Hi from Canada

[TBear]

Hi, I'm new here. Like many here I am looking for a wife. I've been looking seriously for several months, and have actually made contact with a few really nice FSU women via fiance.com (maybe not the best site...). And I'm planning on taking a trip this summer depending on how things progress by then.

At any rate, I hope to learn a lot from everyone

I do have a couple questions, probably super basic n00b things. But...

1. How normal is it to get a woman asking you to come visit nearly immediately? Within a few messages? And am I right in thinking its a bit /odd/ when someone does that AND tries to push rather hard for it? (and pushes her marriage agency?)

2. Same goes for (excessive?) uses of "Dear" and "kiss" in messages? It rubs me the wrong way, but it could just be my lack of experience with FSU women.

[Dewed]

Welcome aboard !

You may want to type "fiance.com" into the search box in the upper right and select "Entire Forum"    wait a sec (its a big/busy site)  and then review some of the results, I like to right click and open in new tab, so I don't have to re-do the search.

While I have no experience with that site, if it is raising red flags or tingling your spidey senses, I suggest you listen to your gut.

[Dewed]

PS, if you dont see a search box in the upper right, click the white "V"  and it will magically appear

[TBear]

Welcome aboard !

You may want to type "fiance.com" into the search box in the upper right and select "Entire Forum"    wait a sec (its a big/busy site)  and then review some of the results, I like to right click and open in new tab, so I don't have to re-do the search.

While I have no experience with that site, if it is raising red flags or tingling your spidey senses, I suggest you listen to your gut.

Thanks Dewed!

I actually managed not to go into it blind, I heard so many tales of scamming that I did a little bit of research on fiance.com beforehand, and it didn't have the worst reputation. I also did a search for it here earlier today while I was lurking. The results seem to jive with what I have already learned, that fiance.com isn't itself a scam, but there are going to be scammers or "peddlers" on the site.

[Faux Pas]

Welcome to RWD TBear! 

nice FSU women via fiance.com (maybe not the best site...).

You probably answered your following questions there. If you feel/think it hokey, there is a reason for it. It likely is. I'm not familiar with that site as I've been out of the loop for several years. Is it a pay by the letter club?

I do have a couple questions, probably super basic n00b things. But...

1. How normal is it to get a woman asking you to come visit nearly immediately? Within a few messages? And am I right in thinking its a bit /odd/ when someone does that AND tries to push rather hard for it? (and pushes her marriage agency?)

Very normal for an insincere woman. A sincere woman would take the time to learn about you, as you would her. The fact that she is across ocean doesn't allow you to skip this vital step in a relationship. It's just different

2. Same goes for (excessive?) uses of "Dear" and "kiss" in messages? It rubs me the wrong way, but it could just be my lack of experience with FSU women.

Excessive use, yeah more hokey moves of someone likely buttering you for ease in your pocket. A guess on my part but, an educated one.

 

[BillyB]

1. How normal is it to get a woman asking you to come visit nearly immediately? Within a few messages? And am I right in thinking its a bit /odd/ when someone does that AND tries to push rather hard for it? (and pushes her marriage agency?)

2. Same goes for (excessive?) uses of "Dear" and "kiss" in messages? It rubs me the wrong way, but it could just be my lack of experience with FSU women.

Welcome to the forum TBear. Insincere women tend to be more aggressive than sincere women when luring men to come visit. They do catch more men. Don't be one of those guys.


There is a sticky thread in the Starting out section of recommended sites. It's best to avoid most pay per letter sites because you'll sometimes be trading love letters with Vladimir, the employee of the month.

[TBear]

Welcome to RWD TBear! 
You probably answered your following questions there. If you feel/think it hokey, there is a reason for it. It likely is. I'm not familiar with that site as I've been out of the loop for several years. Is it a pay by the letter club?

If you subscribe to VIP or the other non free level, no. You get unlimited mails. But video/telephone chat is still rather expensive.

Very normal for an insincere woman. A sincere woman would take the time to learn about you, as you would her. The fact that she is across ocean doesn't allow you to skip this vital step in a relationship. It's just different

Excessive use, yeah more hokey moves of someone likely buttering you for ease in your pocket. A guess on my part but, an educated one.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

I guess what I'm wondering is how many sincere women would open with something like "Hi My Dear So-and-So" or "Hello darling", and end with "kisses!". When the contents of the messages are more or less normal it doesn't really SCREAM fake to me, but it does still make me raise an eyebrow.

