The Propaganda War

[missAmeno]

I am not aware of any IDENTIFIED Russian army colonels or agents.

http://ru.tsn.ua/politika/glavarem-diversantov-na-vostoke-ukrainy-okazalsya-specnazovec-iz-rossii-sbu-360821.html

[sleepycat]

Just an observation, this time round there doesn't seem to be anything on the social media of western countries about moves to boycott Russian made crap in order to punish them. Normally for a significant world event, there would be some activist groups attempting to do something like that.

[Anotherkiwi]

bla-bla-bla... How long we are going to beat the air? What done is done. Crimea is a part of RF now, do you like, don't you like it, do you agree, don't you agree... you can't change it, so what's the point of this " "?

Sure, what's done is done - that doesn't mean that what happened had any semblance of legality, whatever you and the rest of Russia may think, nor does it mean that the rest of the world should like it.  In any case, there's no guarantee that Russia will be able to, or will want to, hold onto it for an extended period of time, especially if it becomes too much of a drain on the Kremlin's coffers.
 

Making forecasts is like playing lottery, the only diffenrence, with lottery you have a chance to win.  Summer is coming... let's wait a little bit and see what will happen. If you are so excited, you can stake on.

How could I possibly be excited about the prospect of people dying because your country has invaded (sorry, "annexed") part of another?  Are you really that callous?

[GregfromGa]

Callous isn't a word that most Russians or Ukrainians are familiar with for that matter but you hit the nail square on the head.

[die_cast]

Legally Crimea is still part of Ukraine

And that's why Ukrainian companies and banks are leaving Crimea now, because it's a part of Ukraine...

[die_cast]

Stings don't it? 

Why would your opinion make me feel anything?  It's just your opinion, it's just words. 

[die_cast]

How could I possibly be excited about the prospect of people dying because your country has invaded (sorry, "annexed") part of another?  Are you really that callous?

So now you are saying that Crimeans not just will starve, but they will die? And it's me who is callous? 
And yes, I see here many people who are excited to see how Crimea will starve as a part of Russia, and even better if Russians in Russia will starve, because they are such bad people, they invaded Ukraine, they deserve it, right? Let's punish Russians! We can't do it with weapons, but we can wish them to die.
Sure, I'm callous, but you are just sweet white fluffy kittens. 

[BC]

Doesn't it all go back to human nature?  When a situation is bad then look for change?

Is it possible that many in UA are simply disgruntled with years of problems in UA and simply want something new?  What's wrong with a little revolution now and then, especially with the Crimea experience?

If the government is not able to appease the needs of their citizens and treat them fairly then I see nothing wrong, especially if little or no blood is shed in the process.

[Anotherkiwi]

So now you are saying that Crimeans not just will starve, but they will die? And it's me who is callous? 
And yes, I see here many people who are excited to see how Crimea will starve as a part of Russia, and even better if Russians in Russia will starve, because they are such bad people, they invaded Ukraine, they deserve it, right? Let's punish Russians! We can't do it with weapons, but we can wish them to die.
Sure, I'm callous, but you are just sweet white fluffy kittens. 

Don't get all defensively sarcastic just because you don't fully understand me.  Nobody, least of all me, wishes anyone to starve to death, and I don't see how you could possibly infer that from what I've written.  My point is that it is a possibility because of what has taken place so far in Crimea; a possibility which has been acknowledged, at least in general terms, by one of your fellow RW who happens to live right in the middle of the affected area.

[Faux Pas]

Doesn't it all go back to human nature?  When a situation is bad then look for change?

Is it possible that many in UA are simply disgruntled with years of problems in UA and simply want something new?  What's wrong with a little revolution now and then, especially with the Crimea experience?

If the government is not able to appease the needs of their citizens and treat them fairly then I see nothing wrong, especially if little or no blood is shed in the process.

Russia has been a catalyst to the problems of Ukraine since they left the USSR. It's more about control than change IMO

[Faux Pas]

Why would your opinion make me feel anything?  It's just your opinion, it's just words. 

That'd be completely of to you I suppose but the idea that there is a bit of truth to my opinion might make it burn, just a bit 

[Muzh]

Can someone explain what is going on in here?
 

[Muzh]

Okay, so who are the Nazis?
 
http://novosti.dn.ua/details/222825

[Larry1]

This is where you are wrong. You only have the internet that your internet provider allows you to have. I have witnessed this in Russia first hand albeit it, that was 8 years ago. Russia was the first place where I experienced that the world wide web could only be accessed through a local intranet. I did see it improve over the years but lately appears to have regressed. There is a reason the Iranians, Chinese, North Koreans and a dozen or so other countries access an intranet but don't have access to the world wide web. It's not since Putin became Emperor that restrictions are starting tightening once again in Russia.

No doubt, People are just going to disagree. I have friends in Russia (few) that openly support Putin. I also have others (most) who opposed Putin but wouldn't do it in public, outside of the home or circle of friends. I remember seeing pictures of Putin on the walls of various homes and work places when he was the prime minister and no picture of Medvedev and he was president.

I fond it odd that 4 years most Russians were pissed that Putin changes the constitution so that he could again be President. When he enters office there was Arab Spring like uprisings in Moscow and Petersburg and now, he's the second coming of Christ to many of the RW posting here. Very odd

I came across a Financial Times article that has some bearing on this issue:

The Russian government is determined to control the internet as part of its quest to tighten the noose around free speech. Under legislation that took effect on February 1, the internet regulator can block websites carrying content that is deemed “extremist” or suspected of inciting mass disturbances – merely on the orders of the procurator-general’s office. The authorities are making good use of their new powers. As of April 13, the procurator-general’s office had ordered 107 such blockages, at least 80 of which targeted pages with political content.

