What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?

[Muzh]

links don't work for me.

http://tsn.ua/politika/na-harkivschini-provedut-masshtabni-viyskovi-navchannya-342093.html
 
http://tsn.ua/ukrayina/ukrayina-pidnyala-v-nebo-100-vinischuvachiv-23-bombarduvalniki-ta-39-shturmovikiv-342388.html

[Gylden]

Had to laugh

[jone]

Hi Jone!

I missed the bold Chinese moves in Africa...What exactly have they done in the past couple months?   I know recently that China has shown a lotta interest in Africa. Seems like a smart move going forward.

It seems like a smart move for China to not take either side too strongly.  I suspect they are more supportive of Russia though, if for nothing else it keeps us wasting money on too much military expense which we really can't even use because nobody wants to go to war with another nuclear power. 
Fathertime!

http://www.the-american-interest.com/articles/2014/01/10/chinas-congo-plan/


http://thediplomat.com/2014/01/chinas-bold-10-billion-investment-in-nigerian-hydrocarbons/




The People's Republic of Africa



http://www.bdlive.co.za/africa/africanbusiness/2014/01/30/zimbabwe-adopts-chinese-yuan-as-legal-currency

[fathertime]

http://www.the-american-interest.com/articles/2014/01/10/chinas-congo-plan/


http://thediplomat.com/2014/01/chinas-bold-10-billion-investment-in-nigerian-hydrocarbons/

Thanks Jone,


It looks to me like while we have been playing policeman to the world, and running up near 18 trillion in debt, the Chinese have been quietly investing the money they are earning and getting interest on to better their future prospects.  Smart moves on their part, some of those moves will probably pay off. 
 It reminds me of this classic 1 minute Youtube video.
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Fathertime! 

[lordtiberius]

Blame America first, often & for everything.

[jone]

This is a very interesting report on the 'Self-Defense' groups being put together in Ukraine. 

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/28/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

[tfcrew]

 Ukrainian navy dolphins are defecting...!!

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/27/world/europe/crimea-dolphins-defect/index.html?iid=article_sidebar

[Anotherkiwi]

Ukrainian navy dolphins are defecting...!!

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/27/world/europe/crimea-dolphins-defect/index.html?iid=article_sidebar

No, Karl, they're not - unlike the humans, they have absolutely no choice in the matter! 

[missAmeno]

http://ru.tsn.ua/politika/poyavilis-temniki-po-kotorym-kremlevskie-smi-promyvayut-mozgi-rossiyanam-357682.html

http://ru.tsn.ua/video/video-novini/ni-odno-evropeyskoe-konsulstvo-v-rossii-ne-budet-obsluzhivat-krymchan.html

[BillyB]

the Chinese have been quietly investing the money they are earning and getting interest on to better their future prospects.  Smart moves on their part, some of those moves will probably pay off. 
 

I read an article not too long ago that say many Chinese investments are risky because they're in 3rd world nations. Instead of remaining neutral, China has voted against American interests at the UN when it came to issues such as action against Libya and Syria knowing a pro Western change in regimes will make them lose their investments. We do lots of business with China but we are more competitors than friends.

[BillyB]

Putin says ethnic Russians face "brutality" in Ukraine.


http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/growing-threat-russia-invasion-eastern-ukraine-us-intelligence-1442178

[ML]

Looking back at recent history the King of invading sovereign countries has been the US, even when not supported by international law.

Which of these did USA add or annex to the territory of USA?

[alex330]

I read an article not too long ago that say many Chinese investments are risky because they're in 3rd world nations.

With risk comes reward and many will probably pay off. The Chinese are not only active in Africa right now. My last trip to Costa Rica I noticed every single police car was brand new, 250 gifts from China. They also donated 4.6 million, new soccer stadium, and a new bridge across the Nicoya. The bad news is Chinese vehicles are not known for being very reliable...

http://insidecostarica.com/2012/10/30/more-than-half-of-police-cars-donated-by-china-are-out-of-service/

The Chinese are very active right offshore here in Florida at the moment. Thirty five million dollar soccer stadium, and a mega resort is in the works in the Bahamas. I would think these are pretty safe investments.

