Trip Report, St. Petersburg

[al-c]

Here I am, on the other side of the world, for the third time.

You may have noticed that I have not posted here for a while, mainly because I have been so busy these past two weeks preparing for my trip and squaring my job away so it will run without me for two weeks, that I have hardly found time to breathe, let alone go on the internet.

But I made it.

Olga met me in the airport as we arranged, and our two days together so far have been wonderful.  She has shown herself to be caring and attentive, those very characteristics all of the RW marriage sites tell you all their ladies have, but I have found to be lacking in so many RW.  We shall see how this situation develops over the next 10 days, but so far it has confirmed my belief from the internet that I have found a real keeper.

Yesterday we visited the Hermitage, and today, May Day, we will be going to a birthday party for two of Olga's friends.

Olga and I are off to breakfast now, so I will write more, probably tomorrow.

[Noyrt]

Thanks for taking the time to post,, you have at least one reader..  :-)

Qurious what agency you used, I have had 3 trips abroad also and similar problems as you mentioned..

Still may return this summer again.. ?  Send photos also if you can..

Curious, did you travel to meet only her.. 
Thats been my stratagy but always has failed..

Enjoy your time..  Noyrt..

[al-c]

Yes, I did travel only for Olga.  It is a hazardous strategy since your entire trip is a bust if you fail to connect with the one woman you came to see, your entire trip is a bust.  But for me, it is the only strategy that my conscience can live with since meeting 2 or 3 or 4 women feels fundamentally wrong to me.

I met Olga on Elena's Models, a site which a man either loves or hates if you believe what you read here.

[groovlstk]

Al, if you plan on coming to Moscow, let me know as I'll be here until May 7.

I'm glad to hear your trip is a success so far, I'm having the trip of a lifetime so far...

[catzenmouse]

al-c,

 Glad to hear things are working out well so far. Good luck with the rest of your trip. I'll be looking forward to hearing more of your trip report when you have time.

Ken

[viking]

Al

I wish you the best. I know your heart is there for her and I hope you come home a happy man.

Let us know how things come along.

Greg

[al-c]

Olga is at work right now, and it is the first time we have been apart since I got here.

Will I come home a happy man?  Well, let's just say that I wish I knew this culture better, that I wish I knew Olga better, and that I wish I just knew where to find the damn buttons to make everything work the way it is supposed to.  The buttons are there for me to push; I just need to find them, and the process of looking can be so frustrating.

Olga can be demanding at times, even for the simplest things.  I suppose she is accustomed to having to demand things to get them.  My assurance that all she needs to do is ask and she shall receive has not sunk in yet, despite the fact that every time she asked she did receive.

If anybody has advice on what to do and where to go from here, I would be happy to receive it since my actions and decisions over the next seven days may very well chart the course for the rest of my life.

I will not go to Moscow this time since I flew in through Helsinki and am going home the same way.

Now for the no-brainer quiz:  Who can pick out the Arab from this group of Russians?

[Sohkay]

Al,

I have a question for you. Are you considering proposing marriage to a woman you have been with for less than two weeks? Or even if you were with her for the full two weeks? I'm not talking about email or phone time, but time spent face to face.

One other question. If Olga's demanding behavior were mulitplied by a factor of ten, or even a hundred, would this be a tolerable situation for you? The behavior could be ten or a hundred times more present after you are married.

Now, you asked for advice, and here is my two cents. Take...your...time. Plan, in your mind, to return to visit her again before making a lifetime decision. Take the pressure off of you and her and just be together, and enjoy the romantic phase of your relationship.

I wish you the very best. Enjoy your trip!

[Shadow]

Olga is at work right now, and it is the first time we have been apart since I got here.

Will I come home a happy man? Well, let's just say that I wish I knew this culture better, that I wish I knew Olga better, and that I wish I just knew where to find the damn buttons to make everything work the way it is supposed to. The buttons are there for me to push; I just need to find them, and the process of looking can be so frustrating.

Olga can be demanding at times, even for the simplest things. I suppose she is accustomed to having to demand things to get them. My assurance that all she needs to do is ask and she shall receive has not sunk in yet, despite the fact that every time she asked she did receive.

If anybody has advice on what to do and where to go from here, I would be happy to receive it since my actions and decisions over the next seven days may very well chart the course for the rest of my life.

Al, like Sokhay I advise not to take any decisions over the the next couple of days.
Do not suppose anything about cultural differences. See how she reacts if she does not receive.
Understand that you are on a holiday high, and your feelings may cloud your judgement.
If you do not feel that she is liking you fully, her ideas and yours might be different.

