Dear John! part 1

[wiz]

This is part 1 of my efforts to educate my imaginary friend, John and possibly others in the subject of finding an honest woman in the FSU countries.

More to follow……..

 
Dear John

The following comments are directed to you and others, who are using Dating agencies to find a wife in Russia or Ukraine.

Comments on this board and other sites about dating and getting married to women in FSU, prompt me to have a look around the internet and dating agencies sites.

Are they worth the money or they are scammers, praying on single peoples desires of finding the right woman?

I appreciate that some members of this board, are sensitive when it comes to the subject talking about Eastern European women, but on the other hand there are many others who may want to talk about it!

Here is a copy of the welcome page of a dating agency.

“You will want to meet the ladies in person and find your match fast! We can help. We offer the widest variety of options for tours in the industry. Whether you want a private one-on-one atmosphere or you prefer a social with hundreds of women to meet, the choice is yours. You can also mix and match the services that you purchase, choose the hotels you stay at and decide for yourself how long your trip is going to be. When you join one of our tours you will experience cities rich in culture and tradition. The former Soviet Union is an exciting and rewarding place to visit.

Russian women are certainly some of the most beautiful and sincere women in the world. Russian women posses traditional values that are so hard to find in Western society. Their attentive loving ways will charm you and their feminine well kept appearance will captivate you. It is certainly extremely easy to fall in love with one of the exceptional ladies from one of the countries of the former Soviet Union.

Russian girls want to find a true, loving relationship and to establish a warm and loving family environment. Their commitment to traditional family values will impress you. Finding their lifetime partner and friend, that one special person with whom they can love and share the intimate and important issues in life, is a Russian lady’s dream and most important goal in life.

These Russian women are marriage-minded, highly educated, loyal, intelligent, beautiful and loving. They are seeking friendship, love, and marriage to men from all over the world. The high rate of unemployment and alcoholism among Russian men make them look elsewhere for good husbands. Moving to another part of the world is not an easy decision for them. They have decided to leave the only life they know in order to build a new life with the right man. They wait for their hopes and dreams to come true and to find a kind, caring man to love and create a loving happy family. There are no equals to Russian brides for faithfulness and loyalty. They stand proudly in times of hardship, and will devote their love and trust to you for a lifetime. They do not have the same attitudes toward men as most Western women. Their idea of the perfect man is someone with a stable job who is not an alcoholic and will love them and be faithful to them. Looks, income, and material things are not so important to them. “


Now all the above sounds as a very honest statement from this agency and others have similar welcome messages, but in reality is nothing more that a spin to make single men from the west and particularly from USA to get in touch with them.

Of course the MOB has become a huge business and everybody is at it now making money out of single men who they think that by using one of these agencies is much safer and they will meet REAL women interested in finding a husband who will offer them a better standard of living from the one they have currently.

Many of these agencies organise tours and parties in Russia and Ukraine, charging a lot of money for their services. I have heard some stories that these agencies just invite poor women to the parties to have a good drink and some pocket money. Their only obligation is to have some short conversations with these men. So the men meet several nice looking and ALL young women, maybe manage to exchange a few words, and if they find some good looking woman talking to them they think they are with a good chance and so on and on.

The fact remain that these men are easy pray and paid lots of money, met several women which wetted their appetite and go back home having achieved nothing more than a tour around Russia or Ukraine.

Other men get in touch with local dating agencies, receive some nice photos to choose, pay lots of money for their services, send presents to women etc and finally make the trip.

There men according to your comments, INTERVIEW (what a stupid expression),  actually meet some women for a very short time, pay more money to the agencies for their services and some, go and get married to a person, with whom hardly can communicate, have nothing in common, spend a lot more money for visas, bribes to get the visas, tickets etc to find after a few months the woman of their dreams has flown the nest, as described in another post.

Not all of these agencies are scammers, some definitely are, but all of them offer you a service with limited chance of success.

Sorry but these agencies are offering nothing more that you could not do it your self, save a lot of money and making sure that you find the right person, if you are lucky to come across to her.

WHY ALL THESE MEN GO TO RUSSIA OR UKRAINE?

Why? It comes down to the difference between the West and Ukraine.

