Poll for the unmarried men

[Turboguy]

Well jb, it could be that we have 965 shy members.  It could be we have 965 people who are too busy looking at the cute doggie.  It could be we have 965 people afraid to have an opinion.  It could be they don't know what they think.  It could be there is so much good info they are too busy reading.

[Admin]

Well jb, it could be that we have 965 shy members.  It could be we have 965 people who are too busy looking at the cute doggie.  It could be we have 965 people afraid to have an opinion.  It could be they don't know what they think.  It could be there is so much good info they are too busy reading.

Actually, I am reminded of another board which boasts of more than 6,000 members - and when THEY run a poll, they are lucky to get 15 or 20 votes. This particular poll received quite a bit of attention.

- Dan

[jb]

Yeah, it could mean that, but it could also mean that there have been 900+ people stumble in here, think to themselves at first; "Hey, this sounds like fun", register and then read a bit.  After reading a few threads the reality of it all hits them like a hammer between the eyes, and they wisely move on to more achievable goals.

If that's the case, and I think it's more likely than the scenarios you presented, then this board is indeed providing a service more valuable than gold.

[KenC]

Yeah, it could mean that, but it could also mean that there have been 900+ people stumble in here, think to themselves at first; "Hey, this sounds like fun", register and then read a bit.  After reading a few threads the reality of it all hits them like a hammer between the eyes, and they wisely move on to more achievable goals.

If that's the case, and I think it's more likely than the scenarios you presented, then this board is indeed providing a service more valuable than gold.

jb,
It could be as you said, this process is too tough for some to handle.  Kind of like when they hear the advice that they don't necessarily want to hear,  Which rremindsme of one of the greatest all time scenes in the movie "A Few Good Men."  When pretty boy, Tom Cruise demands the "truth" from Jack Nicholson.  Jack makes his famous "You can't handle the truth!" speech.  In that movie as it is here, the truth is sometimes unpleasant.  It is so much easier to listen to the sunshine that the agencies and the rah rah guys blow up your azz.
KenC

[Jet]

I wish it were that easy.    I'm still trying to analyse the data of this poll.... /snip/.... I'm trying to figure out what this information is telling me. 

This info is telling you that 20 married guys voted to see how the poll results were stacking up  I know I voted for the last option, but it's only because that's how I would have voted when I stumbled onto the boards as a newbie, way back when...

[ConnerVT]

I just followed the instructions, and didn't vote.   

[Jumper]

i'm from Chicago,
so vote early and vote often!!

,wether dead or alive

[Turboguy]

Yes, AJ, but they pay you more to vote if you are alive.

[BradSTL]

Don't try to take that to the bank.  Most of the old timers here were pretty savvy going into this.  What they lacked in common sense they accquired by making multi-trip to the FSU and got their feet wet the old fashioned way, with real experience. 

Suuuuuuureeee you were!     I guess I am expected to agree with this?

[Turboguy]

I have a lot of respect for jb's advice and logic but often disagree with the words, tone and manner in which he formualtes his responses.  The same goes for most of the other old time pros.
That being said, please take my response to Brad's post with a grain of salt.  I an saying this in jest

************************

Brad,  I have to agree with you.  Sometimes I see some wise ideas, sometimes I just see someone well to be kind, could use a little more tact.   

I have an idea.  Since you disagree with jb we could start a new poll.

o   jb has the wisdom of Solomon    (Biblical not the lawyer from Billings)
o   jb has some good ideas
o   jb is right some of the time but gets a little tactless in his responses.
o   jb is full of hot air

I guess it is not really a good idea but the results would be interesting. 

[Photo Guy]

Why are there so many members here who do not post anything?

Well let's look at what this site is all about. You've got a bunch of guys sitting around sharing ideas about dating, romance, and marriage. That, in itself, is a very unusual endeavor. Imagine a group of guys sitting at a table in a bar doing the same thing. The conversation would be minimal. In other words, we do not know how to discuss the subject. There is no history of talking about women, other than to say that 'Oh, she's a bitch' or 'Wow, she's so hot' or 'Did you see that beautiful woman'. It's pretty shallow stuff, when it comes to talking about this subject. You rarely hear guys at a dinner table or bar, discussing the intricate detailed problems that another couple is having. It is sort of taboo and it is taboo for a number of good reasons. One reason is that personal relationships are quite personal in our real lives away from the internet. Aspects of a relationship are TOO personal for public perusal for many reasons. Think about that.

