What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?

[justme100]

My understanding only Ukrainian nationals living in Crimea will be able to apply for visa in embassies located in Ukraine, those who took/take Russian passports will not be able simply because they are not Ukrainians anymore. So they would have go through embassies in Russia but they won't be able to receive visas because Crimea is not recognized internationally as a part of Russia.

http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/725254

I don't understand for whom this law then as very few here will keep their Ukrainian citizenship, it will be extremely uncomfortable for them to remain in Crimea because they won't have any rights here.

[justme100]

Justme, what is your view on alleged Russian plan for Ukraine which they hope EC and USA could agree upon in which Crimea will have new independent referendum and have united Ukrainian-Russian government?

I didn't hear anyhting about this, if you can please provide a link to the source.

[GQBlues]

Speaking of Russian passport. There apparently is (or soon will be) a new law that all Russian folks living abroad or otherwise, will have to disclose their respective dual citizenry. Those who do not submit their notification will be in violation of this 'law' and shall be punishable by doing community service.

How many hours, I don't yet know. Details forthcoming.

[justme100]

Speaking of Russian passport. There apparently is (or soon will be) a new law that all Russian folks living abroad or

Yes, Duma is in the process of elaborating the law.

[fathertime]

The one bottom line that remains is that RUssia has NOT invaded the greater part of Ukraine....I still don't believe they ever intended to. Why bother to? Who wants the hassle?  They got what they wanted through those ports.   At this point, it is time to move on.  The USA's only business is to facilitate, threats only aggravate the situation. 
I believe that when Putin and Obama talk, they are working out details on how to extricate themselves from the situation so each can save enough face to move on...Russia will keep Crimea and go no further at this time.


Fathertime! 

[Faux Pas]

I don't understand for whom this law then as very few here will keep their Ukrainian citizenship, it will be extremely uncomfortable for them to remain in Crimea because they won't have any rights here.

Yeah, that is a tough one. Maybe Ukraine should invade Crimea to protect it's citizens?

The one bottom line that remains is that RUssia has NOT invaded the greater part of Ukraine....I still don't believe they ever intended to. Why bother to? Who wants the hassle? They got what they wanted through those ports.  At this point, it is time to move on.  The USA's only business is to facilitate, threats only aggravate the situation. 
I believe that when Putin and Obama talk, they are working out details on how to extricate themselves from the situation so each can save enough face to move on...Russia will keep Crimea and go no further at this time.


Fathertime! 

FT, you have stated this now, a half a dozen times, all the while failing to acknowledge that Russia already had the Crimea Ports. That fact alone negates your statement. Why invade to gain something you already have?  Thus, your answer for the illogical invasion has no merit. The reasons Putin has cited for invading "protection and rights of Russian nationals there" has no merit either as they were never in danger. Throw those two excuses out now, why would Putin invade?

[justme100]

Yeah, that is a tough one. Maybe Ukraine should invade Crimea to protect it's citizens?

Maybe they should. But in fact new authorities even were not willing to take back those Ukrainains who decided to leave Crimea and made them wait for long hours on the border between Crimea and mainland where they were cold and hungry waiting until their motherland will remember about them and let them come back(

[justme100]

they were never in danger.

They were in danger.

[Ranetka]

Speaking of Russian passport. There apparently is (or soon will be) a new law that all Russian folks living abroad or otherwise, will have to disclose their respective dual citizenry. Those who do not submit their notification will be in violation of this 'law' and shall be punishable by doing community service.

How many hours, I don't yet know. Details forthcoming.

This is correct. To be honest when I applied for renewal of Russian passport there was a paragraph in the application form asking about other citizenships. I disclosed mine. So it is not something new but non disclosure will have consequences now.

However using our estimed member Jone's words; (Joke )  SO THIS IS NOT A LAW!!!!! YOU ARE LYING TO THE FORUM!!!!!!

[Faux Pas]

They were in danger.

Sure they were 

[jone]

I will be more gracious.   You were stating something as fact, that was not.  A law is a law.  A proposed bill is not a law.   Let's make no mistake about it.  You stated that something was a law.  It was not.  You did not recant until you were called on it.  You were drinking the Kool Aid.

As for what new restrictions Russians put on their citizens, it is totally believable.  See the difference?  It is what is called the 'sniff test'.  Most people can smell something to see if it is correct.  You have a problem that your nose doesn't work.

[jone]

 

FP, I still believe Putin is going to invade.  I, along with the majority of Ukrainians. 

If not he has polarized a neighbor and made them so pro-west that they will turn totally away from Russia.  And all for a Crimean economy that he will have to support.  A pariah supporting a pariah.  It doesn't make any sense.  It will be five years before they get that bridge built from Russia to Crimea.  By that time, Crimea will be in open revolt again because of how bad their lives have become.  Lucky they have the Russian troops on station.

[Ranetka]

I will be more gracious.   You were stating something as fact, that was not.  A law is a law.  A proposed bill is not a law.   Let's make no mistake about it.  You stated that something was a law.  It was not.  You did not recant until you were called on it.  You were drinking the Kool Aid.

As for what new restrictions Russians put on their citizens, it is totally believable.  See the difference?  It is what is called the 'sniff test'.  Most people can smell something to see if it is correct.  You have a problem that your nose doesn't work.