In the FSU countries there are relatively few available men, by "available" I mean, healthy, intelligent, financially and emotionally secure. In the West there is actually a surplus of such men relative to the population of women, and as a result the men in the West are not very "valuable". Therefor the less valuable men can simply go to Russia or Ukraine where they are perceived as having higher value. Think of it as an import-export business.

In Ukraine the average young man either lives with his family or shares a tiny apartment with several room-mates. He does this because his two hundred USD/month salary doesn't allow him enough money to live on his own. Is this the kind of man women would find attractive to start a family with?

Many men in Ukraine are also very arrogant towards women, especially if they're the only or older son, they've been brain-washed by their mother's into thinking they're "special", and people who think they're special, aren't concerned too much about other people, does that sound attractive for a mate?

So given a choice, a lot of women would gladly choose a Westerner, even if he's older, not as good looking as a young Slavic God, just as long as he isn't like the men she's had to deal with all her life. So it's not just the lack of drinking Vodka that makes a Westerner more attractive, it's all of the advantages he can offer a Ukrainian woman, that a Ukrainian man can't.

Life isn't fair, but it's never wrong.
 
Many members in other posts made some good observations and comments about American men going to Ukraine or Russia to find women.

In summary most of the American men who travel to Ukraine or Russia, are either old or unattractive but they have plenty of money and they use their money to find young very attractive women over there for sex. These agencies of course, are well organised and earn their money by feeding you with all these lists, photos and e-mail addresses and providing you with the extra additional services like translation etc. In the UK we call it SEX Trade!

Many British men also go abroad to Philippines, Vietnam and of course Thailand for the same reason. There they pay these agencies to find them young women for sex or visit the many sex parlours where they have plenty of sex on the cheap. There are also some weird men who they go there to have sex with underage children, or to use some of these so called, “Lady boys”. Unfortunately there are so many nasty and weird people around so no nation is immune of them.

Dear John, I read most of your posts and I can tell you that, what comes across is that you only go to Ukraine to find women for sex. You like them young and attractive and you have money to spend to satisfy your craving, you are not really looking to find a decent attractive woman to make a family. That is the truth of the matter and while you are in Ukraine, you meet other American men and you compare notes. Some men of course travel to Ukraine to find a nice woman to mary.

My dear John, you were surprised that a young woman was kissing passionately in the mouth an older man but I have told you before that she was doing her job and making sure she could get more money out of that man, in simple words for you to understand, she was a prostitute providing him with a service for which he had to pay her.

What I am curious is: Why American men have to go so far to find prostitutes?

Don’t you have any attractive ones over there? I expect you do but must be very expensive.

Don’t tell me that there are no Dating agencies in USA, because we know there are many 1000’s, to find a nice attractive woman to make family and have children?

Your problem is that American women are not easy to handle. You know very well if you start messing them around they will divorce you and take you to the cleaners. So your choice is to go and find Ukrainian women who suppose to be more family orientated and submissive. To your surprise you discover that they are not that timid or stupid but are very clever making money out of you. They either offering you sex, for which you have to pay heavily, or massaging your ego, by escorting you around, have nice dinners and presents and you in your generous nature helping them out to survive financially.

Nice little earner and both parties, you and the Ukrainian women are HAPPY.

How can anyone blame these women for doing that? They have to survive, Social security is not existent in Ukraine or if there is one then it is not good enough and they will go hungry.

It is a well known fact that many women are exported abroad to work as prostitutes by the so called Ukrainian Mafia, and of course there are plenty illegal Ukrainian women in USA plying this job. If you are so enthralled with Ukrainian women why don’t you go there and have sex with them? It must be easy to find them.

Before I go any further I would like to remind you that there are many men around this board who visited Ukraine, met decent and attractive women, married them and they are happy. I expect you don’t know the difference between yourself and these men.

These men went looking for a good woman who would become a good wife too and did not go to Ukraine to find women for sex. That is the difference.

UKRAINIAN WOMEN ARE NO DIFFERENT FROM WESTERN LADIES.

Ukrainian women are not special.

