Trip Report, St. Petersburg

[BC]

Sohkay,

Quite honestly rushing to the next agency to spend time in back rooms and cafe's for the rest of his trip in desparation trying to stubling across the woman for life is not what I would consider an enjoyable experience.  An agency would eat him alive.  He should enjoy a little of his hard earned vacation and do a good bit of reflection before jumping back in again..   

It's a nice sunny warm spring day in St. Pete, a most beautiful city where being alone truly is elective and beautiful companionship in plenty and affordable.

Believe me.. doing this will put things quickly back into perspective.

[Sohkay]

And therein lies a difference between you and me, BC. I'm suggesting he continue on his quest, his "college of knowledge" curriculum, maybe hire a translator/guide to take him around, and maybe introduce him to a couple of women.

And you suggest sightseeing and a prostitute.

Whattya' think Al? Continuing on your quest/education, or going sightseeing and enlisting the services of a prostitute?

[Admin]

And therein lies a difference between you and me, BC. I'm suggesting he continue on his quest, his "college of knowledge" curriculum, maybe hire a translator/guide to take him around, and maybe introduce him to a couple of women.

And you suggest sightseeing and a prostitute.

Whattya' think Al? Continuing on your quest/education, or going sightseeing and enlisting the services of a prostitute?

Whoa! Maybe I am naive, but I didn't read anything BC said as suggesting PAID companionship. I see how some might interpret it that way, but you have to read pretty deep between the lines to get there (IMO).

- Dan

[Sohkay]

BC wrote, "It's a nice sunny warm spring day in St. Pete, a most beautiful city where being alone truly is elective and beautiful companionship in plenty and affordable."

It seems pretty clear to me.

Let's keep this thread focused on Al and his situation.

[viking]

Al,

Who is in control here?

Remember, her parents and friends are giving her advice just like the folks here. You are being evaluated as well. How you react now is giving her thoughts about later on as well.

I have been through something like this. Try to be a bit more assertive and see what happens before making any rash decisions.

Example: Don't say when will you be at my hotel? Say I am sending a car to pick you up at 7PM, take you here and we will go the show at 8. Period. No cave man type dragging her into the bedroom. You are polite and courteous, but this is the schedule.

It's like the sales person setting up a call with a client. Would you like Tuesday at 10AM or would Wednesday be better? She may have a choice, but the guidelines are yours.

Set the parameters. You are going sight seeing until 5 PM. (she can do what she wants as well) BUT, I will be at your home to take you to dinner at 8. Chinese or Japanese? Either answer is a commitment to dinner. If she says 9 instead or French instead, you are still going to dinner.

Give this a shot. She may be more nervous than you think. And is overreacting. Not sure but, run don't walk away at this point would not be on my radar.

[BC]

Sohkay,

I figured the wording I used might provoke some thought.

Quite honestly I think Al should really take a step back and reconsider the practical feasibility of persuing a RW in FSU.  His mention of very limited time per year and possibly a squeezed budget for visits would be kind of backbreaker and eventual neckbreaker esp. trying to rush things along at the last moment.

At this point he is probably trying to come to grips emotionally with his most recent experiences.. not a good time and terms to persue further down a dark path hoping for 777 to show up in those little windows.

All I am saying is that he should enjoy himself as much as possible.. he is on what many would consider to be a once in a liftime trip to a fabulous piece of this planet on a most beautiful day at that.

Regarding my statement you quoted all I will say is you can interpret as you wish.  I do know from experience though that emotional hangovers can be effectively cured in a similar manner as with drink hangovers..  a 'shot' the 'morning after' often is a wonderful cure.

Maybe he would be better off paying an Agency for a few dinners with nice looking girls?.. short shopping sprees afterwards as a 'tip' in hopes of a 'bit more' in the eve?

[BillyB]

Al-c,

People put their best foot forward when they meet. I can tell you there is a lot better prospects out their who'd be a great hostesses during a man's visit.

Don't make excuses for her behavior. Some men would think it's a cultural thing or she's a woman and it's normal for her to test a man. It's not a cultural thing for her to show bad behavior with a bad attitude. And if she's testing you, then the tests will never end. Don't force a relationship here.