[Gator]

Which of these did USA add or annex to the territory of USA?

Don't try logic ML, he is an inconvertible liberal. 

I play golf with a real estate developer.  He voted for Obama twice.  I asked him if there were an election today, would he still vote for Obama considering the many scandals.  He said "yes." 

My friend who is a retired school teacher would also say yes (I don't waste my breath and ask), but that is understandable.  But a real estate developer.  He is originally from Chicago.  Is that the reason?   

[lordtiberius]

Well, FT will be happy.  Obama will bend over and Putin will him in claim victory just like he did in Syria.



Men like those Gator described (and FT) are the real problem in America not the cocaine snorting Marxist gay boy

[stilllooking]

The Chinese pretty smart. While the west has thrown billions at Africa re poverty and starvation, the Chinese have identified Africa as a natural resource rich area. China needs resources, but Africa does/did not have the infrastructure in place to mine those resources and ship them. So instead of sending another 100 million worth of food they built them roads, ports etc.  In return for the infrastructure they just want those resources sent over as quickly as they can get them out of the ground. It all has to do with supply chain. You can't really fault their logic. they are basically telling Africans we won't give you food but we will provide the infrastructure so you can build an industry which will provide jobs that provide money with which you can buy food. Sounds like more of a long term solution than sending over shipments of food. Of course, some countries in Africa not the most stable and there are some pretty terrible guys running some of the countries, but, the Chinese don't care as long as the resources flow their way.

Not sure how that would affect their support for Russia or the US should it come to a war, you have to think they will look at it as a business case, "will the US stop buying everything we produce if we import the gas that would otherwise have gone to Europe / Baltic states?" I think they will take the Russian gas and rightly gamble that the US may impose some tariffs on obscure products that will affect no one, but they will not impose (higher) tarrifs on the latest Iphone, Ipad, Christmas toy etc.. The west is totally dependent on the Chinese and they know it. Western companies need the Chinese market to sell their goods so they can keep profits growing, and they need Chinese companies to produce for them not just at the budget end of the market but also in the premium brand segment to keep profit margins at the level they want/need to satisfy investors. A trade war with Russia would be peanuts compared to a trade war with China, the Chinese know it and will take full advantage of it. the Chinese will no doubt keep a close eye on things to see if while the US is busy with Russia in Europe they can sneak into Taiwan...

[lordtiberius]

The Africans want to do business with Americans not Chinese.

[fathertime]

I'm glad you consider me a problem and I'm utterly delighted that I've got inside your head! 
Fathertime!

[fathertime]

The Chinese are very active right offshore here in Florida at the moment. Thirty five million dollar soccer stadium, and a mega resort is in the works in the Bahamas. I would think these are pretty safe investments.
[/quote]
Hey alex. There is a lot of truth in that post. I will see how far along that Bahamas project is tomorrow as I pass it by.  It has to be close to completion...the chinese will compete directly with the ATlantis resort. 

If the chinese keep this up they will own half the world..they work hard though..not as many obese men sucking off the government teet.  I come to feel that we as a nation spend too much on 'defense'...so much that it isn't even defense that our military is used for nowadays. 

[BillyB]

Interesting turn of events. The White House usually doesn't mentioned who places the phone call but this time they want Americans to know that Putin called Obama on their latest talk which makes us believe Obama has the upper hand. It also leads us to believe Putin is on defense and Russia is negotiating a way out. Another trick up Putin's sleeve to keep us a few more steps behind his moves?


Where's our pro Russian posters? If Putin does back off invading Ukraine, how will the majority of Russian citizens feel? There are ethnic Russians in Ukraine and Moldova needing help. Will backing off now will reflect on Putin as being weak among Russian citizens? If Putin backs off Ukraine, Obama will be looking good.