In my view Ukrainian women are not that different or any special from their counterparts in the west. It is only the financial conditions, in which they live that make them look different. Once these conditions are equalised then you will not notice a great difference in their behaviour as very quickly adapt to the new realities.

Naturally you would expect, Ukrainian women, when they meet somebody from the west, who they find attractive, a good prospect in their view, they will progress the relationship and sex will be part of it. Some of course, will use sex to achieve their goal, of escaping the harsh financial conditions they live under.

Now that is not unusual or different from what is going on in the west. Ukrainian women are assertive with their bodies and their sexuality and they don’t hesitate to take that step, like their counter parts in the west. Many single men, from the west, view that as an easy way to have sex, during their holiday in Ukraine and forget what is going on in their countries and the holiday resorts. They easily forget the one night stands and the holiday romances over here and some of them think that Ukrainian women are Gold Diggers, because of their more affluent financial status. They also think that Ukrainian women are more submissive and easy to manipulate to have sex with them. In many cases that is true and they take advantage of women’s desire for a better life.

I read somewhere that doctors in the Eastern European countries advise women to have regular sex because is good for their health. They are also told that is not necessary to be in love to have sex. Many women I have met from these countries, have told me that is true but that is not different from what is happening over here.

No, Ukrainian women are no different from other women. Their upbringing and current financial conditions make them more conservative in their approach and the family concept is stronger with them now, but it was the same over here too, few years ago. The feministic movement and financial independence has given western women more self confidence and equality in life. The financial independence and self confidence in women over here has some undesirable effects in their behaviour and men don’t like it. That is why we have so many single parent families and their numbers have exploded dramatically the past few years.

I don’t think that Ukrainian women are or will be any different when they achieve the same status. I noticed that the younger generation of Ukrainian women has all the hallmark’s of their western counterparts.

They want the good things in life, like everybody else in the west, and they will use all means available to them to get what they want.


part 2 to follow



 

[Joe Kerr]

"What I am curious is: Why American men have to go so far to find prostitutes?"

"Don’t you have any attractive ones over there? I expect you do but must be very expensive."

Sounds like a future ad campaign by the UK Tourist Board.  "Our strumpets are better than your crack whores". 

"Don’t tell me that there are no Dating agencies in USA, because we know there are many 1000’s, to find a nice attractive woman to make family and have children?"

Please do tell us about your experiences dating American women and all of those wonderful dating agencies. 

"It is a well known fact that many women are exported abroad to work as prostitutes by the so called Ukrainian Mafia, and of course there are plenty illegal Ukrainian women in USA plying this job. If you are so enthralled with Ukrainian women why don’t you go there and have sex with them? It must be easy to find them."

Really?  Apparently, there's Ukrainian prostitute behind everyone waving Mexican flags.  Please provide some statistics on that one, Wiz. 

"However, the anticipated World Cup sex-trade boom has also raised fears of an increase in forced prostitution with an estimated 40,000 women from poorer Eastern European countries expected to be heading to Germany, some against their will. Already, the European Union estimates more than 100,000 women in Europe each year are forced into prostitution."

I suppose we'll see a lot of Yanks turned into football fans after all. 

http://www.canada.com/topics/travel/story.html?id=b2c5abac-4a6f-45b0-a759-156e40f7a42b&k=75617

[BillyB]

Already, the European Union estimates more than 100,000 women in Europe each year are forced into prostitution."

I read an article that it's 200,000 to Europe willingly and unwillingly. My German friend said that he know places where he can walk blocks and blocks for the eye can see with women from all over the world sitting in the widows of buildings availiable for rent. Maybe that's why Germany has the lowest birth rate in the World. Rent a woman and abortion is popular. Too many "self confident" women wanting to prove they don't need a man. Those women have been fed BS by the feminist movement. Many a Western woman look for a career while passing up their main child bearing years. Everyone's fed up with the opposite sex. Family values go down the toilet. I'm surrounded by lunatics in this cruel world! But I know who I am and what I want from a woman and I stay focus to find what I'm looking for and of course she needs to be happy with me.  I can't save the world if I can't save myself first. Find someone who has their life in order. BTW, make sure your life is in order too. Yeah, some people want an upgrade using their wallet to achieve desired results. But others have enough substance and confidence in themself to win a woman's heart over.