[Turboguy]

Personally I would take her being demanding as a red flag.  They are not all demanding.  They are direct.   Most are not demanding. 

With my former fiancee I saw no red flags at all on the first trip and on the second they were flying like crazy.  I ignored them and paid the price.

You have some time yet.  Just keep in mind, if you are not sure, you can always make a second trip before you decide.  Sometimes it is easier to jump into things than it is to jump out of them.   Good luck. 

[catzenmouse]

Al,

 Shadow and Sohkay are bang on with the advice. Don't make any decisions now. Watch how she treats others and you and just enjoy the moment. Save the soul searching for after you get back and have some time to absorb all that is happening now.

 As for who is the Arab, simple, it's the blond lady sitting next to that dark swarthy guy with the beard! 

Ken

[al-c]

Thank you all for the advice.  You are all right; I just had to hear it from some place besides my own brain to validate it.

The only problem with the next trip is that I am a blue collar worker and get a whopping 2 weeks of vacation a year, so my next trip will not happen until 2007.  It is a huge limiting factor in this whole process and exaclty the one that caused me to jump in head first with Arina two years ago, only to find that the light at the end of the tunnel was the headlamp of an oncoming train.

Nothing she was demanding about was unreasonable and things I would have gladly given to her if she just asked or even without asking, such as to pay for the groceries for the food she cooked for us.  She needs to let me do the right thing on my own first, and then ask politely, because she will always get the right thing done that way.  I think I can teach her.  I am not above criticism and welcome it when my conduct needs to be improved.  I have told her that in the past.

There is a bit of a language barrier here.  Her English is pretty good but not great, such that when I speak my words slowly, one at a time, she understands, but often I cannot use the precise words I want to use to express my thoughts because of her limited English vocabulary.

My biggest concern is not the demanding, which I think I can teach her to control.  My biggest concern is that she has led an isolated live, living in St. Pete and going as far at the Black Sea for vacation, but nothing further.  She has never been on an airplane, has never been outside of Russia, and was never even in Moscow!  I can offer her my life in New York, but I cannot offer her the life she knows here.  She needs to understand that her world will change drastically in New York and that she cannot have a mindset that something is wrong because it is not done like it is done in St  Petersburg.

She is on her way to my hotel right now, so I need to close this post and go.

Thank you all again.  I appreciate your advice and the reality check it brings me.  Please keep it coming because I will be here for seven more days.

[catzenmouse]

Al,

 My thoughts are mixed in with your text.

Thank you all for the advice.  You are all right; I just had to hear it from some place besides my own brain to validate it.

The only problem with the next trip is that I am a blue collar worker and get a whopping 2 weeks of vacation a year, so my next trip will not happen until 2007.  It is a huge limiting factor in this whole process and exaclty the one that caused me to jump in head first with Arina two years ago, only to find that the light at the end of the tunnel was the headlamp of an oncoming train.
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Would there be a possibility of working some extra hours and making a trip in the fall?
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Nothing she was demanding about was unreasonable and things I would have gladly given to her if she just asked or even without asking, such as to pay for the groceries for the food she cooked for us.  She needs to let me do the right thing on my own first, and then ask politely, because she will always get the right thing done that way.  I think I can teach her.  I am not above criticism and welcome it when my conduct needs to be improved.  I have told her that in the past.
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I think that "teach" is not the correct terminology for this. Perhaps it is more of a getting her to understand a different way of doing things so that she would be more comfortable with your interactions and with those of people she will come in contact with here.
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There is a bit of a language barrier here.  Her English is pretty good but not great, such that when I speak my words slowly, one at a time, she understands, but often I cannot use the precise words I want to use to express my thoughts because of her limited English vocabulary.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Elena was like this at first. She took lessons after we met to refresh her abilities from school and we talked a lot on the phone which gave her more practice and took ESL classes and lessons on the computer after she got here. Now she's taking an Advanced ESL class and is bringing in 95 - 100% on everything. If Olga is truly wanting this to work I think she will do what it takes to get her language skills up.
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My biggest concern is not the demanding, which I think I can teach her to control.  My biggest concern is that she has led an isolated live, living in St. Pete and going as far at the Black Sea for vacation, but nothing further.  She has never been on an airplane, has never been outside of Russia, and was never even in Moscow!  I can offer her my life in New York, but I cannot offer her the life she knows here.  She needs to understand that her world will change drastically in New York and that she cannot have a mindset that something is wrong because it is not done like it is done in St  Petersburg.
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St. Petersburg is not exactly what I would call isolated. It is much closer to how her life would be in NYC than if she was from one of the many little cities around the country. But, I will tell you that no matter what it is or how good it is there will be a good amount of "it is better in Russia" so just expect it and don't let it worry you.
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She is on her way to my hotel right now, so I need to close this post and go.

