What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?

[lordtiberius]

I was waiting for you to provide a quote regarding the first falsehood you wrote...but obviously none is forthcoming.

When somebody is so willing to bald-face lie

You know what?  I retract my statement.  What I mistook for hatred for Ukrainian freedom was a hatred for your own country.  That is startling and disturbing.  Have you thought about running for President?

[fathertime]

You know what?  I retract my statement.  What I mistook for hatred for Ukrainian freedom was a hatred for your own country.  That is startling and disturbing.  Have you thought about running for President?

Ok that is fine. Thanks for admitting and retracting the false statement.
Haha, but I don't think Obama hates the country..and I like it just fine myself despite what I see as a very self-destructive foreign policy.
Fathertime!

[lordtiberius]

false statement.

A misunderstanding differs from a lie in shape and intent.  It would be nice if you would demonstrate some of that courtesy that you insist from others

[fathertime]

A misunderstanding differs from a lie in shape and intent.  It would be nice if you would demonstrate some of that courtesy that you insist from others

misunderstanding...once or twice, maybe 3 times...yeah ok...but after a while it looks like an intentional tactic. 


I don't demonstrate any more courtesy than the person to whom I'm dealing with has given me...seems fair enough.


Fathertime!   

[southernX]

as time goes by , more information comes to the surface , i think this is important enough to post twice

crimea more real referendum results on march 16
link below

http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2014/05/05/putins-human-rights-council-accidentally-posts-real-crimean-election-results-only-15-voted-for-annexation/

To make sure no one misses this:

Official Kremlin results: 97 percent of polled voters for annexation, turnout 83 percent, and 82 percent of total Crimean population voting in favor.

President’s Human Rights Council mid-point estimate: 55 percent of polled voters for annexation, turnout 40 percent, 22.5 percent of total Crimean population voting in favor.

[southernX]

more democratic help from russia

link below
http://khpg.org/index.php?id=1399384730

[southernX]

more info on odessa fires

http://khpg.org/index.php?id=1399333622

SX

[lordtiberius]

As some of the posters hate America and hate our government.  Might it be an interested of all concerned to listen to what senior members of the 4th Estate have to say:



Listen to the last 10 seconds of the video where George Will says, "notice we aren't talking about Crimea anymore. Crimea is a done deal."

That statement is an outrage & pretext for war with Russia.

[southernX]

more odessa info below in the link

what jumps out is the totally different attire worn by pro ukrainians [normal street casual ]  & pro russians semi prptective militia clothing ]
and the carrying of weapons by pro russians


http://napaki.livejournal.com/100072.html
SX

[fathertime]

as time goes by , more information comes to the surface , i think this is important enough to post twice

crimea more real referendum results on march 16
link below

http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2014/05/05/putins-human-rights-council-accidentally-posts-real-crimean-election-results-only-15-voted-for-annexation/

Hi SX,


It appears that the article Muzh linked out of anger, on the propaganda thread is a phony..but he has slithered away.


This would be very big news, if it were credible yet the major news outlets aren't touching it....it appears that it was a blogger making things up....the story seems far fetched....with nothing to back it up.   


Not that I believe the 97% number either, because I think most people don't.


Fathertime!   

[southernX]

This would be very big news, if it were credible yet the major news outlets aren't touching it....it appears that it was a blogger making things up....the story seems far fetched....with nothing to back it up.   

FT , i cant gaurantee it is legite , however the connections do seem to have credibility , not only in this story but in others iv read from them , as for it not being picked up by major news outlets, probably a few  reasons for that
first is its been removed from the russian web ,
 second,  is just about all players recognise crimeas is a done deal , all else is argueing about semantics of the russian invasion there ,
 third every new hour brings much more ghastly front page stuff to run with for news outlets ,

with time the smaller investigations/web sites  will throw up items like this
similar with yanuconvicts money trail etc etc as pieces are placed together from many sources
SX

[lordtiberius]

A lot of the pro-Putin shills brag about how Russia has a free press.  If Russia's press is free, why do so many of its journalists end up dead?