Recently a woman and her husband told me they heard that all foreign women that marry American men aren't trustworthy. I said "Let me guess, you're educated by television?". Then I asked why they assume they are more trustworthy based on them being born in America. Then I told them most all people want a better life and you should question the sanity of the people who don't. For the people that want a better life you need to question is a person's method of achieving a better life. Some people want a free ride and some will work for it. Anyway that couple who questioned foreign women's trustworthiness has a son who spent half his adult life in prison and the son's girlfriend's on dope and puts out to men with money. Everyone needs to be judge individually.

About the sex being healthy for people. I won't dispute that but I will say what those Russian doctors don't and that the life expectancy of people who have sex goes down with as the number of different partners go up. Think about that one. And men in healthy marriages have more sex than bachelors.

[wiz]

Joe

The aim of my post above was not to belittle Americans but to set the parameters for my next post:

FINDING AN HONEST WOMAN IN THE FSU COUNTRIES.


I have dated a couple of American women, in the past, but not used an Agency. Have you forgot the art of meeting and courting women? I haven’t and don’t need an agency for introductions!

Please make a search in Google to find out many stories of Ukrainian women brought in America for prostitution. Of course USA is not the only destination of this abhorrent trade!

According to the Greek newspapers during the Olympic games of 2004, there where around 100,000 prostitutes working in Athens, mainly imported from the FSU countries. Anyway prostitutes is not my main subject here. Finding an HONEST woman in FSU countries is:

Billy

Totally agree with you about the feministic movement and that family values went down the toilet!

Totally agree also with your EXCELLENT statement!

“But I know who I am and what I want from a woman and I stay focus to find what I'm looking for and of course she needs to be happy with me.  I can't save the world if I can't save myself first. Find someone who has their life in order. BTW, make sure your life is in order too.

Yeah, some people want an upgrade using their wallet to achieve desired results.

But others have enough substance and confidence in themselves to win a woman's heart over. “

[Jumper]

wiz , sound advice.

but if you'd like to not belittle Americans, a point to not be so specific about nationality might help.
You have good sound GENERAL advice,, should be easy enough to word it that way   otherwise it does come off a bit strange, and you'll lose your *dear john* audience because of the perceived noise.




From just a "RW boards " stand point, and i've been around and moderated some for years,
no nationality has a monopoly on being naive,making mistakes with women, or falling for a pretty face.The nationalities looking for a woman in the FSU are pretty diverse? and many post here from around the world.
  I have no idea why, but to  be honest  the worst cases of cluelessness in dealing with women , and the most common relating unreal tales of woe, are the Brits ( at least on the RWboards, perhaps because they like to share thier misery more often , i'm not sure )


So an Englishman saying "I dont understand why you Americans"   
is almost a laughing matter ,  if you are saying it in regard to FSU women and MOB.

To answer one of your questions ,  Yes! there are plenty of great American women.Just like every other country the ratio of men to women is about 50/50  

[wiz]

AJ

Thanks for the advice and must admit, looking back now I agree that I did not frase it corectly.

I have a Brittish Passport and nationality, lived in the UK for over 33 years but originally I was born in Greece!

No I have not been around this board for a long time, so forgive me of some ignorance. Any comments I make is from my own personal experience and I do NOT try to cover the Britts for their failures or attitutes.

Sorry to say but American women do nothing for me and I had a couple of holiday romances!� 

Ukrainian women are more natural and fresh then British and American women!� 

[Jumper]

no worries wiz,

you have  good  advice to present ,
and i just dint want it to get lost because of presentation.
It's just so easy to take posted stuff in a light that it wasnt intended,  as it just cant convey , tone, etc..

[Muj]

Whiz,
I find your depiction mostly partial truths and condescension. Also you seem to have the particular European attitude toward Americans of "those yanks invading my territory and stealing my girls or turf or whatever."  Some British seem especially prone to this attitude and show the most critical behaviour towards Americans in Europe .  Mostly I found that many Ukrainians prefer Americans for many reasons.  The reasons include:
Fewer Americans are on sex trips and most honestly looking for a lifetime mate.
Western European men tend to view CIS women as easy targets for holiday sex and possible mistresses, the CIS women are aware of the attitude.
 Also saw many drunk W.Eur. men, Brits, during the New Year rudely and loudly pursuing women in Ukraine for companionship.
CIS women are fully accepted in America but many times considered lesser in Western European countries (My observation of comments by CIS women.)

