A Sad Farwell to Russia

[fathertime]

Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

Is this your new little mantra?  So isn't it hypocritical of you to be whiney about Russia's role in this when clearly the USA has it's hands just as dirty?  It seems to be a perfect application for your little'phrase of the day'. We helped prompt this situation with our taxpayer funds.  Funds spent in such a way that the average taxpayer would have objected to if given a choice. 

[GQBlues]

Royal Dutch Shell Oil's deal with Ukraine

Like Chevron, please note the date the article was written and when this deal was made.

[jone]

LFU,

I tend to agree with you.  I would wish to have the truth too.  If I am wrong and quoted BBC and other sources that would have their stories wrong, then I most humbly apologize.

GQ's assertions are so black and white for what actually happened.  I am certain that, controlling the Rada, as was done on the day(s) these votes were taken, everyone thought that they had done the right thing.  Including, as you so adeptly pointed out, that Yanukovych resigned.

My gut tells me that they were trying to close the deal.  Herein lies the problem.  Yanukovych resigns.  Then later he comes back and says he didn't resign. 

As for GQ, he just tries to obfuscate. 

[jone]

Is this your new little mantra?  So isn't it hypocritical of you to be whiney about Russia's role in this when clearly the USA has it's hands just as dirty?  It seems to be a perfect application for your little'phrase of the day'. We helped prompt this situation with our taxpayer funds.  Funds spent in such a way that the average taxpayer would have objected to if given a choice.

Please site your sources for US involvement in Maidan, in the insurgency, for your ongoing drivel.  At least LFU is able to pull things up that show merit, rather than your constant whining about being right. 

[LiveFromUkraine]

LFU,

I tend to agree with you.  I would wish to have the truth too.  If I am wrong and quoted BBC and other sources that would have their stories wrong, then I most humbly apologize.

The only people who should apologize is the media for not doing their jobs properly.  Too bad we can't rely on what they post as facts. 


I don't trust Yanu, but unless there is a signed resignation... he didn't resign.  I could be wrong, though, since I don't recall reading much about it.  I would think there was some legal process for resignations as well.  Something that wouldn't allow someone to come back and say he didn't do it when he did.


It's a really messed up situation.  I do wonder what would have happened if they just waited and had elections or went through the lawful way of getting rid of Yanu.
   
I suspect it would have been much better for Ukraine.

[fathertime]

So now one of the pillars of your arguments has begun to crumble...that is nice to see.

Please site your sources for US involvement in Maidan, in the insurgency, for your ongoing drivel.  At least LFU is able to pull things up that show merit, rather than your constant whining about being right. 

 Haha! You want ME to provide links about US involvement in Ukraine?  That would be easy to do, but wait…just a couple days ago YOU were asked to provide evidence for a personal accusation you made about me regarding a Russian woman…when you were challenged  to provide evidence YOU DIDN’T…you scoured my prior posts and realized you effed up (again)..and quietly slithered off….a phrase comes to mind... "Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander"  Don't whine about additional resources out of me, until you provide or back off your earlier statement regarding something I didn't do.   
You have been incorrect about a lot of things, all the while attempting to maintain an ‘elevated’ sense of knowledge, which it has been proven you do not have.  I've given my opinion (which I don't guarantee) and to this point have been correct regarding the 'big invasion' you are just dying to see. 


Fathertime! 

[GQBlues]

...As for GQ, he just tries to obfuscate.

LOL. Like the silly rabbit, he just keeps on ticking...

Considering the *titling* of this thread, calling someone as trying to obfuscate is simply, shall I say, idiotic coming from you.

Dude, I'd post your drivels in just this thread alone to further illustrate your obvious lack of objective thinking, but I believe there's enough body parts here for anyone to digest it for themselves.

To quote the ever-lovable Mr. T:

"I pity the fool!"

[BillyB]

The ousting of the president is illegal and unconstitutional. Any and all actions thereafter, for all intent and purposes, is illegal. Period.

Cry me a river. Is there any revolution in history that didn't involve breaking laws or involve violence? There was even violence in a revolution led be Ghandi. How about America's revolution? How long you been crying over that one?


GQ, since you think you are the smartest in the room and got all the conspiracy theories all figured out, what is your solution pertaining to Ukraine? You seem to avoid that question a lot. Running your mouth about the world's problems is easy. Let's talk solution. I think you're leaning on bringing back Yanuconvict.

[lonedrake]

I do wonder what would have happened if they just waited and had elections or went through the lawful way of getting rid of Yanu.

