What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?

[sleepycat]

LOL. I wonder why the heck will *I* even waste my time telling my story

That's coming from someone with 5000+ posts.

Touchy are we?

[GQBlues]

That's coming from someone with 5000+ posts.

Touchy are we?

Nope. Life's been good to me, man...I know this isn't the same for everyone, but...I'm glad for it to be me.

[Faux Pas]

Sure looks like civil war has already begun.

My take would be "on the verge" of civil war. Remove the Russian fomenting and you'd be left with highly charged political disagreement. At some point Kiev will either take control of the situation or completely breakdown and bow to Putin's will which will cause war which, I would say is where Putin's bets are hedged. If it does break out into civil war, Putin has all the justification he needs to invade FWIW

[LiveFromUkraine]

My take would be "on the verge" of civil war. Remove the Russian fomenting and you'd be left with highly charged political disagreement. At some point Kiev will either take control of the situation or completely breakdown and bow to Putin's will which will cause war which, I would say is where Putin's bets are hedged. If it does break out into civil war, Putin has all the justification he needs to invade FWIW

You may be right FP.  I would hope that if Russia were to disengage (with whatever activities they are currently doing) things would boil down to non violent disagreement.  My guts tell me otherwise but maybe the degree of violence would be lessened.


Putin got Crimea, I would be surprised if he risked more by invading.  The current gov is certainly walking a tight rope there with trying to put down the violent offenders while not provoking an all-out Putin invasion. 

With stories like GQ linked too, it seems the gov isn't doing such a good job in that department.

[GQBlues]

Well, you just got to love the French. At least they're consistent, and not all European political parties agree with what the west apparently is doing.

What a mess...

[BillyB]

My take would be "on the verge" of civil war.

That sounds about right where Ukraine is at. Since the beginning of unrest in east Ukraine, only a few dozen people have died. There needs to be a series of a few incidences to ignite a war. People burning alive in buildings in Odessa weren't enough to start a war. A couple of citizens getting shot at a voting station weren't enough. There will be more deaths. This won't end soon. Putin has plenty of time on his hands.

Touchy are we?

You're starting to figure out GQ. He likes to make a lot of noise around here and when he's upset, he calls people names and abuses his keyboard while on the job. His boss is paying for most of his posts here so it pays to insult people on the internet. To be fair, I think we've all called people names before, but most of us graduated past the 4th grade. Someday he may realize nobody in history ever achieved greatness while putting others down but can't deny, putting others down sure helps with insecurity issues.

[Maxx2]

Sorry maxx...I have my reasons so don't take it personally. 

No problems. Besides the PTB might read our PMs and they would know our schemes  [size=78%] [/size]

[GQBlues]

...You're starting to figure out GQ. He likes to make a lot of noise around here and when he's upset, he calls people names and abuses his keyboard while on the job. His boss is paying for most of his posts here so it pays to insult people on the internet. To be fair, I think we've all called people names before, but most of us graduated past the 4th grade. Someday he may realize nobody in history ever achieved greatness while putting others down but can't deny, putting others down sure helps with insecurity issues.

I take special delight doing it to you BillyB  I mean, no one ever bragged about being an honor student like you have and be proven otherwise so easily.

As for my *boss* - I AM the boss..

[GQBlues]

No problems. Besides the PTB might read our PMs and they would know our schemes 

To be fair, I can't send one to anyone either...my message box is clean and empty.

[lordtiberius]

Joe Biden's son joins the Board of Directors in Ukrainian gas company.  The best argument (though unarticulated) the Putinistas have against Euromaidan is that they would be trading one set of Oligarchs for another. 

What say you?

[Faux Pas]

You may be right FP.  I would hope that if Russia were to disengage (with whatever activities they are currently doing) things would boil down to non violent disagreement.  My guts tell me otherwise but maybe the degree of violence would be lessened.


Putin got Crimea, I would be surprised if he risked more by invading.  The current gov is certainly walking a tight rope there with trying to put down the violent offenders while not provoking an all-out Putin invasion. 