Wiz, I agree with you on the part of the guys on sex trips. Most Americans guys pursuing sex for pay go to Mexico or Vegas. The, mostly serious Americans travel abroad to meet a woman. Most of the guys on sex trips are wealthy and tired of Mexico/Vegas.
Secondly, I partially agree on your comment on the agencies advertising the CIS women. The guys show up on first dates and socials dressed poorly and with nothing interesting to say. Many of the guys meet no one special as a result of poor preparation.  Some girls are paid, the interpretors.  These guys are pursuing the women that they know are paid to be there.  Also, most have no idea how much time this process requires.
The agencies are businesses. Every guy knows that all the girls don't run to him because he wears the brand cologne or drives the hot car.  These guys need to research before they travel and spend money.  An agency provides a good service if you apply resources correctly and understand the resources as much as possible.  Most Americans have never traveled to a CIS country and find the agency services vital for the first trip.

Many of the youngs girls are enticed by the foreign man like young women anywhere. These girls are seeking an adventure, many want to learn more of the foreign country.  The men looking a wife become detoured and start endlessly chasing the party girls.  Result is they get a few but go home meeting no serious women. The same men also become cynical and think all the women are looking for an expensive dinner and maybe sex in return.

If the American guy on a sex trip meets a party girl, who cares?   They both had their fun. This happens anywhere.  I can only reason your cynical attitudes stems from the competition from the Americans on your turf.

Wiz, many American men are successful at meeting their wife in the CIS.  However, as many know, most people in forums talk of their difficulties.  Go to Visa Journey to read of more successes.

Plenty of old unattractive Western Europeans visiting CIS countries to chase and/or marry as well.  Probably larger in ratio.

I agree with you, men and women everywhere have the same basic needs.  Culture is small in comparison to the basic needs but not taken for granted.

The feminist movement in America is somewhat distorted as compared to anywhere in Europe and the remainder of the world.  Many unhappy over 35 single women here.  Many happy lifetime marriagese as well.

[PeeWee]

I read an article that it's 200,000 to Europe willingly and unwillingly. My German friend said that he know places where he can walk blocks and blocks for the eye can see with women from all over the world sitting in the widows of buildings availiable for rent. Maybe that's why Germany has the lowest birth rate in the World. Rent a woman and abortion is popular. Too many "self confident" women wanting to prove they don't need a man. Those women have been fed BS by the feminist movement. Many a Western woman look for a career while passing up their main child bearing years. Everyone's fed up with the opposite sex. Family values go down the toilet. I'm surrounded by lunatics in this cruel world! But I know who I am and what I want from a woman and I stay focus to find what I'm looking for and of course she needs to be happy with me.�  I can't save the world if I can't save myself first. Find someone who has their life in order. BTW, make sure your life is in order too. Yeah, some people want an upgrade using their wallet to achieve desired results. But others have enough substance and confidence in themself to win a woman's heart over.

Recently a woman and her husband told me they heard that all foreign women that marry American men aren't trustworthy. I said "Let me guess, you're educated by television?". Then I asked why they assume they are more trustworthy based on them being born in America. Then I told them most all people want a better life and you should question the sanity of the people who don't. For the people that want a better life you need to question is a person's method of achieving a better life. Some people want a free ride and some will work for it. Anyway that couple who questioned foreign women's trustworthiness has a son who spent half his adult life in prison and the son's girlfriend's on dope and puts out to men with money. Everyone needs to be judge individually.

About the sex being healthy for people. I won't dispute that but I will say what those Russian doctors don't and that the life expectancy of people who have sex goes down with as the number of different partners go up. Think about that one. And men in healthy marriages have more sex than bachelors.