How do you discuss very personal matters in a non-personal objective way? It obviously requires a lot of tact. Lurkers probably see that a few 'experienced' members discard the goal of giving advise in a non-personal objective manner. Tact is lacking here, because of the anonymity factor. It's so easy (and fun) for some posters here to just fire off some disturbing criticism that makes the verbal victim run for cover and wish he or she did not post anything. Lurkers see that.

When a member of RWD posts his personal details here, there is usually a flurry of opinionated responses. So my advice to newbies is to take them all with a grain of salt, which translates as 'choose the advice that rings true for you' and ignore the other crap.

An interesting observation- have you ever noticed that the outspoken authoritarians who are now married, rarely discuss their own marriages? Why is that? Does it mean that they have 'succeeded' in grabbing that brass ring, that they have found the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow? No...I actually think it means that they are in the middle of relationship which is so personal that they choose not to share the details with the rest of the RWD world. And yet, they love to read the personal details of those of us working through the trials and tribulations of new relationships, and share their opinions in a way that makes them imagine themselves as wise, successful, and valuable mentors. Sometimes they actually are, but a newbie has to realize that a certain percentage of the advice given is just guesses that are off the mark and not applicable to the situation at hand. Lurkers see that to disagree with some of these authoritarians, is to invite severe verbal abuse, and there's a mood which is created that is simillar to a totalitarian state.

As a side note, I think it is absurd to say that luck is not a part of finding the ideal woman. Romance should not be looked at with the eyes of an accountant, with facts and figures in front of him, along with his list of 100 personal questions for the woman being interviewed for the position. There can be an element of serendipity and divine guidance. In reality, 'good luck' does exist, but you can't bank on it, or assume it will happen. Romance is a numbers game to a degree. Meeting and experiencing many women (AW and RW) will increase the odds that luck will happen. This is all just my humble opinion.

[KenC]

Doug,
You wrote:
"An interesting observation- have you ever noticed that the outspoken authoritarians who are now married, rarely discuss their own marriages? Why is that? Does it mean that they have 'succeeded' in grabbing that brass ring, that they have found the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow? No...I actually think it means that they are in the middle of relationship which is so personal that they choose not to share the details with the rest of the RWD world. And yet, they love to read the personal details of those of us working through the trials and tribulations of new relationships, and share their opinions in a way that makes them imagine themselves as wise, successful, and valuable mentors. Sometimes they actually are, but a newbie has to realize that a certain percentage of the advice given is just guesses that are off the mark and not applicable to the situation at hand".

I think most of us do not wish to post personal matters on this forum because, well, they are personal. Others, like you and Clyde, post personal information on here and then get upset when others comment on your personal life. Huh? Or better yet, you post half a story about your personal life and then criticize the comments because posters don't know the whole story. If you want to eliminate the comments about your personal life, the solution is simple: don't post personal information on a public forum.

The other idea I have about asking for input on relationship questions that you and Clyde tend to do, is that most members (not even just the guys married to RW) usually have experienced some sort of long term live in relationship with a woman and the questions and or comments appear silly and juvenile.
KenC

[Photo Guy]

KenC,
You typically go WAY BEYOND 'commenting'. And you rarely discourage the posting of personal information. Now you wish to discourage it? Oh okay. I did not realize you felt that way. A poster cannot disclose the 'entire' story, without writing a novel. Your last paragraph is condescending. It shows a great weakness to say that you have the right to make any comment here about someone's personal life, simply because they have disclosed it. That attitude is irresponsible. If you were face to face with the person being criticized, you wouldn't have the guts or lack of wisdom to do it in such a severe way, would you?  ...No, I don't think so. 

[KenC]

KenC,
You typically go WAY BEYOND 'commenting'. And you rarely discourage the posting of personal information. Now you wish to discourage it? Oh okay. I did not realize you felt that way. A poster cannot disclose the 'entire' story, without writing a novel. Your last paragraph is condescending. It shows a great weakness to say that you have the right to make any comment here about someone's personal life, simply because they have disclosed it. That attitdue is irresponsible. If you were face to face with the person being criticized, you wouldn't have the guts or lack of wisdom to do it in such a severe way, would you?  ...No, I don't think so. 

