Protesters in Ukraine remind us of the priceless benefits of being EU members

[ML]

GARRY KASPAROV on Putin    16 March 2014

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/03/vladmir-putin-crimea-hitler-1938-104711.html?ml=po_r#.UycSLYX4Iko

[Wayne]

Notice to Passengers Traveling to Simferopol  17.03.2014
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[justme100]

The end.

[Muzh]

http://www.echo.msk.ru/
It's on Russian. It's Russian radio.

Isn't that like Fox News here? 

[pokerintherear]

It's already done in fact. Even before referendum Sevastopol got from Moscow 60 units of technique, computer sets for schools, and what is more important a very expensive equipment for being able to sustain life of children who were born premature. We were gathering signs and asking Ukrainian goverment for this equipment for 4 years!

Wow, what a generous gift. I don't think that would buy a Mayor's seat in a small US city. But.... Wait until the rest of the Russian cities start demanding the same equipment.

[jone]

Hmm, maybe MSNBC?

I have watched both Fox News and MSNBC.  The difference is that both of these outlets have CNN to keep them honest (not to mention BBC, NYTimes, Washington Post, etc.)

[Muzh]

Well, MSNBC are loud and sound hysterical. However, it has been proven over and over again that the most misinformed citizens rely on Fox News. I don't make this up.
 
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/21/fox-news-viewers-less-informed-people-fairleigh-dickinson_n_1106305.html
 
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2011/11/21/fox-news-viewers-uninformed-npr-listeners-not-poll-suggests/
 
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/08/22/dangerously-uninformed-fox-news-fact-free-campa/195533
 
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_11/the_most_misinformed_news_cons033634.php
 
http://www.examiner.com/article/study-finds-fox-news-viewers-more-misinformed-than-non-news-watchers
 
I can find more.

Why do you think Europeans think so bad of us? Guess what they watch to get a glimpse of the US?

[jone]

Wow, what a generous gift. I don't think that would buy a Mayor's seat in a small US city. But.... Wait until the rest of the Russian cities start demanding the same equipment.

The simple truth is that Russia cannot afford to be greedy right now in Crimea.  The honeymoon will go on for a year or two.  Then, we will see how great things are with Russia.  Putin is counting on the fact that his land grab will wash over the cost.  Which, like the Olympics, was over the top.

*******************************************************

In JustMe's lifetime (or that of her son's) there will be the majority of Crimeans wishing that they were part of Ukraine, not of Russia.

[BillyB]

If they want to be independent, why they can't be?

In America, almost half the citizens are disappointed when a president is elected. When Obama was elected, some Republican dominant states were upset and even took legal action in court against some of his policies such as Obamacare. There was some talk of leaving the Union(America).


Can those states be independent and just leave? Every entity will get upset at some point in their lives. They just can't walk away every time they don't like something. Can an Oblast in Russia easily leave? Can a city leave an Oblast? Can you take your land and leave your city? No. You, your city, and your Oblast can do things a little different/independently than the federal government but you can't take the land with you. People in Crimea have the right to move to Russia but they can't take the land with them. Crimea never had the right to join Ukraine decades ago or Russia now, but it was Russia's right to give Crimea to Ukraine as it was their right to sell Alaska to America. Crimea legally belongs to Ukraine and the nation Crimea currently belongs to has the right to dictate where Crimea is to be.


Every country has cultural, ethical, and political differences and if it were so easily to split off from those we disagree with, we'd have much more countries than we have now, especially if we have towns and individuals declaring independence.


Right now Russia reminds me of an upset and rejected guy, who had a relationship with a woman(Ukraine), gets dumped and now wants his gifts back. We'll soon find out if Russia is the type of guy with a "If I can't have you, nobody else will" policy.


So far I'm reading Obama is applying sanctions on a few Russian individuals and threatening more sanctions if Russia continues it's path. I knew Obama was going to be weak in action but I didn't expect him to be this weak. Putin will proceed. History has shown the League of Nations being weak on Hitler. The citizens, who influence the governments of those nations, are partially to blame because like today's people, they don't want to risk war by acting against Hitler's aggression of annexation of surrounding lands. The problem is that the lack of action and talk actually encourages aggression, not stop it, and when war comes, it comes on a much larger scale. As a child, if I knew the ONLY punishment I'd receive from my mother is a verbal scolding if I had my hand in the cookie jar, my hand would be in that cookie jar often because the rewards outweigh the risks.


People like to believe we're more civilized today and using diplomacy is better than saber rattling. How has that worked for us? In the last 100 years we lost more people due to war than any other previous century. We're no more civilized today than we were 10,000 years ago. Some world leaders respond simply better to action than talk. Too bad nobody had the guts to contain Hitler before millions of lives were lost. Would anybody feel sorry for Iran if Israel bombs their nuclear facilities? Not me.