The city where the women sit in the windows waiting for sex is Amsterdam. That might be what your German friend was referring to. Casa Rosso is one of the more famous clubs in that area. I don't know it...I just heard (cough) about it from someone. Never been there, done that...that is for sure. I just heard about it. Honest. Hell, the entire red light district of Amsterdam is a tourist attraction. Buses from Gray Line Tours bring bus loads of Maimi blue hairs there just for a look see. At least that is what I am told, anyway.

Peewee

[wiz]

Engaged

It seems to me that you have not read my comments above that I was not born in the UK nor that support the British behavior and attitudes. Then you go and accuse me of condescending when making comments regarding American behavior because they invade my turf! Then you continue in your own words describing what I have said in my post and agree with it!

I will take your comments as a language misunderstanding and leave it to that, because basically we are talking the same thing!

Americans are welcome to invade my turf, any time, because there is a surplus of 20% of more women in the FSU countries and of course I know that a lot of British going there for sex. Kyiv and Odessa are the main destinations. I run a travel company organizing holidays to Ukraine and Greece and I can recognize the lager louds and sex tourist straight away, as also I can recognize the serious person looking for a prospective wife.

You may find my comments cynical but I have to be because of what I have encountered over there and I can assure you that I have no problem in competing with any American, of my age, looking for a partner in Ukraine. I have certain parameters for what type of woman I am looking for and I will not allow anybody to massage my ego because I am not looking for an Arm candy but for a wife material. I am not a fool to go and marry anybody after 2-3 times of meeting her like many older men do and then find themselves alone again, after the women acquired their passport! I can give you plenty of examples over here as you may have plenty over there too!

If you read my post FINDING AN HONEST WOMAN IN UKRAINE hopefully there you will understand my attitude in the subject.

Finally, in my view, the culture differences are top of list and in any relationship cause problems if not understood. Back in 1970, when I was still living in Greece I married my ex-English wife, our marriage lasted 12 years, so I know well about it. After my divorce I had a few long term relationships with English and other Nationalities women. Now in the sunset of my life I have to be very careful with whom I get married, because it has to last until I die!

Peewee

The towns the German friend is refering is in the frontier between Germany and the Czech republic. I have been to Amsterdam and visited the red district area, which as you say is a tourist attraction. No I did not visit any of the girls on the windows, as my girlfriend at the time was with me, but it is very interesing place to visit!

[Shadow]

Apart from Amsterdam there are other places.

Near the border with Germany there are many many buildings with the sign 'Club'. I never understood why there are so many people joining clubs there. Must be like motor club, bike club, chess club, card club. Or may be not.

[PeeWee]

There is a huge difference between the border towns of the Czech Republic and Amsterdam. I will give you but one example of a Czech borader town club. Club Hawaii has its share of prostitutes to be sure. Where do these ladies come from? Czech Replublic? Hardly. Ukraine. Women sold to Czech club owners by Red Mafia. Over 1 million Ukraine women are now servicing men in Czech Republic in the hundreds of Czech sex clubs such as Club Hawaii. Sex slavery is what it is called an I have no idea why any sane man would even think to support that industry. Our Hilliary Clinton, and it may be the only remarkable thing I think she has done, has addressed the problem...not only in the US but on a worldwide scale as well. I hope that she does not lose her focus on that.

Amsterdam is different. Those women have free choice. Not so for those unfortunate Ukraine women who service up to 10 men a day, 7 days a week, in Czech brothels, like Club Hawaii. Slaves. Let it sink in. It is not a good think by any stretch of the imagination.

Peewee

[BC]

PeeWee,

Have you been to Club Hawaii and talked to the girls?

We can talk all day about things we have little or no experience with - and get absolutely no where.

Most of the girls get on the bus of there own free will and were not snatched off the street. That's not to say some do not get off bad spots with bad people.

[wiz]

Peewee

I have been to Prague twice but not for visiting the clubs. Not my cup of tea!
I just read about it elsewhere.

I had my 60 birthday party there on Jan 2005 and I also visited my Ukrainian programmer, so we talked business.

As BC said we can talk about this trade for days with no results.

[PeeWee]

PeeWee,

Have you been to Club Hawaii and talked to the girls?

We can talk all day about things we have little or no experience with - and get absolutely no where.