Welcome to the forum TBear. Insincere women tend to be more aggressive than sincere women when luring men to come visit. They do catch more men. Don't be one of those guys.


There is a sticky thread in the Starting out section of recommended sites. It's best to avoid most pay per letter sites because you'll sometimes be trading love letters with Vladimir, the employee of the month.

Haha. Yes. I've already read through it and am planning on signing up to one or more of the recommended sites. I'll keep on fiance.com too for the time being.

[Faux Pas]

Look for the sticky Billy mentioned. It has a number of recommended sites from members on this forum. Most probably legit with sincere women. I generally recommend Elena's models. It's where I met my wife and along the way never one insincere woman that I could discern. Although, you can find them anywhere.

I caution you TBear based from your earlier remarks, although it brought you here and you've smelled one rat agency/site, don't let your paranoia guide you. Keep it in check and remember to find a sincere woman, you need to be a sincere man and that be your compass

Good Luck

[TBear]

Look for the sticky Billy mentioned. It has a number of recommended sites from members on this forum. Most probably legit with sincere women. I generally recommend Elena's models. It's where I met my wife and along the way never one insincere woman that I could discern. Although, you can find them anywhere.

I caution you TBear based from your earlier remarks, although it brought you here and you've smelled one rat agency/site, don't let your paranoia guide you. Keep it in check and remember to find a sincere woman, you need to be a sincere man and that be your compass

Good Luck

Thanks. I appreciate the tips

[Anotherkiwi]

Hi, I'm new here. Like many here I am looking for a wife. I've been looking seriously for several months, and have actually made contact with a few really nice FSU women via fiance.com (maybe not the best site...). And I'm planning on taking a trip this summer depending on how things progress by then.

At any rate, I hope to learn a lot from everyone

I do have a couple questions, probably super basic n00b things. But...

1. How normal is it to get a woman asking you to come visit nearly immediately? Within a few messages? And am I right in thinking its a bit /odd/ when someone does that AND tries to push rather hard for it? (and pushes her marriage agency?)

2. Same goes for (excessive?) uses of "Dear" and "kiss" in messages? It rubs me the wrong way, but it could just be my lack of experience with FSU women.

  TBear!

Firstly - fiancé.com.  Many thousands of profiles, most of which actually have pretty decent information - certainly enough to make fairly quick judgements as to whether or not it's worth pursuing the lady in question.  Definitely NOT a scam site, although there are bound to be individual scammers present (as with any similar site).  I corresponded with several women from that site during my search, and the woman I met on my second trip was one of them.  The relationship didn't work out, but it was no fault of the site - I'd happily use them again if someone's profile was interesting enough.

As for your two questions -

1.  The rule of thumb here is that women generally don't want to wait more than three months between first contact and first face-to-face meeting (and by that I don't mean Skype).  If anyone tried to push for a meeting sooner it is unlikely to be worth it unless the man in question already lives in Europe and is able to get to Kyiv or Moscow (or wherever) quite easily.  A lot of women on these sites are still quite ignorant about international travel and time differences, especially when it comes to my part of the world.  My preference, endorsed by some others on here, would be to get your travel arrangements all set up before you start writing - that way you can tell the women that you will be in Russia or Ukraine in June or July (or whenever).

2.  "Dear" seems to be misused mostly by those women whose English is not particularly good.  I would ignore it as an indicator of red/amber/green flags.  Same with "kisses" (often in conjunction with "hugs") - I think everyone I've had extended correspondence with used that right from the start.  If, however, their excessive use makes you feel uncomfortable, move on!

Good luck with whatever you decide.

[SANDRO43]

TBear, at the bottom of the page you'll find a list that includes "Anti-Scam Tools" and "Scammer Score Card", the latter a tool with questions to bear in mind when evaluating a FSUW's sincerity .