[catzenmouse]

Al,

 If she is telling you that she will be done with you when you go back then perhaps it is time to be done with her now. I'm sure you had great expectations going into this and were hoping for a great outcome but you cannot force this issue or this relationship. You've still got some time in St. Petersburg and it is a very beautiful city so why not take advantage of your time there and meet a few other ladies. There are plenty of agencies there who will set up a date or two and if nothing else you will have met a few more beautiful women and had some very nice company for dinner.

 If you have the "talk" with her and things get worked out (in my opinion only) you will leave wondering if they really are worked out or if she will exhibit more outlandish behavior in the future. This is not a hurry up and get married situation nor is it something that you should go into with questions unanswered in your mind.

 Don't let your hopes cloud your judgement. I sincerely wish you a good outcome no matter what happens.

Ken

[Bruce]

View this trip as a lesson and enjoy what you can.

1.  See Ballet by yourself or if you are lucky with an agency girl (visit the local agencies and you may at least get a quick date) and drop this girl who is just using you like a hot rock.  There is no advantage in letting this girl step in wet dog poop with both shoes and whipe them all over your best suits. 
2.  Perhaps you know this, but the majority of NW Russians I have met look at you as the average white man in 1920 views blacks in the south, and that may be an understatement.  Most girls are looking at Arabs as a ticket out at best, nothing against you personally.  So, enjoy St. Petersburg - tell an agency you are looking for girls honestly into your background / truly great hearts looking to accept a man on his merits.
3.  Never do a WOVO again,
4.  If you really want a FSU girl go to one of the "Stans" (Dagestan, Turkmenistan, Azerberjan, Kazakstan etc.) and WMVM or NVMW.  There are truly beautiful girls there who most importantly will probably accept you for you.
5.  If you can not find girls who want to meet you on short notice enjoy St. Petersburg ie. see the churches, see the museums.  If you want excellent female entertainment go to one of the happening clubs.  Hollywood Nights is right on Nevsky Prospekt, though I have no idea if it is happening right now.  If watching / trying to deal with gyrating adolescence is not enough for you, go to Golden Gals, right down the street.  You'll have first rate entertainment for a price and though I do not advocate it, you could get anything more you like for more of a price....................

[PeeWee]

Yes, I did travel only for Olga.  It is a hazardous strategy since your entire trip is a bust if you fail to connect with the one woman you came to see, your entire trip is a bust.  But for me, it is the only strategy that my conscience can live with since meeting 2 or 3 or 4 women feels fundamentally wrong to me.

I met Olga on Elena's Models, a site which a man either loves or hates if you believe what you read here.

You are my hero for today, Al-c. I do as you do for the same reasons. I had a talk with Lena, whom I met via Elena as well. She is very concerned that I will travel to meet with more than one woman. I told her that it would be just her this time. To assure her I told her that I would arrive on the same day as she would, we are going to either Hong Kong, Moscow, or Bangkok, and I would leave on the same day. She would see me everyday, if she could stand it, so I don't know why she is being so insecure about it.

Thanks for sharing and the best of luck to you.

Peewee
 

[Shadow]

Sokhay and others who advocate Al-c to run to the nearest agency.

This is the last thing he needs to do right now. If he is a man who is not prepared to meet more than one woman on his trip, his mindset will be not at all ready to meet anyone new. Even if a woman fom an agency might be interested in a man for one day, he would not be able to give her a fair chance, and his return time of one year would only cause trouble.

The advise to just cruise St Pete is better, and let him decide who he wants to take to the ballet.

[andrewfi]

Bruce ~ I know that your last vist was a while back. Things change. Hollywood closed a few years ago. One would be searching for 'Golden Gals' for a long time, and in vain. You are probably referring to "Golden Dolls' which used to be a fun place with reasonable prices. Neither of these aspects of the establishment remain today.

But for sure, one can have a good time in SPb on one's own. It is probably true though that for a guy in town for just a few days, with no language skills and time on his hands, no contacts, no matter what he might think to the contrary, almost any interaction with a woman he meets 'socially' is likely to be, on one level or another, commercially motivated.

The skill of the traveller then becomes to minimise his outlay whilst maximising his return.

[Bruce]

Andrew, thanks for the correction.  Thats what I get for not going to St. Petersburg in three years.
In any event, I hope Al learns from this experience and has a good time during the rest of his vacation in St. Petersburg. 

[Killer-B]

People put their best foot forward when they meet.

Don't make excuses for her behavior.

Don't force a relationship here.