Most of the girls get on the bus of there own free will and were not snatched off the street. That's not to say some do not get off bad spots with bad people.

BC, I wrote a book that will soon be published about the subject of Sex Slavery. Suffice to say, i have done my research. This is one subject that I know much about. In addition, there was a one hour documentary presented on the Discovery Channel some years ago about it. The information presented in that airing agreed with my research. If you have ever written and published a book you full well know that whatever information you record had better be accrate or else you will suffer at the hands of the many critics. Trust me, I know precisely about what I speak when it comes to the subject of sex slavery in Eastern Europe.

Peewee

Peewee

[PeeWee]

Peewee

I have been to Prague twice but not for visiting the clubs. Not my cup of tea!
I just read about it elsewhere.

I had my 60 birthday party there on Jan 2005 and I also visited my Ukrainian programmer, so we talked business.

As BC said we can talk about this trade for days with no results.

Wiz, the talk was not expected to lead to results. A comment was made and a response was given. We move on with the thread at hand. Perhaps next time I will refrain from adding something that someone might find interesting, as a side note, and stay with the straight and narrow task at hand? Sound boring to me. But what do I know of communication?

Peewee

[Muj]

Engaged

It seems to me that you have not read my comments above that I was not born in the UK nor that support the British behavior and attitudes. Then you go and accuse me of condescending when making comments regarding American behavior because they invade my turf! Then you continue in your own words describing what I have said in my post and agree with it!

Whiz,
Your attitude shows condescending comments. ¦nbsp;I never said I disagree with all you say, mainly your attitude towards Americans. ¦nbsp;Some of your points are valid as I say. ¦nbsp;Yes, I know you are Greek born, your attitudes in your first post are similar to some British of Americans. ¦nbsp;Not surprising as you are British by nationality.
Your post incriminates most Americans as sex tourists when the opposite is true and you seem to focus on the Americans traveling far. ¦nbsp;All men searching for a descent wife find the sex tourists of any nationality distasteful. ¦nbsp;Why even comment? ¦nbsp;I interpreted your recriminations as an attitiude of competition. ¦nbsp;However, I see that you are an agency owner with solutions for some of these guys. ¦nbsp;Overall your post has good points and subsequently you tone down your comments. ¦nbsp;
Good luck in your search.

[wiz]

Peewee

Write me down for a copy of your book. I would love to read it!

I have watched several documentaries here in the UK and it would be interesting to read the result of your research!

Engaged

I see you are angry with me because you misspelled my name…. LOL

I am not siding with the Brits and my Nationality is a flag of convenience, which I had to take when I arrived here, otherwise I could not have stayed, as UK was not part of the EU then!
My son and my grandchildren, live in LA, have American Passports but deep down they are Greeks.

My attitude to the British and American men who are part of the sex trade is the same. Sorry that I only mentioned Americans but I did corrected that later after J A’s advice!

My company is a Tour Operation and organises package holidays. We have no connection with any Dating or Marriage agency there, because sex trade in UK is illegal. It is very easy to recognise the single men who go in search of sex and a woman in Ukraine! Of course I take advantage of my business interests and connections to travel often to Ukraine and combine business and personal interests.

Ok I will try and adjust to the audience.

PS: Business over for today. Time to go out and meet my Russian woman for Dinner, See you later or tommorrow.

[Joe Kerr]

"Please make a search in Google to find out many stories of Ukrainian women brought in America for prostitution. Of course USA is not the only destination of this abhorrent trade!"

Wiz, I'm not sure if some of us sidetracked you from the original point of your post. 

I took your advice and couldn't find any large numbers of Ukrainian hookers in the U.S. based on a Google search. 

This reminds me of another British subject (sorry) who insisted there were few illegal immigrants from Mexico in America.  He'd never been to the U.S. before but considered himself an expert on all things American.

When I first saw your avatar I was going to make a joke about Aristotle Onassis. 

What happened to Dear John continued?     

[wiz]

Joe

Sorry for not responding quicker but please understand I am a little busy at the moment.

When I have a minute will try and get you the links, but not now. Natassa has to be entertained! Out of my head, I remember the story of the travel agency in Kyiv sending women for slavery & prostitution, using Mexico and getting through San Diego in CA.