[Muzh]

LMFAO
 
I just read some babushka from Simferopol jsutify the referendum as: Imagine that Some Texan becomes President and forces the whole country to talk Texan.
 
Been done before many times and we are still here as the US of A.
 
Texan? Is that the best of Russian educational system?

[Gator]

Hmm, maybe MSNBC?

I have watched both Fox News and MSNBC.  The difference is that both of these outlets have CNN to keep them honest (not to mention BBC, NYTimes, Washington Post, etc.)

Of those, I prefer BBC. 

CNN "keep them honest" ..........   Yet I watch it more because BBC is not airing when I want news.

Fox does incorporate a token liberal among its talking heads.   

[Gator]

Well, MSNBC are loud and sound hysterical. However, it has been proven over and over again that the most misinformed citizens rely on Fox News. I don't make this up.

I would bet its true, not because Fox News is wrong but because Fox viewers on average are not open-minded and perhaps not as intelligent.  Just my guess based on broadcast content. 

[Muzh]

I would bet its true, not because Fox News is wrong but because Fox viewers on average are not open-minded and perhaps not as intelligent.  Just my guess based on broadcast content.

LMAO
 
Gator, you are wasting your time here. You should be an ambassador to some important country.
 
That was one hell of 180 spin. 

[Gator]

People like to believe we're more civilized today and using diplomacy is better than saber rattling. How has that worked for us? In the last 100 years we lost more people due to war than any other previous century.

Not exactly true.  The vast majority of the combat deaths for  the last 100 years resulted from being drawn into two European conflicts after long period of American neutrality and diplomacy. 

And there was nothing diplomatic about our entrance into Vietnam, which had almost as many combat deaths as World War I.  In fact, if we had been diplomatic we would had complied with the Geneva accords and never joined the localized conflict.


Counting total war deaths (starvation, disease, combat), the civil war alone accounts for over half of all military deaths in American history.  Now factor that our national population in 1861 was just over 10% of today's population.   Bloody times indeed. 

[Gator]

You should be an ambassador to some important country.
 

Yes and no.

While working for the UN in Iran, I got into a serious fight with three Iranians on a ski slope.  The three broke into line, I pushed them, and they jumped me, even trying to gouge out my eyeball.  I withdrew, came up with a plan and returned - kicked the first one in the knee with my ski boot, wrapped the second's ski pole around his neck, and stood eye to eye with the third.  One lucky punch and "down goes Hamid, down goes Hamid."

Soon they  returned in larger number and armed (a German in line told me one had a pipe under his jacket).  My 6'4" Swedish friend skied up and became enraged.  The short, dark-complexion Iranians were stunned, never having seen a man's face turn bright red, and a large man too.  My friend proposed that I fight each one, one at a time.  If not he would join in.  Not wanting to test my luck, I then opened a different tactic.  I started apologizing for my behavior and acted very humble.  We separated and I drove to Teheran to have my red, swollen eye examined.

Not exactly diplomacy.  But I felt I got revenge for Pearl Harbor.   Will Rogers - "Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock."

[Faux Pas]

Well, MSNBC are loud and sound hysterical. However, it has been proven over and over again that the most misinformed citizens rely on Fox News. I don't make this up.
 
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/21/fox-news-viewers-less-informed-people-fairleigh-dickinson_n_1106305.html
 
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2011/11/21/fox-news-viewers-uninformed-npr-listeners-not-poll-suggests/
 
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/08/22/dangerously-uninformed-fox-news-fact-free-campa/195533
 
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_11/the_most_misinformed_news_cons033634.php
 
http://www.examiner.com/article/study-finds-fox-news-viewers-more-misinformed-than-non-news-watchers
 
I can find more.

Why do you think Europeans think so bad of us? Guess what they watch to get a glimpse of the US?

I know you won't admit it because you physically can't. The liberal inside you won't allow it.  Your fingers will refuse to type it and you'd lose your voice if you tried to verbalize it. CNN, MSNBC, CBS, NBC, ABC, Bill Maher and the rest of the liberal left wing blow hards just splinter up  the misinformed left audience whereas Fox has the total audience of the right misinformed. This could also be reflected in total audience of both sides. Your remark and links while likely true, doesn't indicate much when Fox has more audience than the most of the left leaning media combined, ya'know?

You hammer Fox pretty hard and regularly. If you compare the news content of Fox with any other national left leaning media, you'll find it is almost identical. FWIW

[BillyB]

  The vast majority of the combat deaths for  the last 100 years resulted from being drawn into two European conflicts after long period of American neutrality and diplomacy. 