There you go again, trying to start something with me. I didn't try to discourage you from posting personal info here, just saying if you do, then don't complain about the comments. Simple, really. As for what I would do if we met face to face, the real truth is that I wouldn't give you the time of day. You really are not that important in real life.
KenC

[Photo Guy]

KenC wrote:
I think most of us do not wish to post personal matters on this forum because, well, they are personal. Others, like you and Clyde, post personal information on here and then get upset when others comment on your personal life.

Ken, most trip reports contain personal information- not just me and Clyde.
You are fooling yourself, when you say you are simply 'commenting'. That's far from the truth.
It is irresponsible to have the attitude that if a member posts something personal, that gives you a free license to be brash, condescending, insulting, etc. I agree that comments should be expected, but you have the attitude that you are not responsible for the damaging effect of your words. Isn't that attitude childish? Hey, we all make mistakes, but I am pointing out to you that your attitude can be more destructive than helpful. Can you see that? It also shows a lack of maturity to tell me that you would not give me the time of day. LOL. Why? ...because I have criticized YOUR criticisms? [/color]

[BC]

Photo,

Quite honestly I have nothing to gain or loose by discussing current personal matters here.. It's all quite 'normalna'.

I have however posted my (our) past experiences that were relevant to the situation being discussed.  I also did this quite often in your threads.

Oops.. In another thread I just posted that my wife made 500 pelmeni for me to eat while she and the kids were on vacation.. I guess that's current.

It seems like you yearn for discussions with peers, but you have to realize that not everyone here is on your timeline.

[Photo Guy]

BC,
I respect your opinion. Hey, you often echo jb's sentiments, but I think you show more tact. Just my opinion. I completely understand the reluctance of married guys to share the intimate details of their relationships. Your style of sharing is appreciated. I encourage those who are married to share information about their marriages, and I would hope members would not critize those marriages in a demeaning way. ...but there are always a couple bad apples that spoil things and discourage openness.

Should a newbie share the details of their experiences with RW - in trip reports and later during the visa period?

Or should we adhere to KenC's idea that these details are too personal to share? That idea, and the idea that personal details invite any and all comments, that range from abusive to encouraging, may generally discourage posters from posting anything except shallow over-views of their situations.  -doug

[Turboguy]

Observation # 1.   I had noticed we had not had a peep of discussion about PG in the last 10 days.

Observation # 2.   I had noticed the forum was much quieter for the last 10 days.

Observation # 3.   I noticed a while back that there were so many locks on PG subjects that I wished I had bought stock in a lock company like Yale before we started talking about PG

Observation # 4.   I am going to do my best to stay on the sidelines and out of this one.  It is not one of the things I am very proficient at though.  I can't argue with PG's statement that those who seem to want to give advice to others that don't word things tactfully sometimes seem to not share a lot about their own lives and situations but that is up to them anyway.

[BC]

Turbo,

Tactfully or not there probably is no real reluctance involved.. It's just that there is really so little to report.. We're a normal couple doing things normal couples do.  I'm certainly not going to discuss positions, fantasies or fetishes.. LOL

The only thing I can attempt to pass on is my (our) experiences as I remember it way back then.. That can't be too difficult to understand.. or?

[KenC]

So? What is your point, PG? Are you feeling a little forgotten and like a child you need some attention(good or bad)? Do you really think I give a rat's azz what your opinion of my attitude is? If you do, you are sorely mistaken. You just are not that important to me and you have long become less entertaining than you were in the past. Thank you for the sermon, it is Sunday isn't it? I'll give you one "Hallelujah" and now I'm done.
KenC

[KenC]

Observation # 1.   I had noticed we had not had a peep of discussion about PG in the last 10 days.

Observation # 2.   I had noticed the forum was much quieter for the last 10 days.

Observation # 3.   I noticed a while back that there were so many locks on PG subjects that I wished I had bought stock in a lock company like Yale before we started talking about PG

Observation # 4.   I am going to do my best to stay on the sidelines and out of this one.  It is not one of the things I am very proficient at though.  I can't argue with PG's statement that those who seem to want to give advice to others that don't word things tactfully sometimes seem to not share a lot about their own lives and situations but that is up to them anyway.