I think those 3 things from BillyB, sum it up best Al - Just make the best of your remaining time - and soak in the "experience"... Always next time!!

Killer ...

PS: Also agree with Bruce that you might wanna check out the "-stans" too....

PSS: I used this agency about 2 years ago with good results, and the manager/owner is very helpful and nice  - Might wanna contact her and just "stop by" and see the office and her girls?... http://www.allsinglerussiangirls.com/ (used to be www.lovemage.ru) but that's now the Russian site entrance...

[al-c]

I'm back in New York now and ultra exhausted, so I promise a better post with details, pictures, and my impression of some things once my brain becomes fully operational.

I am sorry for not having posted here in so long, but to make a long story short, Olga came back to me, and we spent the rest of our time together.

During our last night together, she was crying but trying to hold it back, so there is at least some emotional connection there.

I told her that it would be a year before I could return.  Actually I could push myself very hard and do a short trip in September for 4 or 5 days or so, but right now I am not inclined to push quite that hard, so I did not even mention it to her.

I did, however, tell her that there is another option, the one we both know about, but that I felt that neither of us were ready for that option.  She looked puzzled, and then I hinted that I meant a one way trip to New York for her, and that she knows that there is only one way such a trip would ever happen.  I told her I felt that we did not know enough about each other yet to do such a thing, so why don't we just write and call for a while and see what happens.  I added that we need to be guided by rational thought and not by emotion, because although love is the greatest emotion of all, there is more at stake here than love, and the lives of three people (she has a son) need rational thought to be properly served.

It is 4:15 in the morning here in New York, although for some strange reason my body is telling me that it is 12:15 P.M. already (jet lag anyone?).  So I will say good night for now, with a promise of the rest of my trip report coming later.

Thank you all for your concern and support.

[catzenmouse]

Al,

 Welcome back! I'll be looking forward to more of your trip report.

 Give it a few days and let things settle. It worries me a bit that you're thinking K1 already. I know that it has been done and has worked out quite well but there are enough horror stories that this is probably the last thing you want to think about right now. In the bit you have shared with us it was not a smooth ride by any means and even though things ended up working out well in the end it is not a step to be taken lightly.

Ken

[jb]

I did, however, tell her that there is another option, the one we both know about, but that I felt that neither of us were ready for that option.  She looked puzzled, and then I hinted that I meant a one way trip to New York for her, and that she knows that there is only one way such a trip would ever happen.

This is "Little Head Thinking", you are not at this point, in love, you are in the early stages of lust.  Don't misunderstand, lust is a very powerful emotion and is often confused with love, but it takes a very long time to truly grow to love someone.  Give yourself some time before making the ultimate commitment.  During that time get to know the woman a whole lot better, who knows, there may even be some things about her that you will grow to love.

[Jet]

I told her I felt that we did not know enough about each other yet to do such a thing, so why don't we just write and call for a while and see what happens.  I added that we need to be guided by rational thought and not by emotion, because although love is the greatest emotion of all, there is more at stake here than love, and the lives of three people (she has a son) need rational thought to be properly served.

JB and Catz,
I think he's fine for the moment. The above quote didn't look like the follow-up to a serious invitation for a K-1 and I don't think she would have taken it that way either. Mostly right now Al-C needs to decompress and sort his feelings out for a few days so he can make decisions based on rational thinking.

[catzenmouse]

JB and Catz,
I think he's fine for the moment. The above quote didn't look like the follow-up to a serious invitation for a K-1 and I don't think she would have taken it that way either. Mostly right now Al-C needs to decompress and sort his feelings out for a few days so he can make decisions based on rational thinking.

 That was my first impression but the hint of the K1 made me a bit uneasy. Just wanted to throw out a little tap before the bat came into play...

[viking]

Al,

Welcome back. I am happy to hear that the last part of your journey worked out better than the first. Get some rest. I am sure that after a few emails and phone calls, you will get a better feeling about the next steps.

Who knows, maybe I will join you in Sept.?

[jb]

Rest easy, no clue bats here.

I just wanted to point up a single thing.  We have already seen what can happen if a guy spends a week or 10 days with a woman and things do not go silky smooth.  After continued reflection on the trip, we saw Photoguy talk himself into a fantasy where she's the greatest thing since sliced bread and does the marriage proposal over the phone.  Bad decision making processes, IMHO.