With stories like GQ linked too, it seems the gov isn't doing such a good job in that department.

If he can continue to foment and agitate without the world coming down on him and threatening him militarily it's possible he can spur a civil war inside Ukraine. At which such time, the world will ask him to save it. He can then invade with the worlds blessing.

Yeah I know it's quite a stretch but it is a logical scenario. His troops have not left the Ukrainian border. They are there for a reason.

[BillyB]

Joe Biden's son joins the Board of Directors in Ukrainian gas company.  The best argument (though unarticulated) the Putinistas have against Euromaidan is that they would be trading one set of Oligarchs for another. 

What say you?

A lot of people is going to think it's all about making money and Joe Biden's trip to Ukraine last month was to get his son a job but I don't think so. Earlier I mentioned for Ukraine to turn it's economy around, they need to bring in outsiders who know how to get things done and to watch over things so corruption doesn't rule. Germany and Japan had successfully turned their economies around after WWII with outside help. I hope Ukraine brings in more Westerners to help out with building their economy and the money that the West is giving Ukraine needs to have overseers to make sure it's being used in the right places.


I have completely opposite political beliefs compared to Joe Biden's son but he very well may be qualified to help Ukraine move in the right direction and make sure our American tax dollars get spent wisely. I wish him well at his new job.

[LiveFromUkraine]

 I hope Ukraine brings in more Westerners to help out with building their economy and the money that the West is giving Ukraine needs to have overseers to make sure it's being used in the right places.

lol  Overseers, eh?  Hilarious... you can complain about Putin's influence over Ukraine and then say the West needs to have overseers to make sure Ukraine is being a good little boy.

[BillyB]

you can complain about Putin's influence over Ukraine

Yes, I, you, and the majority of Ukrainian people can complain. Putin had influence over Ukraine. Their government and economy was in sorry shape, corruption was a way of life, and it wasn't going to get better with Putin running the show.


Have patience. It will take some time but Ukraine could be the next Poland and it's citizens will eventually make more income than the average Russian citizen.

[lordtiberius]

Why is it that we can complain, but people in Russian can't complain about the balding blonde ball from Heaven?

BTW, turns out there Nazis in Ukraine
http://belsat.eu/en/wiadomosci/a,19735,orthodox-army-of-donbas-russian-neofascist-organisation-recruits-volunteers-in-belarus.html

But they are from the Kremlin

I hope Ukraine kicks Putin's sorry ass like Solange did to Jiggerman.

[Maxx2]

Joe Biden's son joins the Board of Directors in Ukrainian gas company.  The best argument (though unarticulated) the Putinistas have against Euromaidan is that they would be trading one set of Oligarchs for another. 

What say you?
[/quote

I caught that too. Another reason to believe America engineered the coup for the financial benefit of the insiders.

[Muzh]

I just read that Russia was pulling it troops aeay from Ukrainian border and encouraging a postponement of the goofy referendum this Sunday.  This moght bode well for no invasion of the mainland... which i never felt was feasible.  Perhaps there is a deal in the works.

Fathertime!

LMAO



Well, is your massive head stuck again?


Where is the proof you so adamantly demand? Show some pictures, anything, proving the Russians are pulling out.


Kinda tough talking when your head is stuck, isn't it?


Oh well, back on perpetual vacation mode. Heh, heh, heh

[Maxx2]

A lot of people is going to think it's all about making money and Joe Biden's trip to Ukraine last month was to get his son a job but I don't think so. Earlier I mentioned for Ukraine to turn it's economy around, they need to bring in outsiders who know how to get things done and to watch over things so corruption doesn't rule. Germany and Japan had successfully turned their economies around after WWII with outside help. I hope Ukraine brings in more Westerners to help out with building their economy and the money that the West is giving Ukraine needs to have overseers to make sure it's being used in the right places.


I have completely opposite political beliefs compared to Joe Biden's son but he very well may be qualified to help Ukraine move in the right direction and make sure our American tax dollars get spent wisely. I wish him well at his new job.