Every country can claim they practice neutrality and diplomacy until war happens. My comments pertaining to war deaths were directed towards the world as a whole, not just in America's history. America did good by sticking it's nose in Europe's business to end the wars there. Maybe we did too good. FDR waited until European nations beat each other up before entering which in turn help put us on top at end of the war. We could have saved more lives by entering the wars earlier but saving lives is rarely the goal of rescuing nations. It's about protecting our interests and that is not necessarily a bad thing. I'm not as upset with Russia and their actions as others are and I hope the Russians won't be upset if America stuck it's nose in Ukraine's business either.

And there was nothing diplomatic about our entrance into Vietnam, which had almost as many combat deaths as World War I.  In fact, if we had been diplomatic we would had complied with the Geneva accords and never joined the localized conflict.

I believe America entered into Vietnam and North Korea to stop the spread of Communism. I will disagree with you there and say diplomacy did happen before the war in Vietnam but USSR didn't listen to the West's reasons on why USSR should stop influencing other governments. USSR was aggressive and did a much better job of influencing nations than the West after WWII. If they weren't stopped, we'd have no friends left. Russia never put their troops against ours and I don't believe they'd do so in Ukraine if that were to happen. The thing I disagreed with in Vietnam is that our politicians didn't allow the military to do it's job and finish the war quick. They purposely dragged it on which was a bad thing.

[Muzh]

I know you won't admit it because you physically can't. The liberal inside you won't allow it.  Your fingers will refuse to type it and you'd lose your voice if you tried to verbalize it. CNN, MSNBC, CBS, NBC, ABC, Bill Maher and the rest of the liberal left wing blow hards just splinter up  the misinformed left audience whereas Fox has the total audience of the right misinformed. This could also be reflected in total audience of both sides. Your remark and links while likely true, doesn't indicate much when Fox has more audience than the most of the left leaning media combined, ya'know?

You hammer Fox pretty hard and regularly. If you compare the news content of Fox with any other national left leaning media, you'll find it is almost identical. FWIW

LMAO
 
FP, you didn't come close.
 
I listen to NPR and watch the news from the Colbert Report and the Daily Show. 

[Faux Pas]

LMAO
 
FP, you didn't come close.
 
I listen to NPR and watch the news from the Colbert Report and the Daily Show. 

LOL..... color me surprised.   Muzh for a single news source, you really couldn't get a more biased report than NPR. I do love you bruddah but, your pointing to Fox as a news sewer when your listening to NPR is quite a bit more than ironic. Colbert and Daily Show equates to nothing more than Pop culture entertainment. Everybody serves somebody I suppose 

Actually, the truth is in the news media from most sources available to Americans. Being able to unmask and discern it is an art not many Americans possess.

[GQBlues]

Prior to the referendum voting, I believe the single greatest thing (threat) Obama could've hurled to Putin was, the US would affirm the annexation of Crimea on the condition Russia will take Canadian Justin Beiber, premium from the US Olympic hockey loss, along with Lindsay Lohan. Hell, give away her lovely aunt Zeituni Onyango too since she loves her welfare checks and social hand-outs. This way it'll be win-win all around.

But I'm still wondering where the heck is our foreign affair expert Mr. Malarkey VP JoeB? Is he still out selling Obamacare like a shoe salesman? Was that really 'more important' than what's going on in the world today?

[GQBlues]

LMAO
 
FP, you didn't come close.
 
I listen to NPR and watch the news from the Colbert Report and the Daily Show. 

NPR?!? LMAO. Unbias?

Nice joke there, Muzh!

[Dewed]

Colbert and Daily Show equates to nothing more than Pop culture entertainment.

Numerous studies indicate that fans of these shows are more informed on world events than regular watchers of more traditional news sources.. Possibly because it is humor injected fact which makes it more palatable.

for example http://thinkprogress.org/default/2007/04/16/11946/daily-show-fox-knowledge/

and in the case of Fox news.. people who got no centralized news source at all were better informed..

http://www.businessinsider.com/study-watching-fox-news-makes-you-less-informed-than-watching-no-news-at-all-2012-5

[Muzh]

NPR?!? LMAO. Unbias?

Nice joke there, Muzh!

So someone finally got it. 

[Dewed]

and thank you all for proving my cleverly veiled point.(wheres the evil genius emote !?)

All "news" is biased to an extent. Some just present a more believable package, but you will never know which is which unless you open your eyes and look around. Oh.. PS   governments lie to their own citizens too, which might be a surprise to some.

[pokerintherear]

It's started......... "Russia will sanction US Senators".... Tricky Dick Durbin (D) from Illinois is at the top of the list.

I don't know weather to laugh or cry.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/17/russia-will-sanction-u-s-officials.html