It would have been helpful if you start sharing the information you have instead of useless rhetoric and insights into mine or Putin's mind.

[Faux Pas]

FP, I still believe Putin is going to invade.  I, along with the majority of Ukrainians. 

If not he has polarized a neighbor and made them so pro-west that they will turn totally away from Russia.  And all for a Crimean economy that he will have to support.  A pariah supporting a pariah.  It doesn't make any sense.  It will be five years before they get that bridge built from Russia to Crimea.  By that time, Crimea will be in open revolt again because of how bad their lives have become.  Lucky they have the Russian troops on station.

jone,
None of the excuses the talking heads discuss for reasoning or Putin's excuses or reasoning makes any sense for the an invasion or annexation. That would only point to that Crimea is the beginning rather than the ending. Western Ukraine should be alarmed. Putin now knows he can invade it and the West will stand idle while he does it. He is waiting on an incident, no doubt, one of his devices or making. It's a cross this line in the sand, then cross this one, then this one and so on.

The Russian economy like most economies in the world right now, is sucking some ass. Putin two years ago was facing down mass protests in Moscow. Now since invading a helpless neighbor has a 70%+ approval rating, riding high on a strong wave of patriotism. An excellent move for his popularity and help the Russians forget their ruble woes. Yeah, I think it's just beginning, too.

[CanadaMan]

You mean like Canada?

 If it will really make you feel better, then yes, Canada is an aggressor nation; a marginal one at best.
 

[Ranetka]

jone,
None of the excuses the talking heads discuss for reasoning or Putin's excuses or reasoning makes any sense for the an invasion or annexation. That would only point to that Crimea is the beginning rather than the ending. Western Ukraine should be alarmed. Putin now knows he can invade it and the West will stand idle while he does it. He is waiting on an incident, no doubt, one of his devices or making. It's a cross this line in the sand, then cross this one, then this one and so on.

The Russian economy like most economies in the world right now, is sucking some ass. Putin two years ago was facing down mass protests in Moscow. Now since invading a helpless neighbor has a 70%+ approval rating, riding high on a strong wave of patriotism. An excellent move for his popularity and help the Russians forget their ruble woes. Yeah, I think it's just beginning, too.

More insights into Putin's mind. Fantastic! BBC analysts are not sure what the next his step is going to be but our esteemed members know for sure....You guys spent any time in a spy school with him or what?

[justme100]

More insights into Putin's mind.

Enigma of the century

[jone]

It would have been helpful if you start sharing the information you have instead of useless rhetoric and insights into mine or Putin's mind.

There is no one on this forum who has insights into your mind.   

As for Russian intentions, from a global perspective, history is against Putin and the moves he has made unless he occupies more of Ukraine.  There is no speculation on what Putin is thinking.

[Daveman]

More insights into Putin's mind. Fantastic! BBC analysts are not sure what the next his step is going to be but our esteemed members know for sure....You guys spent any time in a spy school with him or what?

A discussion forum would be rather boring if everyone stated what they (verified fact) *know* as opposed to what they *think*.  Don't ya think?

There is always kool-aid distributed to all sides from their local kool-aid vendor. 

[Ranetka]

 from a global perspective, history is against Putin and the moves he has made unless he occupies more of Ukraine. 

Thanks for your reply. In your opinion what are the benefits of Russia invading more of Ukraine instead of not and how do you think the situation will develop if Russia does not do any moves towards invading Ukraine.

[Ranetka]

A discussion forum would be rather boring if everyone stated what they (verified fact) *know* as opposed to what they *think*.  Don't ya think?

There is always kool-aid distributed to all sides from their local kool-aid vendor.

I agree on both counts. Just sharing my opinion, that's all.
I find it's funny how many men here have to ask opinion of others on some random RW's behaviour but Putin;s thought process is clearly so easy to crack...lol

[Faux Pas]

More insights into Putin's mind. Fantastic! BBC analysts are not sure what the next his step is going to be but our esteemed members know for sure....You guys spent any time in a spy school with him or what?

Well please, tell us why he invaded Ukraine? 

[justme100]

how do you think the situation will develop if Russia does not do any moves towards invading Ukraine.

question was not for me, but still...
Ukraine has a huge external debt and empty budget. It's spring now, time for sowing campaign that was not started in many places because of the last events and economical situation in the country.
They(Ukrainians) are now shouting loud on all the fora that they are now in the position of being pissed off by Russia so all the world countries are standing in queue to help them with money. The USA already gave them money, in return Yacenuk brought to America Ukrainian gold. Question arises - will the USA give more money when Ukraine will run out of this loan which happen very quickly? What other countries will be willing to give money to Ukraine?
Meanwhile winter comes - with reduced crops because spring was lost for sowing and with immense prices for gas and electricity. Pensions and salaries are already reduced in Ukraine in order "to overcome difficult situation due to revolution" as the leaders of the country claim. So, what will be next?

[Ranetka]

Well please, tell us why he invaded Ukraine? 

I find the way your question is formulated is loaded. As you are aware, not everyone consider Crimea's annexation as invasion. I also feel you are not interested in my opinion therefore I am not going to address your question.

[justme100]

Well please, tell us why he invaded Ukraine?