was an incredible sight to behold. Man after Soviet-looking man mounted the podium to deliver a short diatribe against...you name it. Against Ukrainian fascism, against Swedes, and, most of all, against America. One would think that it wasn't the illegitimate government in Kiev occupying Russian Crimea—which, lordy lord, if we're going to get ethnic, let's recall who originally lived there—but the 82nd Airborne. The vice speaker of the Council even demanded recalling the Russian ambassador to Washington. America was amazingly, fantastically behind events in Kiev and proved utterly inept at influencing them, and yet none of that seemed to matter. America, the old foe, was everywhere, its fat capitalist fingers in every Slavic pie. Watching the Federation Council, where few of the speakers seemed to be under the age of 60, I couldn't escape the feeling that this was an opportunity for Russia not just to take back some land it's long considered its rightful own, but to settle all scores and to tie up all loose ends. You know, while they're at it.

Double standards. This is another howl you often hear rending the skies over Moscow: Western double standards. But let's get real for a second. We've spoken already about the U.N., but what about the holy Russian mantra of non-interference in a nation's internal affairs? When it comes to Syria, to take a most recent example, the fight between Assad and the rebels is something only the Syrians can sort out. Ditto every other country in the world—unless it's in Russia's backyard, where Russia still experiences phantom limb syndrome. The internal issues of former Soviet republics, you see, are not truly internal issues of sovereign nations. This is because, by Stalin's very conscious design and very deliberate border drawing and population movement, most former Soviet republics are ethnic hodgepodges. So Ukraine has a sizable Russian population. Ditto Estonia, ditto Georgia, ditto Kazakhstan. And, according to Putin's unspoken doctrine, anywhere Russian citizens are determined to be at risk, Mother Moscow can intercede with force on their behalf.

In other, blunter words, Russian ethnicity and citizenship trump national sovereignty. At the very least, they provide a convenient pretext for territorial expansion, as they did in South Ossetia and Abkhazia, where Russia was also ostensibly protecting Russian citizens—also newly minted for the occasion. Just this week, for instance, Russia introduced a law to make it easier for Ukrainians to get Russian citizenship—you know, to give Russia someone to protect.

Russia manufactured this crisis to create a pretext for a land-grab. There are now protests swinging Russian flags and hailing Russia's glory not just in Crimea but all over the Russian-speaking east of Ukraine. I was just in Donetsk, Yanukovich's hometown, on Monday. It was calm, calmer than calm. There were a couple dozen people guarding the Lenin statue in the center of the city from vandals, but that was it. A muckety-muck in the city's administration told me, "If they send new people in to replace us, we'll leave peacefully, we won't try to hang on." The same was the case in Simferopol, in Crimea. And then, out of nowhere, men with unmarked uniforms were taking over government buildings and airports, and huge demonstrations were pumping on town squares all over the regions. The Kremlin often refers to "a well-organized informational war" when their enemies broadcast something they don't like on repeat. And now, looking at the alarmist, blanket coverage on Russian television—now all loyal to the Kremlin—about fascists and radicals staging a coup in Kiev, it's hard to think of a better term. This was indeed a well-organized informational war.

Neither America nor NATO can stop this. They've shown they won't in Georgia, because nobody wants to start a war with nuclear-armed Russia, and rightly so. So while Washington and Brussels huff and puff about lines and sovereignty and diplomacy, Russia will do what it needs to do and there's not a thing we can do about it.

Russia's next target is eastern Ukraine. Because pessimism conquers all, don't bet that Putin is going to stop once he wrests Crimea from Kiev's orbit. Eastern, Russian-speaking Ukraine—and all its heavy industry—is looking pretty good right now. And if you're thinking "Why would Putin take eastern Ukraine?," well, you haven't been reading very carefully.

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/1...o-wont-do-much

[jone]

US To Offer Drone Support???

In a rumor, soon to be outed, the United States government is contemplating utilizing its sophisticated drone forces to equalize any advantage held by Russian forces in battles with Ukrainian forces.  This unprecedented use of drones would be staged from another country (Europe??) and allow not only intelligence gathering but direct confrontation weapons with troops deployed in Ukraine against the current Ukrainian government.

Such a measured response would be in line with targeting sites currently occupied by Russian troops in Crimea as well as along the Eastern border of Ukraine, should Russia try to send troops currently staging exercises across.

While I personally don't think that Obama has the cojones to take this step, several of my contacts close to the US Government tell me that such a response has been submitted to Members of Congress for their consideration.  It has long been thought that Russia does not have the technology to detect such weapons use and that the US has escalated its sophistication using these drones in conflicts in the Middle East.

[lordtiberius]

And this woman isn't anti-Ukraine and an extremist?  I know people in Kharkiv who are petrified that they will be killed.  Simply because they are of Ukrainian, not Russian heritage.  It is because of whacked out, internet nut jobs, like this lady, that the fear is manifest.

She speaks of murders and rapes (supposedly made by EuroMaidan activists) as the justification for her extremism.  Yet when asked to produce any third party, verified evidence, she defers. 

Many of you, like me, have friends who live in Ukraine - many of you have family.  Now is the time to stand up to extremism, whether it be from the Maidan side or people like this (who feel insulated from any retaliation).

At some point calmer heads and wisdom must prevail.  How many people must die before this happens?

Quite frankly the fact is many of us have been advocating for an aggressive foreign policy toward Vladimir Vladimirovich for quite some time.  Glad to see you FINALLY arriving to the same conclusion.  You can stand up to Justme100 all you want, the only thing that will stop  Vladimir Vladimirovich and his guns, tanks, jets and ships is more guns, tanks, jets and ships.  You as a man of some military training know this.  The time for talk is over.

All ships bound for Russia must be stopped, seized and re-routed and failing this they must be sunk.  NATO must mobilize all its forces along Russia's borders.  NATO jets must fly over Ukraine and when and if Putin withdraws, THEN we can talk.  But not until afterward . . . better late than never I say.

[calmissile]

US To Offer Drone Support???

In a rumor, soon to be outed, the United States government is contemplating utilizing its sophisticated drone forces to equalize any advantage held by Russian forces in battles with Ukrainian forces.  This unprecedented use of drones would be staged from another country (Europe??) and allow not only intelligence gathering but direct confrontation weapons with troops deployed in Ukraine against the current Ukrainian government.

Such a measured response would be in line with targeting sites currently occupied by Russian troops in Crimea as well as along the Eastern border of Ukraine, should Russia try to send troops currently staging exercises across.

While I personally don't think that Obama has the cojones to take this step, several of my contacts close to the US Government tell me that such a response has been submitted to Members of Congress for their consideration.  It has long been thought that Russia does not have the technology to detect such weapons use and that the US has escalated its sophistication using these drones in conflicts in the Middle East.

Support from the USA might be just wishful thinking.  Other than flapping our gums, I don't see this administration doing anything more.  The time to act would have been before the Russians got so entrenched.

Obama does not even seem to understand that Putin flipped him the finger last night.