What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?

[Muzh]

To be honest and I don't wish to insult or offend any US citizens on here.
I can't stand the fact that any time there is conflict the US has to stick their nose into it!
I am not political or don't know too much about politics however it seems to me that EVERY time there is a dispute the US have to get involved.

Not to offend you but, this is exactly the same reason why you feel this way about the US "sticking" its nose into it.
 
Read, educate, discourse.

[Faux Pas]

Not to offend you but, this is exactly the same reason why you feel this way about the US "sticking" its nose into it.
 
Read, educate, discourse.

+1

[GQBlues]

...Thru NATO taking a strong emphatic stance is the way to prevent loss of life- and that will only be after all other measures are tried to make Putins Russia see some sense....

Tell that to the Serbians, Bosnians, Albanians, Libyans, Rwandans, etc...will you.

NATO, once a defensive alliance, had turned into strategically marauding post-WW II military force behind western commercial and economic exploratory machinations.

Thus: Location, location, location!

It was us, the US (NATO), that intentionally spurred and armed the KLA (Kosovo Liberation Army) (Read: 2014 Venezuela) to rise up against the Serbs & pro-Kremlin Milosevic, that began the Balkans War, which ultimately ended up in us bombing Yugoslavia day & night and Milosevic's final days...NATO IS/WAS the true butcher of the Balkans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_bombing_of_Yugoslavia

For what? The advancement of western ideals and decency? LOL. Give me a break...


"....Although politicians like Tony Blair see hope in the outcome of Kosovo for a "new internationalism where the brutal repression of whole ethnic groups will no longer be tolerated," there are too many signs that the events and repercussions of the Kosovo conflict have been cut from Old-World cloth. The West's response to humanitarian concerns in Kosovo were reinforced by strategic interests in Europe's future and the NATO alliance. If the West were truly committed to the creation of a world system where respect for humanity was of the highest order, we would take notice of other regions of the world where regimes have engaged in heinous crimes against humanity. Unfortunately, the West has ignored many of these cases.

In Rwanda in 1994, approximately 800,000 Tutsis and moderate Hutus were killed in one of the most horrendous examples of genocide since World War II. Two million people fled the country as refugees. The conditions that produced genocide in Rwanda were remarkably similar to those that led to humanitarian violations in Kosovo. A deteriorating political and economic situation led those who sought to maintain their hold on power to brand a group of people as the "scapegoat," which became the target for physical attack and murder. The international community failed to respond. Dominant powers actually resisted effective UN action, and it took over a year for President Clinton to admit that genocide occurred...."


http://www.cpjustice.org/stories/storyReader$646

[ML]

If USA citizens are so frightened of Russia they're  afraid to honour their agreement with Ukraine,regarding Ukraine giving up it's Nuclear weapons,then what's the point in the USA having all it's military strength.?

Read the agreement.  USA never said it would help Ukraine if it were attacked or invaded; USA only said it would not attack or invade Ukraine.

Russia, UK (and later China and France) said the same thing.
Only Russia has violated the agreement.

- - - -  -

As a separate question . . . should USA and other countries provide help anyway?

I vote yes . . . but we can't refer to Budapest Memorandum as the reason.

[GQBlues]

This whole the US should do something!" rhetoric is laughable...especially from the same regions of peoples who, at the same time, demonizes the US for, well, "always doing something'.

Ukraine wants to be a part of this clusterphocks?

[BillyB]

NATO taking a strong emphatic stance

NATO isn't that strong. Russia saw it's weaknesses when NATO was in action during Libya. America usually takes the lead on these kinds of operations but Obama wanted everybody to feel important so he let NATO take the lead. Our defense secretary at the time complained the worlds greatest collection of nations in the history of mankind can't even accomplish simple tasks. NATO members weren't living up to their obligations of support. Some nation's responsibility was supplying ammunition for planes and Libyan rebels and couldn't even do that on time or at all.


The more America and Europe show weakness, the chance for world war to materialize increases. People would like to believe todays problems are different than in the past or that we're more civilized. People have a good idea how WWII started but WWI started differently with an assassination.