Thank you all again.  I appreciate your advice and the reality check it brings me.  Please keep it coming because I will be here for seven more days.

 Ken

[Turboguy]

I know of one person who has a problem with time off and makes a few short trips.  Something like taking a Friday off on a 3 day weekend, flying out Thursday night and flying back on Monday night and at least he has three days there.   If you want to see her bad enought it is an option.

[viking]

TG

Ain't it the truth!!

It's a long ride for only 3 days, but if want to be with someone, more so if she wants to be with you, then you just do what ya gotta do. But it does make the next few months go easier.

Al, the 4th of July is a Tuesday. Leave Fri night (no time off just leave work early to catch the 6PM flight on Finnair to Helsinki) arrive Sat, and then leave on Tuesday AM, go to work on Wed. Only one day off, Monday. Yeah you will be tired, but you techie guys can always find a 'problem' off site.

Greg

[groovlstk]

I know of one person who has a problem with time off and makes a few short trips.  Something like taking a Friday off on a 3 day weekend, flying out Thursday night and flying back on Monday night and at least he has three days there.   If you want to see her bad enought it is an option.

Turbo's right, don't think that a long weekend together is "too short." I spent 3 days in Warsaw last Spring with a Ukrainian girl, I tacked on 1 vacation day to Memorial Day weekend and I had no regrets. I thought the time would pass so rapidly that it wouldn't be worth the $$ investment, but I was happy to find out I was wrong.

[al-c]

A short trip would be a possibility and something I need to think about.  Perhaps Labor Day weekend.  I still have 2 vacation days left and can also develop a case of work-itis and take some of my sick days.  It all depends on how things are going here.

Olga frequently speaks of her expectations of how a husband and wife interact.  I take that as a good indication of where her mind is.

McDonald's anybody?

[Freebird]

Al -

The brief experience I had in Kiev is similar to yours.  The girl I was seeing often explored my thoughts and feelings about how marriage partners should interact and what I perceived our individual responsibilities would be if a long term relationship developed.  So, I suspect that your potential partner is doing the same thing that you are doing: getting to know you as well as possible in a short period of time, so that she can make an informed decision about the future.  Seems like the logical thing to do.  FWIW.

Jim

[al-c]

Day 7 has begun, and so far things are going pretty well.  The demanding behavior has all but disappeared, so it seems she has learned that I can be depended on to do the right thing without being told to do so, and if I miss one right thing or two, asking me gets the result she is looking for.

There has not been much tourism since Olga is working again today, but we had a very good night last night.  We got along super well, better than we ever have.

I spent yesterday working, creating a web site I needed to make but could never get to in New York because of too many people bugging me.  Here I can sit all day long at the computer and work, kind of like a writer going off to a cabin in the woods to write his book.  Today I will finish my site and then go out on the town and explore.

Tomorrow I will spend the day with Olga and her son.  I promised to take him clothes shopping for clothes he wants but Olga cannot possibly afford.  Olga never asked for it; I just offered since he really needs the clothes.  I figure it might cost me $150.00 or so, but that is no big deal.  Later on, Olga and Alex and I will go see the water circus, and then off to dinner at McDonalds.

St. Petersburg is an eclectic mix of the old and the new.  Some of the old has been immaculately maintained, while other old places are crumbling and in disrepair.  Alongside the old is the new, some gleaming towers with rental or sale billboards on the sites, apparently for the well monied among the people here.

I was surprised to find an almost complete void of English, with the hotel clerks (and not even all of them) being the sole sources of fluent English.  I was expecting a Moscow level of English proficiency but instead am seeing a Novosibirsk type of English level.  Most restaurants have Russian menus., and most servers speak no English, which makes even getting a bite to eat an adventure here.  But I suppose one needs to take the bad along with the good.

[Vaughn]

 Nice report so far, al-c. I've been waiting for your comments about
the ballet that was discussed months back. My wife, who thinks you're
dapper and handsome, laughed at the unlikelihood of your "slipping into"
the theatre unnoticed (like a local), even in New York's finest menswear.

Will check this thread tomorrow, good luck!

Vaughn

[al-c]

The ballet at the Marinsky Theater, is tomorrow, and yes I have a foreigner ticket, and yes I am planning to wear a nice suit and tie.  The picture I posted earlier in this thread showing how I stick out like a sore thumb among a group of Russians makes it fairly obvious that I could never pretend to be one.