 The reason he left was to stay alive. He did not have enough support to protect his life.

[LiveFromUkraine]

The reason he left was to stay alive. He did not have enough support to protect his life.

I wasn't referring to him.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Cry me a river. Is there any revolution in history that didn't involve breaking laws or involve violence? There was even violence in a revolution led be Ghandi. How about America's revolution? How long you been crying over that one?

Why do you call it a revolution? 

[BillyB]

I do wonder what would have happened if they just waited and had elections or went through the lawful way of getting rid of Yanu.
   

If the Ukrainian people waited for elections, Yanukovych would still be in power afterwards. A pro Russian president is always elected in Ukraine. Russia makes sure of that. Elections are rigged, just look at Crimea, and the people aren't stupid enough to believe the early elections offered to stop the protests will get rid of Yanukovych. The election after the Orange Revolution had UN monitors to make sure the election was fair. That is the only time a pro West president was elected.


People complain America got involve in Ukraine but how about Russia? It's hard for the bullies to expand their borders with America around so they go and influence elections. They shouldn't complain if America plays the same game. In Ukraine, America will not rig the election as did Russia. We will encourage UN monitors to watch the election. That's how America will get a pro West president elected in Ukraine, by allowing the majority of Ukrainian votes to heard. Some people think that's a bad thing, but then again, some people think Yanukovych was legitimately elected and the law should allow him to stay in power.

Why do you call it a revolution? 

I didn't name the thing, just calling it what others have called it. Has it's own Wiki article too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Ukrainian_revolution

[LiveFromUkraine]

If the Ukrainian people waited for elections, Yanukovych would still be in power afterwards. A pro Russian president is always elected in Ukraine. Russia makes sure of that. Elections are rigged, just look at Crimea, and the people aren't stupid enough to believe the early elections offered to stop the protests will get rid of Yanukovych. The election after the Orange Revolution had UN monitors to make sure the election was fair. That is the only time a pro West president was elected.

Billy, that is kind of whack logic.  You're basically saying that the people are afraid of a Pro Russian president being elected so they illegally ousted the current president who as far as I know was legally elected.

People complain America got involve in Ukraine but how about Russia? It's hard for the bullies to expand their borders with America around so they go and influence elections. They shouldn't complain if America plays the same game. In Ukraine, America will not rig the election as did Russia. We will encourage UN monitors to watch the election. That's how America will get a pro West president elected in Ukraine, by allowing the majority of Ukrainian votes to heard. Some people think that's a bad thing, but then again, some people think Yanukovych was legitimately elected and the law should allow him to stay in power.

Still crazy logic man.  It's ok for America to play games because Russia play games.  You are saying it's better for America to step in because they will allow legit elections.  You're forgetting they also helped an illegal "revolution" to take place. 


America or Russia isn't interested in Ukrainian democracy.  Otherwise they would have not interfered with that democracy.

[BillyB]

You're basically saying that the people are afraid of a Pro Russian president being elected so they illegally ousted the current president who as far as I know was legally elected.

The people aren't afraid of a pro Russian president, they just want their votes to count and to get rid of a corrupt leader who keeps getting re-elected over and over with Putin's help. Everybody knows Ukraine's elections are rigged, Yanukovych is corrupt to the core, and is Putin's puppet but you believe he's legally elected? You must think the majority of Ukrainian people are really stupid to keep re-electing that convict.

[LiveFromUkraine]

The people aren't afraid of a pro Russian president, they just want their votes to count and to get rid of a corrupt leader who keeps getting re-elected over and over with Putin's help. Everybody knows Ukraine's elections are rigged, Yanukovych is corrupt to the core, and is Putin's puppet but you believe he's legally elected? You must think the majority of Ukrainian people are really stupid to keep re-electing that convict.

You really think anyone who is elected won't be corrupt?  Like Tymoshenko?  It's more of a matter of who will do more for the people not so much if they are corrupt.


Next you will be telling me that our system isn't rigged.   That our votes matter.  You can vote for this guy or this guy.  Vote now!  haha  Funny stuff.

[BillyB]

You're forgetting they also helped an illegal "revolution" to take place. 

France armed America with their illegal revolution. The Brits were pissed. Big deal.


You guys want to world to operate according to your morals, values and how you read the law. I see the events taking place as surviving and thriving. That's why I'm not so pissed off at Russia for looking after their interests and I'm not so pissed off with America for looking after it's interests. I would be very surprised if Russia stops at Crimea.