Who really knows what it takes to have things get out of hand? Showing weakness increases the odds that things will get out of hand. What we do know is there are countries with interests that threaten our interests. Russia currently wants to annex surrounding territories. North Korea wants South Korea and nukes, Iran wants nukes and the elimination of Jews from Israel, China wants Taiwan, Arab nations would like to see Israel go, poor Arab nations would like to have oil rich Arab nations, etc... What better time in history for some of these countries to make their move than in a time of America's weakness and encourage America's decline? By all those countries collaborating and acting together, they can exploit America's weakness even better as we would have to act on multiple fronts. It's no secret behind closed doors they had meetings in the past on how to beat America militarily and economically. The only question left is the best time to act.

[jone]

One more look at an old classic:

[jone]

The Truth?  The Truth?

The truth is that there is no real separation between Russians and Ukrainians.  Especially in Ukraine.  This great enmity is manufactured for political purposes. 

If bullets start flying, and Ukraine is seen as the victim, there will be a great groundswell against Russia and the militant Russian agents in Ukraine.

[Chelseaboy]

Faux Pas,

            Yes,i  did say the same applies to the UK..so we're equally culpable for our inaction.

[Muzh]

The Truth?  The Truth?

The truth is that there is no real separation between Russians and Ukrainians.  Especially in Ukraine.  This great enmity is manufactured for political purposes. 

If bullets start flying, and Ukraine is seen as the victim, there will be a great groundswell against Russia and the militant Russian agents in Ukraine.

What is truth? Is truth unchanging law?
 
A Ukrainian serviceman has died after being shot dead in the storming of a Ukrainian military base in Simferopol, Crimea, according to a military spokesman. He said a captain was also injured and taken to hospital and other Ukrainian servicemen were arrested.
 
The Ukrainian military spokesman described the attackers as “unknown forces, fully equipped”. Russia reportedly said that Crimean self-defence fighters were shot by a sniper.
 
Following the shooting, the Ukrainian prime minister, Arseniy Yatsenyuk, accused Russia of a “war crime”. He also said the conflict had moved from the political to the military stage.
 
BUT
 
 
Russia has offered an alternative version of events in Simferopol.
 
#Russia version of Simferopol shooting says #Crimea "self-defense fighters were shot by a sniper," 1 killed.
 
The Guardian

[BillyB]

A Ukrainian serviceman has died after being shot dead in the storming of a Ukrainian military base in Simferopol, Crimea, according to a military spokesman. He said a captain was also injured and taken to hospital and other Ukrainian servicemen were arrested.
 

It seems Ukrainian soldiers are now trespassing on another country's land and lethal action will be used against them.

[GQBlues]

Not to split hairs here...its interesting to note, even before the referendum voting, Crimea had always been known as 'The Autonomous Republic of Crimea' and while it is a constituent part of Ukraine, it is not for all intent and purposes - 'Ukraine'. Hence, there hasn't been a cause for the Budapest Agreement to be at play here.

Now that Crimea population had voted for its self-determination, their basic right as an autonomous republic state, their assession to the Russian Federation should in no way be any different with Ukraine's interest to align with the west.

So, it should be all over but the shouting and hooray for Ukraine and Crimea....

Apparently in the next month or so, there will be a public auction for homes built, recently purchased or owned by 'ethnic-Ukrainians inside Crimea, which will be open for all Russian nationals and their spouses.

 

[Muzh]

Apparently in the next month or so, there will be a public auction for homes built, recently purchased or owned by 'ethnic-Ukrainians inside Crimea, which will be open for all Russian nationals and their spouses.

 

Didn't Stalin tried that in Donetsk, Lughansk and Kharkiv back in the early '30s?

[BillyB]

Crimea had always been known as 'The Autonomous Republic of Crimea' and while it is a constituent part of Ukraine, it is not for all intent and purposes - 'Ukraine'.

If Crimea was never part of Ukraine, why did they feel they needed to vote to be independent and secede from Ukraine? Canada could hold a vote and secede from America but it would be a little silly to do so if they already viewed themselves as a separate nation.