Turbo,
I wondered if you were right on the highlighted portion of your post, so I reserched my own posts over the last few days:
6/4 Posted to Groove's T/R regarding jealousy issue and how Lena handled it.
6/4 Posted to the thread regarding Michale Moore and his hometown as it is in an area that I lived for over 45 years.
6/2 Posted on Lena's student visa and how we applied for the adjustment of status in Immigration and Visa section
6/1 Posted on Lena's braces in Russia on One Week Wonder's dentist thread
5/31 Posted a very personal synopsis of my childhood work record on Clyde's thread
5/30 Started a thread "Russian Invasion" about my in laws current visit here
5/30 Posted personal experience on dentist thread started by Oen Week Wonder
5/30 Posted on Rookie's thread about how frustrating a language dif could be
5/30 Posted on Dan's midlife crisis thread about what happened to my ex wife
5/30 Posted on the human traffic thread about my experience at the TJ border with Russians and Ukrainians
5/30 Posted on human traffic thread a story relayed to me by Lena regarding modeling agencies
5/29 Posted on Groove's T/R regarding the first time I felt love for my wife

Hmmm? 11 posts regarding personal experiences that were relevant in the last 7 days! Just because I aint asking how to kiss my wife, or asking for guidence on what she said in the sack last night, doesn't mean I haven't shared personal items here. (Just for the record, I don't need any help in my personal relationship. Period. And if I did, a public forum would be the last place I would go.)
KenC

[Turboguy]

Guess I gotta eat my words where you are concerned KenC,  Gulp, gulp.  My comment was not directed only at you though or at any one individual.  It also was not anything I lay awake at night worrying about either. 

I think to some extent when you have been married a while the personal issues either get resolved or you are off getting divorced or have learned to live with it and dont think about it much more.

[jb]

Regards the married men posting personal experiences; may I simply ask,,, where do you newbies think we get our material?  Whenever I post about a possible pitfall in being married to a RW, you can bet at one time or another I personally dealt with a similar situation.  Whenever I talk about dealing with the culture shock a RW goes through after arrival, you can rest assured it's because I lived through it with a RW.  So did KenC, so did Leslie, so did BC, so did AJ, and every other married man who posts here. 

None of us just make this stuff up as we go along. 

Photoguy, Doug,  I have been one of your more serious detractors, It was I who initially mentioned that spending 4.5 days with a girl you couldn't talk to, in a setting not in her hometown, not meeting her family and friends, and BTW, didn't even kiss, may not be to most reasonable grounds for filing a K-1.  You blew me off as a bad guy from the very beginning, your choice.  When I explained to you how difficult the transition to life in America would be for any RW, and that your choice of women may not be the best, you counter-attacked with all the vigor of a pitbull.  I saw the handwriting on the wall very early in your crash and burn saga, and as it turns out, I was entirely right and you were 1,000% wrong in every respect.  Please do not come back to this board now and lay any of the blame for your own personal shortcomings on the notion that you might have done better if only you'd received more tactful advice.  That's a total crock.

My best advice to you is to go out and try to gain some dating experience with local women, stay far away from the FSU.  You do not seem to have the necessary vacation time available to devote to a serious long distance courtship, nor are you ready emotionally or financially to put your entire personal future life in the hands of another Russian woman. 

That's just my opinion based upon what you've revealed to us here, and from that, I don't think a Russian wife is the way you should be thinking.

[jb]

Turboguy wrote:

I have an idea.  Since you disagree with jb we could start a new poll.
o   jb has the wisdom of Solomon    (Biblical not the lawyer from Billings)
o   jb has some good ideas
o   jb is right some of the time but gets a little tactless in his responses.
o   jb is full of hot air

I could start another poll along those same lines:

Who do you think will be the next "Crash & Burn" victim?

1.) Turboguy
2.) Peewee
3.) Michaelangelo
4.) Oosik
5.) Bruno

I don't wish anyone bad things, but sometimes I read posts from you guys and it is obvious to me that some of you just don't have a clue.  Clue bats not withstanding, some men are not capable of seeing what's right in front of them if it's got tits or tires.

[Turboguy]

Gosh jb, don't do that.  I would probably have to vote for myself and I was always tought it is not polite to vote for yourself.

As are as the tits and tires thingy.  I guess it depends on how big they are.  Fortunately my truck has pretty big tires.  It does help short sighted people like me.