But that was not what I came here to post about.  I have a problem, that Olga and I had a big fight last night.

Olga wanted to visit her sports club instead of coming right here to my hotel after work.  Even though I felt that she was wrong and that her sports club could easily wait until after I returned to New York, I shut my mouth and decided to put up with it, specifically because she promised to come here as soon as the sports club ended at 9:00.

10:00 came and went, and no Olga.  I called her, and much to my astonishment, she was at home doing laundry.  I asked her when she was planning to come to the hotel, and she said "tomorrow".  I asked her what was wrong with coming this evening, and she said she was too tired.  I said she could sleep undisturbed and that I would be as quiet as a mouse and would not disturb her, but that it would still be nice for her to come here.  By then, my blood was starting to boil, but I held it in, hoping to get the result I was seeking with kindness.

After asking her a few more times when she was coming to the hotel room and getting the same answer, I finally snapped and said "Fine.  Do what you want!" and hung up on her.  After that moment of intolerance, I came to my senses and called her repeatedly, only to find that she refused to answer the phone.

This morning, she said that she lost all respect for me as a result of that incident. I told her I was sorrry for getting angry but I was not sorry for wanting her to come to the hotel and that I expected her to want to come without being asked to do so.  She replied that she wanted to be alone, but after somne prodding, I finally got her to agree to meet with me today at 3:00, although she now tells me that after I return to New York, it is over between us.

Is it normal for a Riussain woman to treat a man who flew 10 hours to see her like a piece of dirt?  Is there something here I am not understanding?  Which one of us is being unreasonable?  Why can't she devote these 11 days to me when I am prepared to devote my entire life to her?  Please help me out here.

[Shadow]

Al-c read my first reply, I regret to say I saw this coming.
Your feelings towards had already devloped before meeting her, where she regards all of this as a first date. Now it is time to become a man. Make sure to have a kitchen table talk with her, I mean the kind where you talk straight. Ask her to be very open about her feelings and thoughts, and be the same. If it turns out that you will not be together in the future don't get mad at her, but offer to stay friends.
Don't drop the theater, it is going to be a nice experience anyhow and if you can get the bad stuff out of the way before I am sure you will have a great evening regardless.

[jb]

Al,

Actually you are lucky to have this happen now rather than later, from your 1st post you already knew she has a demanding, One-Way sort of personality.  She isn't into you, she's into herself.  Her deciding to go to the gym for a workout, leaving someone who had gone to great expense and trouble, traveled a great many miles to see her, was an act of total selfishness.  Your feelings for her may make you decide to suck it up and try again, and that might work for a time, right up to that point she needs to clean her shoes on the doormat named Al again. 

There are lots of women in the FSU who would delighted with a man who flew 10,000 miles to see them, and would treat him more appropriately.  I'd say it's time to move on to another woman who makes you happy all the time, not just part of the time.

Edit: Shadow says; "Make sure to have a kitchen table talk with her, I mean the kind where you talk straight."   I would have thought a man would have cleared the air on those topics long before he bought a plane ticket.  Most men are in this to find a wife, a man should always remember, a marriage is nothing more than an alliance between two people, unless a man is willing to play second or third fiddle forever, an alliance with a woman who shows such disrespect will seldom last. Been there, done that, have the tee-shirt and the belt buckle. 

Other may disagree, but that's the way I read the handwriting on the wall.

[BC]

Al,

Look at the bright side, I really wouldn't mind spending a couple days sightseeing in St.Pete even if I was alone..  Hell there are millions of folks that would be happy to trade places with you right now.

You got two tickets to the ballet so I'm sure you can find good company to have a 'lil fun.

Just get out and enjoy yourself!

[Sohkay]

Al, like I stated in my earlier post, multiply her behavior by a factor of 10 or 20 to see what she might be like as a wife. Her behavior is extremely inconsiderate and rude and very unloving. I shudder, because this reminds me of how I stupidly continued to court a woman like this, and then even more stupidly married her! Arghhhhhh!

And listen to yourself, saying that you are prepared to spend the rest of your life with her after 7, make that 6 days with her. And apologizing for your behavior, yet she offers no apology for her behavior. I also see a woman who is attempting to lead you around by your nose with her rude behavior. And it's working! She's got you apologizing for her stupid and bitchy behavior.

If it were me, I would dump her unsmiling self so fast, and run, not walk to my plan B, which would probably be an agency or two.

You need to seriously think about a plan B, Al.

And quickly.

Quickly.