You really think anyone who is elected won't be corrupt?  Like Tymoshenko?

Voters aren't perfect. We got Obama. They gave her a chance, she failed. I don't think Ukrainians will make the same mistake. Some will still vote for her just as a few will vote for Yanukovych again.

[calmissile]

Haha! You want ME to provide links about US involvement in Ukraine?  That would be easy to do,
Fathertime!

I would like to see your evidence that the US bankrolled the Maiden activity in Ukraine as well!

You were not even there at the time.  You are not even married to or dating a FSU woman.  So whats your interest in being on a FSU forum and badmouthing the USA foreign aid to Ukraine?

Unfortunately, the forum wont accept Excel files, but if you want to educate yourself to the types of aid we have provided to Ukraine over the past 10 years, you can follow this link:

http://gbk.eads.usaidallnet.gov/query/do?_program=/eads/gbk/tablesByCountry&cocode=4UKR

You really think our lame, weak President and Secretary of State would bankroll a revolution when the best they can do afterwards is send MRE's (food) and petty sanctions?

[calmissile]

You really think anyone who is elected won't be corrupt?  Like Tymoshenko?  It's more of a matter of who will do more for the people not so much if they are corrupt.


Next you will be telling me that our system isn't rigged.   That our votes matter.  You can vote for this guy or this guy.  Vote now!  haha  Funny stuff.

According to your profile....


Posts:
    1429 (0.600 per day)
Age:
    N/A

Spouse's Country:
    Russia
Status:
    Looking 1-2 years
Trips:
    None (yet)

Your spouse is Russian, you have been looking for 1-2 years and apparently can't  find a mate, and you have made no trips yet!!!!

Yet your an expert on Ukraine???

[LiveFromUkraine]

According to your profile....


Posts:
    1429 (0.600 per day)
Age:
    N/A

Spouse's Country:
    Russia
Status:
    Looking 1-2 years
Trips:
    None (yet)

Your spouse is Russian, you have been looking for 1-2 years and apparently can't  find a mate, and you have made no trips yet!!!!

Yet your an expert on Ukraine???

I used to live there besides being married to one that spoke English.  No, I don't see myself as an expert.  Nice try sunshine.

[fathertime]

I would like to see your evidence that the US bankrolled the Maiden activity in Ukraine as well!

You were not even there at the time.  You are not even married to or dating a FSU woman.  So whats your interest in being on a FSU forum and badmouthing the USA foreign aid to Ukraine?

Unfortunately, the forum wont accept Excel files, but if you want to educate yourself to the types of aid we have provided to Ukraine over the past 10 years, you can follow this link:

http://gbk.eads.usaidallnet.gov/query/do?_program=/eads/gbk/tablesByCountry&cocode=4UKR

You really think our lame, weak President and Secretary of State would bankroll a revolution when the best they can do afterwards is send MRE's (food) and petty sanctions?

Hey Calmissle
 
1.        If you read the post I made you will see that I didn’t say the USA bankrolled Maiden….JONE (the guy who makes things up and runs away after) said that is what I said.  I said something different. 
2.       You are already married to a FSU woman. Why are you interested in this forum?  I’m here just like you are here.  Is it a requirement that I’m married to a FSU woman to post opinions about political issues that affect us ALL?
3.       I am generally anti-foreign aid to most foreign countries, as are the majority of the American people.  It is nothing necessarily against individual countries, but I want tax dollars spent on American’s in America. Our 'help' is being seen as interference by more and more countries, and I feel will be harmful to us in the longer run. 
4.       Although I don’t agree with Obama on certain issues, there isn't much he can/should do when foreign countries go through these sort of things.
Of course these are my opinions and up for respectful debate, which certain members have a hard time with. 


Fathertime!

[LiveFromUkraine]

France armed America with their illegal revolution. The Brits were pissed. Big deal.


You guys want to world to operate according to your morals, values and how you read the law. I see the events taking place as surviving and thriving. That's why I'm not so pissed off at Russia for looking after their interests and I'm not so pissed off with America for looking after it's interests. I would be very surprised if Russia stops at Crimea.

This wasn't comparable to the American revolution Billy.  I have been the one saying America is as much to blame for this mess as Russia which seems many do not want to hear. 

Voters aren't perfect. We got Obama. They gave her a chance, she failed. I don't think Ukrainians will make the same mistake. Some will still vote for her just as a few will vote for Yanukovych again.