No I am not an expert of America but I have visited many places there. Was in L.A last Christmas and New Year and will be back next Year again.

Wish I was Aristotelis Onassis and had 1/1000 of his money….LOL

Dear John was continued under the title. FINDING AN HONEST WOMEN IN UKRAINE.

Will continue posting under the dear John theme, when I will start reporting back of what happened with my meetings with women. I maybe create a Blog in that section to write about my search results there. Thinking about it that’s a good idea to post there some of my past encounters with FSU women. Keep an eye.

PS: I have a large belly too.! I am not eating much and not drinking at all, but no exersise so I am trying to catch up with you...HA HA HA

[BC]

Wiz..

what? .. no ouzo?.. I'm disappointed.

 

[Joe Kerr]

It sounds like you have your hands full in the most pleasant way.

I dont' believe NYC and LA reflect how most of America really is anymore than say Moscow Kiev or London is like the rest of their countries. 

"PS: I have a large belly too.! I am not eating much and not drinking at all, but no exersise so I am trying to catch up with you...HA HA HA"

My avatar is just a joke.  It's not me but I think it is funny for this forum since people think guys like him are the typical guys chasing women in the FSU.  Cut back on the gyros, Wiz, if you want to lose weight.

[wiz]

BC

No ouzo...is lethal and had enough at my student days:  ......lol

Sorry Joe

Only joking......din't know that wasn't your photo.

I better take my ugly mag out then....LOL

Been to Florida everywhere 5 times and of course NY and LA. I didn't say that Americans are the same everywhere.....too large and 300 mil people but yesterday I was reading an article about obesity and you are well up in % compare to UK.

Where can I find some Gyro in here?..... too far to travel 100 + miles to north London....!
I need to start exersising..... that is all.

[Muj]

Peewee

Write me down for a copy of your book. I would love to read it!

I have watched several documentaries here in the UK and it would be interesting to read the result of your research!

Engaged

I see you are angry with me because you misspelled my name…. LOL

I am not siding with the Brits and my Nationality is a flag of convenience, which I had to take when I arrived here, otherwise I could not have stayed, as UK was not part of the EU then!
My son and my grandchildren, live in LA, have American Passports but deep down they are Greeks.

My attitude to the British and American men who are part of the sex trade is the same. Sorry that I only mentioned Americans but I did corrected that later after J A’s advice!

My company is a Tour Operation and organises package holidays. We have no connection with any Dating or Marriage agency there, because sex trade in UK is illegal. It is very easy to recognise the single men who go in search of sex and a woman in Ukraine! Of course I take advantage of my business interests and connections to travel often to Ukraine and combine business and personal interests.

Ok I will try and adjust to the audience.

PS: Business over for today. Time to go out and meet my Russian woman for Dinner, See you later or tommorrow.

Wiz,

Not a spelling bee here, just an informal exhange of ideas.
U imply all dating agencies in the Ukraine are invovled in the sex trade?
And u would have connections with the dating agencies if the sex trafficking were leagal in the UK? ???

[wiz]

Wiz,

Not a spelling bee here, just an informal exhange of ideas.
U imply all dating agencies in the Ukraine are invovled in the sex trade?
And u would have connections with the dating agencies if the sex trafficking were leagal in the UK? ???

Engaged

God blimey! Why you try to give different meaning to what I have said in my post?

Let me make it clear:

My view of the Sex trade is the single or married men traveling to places like Thailand, Ukraine, Russia etc, under the pretence of looking to find a wife and their only purpose is using women for sex only!

Dating agencies, by the nature of their business, are involved, Intentionally or unintentionally and facilitate with their activities the sex trade. You may say the same applies for the travel companies but there is a huge difference as they are not involved in the introduction of women. They only make travel arrangements for transportation and accommodation, which is a legitimate business.

No I would not have anything to do with Dating agencies, legitimate or not. I am not moralizing but I don’t want to be part of that trade, which has uncomfortable connotations. My comments were directed only to those who blatantly use these agencies for finding women for sex. I do not ask my clients what is the purpose of their trips as it is none of my business and always have declined to answer and claimed ignorance any questions with reference to this matter.