The video also mentioned the Saudi Arabian King, who Obama met, is not happy with America's soft stance on Syria and Iran and may consider starting up a nuclear program. They won't need to depend on America anymore for their security. People have predicted an arms race if Iran goes nuclear.

[lordtiberius]

Why we don't know what Putin is thinking:



BillyB, I agree with your sentiments.  I hope the GOP can get control of both houses but it is a long time until November and an even longer time until January.  Yanukovych has been giving a number of speeches and pressers near Rostov on the Don.  He wants more referendums in the East.  But that ship is not leaving the harbor.  I am hearing reports of violence from Right Sector in Kiev and other cities.  But my relatives say things are stable but that the humiliation in Crimea has brought more discontent with an already unpopular government. 

Dr. Taras Kuzios says if Putin does invade it will be before the May 25th election.  I am looking at his military - he has according to LTC (ret) Peters 50,000 good troops - the rest are conscripts.  These troops have seen action in Chechnya, Georgia and Syria but have a mixed record of only taking cities after turning them into ruble.

If Putin has one diplomatic blunder he is done, but I think with the Russian patriotic blood up, he can withstand a number of bloody defeats before the people eat this last Tsar - but not likely, he's a survivor.  What do you think?

[BillyB]

If Putin has one diplomatic blunder he is done, but I think with the Russian patriotic blood up, he can withstand a number of bloody defeats before the people eat this last Tsar - but not likely, he's a survivor.  What do you think?

I think Putin is going to do what Putin is going to do. If he wants to be president for life, he can make that happen even with poor approval ratings. Putin does care about his popularity, returning Russia to it's glory days, and his place in history. Owning Ukraine would be a start to return to the glory days and engrave his name in the history books but that could hurt them economically or militarily....if the world had guts to apply any serious sanctions or threaten use of force to defend Ukraine.


Even if Putin told Obama he's willing to talk about a diplomatic solution, I wouldn't believe it until he pulls back his forces. Action speaks louder than words. One thing other countries have learned from recent events is that aggressive action against a neighbor improves leverage at the bargaining table.

[Slumba]

  I hope the GOP can get control of both houses but it is a long time until November and an even longer time until January.  Yanukovych has been giving a number of speeches and pressers near Rostov on the Don.  He wants more referendums in the East.  But that ship is not leaving the harbor.  I am hearing reports of violence from Right Sector in Kiev and other cities.  But my relatives say things are stable but that the humiliation in Crimea has brought more discontent with an already unpopular government. 

If you think switching between Corrupt Party D in favor of Corrupt Party R will change things, you are not thinking clearly. 

I suggest a short reading list, all is free:

War Is a Racket by Smedley Butler

Communist Manifesto - compare with D and R positions the 10 demands: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Communist_Manifesto#II._Proletarians_and_Communists

Catechism of a Revolutionary by Nechayev - makes Alinsky look like a 3rd grader writing naughty things on the bathroom stalls http://www.spunk.org/library/places/russia/sp000116.txt ... note behavior of both D and R activism compared to Nechayev

[Belvis]

Where's our pro Russian posters? If Putin does back off invading Ukraine, how will the majority of Russian citizens feel? There are ethnic Russians in Ukraine and Moldova needing help. Will backing off now will reflect on Putin as being weak among Russian citizens? If Putin backs off Ukraine, Obama will be looking good.

Here we are 
Majority of Russian citizens do not consider the invading Ukraine as a realistic scenario, moreover they would condemn it. So the invading would be a great unpleasant supprise. However  at present majority of Russian citizens watch russian TV and not CNN so they feel no concerns. Then backing off will reflect on Putin as being reasonable man whom they can trust and vote for father.
   Obama will be looking good for sure, let him thank Putin 

[I/O]

What makes you think that the US would EVER consider coming to Australia's defense?

History - about 70 years ago to be precise.