Unbelievable 

[lordtiberius]

I don't support the Obama's.  I support Ukraine.  This from a respected pro-Euromaidan blogger Max Seddon.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/maxseddon/bidens-son-polish-ex-president-quietly-sign-on-to-ukrainian?s=mobile

Basically impeaches US credibility, but at least with Junior  there, the Army gets some tanks. . . Embarrassing . . .  no honor or even class . . .

[fathertime]

LMAO



Well, is your massive head stuck again?


Where is the proof you so adamantly demand? Show some pictures, anything, proving the Russians are pulling out.


Kinda tough talking when your head is stuck, isn't it?


Oh well, back on perpetual vacation mode. Heh, heh, heh

You and your viewpoint are irrelevant from my perspective.   You are only semi-literate" , because if you read what I wrote you would see that I wrote: "I read that Russia was pulling out it's troops"...all that is required is that I would have read it... I bet the moment you walked out that door for the last time, the fellow employees started with the high fives and partying like it was 1999... and disinfecting that office of yours...

Fathertime!   

[fathertime]

Biden's son being on the board of the largest Ukrainian gas company...it certainly looks bad to me...I'm a little surprised that our people didn't pull him aside and mention it might not be a good idea RIGHT NOW.   I'm curious how other countries will view this.  I'd say it gives the appearance of some impropriety.


Fathertime! 

[GQBlues]

So now after all the silly denial of USA's intervention in another country's state of affairs, what with all the illegal take over of a sovereign government, violence handed over to the country's citizenry, and all the chaos and uncertainty that wrapped the entire country, not to mention the pending division within its border; all the western media stooges can only say, 'oh well?'....

People died in this crisis. It sent an entire nation of people in desperate times...oh well?

Don't be give me this crap about USAID and all that silly feel good stuff. Tell that to those people who died in Kiev, people who were burned alive in Odessa and the family who survived them that they should all feel good the ol' USA caused and financed their suffering and ordeal.

This ain't about some silly sanctimonious acts of kindness. This has always been about geopolitical establishment and hegemony.

[lordtiberius]

Russia's military despite the fancy parades is not that competent.  Putin I think is afraid his army will disappoint him like they did in Georgia, Chechnya and Syria.  For Obama, this is all about Syria not Ukraine. But if Putin invades he has played out all his cards and loses at least temporarily all that oil revenue from his EU customers and might push them over to finding more reliable supply. 

The Germans are playing a double game. Westerwelle is gone and Schroeder's SPD is in Merkel's government.  Even members of her own party and own district do not support harsh terms for Putin.

Putin's hold on power is approaching the absurd.  He, as Emperor of the Third Rome, like Nero and Commodus, is indulging in his hobbies to build weak popular support.  Most Russians are patriotic but even by calling Ukrainians Nazis, many have blood ties to Ukraine.  Meanwhile Defense Minister Dmitry Rogozin threatens to bomb Romania after she denied him entrance into her airspace.

We had 23 years to disarm these bastards. Can't blame everything on Obama.

[lordtiberius]

So now after all the silly denial of USA's intervention in another country's state of affairs, what with all the illegal take over of a sovereign government, violence handed over to the country's citizenry, and all the chaos and uncertainty that wrapped the entire country, not to mention the pending division within its border; all the western media stooges can only say, 'oh well?'....

People died in this crisis. It sent an entire nation of people in desperate times...oh well?

Don't be give me this crap about USAID and all that silly feel good stuff. Tell that to those people who died in Kiev, people who were burned alive in Odessa and the family who survived them that they should all feel good the ol' USA caused and financed their suffering and ordeal.

This ain't about some silly sanctimonious acts of kindness. This has always been about geopolitical establishment and hegemony.

You're right. Row See Yah! Refer rent dumb. Putin! Yanukovych!

[JohnDearGreen]

We had 23 years to disarm these bastards. Can't blame everything on Obama.

just send a dozen little green men in little green unmarked f-16's to buzz around crimea for a few days.
he won't know where they are from or who to fight back against.