[die_cast]

Hello TBear,

1. How normal is it to get a woman asking you to come visit nearly immediately? Within a few messages?

It's normal for woman to wonder if you're actually going to visit a woman you like one day (theoretically, you know... they just want know you realize that sooner or later you will have to visit her). After few weeks of correspondence it's normal to wonder if you are planning to visit her one day in near future when it'll be possible for you (this year, for example).
If it's like "Dear John, I was happy to get a message from you. So are you going to visit me next week?" - nope, it's not normal.

2. Same goes for (excessive?) uses of "Dear" and "kiss" in messages? It rubs me the wrong way, but it could just be my lack of experience with FSU women.

Using "dear" is fine when it looks like this:
"Dear John,

bla-bla-bla

Have a nice day.
Alice"

But excessive using of "dear" and "kisses" has nothing to do with your lack of experience with FSUW. We don't use them with random men. Even more, most FSUW don't like if man writes in his first letters lots of "kisses", "baby", "sweety", etc.

[TBear]

TBear!

Thanks!

1.  The rule of thumb here is that women generally don't want to wait more than three months between first contact and first face-to-face meeting (and by that I don't mean Skype).  If anyone tried to push for a meeting sooner it is unlikely to be worth it unless the man in question already lives in Europe and is able to get to Kyiv or Moscow (or wherever) quite easily.  A lot of women on these sites are still quite ignorant about international travel and time differences, especially when it comes to my part of the world.  My preference, endorsed by some others on here, would be to get your travel arrangements all set up before you start writing - that way you can tell the women that you will be in Russia or Ukraine in June or July (or whenever).

Yeah, that does seem a better way to go about it.

2.  "Dear" seems to be misused mostly by those women whose English is not particularly good.  I would ignore it as an indicator of red/amber/green flags.  Same with "kisses" (often in conjunction with "hugs") - I think everyone I've had extended correspondence with used that right from the start.  If, however, their excessive use makes you feel uncomfortable, move on!

It just seemed odd. I was hoping I could attribute it to either a language or cultural barrier.

TBear, at the bottom of the page you'll find a list that includes "Anti-Scam Tools" and "Scammer Score Card", the latter a tool with questions to bear in mind when evaluating a FSUW's sincerity .

Thanks I did look at it earlier, but assumed it was mostly for the sites, rather than the individual. I'll have to look at it again.

Hello TBear,It's normal for woman to wonder if you're actually going to visit a woman you like one day (theoretically, you know... they just want know you realize that sooner or later you will have to visit her). After few weeks of correspondence it's normal to wonder if you are planning to visit her one day in near future when it'll be possible for you (this year, for example).
If it's like "Dear John, I was happy to get a message from you. So are you going to visit me next week?" - nope, it's not normal.

That is what I thought. After a few messages one or two are like "I don't like long communications, when will you come visit?".

Many have mentioned off hand that they think meeting is important, which is (imo) a pretty good way to suggest the same thing without being overbearing. At least if the guy isn't completely oblivious.

Using "dear" is fine when it looks like this:
"Dear John,

bla-bla-bla

Have a nice day.
Alice"

But excessive using of "dear" and "kisses" has nothing to do with your lack of experience with FSUW. We don't use them with random men. Even more, most FSUW don't like if man writes in his first letters lots of "kisses", "baby", "sweety", etc.

Heh, I hope I don't get a "Dear John" letter! It does seem a little insincere to me to immediately start calling some random guy on the internet "my dear" or "darling". I was just wondering if that was because I was maybe a little old fashioned. Looks like no.

I really appreciate the tips.

I can't tell you how much time I spent yesterday reading through a few long threads... and I still have many more interesting ones to go though!

One thing that has gotten me a little concerned is travel to Ukraine and Russia. Especially to Crimea. I'm hoping things settle further in the coming months, but who knows what will happen.

[SANDRO43]

Thanks I did look at it earlier, but assumed it was mostly for the sites, rather than the individual. I'll have to look at it again.

Maybe what you looked at was the "Agency Score Card" just below .

[TBear]

Maybe what you looked at was the "Agency Score Card" just below .

... Maybe ....

 

[Muzh]

Hey TBear and 
 
 

1. How normal is it to get a woman asking you to come visit nearly immediately? Within a few messages? And am I right in thinking its a bit /odd/ when someone does that AND tries to push rather hard for it? (and pushes her marriage agency?)