[GQBlues]

If Crimea was never part of Ukraine, why did they feel they needed to vote to be independent and secede from Ukraine? Canada could hold a vote and secede from America but it would be a little silly to do so if they already viewed themselves as a separate nation.

LOL. There's something seriously faulty in your logic.

Anyway, while not exactly the same but comparatively closer in context of constituency, think Puerto Rico and the US...

[BC]

what if....

http://www.ibtimes.com/what-if-texas-really-were-its-own-country-880112

and decided to 'go with Mexico'....

just 'what if.....'

Get the picture?

[GQBlues]

Didn't Stalin tried that in Donetsk, Lughansk and Kharkiv back in the early '30s?

...and did again along the central/eastern bloc European countries shortly after WW - II until he died. I can only hope that JustMe was smart enough to run to the bank before all these crappola happened and exchange her grivnas to rubles, LOL. She'll be psyht out of luck if she didn't.

But then again, the rubles won't be worth much after all of this is done....come to think of it, neither will the USD, Euro and the pound.

[fathertime]

what if....

http://www.ibtimes.com/what-if-texas-really-were-its-own-country-880112

and decided to 'go with Mexico'....

just 'what if.....'

Get the picture?

Hi BC,


If we were having a revolution in this country and we were weak/corrupt like Ukraine appears to be (and Mexico was vastly superior militarily) and a huge % of people in Texas wanted to secede, we might have to allow the people of Texas to go.   I sure wouldn't expect/demand countries in Europe to race in to the rescue, spending their money/resources/men. 


Fathertime!   

[BC]

...and did again along the central/eastern bloc European countries shortly after WW - II until he died. I can only hope that JustMe was smart enough to run to the bank before all these crappola happened and exchange her grivnas to rubles, LOL. She'll be psyht out of luck if she didn't.

But then again, the rubles won't be worth much after all of this is done....come to think of it, neither will the USD, Euro and the pound.

GQ

Have been working with UA programmers for years... anyone with a sense of business in UA has lodged their banking in one of the emerging EU countries like Latvia or Estonia....

[jone]

...and did again along the central/eastern bloc European countries shortly after WW - II until he died. I can only hope that JustMe was smart enough to run to the bank before all these crappola happened and exchange her grivnas to rubles, LOL. She'll be psyht out of luck if she didn't.

But then again, the rubles won't be worth much after all of this is done....come to think of it, neither will the USD, Euro and the pound.

No, but the Yuan Renminbi will!   

[BC]

Hi BC,


If we were having a revolution in this country and we were weak/corrupt like Ukraine appears to be (and Mexico was vastly superior militarily) and a huge % of people in Texas wanted to secede, we might have to allow the people of Texas to go.   I sure wouldn't expect/demand countries in Europe to race in to the rescue, spending their money/resources/men. 


Fathertime!

If I read correctly we agree more than disagree...  that's progress!!

[GQBlues]

GQ

Have been working with UA programmers for years... anyone with a sense of business in UA has lodged their banking in one of the emerging EU countries like Latvia or Estonia....

Hell BC. Are you kiddin' me? Both Estonia and Latvia are Eurozone members. The Euros will be worth as much as Saddam Dinars! That ain't too smart.

[Gator]

If we were having a revolution in this country and we were weak/corrupt like Ukraine appears to be (and Mexico was vastly superior militarily) and a huge % of people in Texas wanted to secede, we might have to allow the people of Texas to go.   I sure wouldn't expect/demand countries in Europe to race in to the rescue, spending their money/resources/men. 

Texas did secede from the Federal Union. 

This happened in 1861 and Texas quickly joined the CSA.  The newly elected President of the Federal Union declared secession legally void, and the northern states invaded and blockaded the southern states to preserve the Union.    Neither Mexico nor Russia came to the aid of the South, and the larger population and industrial superiority of the North prevailed. 

Ironically, Texas and other southern states were more autonomous prior to the secession than now.

[SANDRO43]

Canada could hold a vote and secede from America but it would be a little silly to do so if they already viewed themselves as a separate nation.

What do you mean, seceding from the American continent ? Wouldn't that require quite a lot of trench-digging on their part ?

[lordtiberius]

more wisdom from the generalismo