You missed my point.  They vote based on who will be selected to run.  Corrupt or corrupt, vote now.   Our system isn't much better and we can't seem to fix it so why would anyone think Ukraine will be able too.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Hey Calmissle
 
1.        If you read the post I made you will see that I didn’t say the USA bankrolled Maiden….JONE (the guy who makes things up and runs away after) said that is what I said.  I said something different. 
2.       You are already married to a FSU woman. Why are you interested in this forum?  I’m here just like you are here.  Is it a requirement that I’m married to a FSU woman to post opinions about political issues that affect us ALL?
3.       I am generally anti-foreign aid to most foreign countries, as are the majority of the American people.  It is nothing necessarily against individual countries, but I want tax dollars spent on American’s in America. Our 'help' is being seen as interference by more and more countries, and I feel will be harmful to us in the longer run. 
4.       Although I don’t agree with Obama on certain issues, there isn't much he can/should do when foreign countries go through these sort of things.
Of course these are my opinions and up for respectful debate, which certain members have a hard time with. 


Fathertime!

Cal is just trying to shut down arguments in a lame like fashion.  Sort of like Muzh.  haha  As far as I know he needs to use a translator just to talk to his wife but thinks he is some kind of expert because he is married (briefly) now.

[GQBlues]

Cry me a river. Is there any revolution in history that didn't involve breaking laws or involve violence? There was even violence in a revolution led be Ghandi. How about America's revolution? How long you been crying over that one?....

There goes Yohan, the vegetarian again. If you don't know, ask. Cry you a river? Don't why don't I just pee  on you all over again?

...GQ, since you think you are the smartest in the room and got all the conspiracy theories all figured out, what is your solution pertaining to Ukraine? You seem to avoid that question a lot. Running your mouth about the world's problems is easy. Let's talk solution. I think you're leaning on bringing back Yanuconvict.

Smartest dude in the room? Conspiracy theories all figured out? Laying out the facts for feeble minded characters like you didn't have to take a smart dude at all. Not especially with 'you', LOL. This whole political crappola you've been engaged in that you call a 'discussion' have been nothing more than sheer exchanges of speculations, drama, fartfest and media-induced vomit without a single shred of factual evidence or conviction. And yes, you've been on the forefront all along. Hell, you guys even brought in Hitler, China, and everything in between. How long has this been? 2-3 months?

No one even challenged if the ousting was ever legal or unconstitutional until this thread. That's not running my mouth, in case you're a bit slow tonight, Yohan. That's stating facts.

Solution for Ukraine? Is this what this entire political mambo-jumbo, boom-chaka-laka idiocy all about? Someone needs to find a solution? You tell me I have been avoiding the question a lot? And by whom, you?

Well, for starters I'll call dudes with an avatar holding a plastic sword a-la Arnold pose a disgrace to humanity, you know. At least not if they're American. I can see Europeans doing that, but Americans, man? Aren't you a bit embarrassed looking at yourself in that silly pose when you log in every time? Seriously man. What exactly are you trying to be? LOL.

Listen, I'll talk foreign and or current events with you if I knew you're capable of having one because every time I engaged you in the past and gave you *facts* to chew on, you simply ditch, deflect and run. I concluded I need not even *pretend* you're remotely worth it. 'know what I mean?

So, been hanging around high school campuses lately?

Sheeeesh!

[jone]

So now one of the pillars of your arguments has begun to crumble...that is nice to see.



 Haha! You want ME to provide links about US involvement in Ukraine?  That would be easy to do, but wait…just a couple days ago YOU were asked to provide evidence for a personal accusation you made about me regarding a Russian woman…when you were challenged  to provide evidence YOU DIDN’T…you scoured my prior posts and realized you effed up (again)..and quietly slithered off….a phrase comes to mind... "Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander"  Don't whine about additional resources out of me, until you provide or back off your earlier statement regarding something I didn't do.   
You have been incorrect about a lot of things, all the while attempting to maintain an ‘elevated’ sense of knowledge, which it has been proven you do not have.  I've given my opinion (which I don't guarantee) and to this point have been correct regarding the 'big invasion' you are just dying to see. 


Fathertime!

Oh, I haven't run away.  I just have wonderful things happening in my life right now that don't pertain to your sorry butt.

Here's the link regarding your apology.  Once again, you try to talk your way out of things.  I can imagine what your discourse sounds like at home.  It must be very entertaining.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=15509.msg351796#msg351796

As for your constant commentary on the way people think about Maidan and their loved ones, maybe you should give it a break.  Do you realize that the people you're beating the sh&t out of with your opinions have family over there that are awaiting the winds of war?

