Protesters in Ukraine remind us of the priceless benefits of being EU members

[Fashionista]

When I got back to Portland, where I had spent my entire adult life I went through some major reverse culture shock, all I saw were pan handlers, all I met were vets struggling with issues and in many cases being forgotten about. I even saw a "not hiring" sign, something I'd never seen before except in history books. IMHO, there are many things the US should consider borrowing from Canadian culture, tolerance of diversity being chief among them... we could use a bit of that here too,  no joke.

To be fair...I am currently visiting the Washington State, staying here for a few months. If things work out, we will eventually relocate. People here are so much more polite than in Montreal, I often feel embarrassed. They go out of their way to help me in every little thing and yet sometimes, to my great surprise, say how Canadians are much friendlier than they are. With what I've encountered so far I don't think it's humanly possible.


Conclusion - the grass is always greener somewhere else.

[Dewed]

I wouldn't know, as I was only in the Toronto - Oshawa Ontario area, People were polite in both places, but I noticed a lot more despair when I returned to my old stomping grounds in Portland.

[Hammer2722]

To be fair...I am currently visiting the Washington State, staying here for a few months. If things work out, we will eventually relocate. People hereare so much more polite than in Montreal, I often feel embarrassed. They go out of their way to help me in every little thing and yet sometimes, to my great surprise, say how Canadians are much friendlier than they are. With what I've encountered so far I don't think it's humanly possible.


Conclusion - the grass is always greener somewhere else.

What part of Washington are you visiting? Maybe I can recommend some good sites to see.

[Fashionista]

What part of Washington are you visiting? Maybe I can recommend some good sites to see.

I can see Moscow from my backyard 

[Hammer2722]

I can see Moscow from my backyard 

That would be one hell of a view! 

[Muzh]

[quoteThe 4 911 hijacked planes were 767s & 757s. All four had known departure points and all were well within our airspace. Each one had an average length of 20' less than 370. All four were *lost* by the worlds most advanced and sophisticated detection system cc3 arrogantly declares we have. So apparently these things can never happen]

that was 13 years ago

one might expect leasons learned and technology advancements have improved the situation somewhat
cc3 has more credential here i think , 

SX

Heh, you might expect that.
 
Here's what we learned.
 
We learned to be scared.
We learned to infinge on our basic rights.
We learned to be paranoid.
We learned that the same idiots are still in charge.
 
Basically, we learned that history tends to repeat itself.

[Fashionista]

That would be one hell of a view! 

it is 

[Hammer2722]

Well done!!! 

[Gator]

Interesting article and possible reason why Putin won't stop with just crimea.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/02/26/why-putin-hates-fracking.html

Informative article.  This is a related article.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/14/europe-shale-ukraine-idUSL6N0MB1WI20140314

Ukraine has Europe's third largest shale gas reserves.  Much of this is located in east Ukraine, in the Donetsk and Kharkiv oblasts, directly in the path of the next Russian incursion into Ukraine if Putin wants to repeat Crimea. 

Both Obama and Putin dislike fracking.   So maybe this is one reason why Obama has not taken a harsh stance towards Putin?   Nope, just odd bedfellows (I hope).

[GQBlues]

Likely the reason why the EU shunned its own qualification policy and signed Ukraine into union and not a moment too soon. Have gas will travel. Although with a lot of American retirees starting to retire in Ukraine, I don't know why they were slow to realize  potential huge amounts of gasses can now be found in Ukraine.

The poor Turks...they should just give up NATO membership for being treated like an unwanted bastard *European* child all these years and just align itself with Russia.

 

This way at least, Russia can have total control of the Black Sea if it hasn't yet already.

[BillyB]

To be fair...I am currently visiting the Washington State, staying here for a few months. If things work out, we will eventually relocate. People here are so much more polite than in Montreal, I often feel embarrassed. They go out of their way to help me in every little thing and yet sometimes, to my great surprise, say how Canadians are much friendlier than they are. With what I've encountered so far I don't think it's humanly possible.

People in the Pacific Northwest are polite compared to other places. Some New Yorkers have told me this and they'll never go back to NY. Like New Yorkers, I've heard French Canadians can be rude too. I think if you went into Vancouver B.C, right above Washington State, you'll find they are more polite than the Canadians in Montreal.

Both Obama and Putin dislike fracking.

Putin may dislike fracking but he loves to strengthen Russia more.

[GQBlues]

They have found MAS flight-- and it did not take to long after they got a sophisticated country doing the looking!!

DAY 3: How is the sophisticated country searching for this sophisticated missing plane doing so far?

[SANDRO43]

The poor Turks...they should just give up NATO membership for being treated like an unwanted bastard *European* child all these years

Negotiations were progressing at a slow pace but progressing nevertheless, until the Turks voted Erdogan into power and he steered his country towards a more Islamic constitution, contrary to its laical and army-controlled past since the 1920s, Kemal Ataturk's times.

and just align itself with Russia.This way at least, Russia can have total control of the Black Sea if it hasn't yet already.

Quite unlikely IMHO: for centuries the Turks have regarded Russia/USSR with deep suspicion and some fear of the latter's expansionist policies southwards, that's why they joined NATO and will most likely remain in it . 

[Gator]

Quite unlikely IMHO: for centuries the Turks have regarded Russia/USSR with deep suspicion and some fear of the latter's expansionist policies southwards, that's why they joined NATO and will most likely remain in it .

Correct, e. g. the Crimean War.  When the Russian Bear conquered the Cossacks and Tartars in Ukraine, it eliminated a buffer between the Ottomans and Russians.   The British Lion came to the rescue of the Ottomans and helped keep Russia at bay for another 20 years.