[Faux Pas]

FT , i cant gaurantee it is legite , however the connections do seem to have credibility , not only in this story but in others iv read from them , as for it not being picked up by major news outlets, probably a few  reasons for that
first is its been removed from the russian web ,
 second,  is just about all players recognise crimeas is a done deal , all else is argueing about semantics of the russian invasion there ,
 third every new hour brings much more ghastly front page stuff to run with for news outlets ,

with time the smaller investigations/web sites  will throw up items like this
similar with yanuconvicts money trail etc etc as pieces are placed together from many sources
SX

Forbes is a legit website but, it's like all the rest of the legit sites, in that the truth is there but should be questioned

[JayH]

FT , i cant gaurantee it is legite , however the connections do seem to have credibility , not only in this story but in others iv read from them , as for it not being picked up by major news outlets, probably a few  reasons for that
first is its been removed from the russian web ,
 second,  is just about all players recognise crimeas is a done deal , all else is argueing about semantics of the russian invasion there ,
 third every new hour brings much more ghastly front page stuff to run with for news outlets ,

with time the smaller investigations/web sites  will throw up items like this
similar with yanuconvicts money trail etc etc as pieces are placed together from many sources
SX

That is the truth for sure,( bolded quote)
The details of numbers of Crimean poll I posted links about a week later that had a lot of this info-- from recollection it was about 36%(or less) eligible voted. Also of question at that time( and forever of course) was who was voting and how many times individuals voted. The source at that time has proved credible and very early with a lot of other info.
What is ridiculous is that some still want to argue about that poll--it was a sham from one end to the other. It's only purpose was so Putin could say --look at all the support we have for invasion and usurping Ukrainian Sovereign territory.
The persistant comment  about "majorities" is a 100% nonsense comment-- nothing was decided on any acceptable basis.
The pattern is now being attempted again in eastern/southern Ukraine-- the intent is not to let anything go to a scrutanisable election at any cost.
To FT( & others)-- some of us are not here for the sake of a debate  of theoretical points of view-- these are real life emotional issues for many here. It is not about pro-Rus or even pro-Ukraine--it is about Ukrainians right to make choices themselves-- and not at the point of a gun.Most of us-- were at worst ambivalent about Russia before the Crimean invasion. So many families are rooted in both countries that have so much common modern history-- so what is going on now is so distasteful in every way.

[Shadow]

What is truly ridiculous is that people seek at any kind of straws not to have to believe the truth.

Posting fake pictures in order to make it seem that the 'soccer fans' with contained speciald forces of the Ukrainian army were innocent people, and the 'terrorists' burned themselves.

Face the truth. Even if you wish to support the Orangists (and you are free to do that) stop denying the terrible act that people did, and forget the idea that the side you label as 'good' can not commit atrocities.

[lordtiberius]

Its war. Get over it.

[Shadow]

Its war. Get over it.

What war? In February you told there was a victory. So how can there be war now.

[fathertime]

I just read that Russia was pulling it troops aeay from Ukrainian border and encouraging a postponement of the goofy referendum this Sunday.  This moght bode well for no invasion of the mainland... which i never felt was feasible.  Perhaps there is a deal in the works.

Fathertime!

[lordtiberius]

Mike Giglio is reporting Russian volunteers are filibustering inside Ukraine. Multiple accounts report Spetsnaz in Eastern and Southern Ukraine. You deny there is a war or invasion.  What a win win . . .

[fathertime]

Mike Giglio is reporting Russian volunteers are filibustering inside Ukraine. Multiple accounts report Spetsnaz in Eastern and Southern Ukraine. You deny there is a war or invasion.  What a win win . . .

Bwahaha...you seem very disappointed at any potential lessening of tensions. ...TOO BAD for you that your wet dream of sending other people's children into pointless battlefield charges may not come to fruition...I feel soooo sorry for you!

Fathertime!

[lordtiberius]

Practice what you preach

[fathertime]

Practice what you preach

I am.   I’m showing a dishonorable individual, what he has earned… no respect…Why complain? you had your opportunities to discuss things in an honest/rational way...you chose to distort/misrepresent/name-call... You reap what you have sewn.


Fathertime! 

[southernX]

has putin blinked ??  time will tell
one would hope so and it will reduce tensions etc
major damage has already been done between ukrainians , east and west by his hand

however my cynical side thinks it is more strategic manouvering to confuse & delay his main ambition, with a get out of town back door plan if needed
 
watch now as we all try to again analyze his motives and forescast his aims

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/07/us-ukraine-crisis-putin-idUSBREA460WI20140507

SX

[BillyB]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/07/us-ukraine-crisis-putin-idUSBREA460WI20140507

Putin's call for pro-Moscow separatists to postpone an independence referendum in eastern Ukraine is more important than him pulling back his troops. Putin was always in charge of Pro Russians in Ukraine and violence should stop at his command....at least temporarily. Will Putin give the May 25 election a chance by asking pro Russians to take non violent action and speak their minds at the ballot?

[lordtiberius]

I am.   I’m showing a dishonorable individual, what he has earned… no respect…Why complain? you had your opportunities to discuss things in an honest/rational way...you chose to distort/misrepresent/name-call... You reap what you have sewn.


Fathertime!

Ok