2. Same goes for (excessive?) uses of "Dear" and "kiss" in messages? It rubs me the wrong way, but it could just be my lack of experience with FSU women.

What does your common sense tells you? Too good to be true?

[TBear]

Hey TBear and 
 
 
What does your common sense tells you? Too good to be true?

In some cases, almost definitely. In others, it could just be second guessing.

[GQBlues]

...2. Same goes for (excessive?) uses of "Dear" and "kiss" in messages? It rubs me the wrong way, but it could just be my lack of experience with FSU women.

Good rules of thumb:

1. Do not abandon your wits and instinct. They are very rarely wrong.
2. Never ever chalk up strange/bad behavior to cultural differences.

[Muzh]

In some cases, almost definitely. In others, it could just be second guessing.

Okay.
 
Another rule of thumb.
 
If she would behave the same way with you if she lived in your neighborhood, then pursue it.

[Lily]

Good rules of thumb:

1. Do not abandon your wits and instinct. They are very rarely wrong.
2. Never ever chalk up strange/bad behavior to cultural differences.

As a RW, I agree with this.
 
TBear, I think that first of all you should make sure that you are not talking to a scammer. Here, I'd hardly be able to advise a lot. Read through the site, and listen to what the experienced guys from here say. Personally, I quickly learned how to tell a male scam on the Canadian lavalife site 

[TBear]

As a RW, I agree with this.
 
TBear, I think that first of all you should make sure that you are not talking to a scammer. Here, I'd hardly be able to advise a lot. Read through the site, and listen to what the experienced guys from here say. Personally, I quickly learned how to tell a male scam on the Canadian lavalife site 

Most scammers are quite easy to spot, I'll agree with you there. But occasionally one sneaks by, and man, when they do it is not fun.

I am trying to balance being careful with not being distant or picky. But I may just need to be more picky.

And wow, I'm about half way through that clusterfsck known as the "women with children" thread, and all I can say is wow.

[die_cast]

Heh, I hope I don't get a "Dear John" letter! It does seem a little insincere to me to immediately start calling some random guy on the internet "my dear" or "darling".

There is a difference between "Dear John" and "My dear John", isn't it?
Beginning a letter with "dear" is a polite way to start conversation, they actually teach us to write so in school, that means "respected", not "beloved". This is "Dear Mr Jones", not "My beloved John". 

[die_cast]

And wow, I'm about half way through that clusterfsck known as the "women with children" thread, and all I can say is wow.

I guess you already noticed that thread is not about "women with children". 

[TBear]

There is a difference between "Dear John" and "My dear John", isn't it?
Beginning a letter with "dear" is a polite way to start conversation, they actually teach us to write so in school, that means "respected", not "beloved". This is "Dear Mr Jones", not "My beloved John". 

Yes, there is a difference. A lot of letters starting with "Dear TBear" wouldn't even move the needle on my scamometer.

I guess you already noticed that thread is not about "women with children". 

Not even close to it! More like children with children.

[Daveman]

Heya TBear and a belated 

Most of what I would tell you has already been mentioned in the thread.  The bottom line in this is fairly simple:

If you wouldn't tolerate something from a woman you're dating locally, don't make excuses/rationalizations for whatever that is with FSU women.

You will run into some differences though.  Women are women, yes, (just like Bass and Walleye are both fish) but there are some subtle and not so subtle differences.   The "traditional" women label is agency hype.  The relationship roles are more gender defined and your FSU paramour will have certain expectations of you "as the man" but don't expect June Cleaver.

You'll encounter some superstitions and sometimes bizarre logic patterns (with some perhaps being to an extent that you may begin to wonder if she were actually from the most recent Body Snatcher Invasionary Force).  Yeah, sometimes you will find yourself staring blankly at her with the only intellectually sound analysis you can muster frozen as "What the heck was THAT?" or "No, I'm hallucinating... there's no way she just said that... well... damn.. she just said it again..."

Those are just part of the bonus fun involved.    She'll be staring at you with those blank looks as well sometimes.

Take your time.  Chances are that the first woman (or two) you get to know and THINK is "The One", uh, won't be -- which is why it's important to relax and allow relations to progress as naturally as possible.

Good luck!