[GQBlues]

Negotiations were progressing at a slow pace but progressing nevertheless, until the Turks voted Erdogan into power and he steered his country towards a more Islamic constitution, contrary to its laical and army-controlled past since the 1920s, Kemal Ataturk's times....

I certainly can understand the point there Sandro. Although not quite sure if the Turks simply decided to sway against membership thinking that a dehydrated three-legged camel buried 12 feet deep in the dunes moves faster than the Union's EU's policy makers.

While I'm not fully verse exactly what Turkey was failing to meet prior to the election of Erdogan to gain their membership (economics/ political stability? better than Ukraine. Religion (?) perhaps), all things considered, they can't possibly in a more dire situation than what and where Ukraine is today.

...Quite unlikely IMHO: for centuries the Turks have regarded Russia/USSR with deep suspicion and some fear of the latter's expansionist policies southwards, that's why they joined NATO and will most likely remain in it ....

I sort of knew this (Ottoman era) which is why I followed the message with a tongue-in-cheek emoticon. It'll almost be like asking Armenians to ally with the Turks.

As for deep suspicion, heh...do what Obama/Hillary did. Present Russia with a colorful 'reset' plastic button. Oh wait....that didn't quite work either.

[SANDRO43]

While I'm not fully verseD IN exactly what Turkey was failing to meet prior to the election of Erdogan to gain their membership (economics/ political stability? ... Religion (?)

Many issues like democratic viability, business transparency, corruption, etc. etc.

Religion was also a very present although little openly mentioned issue, the only Moslem country possibly joining an otherwise Christian community of states . They MAY have also resented someone proposing (at a UE conference in Lisbon, IIRC) that the intended UE constitution should include a paragraph saying it was based on Christian principles . 

[JayH]

The West’s obligation to Ukraine

By Madeleine Albright and Jim O’Brien, Saturday, March 22, 11:11 AM
Madeleine Albright was secretary of state from 1997 to 2001. Jim O’Brien was presidential envoy for the Balkans in the Clinton administration. She is chairman and he is vice chairman of the Albright Stonebridge Group.

When President Obama and European allies meet next week, they can begin forming a meaningful response to Vladi­mir Putin’s adventurism. This new strategy should note that Putin’s view of the world is rooted in dangerous fictions.

Churchill said Russia was a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma. Under Putin, Russia’s rhetoric can be described as a fantasy inside a delusion wrapped in a tissue of lies. He may believe that Ukrainians are fascists intending to attack Russians, but it is not true. Ukraine’s interim government is widely representative, and no outside observer has found evidence of a campaign of violence against Russians.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/what-next-for-ukraine/2014/03/21/dab50db8-b131-11e3-a49e-76adc9210f19_story.html?hpid=z2

[BillyB]

[size=12pt
(CNN) - Based on intelligence, Obama administration officials are very concerned the Russians are not being truthful when they say their forces near Ukraine's eastern and southern borders are merely there for training exercises, sources tell CNN.

It's good Obama is using intelligence sources instead of relying on his own brain during the events that led to the fall of Crimea. Now that we know Russian troop movements doesn't translate to training exercises, what is Obama going to do about it to discourage Russia from entering Ukraine? Sanction 7 more people?

[JayH]

 It is time we stopped praising Ukraine for ‘exercising restraint’?
March 26, 2014, 6:02 p.m. | Ukraine — by Yuriy Onyshkiv
James Sherr

Since Russian troops invaded and took over Crimea, Ukraine’s authorities have seemed largely helpless. The criticism is not easing since many expect that Russia may invade the mainland, citing Russian troops near Ukraine's northeastern borders and Russian President Vladimir Putin's claim that southeastern Ukraine is a traditionally Russian land.



http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/james-sherr-it-is-time-we-stopped-praising-ukraine-for-exercising-restraint-340991.html

[BC]

My goodness... again a bunch of 'cut n paste' blowhards... without the slightest hint of original thought.

Can't someone just paste the entire contents of Encyclopedia Britannica and declare a win?

[Anotherkiwi]

 
Agreed - despite some ridiculous comments posted, it's the best summary I've read.

[BC]

Jay,

I think what the mod is trying to point out is that everyone here is intelligent enough to use google...

What's more important is digesting the information available and expressing here how WE feel about the situation at hand instead of being force fed one 'source' or another..

My thoughts, Crimea will end up in a semi limbo status for a long while.  If the situation improves over the next year or two for the common folk living there and RU can bear the cost then Putin wins.  At the same time how much will it cost the west to keep UA on it's feet?  Me thinks much, much more.. sanctions be damned.

[Daveman]

The article remains and in proper form for the forum.  Those interested may click on the link to continue reading. 

[ML]

[quote author=Fashionista link=topic=17005.msg362107#msg362107 date=1395408846  To be fair...I am currently visiting the Washington State, staying here for a few months. If things work out, we will eventually relocate. People are so much more polite than in Montreal, I often feel embarrassed.
[/quote]

Ah, that explains it.
You are merely experiencing the French idea of polite.

[JayH]

Quoting--

Why Russian and Ukrainians do not understand each other

"Recently read a good text journalist who spent two weeks on the Independence of the members of the right sector. It was interesting to read, but all the time I have a thought glozhit, very strange: if I was in Russia. I thought I slept with this idea, and in the morning realized, in principle, taken from such a monstrous misunderstanding between Ukrainians and Russian on all the latest developments, the Maidan, the revolution and the occupation of the Crimea"

http://uagolos.com/pochemu-russkye-y-ukrayncy-ne-ponymajut-druh-druha/