Let me give a couple of examples:

Muzh, who's wife is from Ukraine, has extended family all throughout Eastern Ukraine.  Calmissile, who you just zeroed in on, has a wife who keeps the gas tank of her car filled so that if she needs to make the run to the Polish border with her young daughter if she can.  Many others have people in the Eastern region right now.  I, myself, have good friends in Kharkiv and an extended family member who's mother is in Poltava.

For many of us this is personal.

That's why your slam shot at me an hour ago about how I really want the invasion to happen because it would prove me right?  Well, I had already told you yesterday that I hoped you were right and I was wrong.  Unfortunately for my friends and all of our extended families I don't think that will come to pass.

When you are flapping your gums and complaining about the pushback, maybe you could have a bit of compassion for the people who's family future is being discussed here.

I have no trouble admitting that I was wrong with LFU.  I now tend to take his point of view that there were mistakes made by the Rada in dismissing Yanu.  But if you were really following this forum and knew the people here, you would realize that the telling post of the last few days was when Muzh could not believe the Oligarch from Donetsk was double dealing.  That is, most likely, the nail in the coffin.  As this oligarch goes, most likely will follow the rest of the country.

People who don't have a dog in the hunt should be sensitive to the guys and gals that do.  Because for them, this is not just a place to prove yourself right.  It is a place to come for solace and support in a very bad situation.

As for the US and Russia's involvement, if you read GQ's post earlier (which was spot on - too bad he is so enamored of himself that he cannot engage meaningful dialogue) regarding fracking outside of Kharkiv, and the timing of the signing of the contracts, you have opined that the US is up to their old tricks again.  I believe that the US is involved, but not at the level that you apparently claim.  I believe that they are involved in the age old game between East and West.  I don't believe that they were arming and paying the Maidan protesters.  That is my opinion, but absent evidence, that Russia surely would have brought out by now, as we have seen FSB involvement, I asked you to prove something you could not.  So, I would simply look deeper, if I were you.  Otherwise, the Russians are our own source of information as they have the most to gain by proving US Maidan involvement.

[BillyB]

This wasn't comparable to the American revolution Billy. 

Why? Because the American revolution was our revolution so it's an honorable and special revolution compared to all others? France gave us weapons. France gave us money. France encouraged us to go for it and they fought along side Americans. Without their help, it may have never happened. Maybe large scale riots but not a revolution without proper backing. At the time nobody thought the American revolution was going to amount to what we have today. At the time, people of the world viewed it as a France vs. Briton dispute. The squabbles between major powers today aren't something new. It's been going on for all history. I don't understand all the shock pertaining to America's foreign policies. If anything, it's been mild compared to other empires.

I am generally anti-foreign aid to most foreign countries, as are the majority of the American people.  It is nothing necessarily against individual countries, but I want tax dollars spent on American’s in America. 

I once had that view earlier in my life but changed my mind. One major reason America is so strong is because we have a very active foreign policy and give out more foreign aid than any other country. It help keep nations friendly and prevents war which is counter productive to a thriving economy.


People talk about America's debt as a problem but it's only a problem if we are the only nation in debt. We aren't. If you take the top two European countries in debt, they'd surpass America's debt. England has massive debt. They are in debt to America the most. So are many other countries. America has controlling share of the World Bank and International Monetary Fund. Why? Because we have the most money to loan. When it comes to money, no other nation is sitting better than America.


If our government focuses all our money on internal problems, it will create more problems, not less. One reason our nation is healthy is because we take care of other nations and in return they take care of us. They are more likely to do business with us for keeping their nation and world a safer place. It cost money to station all those American troops in Europe, Japan, South Korea, Middle East, etc... but the returns outweigh the costs. Both world wars helped catapult America to the top, not because we stayed neutral, but because we participated.

No one even challenged if the ousting was ever legal or unconstitutional until this thread. That's not running my mouth, in case you're a bit slow tonight, Yohan. That's stating facts.

So that's why you think you're so smart. You're the first one do it. Don't stroke your ego so fast. Putin challenged it first right after it happened over a month before you opened your mouth. Most people at this forum didn't buy into it so we didn't feel a need to discuss it. You bought into it. Did you also believe Putin when he said he wasn't going to go into Ukraine, troops are only doing training exercises and there were no Russian troops in Crimea? All your arguments here are invalid because Yanukovych was never legitimately elected.