In this case, the woman did not show the consideration I would have expected when she decided a day at the gym was more important than spending available time with her potential future mate.  If it were me, I would have viewed that as a huge red flag.  Since this was a WOVO trip, if I had just burned all my vacation time for a year and blown the equivalent of more than a years salary for a Russian girl, I would expect to be the "Center of the Universe" for those few days as far as she was concerned.

Just putting things into perspective.

[jb]

I said that badly...  I meant the Russian girl's annual salary.  Not Al's salary.

[viking]

JB

I kinda, sorta agree understand your thought on this but not your assumptions.
Lets reverse this for a minute. Forget about money and vacation time. If a woman came to visit you for 10 days and both you were a bit nervous and not sure and, and, and.  And you always went to the gym for a few hours every Tuesday, why should you give up this time for yourself? Surely a few hours break in the day is something both parties could use after being together 24/7? Especially under these circumstances.? Maybe she just needed a break to work out some stress? Talk to herself or some friends, alone. This is not a bad thing. A few hours alone does not raise the 'red flag'. It's not like she had another date or something.

If I was in Al's shoes,IMO, I might have taken a little nap, walk around and feel good that I was going to see her again in a few hours, instead on months, get a cup of coffee and just chill. Give these people some breathing room, JB.

I think it is time for a new topic on red flags.

Also, being the center of the universe is a bit egotistic? 

[al-c]

The few hours at the gym came right on the heels of working at her job that day, and the two days before that.

I told her, both in person and in letters before I got there that if she could take off the whole week from work, I would give her the money she would not be earning, but still she went to work.  That one I let go for a number of reasons, first because maybe it was a pride issue to not look for a handout from a man she hardly knew, and second maybe her job demands her presence (she is a teacher), salary or not.

To be prefectly honest, that break from my "shadow" was welcome because it gave me a chance to explore the city on my own, not to mention being able to post here without a woman sitting in a chair waiting for me.

I felt that the gym was wrong, and I told her that, but I did not object loudly, that was until she decided to go home after the gym and do her laundry without even telling me in advance.  After the fight was over and we talked calmly about the gym, she tried to parlay it into an assumption that I would object to my wife ever going to a gym.  I told her she got it wrong because it was not about married life but instead about maximum utilization of our time together.

She got the message that doing things on her own was not acceptable because she never even suggested leaving my side for the rest of that week.  When she complained that being witih me was taking her away from things like grocery shopping and feeding dinner to her son, I asked her if there were some reason I could not do these things with her.  She looked a little astounded that a man would actually want to go grocery shopping with her, so to show her my domestic side, I not only did, but I also took her son clothes shopping, and then I cooked dinner for her and her son in her flat (beef stir-fry).

Now I have been home for 2 days and have not heard from her.  I sent her a 6 page letter I wrote on the plane, a very positive one although one that offered some constructive criticism as well.  The next move is hers.

[Shadow]

Al-c, the short version : forget about her.

The long version: You should step away from your own feelings for a moment and look to what she has displayed. about the work I can understand, it is not about not working for one week, but about losing her job if her boss finds out the reason why. She was not going to take that risk for a stranger, and I think she is right.
jb put it that if a man spends this much money and time on a woman he should be expected to be the center of the universe. He has a good point. No, a man should not demand to be the center of the universe, but he should expect that he is...if things go right. If a woman likes you she will spend all the time she can with you. If she does not, it is a signal you are not the most important thing for her.
Now take a look back. You told she showed demanding behaviour, that stopped once you showed her you did not sppreciate. She decided that the gym and doing the laundry were more important than meeting you. Look at the pictures you showed. In the first picture she is next to you looking straight at the camera, with a little distance between you and her. In your avatar she is standing next to you, again with some distance. The two of you look no different from the others in the picture, there is no 'glow' on her about meeting the man she dereamt of. It is just two people who are on a picture, not a couple. Hard to explain perhaps, but a couple who has just found love will do silly things when a picture is taken.
Now you are back 2 days, and although she cried when you left, she has not informed on how you are. If there is love, the pace of communication increases after a visit, not decreases.
Understand that I do not criticize you or her as a person, just I see that the two of you should not plan a long future together. I was not there during your meeting, I can judge only on what you wrote and the pictures you show. But before you make excuses for yourself and her, sit back and think if I am really absolutely completely wrong here.