“The internet in Russia is becoming a very different place,” says Sergei Buntman, deputy editor of the liberal radio station Ekho Moskvy. Its website was taken down and only went online again after it stopped hosting a blog by opposition leader Alexei Navalny.

After President Vladimir Putin brought almost all traditional media either directly under state ownership or into a position where they could be indirectly controlled, online news sites, blogs and social media had become the main source of information and debate for his critics.

Although this space is shrinking, experts say it is unlikely to disappear. “Russia is worlds apart from China, which identified the ‘threat’ posed by the internet upfront and made sure the internet that developed there was domesticised from the beginning,” says Steven Wilson, who teaches Russian politics at Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University.
 

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/3c8495d0-c0ba-11e3-a74d-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2z9nvym7r

The rest of the article is interesting. It begins with a history teacher in Moscow:

... when the mild-mannered 60-year-old tried to discuss Russia’s annexation of Crimea in class, things almost got out of hand. “My students swore at me and said I wasn’t telling the truth,” he says. “Then they said I didn’t love Russia or the Russian people, and told me to leave the country.”

[Muzh]

http://www.bloomberg.com/video/-patriot-games-charlie-rose-02-27-tt2tRQj4Riy0gaDjpenLVA.html

[GQBlues]

More on internet censorships, intranet, web restrictions, etc....

Guys, be careful believing that countries like Iran, China, Russia, India, etc...have very limited, if not censored altogether, access to information via the internet. That can prove dangerous to your internet browsing experience (virtual ignorance).

Consider for a moment, if peoples in these countries can infiltrate, hack, scan, spam, turn-off your TV sets, make you morning coffee, walk your dog - all from the comfort of their highly-restricted and censored computing locations; don't think for a minute they won't have the same full access you do to those silly media-regurgitated *biased news reports* we, here in the *free world*, enjoy everyday.

About the only thing they will likely have difficulty doing is directly asking you if you're done with the sport's page.

[BillyB]

Doesn't it all go back to human nature?  When a situation is bad then look for change?

Is it possible that many in UA are simply disgruntled with years of problems in UA and simply want something new?  What's wrong with a little revolution now and then, especially with the Crimea experience?

If the government is not able to appease the needs of their citizens and treat them fairly then I see nothing wrong, especially if little or no blood is shed in the process.

Ukraine had their revolution and is in the process of changing their government and asking the west for assistance. Most countries and nations can accept that. Russia doesn't accept it because it would take away the influence and control they had over Ukraine's economy that kept it in the dump. Russia didn't have a problem with Ukraine not paying it's gas bill and Crimea belonging to Ukraine when Russia's puppet president was in charge. People want change. They want better. Russia, like an angry ex boyfriend who just got dumped, wants all their gifts back.


Why are some nations so afraid to let Ukraine choose it's destiny through majority vote? I was not happy when Obama won the election but I didn't take up arms and threaten to take my property and secede from America. Ukraine should be allowed to have UN monitors in their country to watch the elections without outside interference. How hard is that for Russia to accept?

[Muzh]

http://www.nzz.ch/aktuell/international/auslandnachrichten/das-luegen-karussell-dreht-sich-immer-schneller-1.18285557

[GQBlues]

Ukraine had their revolution and is in the process of changing their government and asking the west for assistance. Most countries and nations can accept that. Russia doesn't accept it because it would take away the influence and control they had over Ukraine's economy that kept it in the dump. Russia didn't have a problem with Ukraine not paying it's gas bill and Crimea belonging to Ukraine when Russia's puppet president was in charge. People want change. They want better. Russia, like an angry ex boyfriend who just got dumped, wants all their gifts back.


Why are some nations so afraid to let Ukraine choose it's destiny through majority vote? I was not happy when Obama won the election but I didn't take up arms and threaten to take my property and secede from America. Ukraine should be allowed to have UN monitors in their country to watch the elections without outside interference. How hard is that for Russia to accept?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_presidential_election,_2010

"...Fraud suspicions and accusations

According to all international organizations observing the election, allegations of electoral fraud in relation to the first round ballot were unfounded, they declared that the conduct of the elections was within internationally recognized democratic standards and a testament to the will of the people of Ukraine...."
 

[Muzh]

If I remember correctly, the US deposed a lawfully elected President once and we, as a people, were applauded for it. Given that there were no Maidan-type demonstrations where people were gunned down, but everything else was basically the same. At least out President had the decency to resign and didn't take the (gold-plated) kitchen sink with him.

[BillyB]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_presidential_election,_2010

"...Fraud suspicions and accusations

According to all international organizations observing the election, allegations of electoral fraud in relation to the first round ballot were unfounded, they declared that the conduct of the elections was within internationally recognized democratic standards and a testament to the will of the people of Ukraine...."
 

You read my debate with LiveFromUkraine earlier in this thread and you bring up wiki to trump it? 


Why go to wiki when you can go to the source? Go to the OSCE website and read their report on Ukraine's last presidential election based on what they monitored. They said the election met most international commitments, not all. Although Central Election Commission (CEC) accepted the election, 33% of the members wrote dissenting opinions. 33% is not a majority but one out three members seen something wrong with Ukraine's last election. That is 33% too much IMO to call the election fair.

[GQBlues]

If I remember correctly, the US deposed a lawfully elected President once and we, as a people, were applauded for it. Given that there were no Maidan-type demonstrations where people were gunned down, but everything else was basically the same. At least out President had the decency to resign and didn't take the (gold-plated) kitchen sink with him.

I agree completely.

Legal and due process is what rule of laws are all about. Heck, it even almost happened in the late 90s again, too except it (lawful) didn't see the full validation of the process and wasn't able to fully implement exercising impeachment.

I can only wish the same happened in Ukraine. Unfortunately, not so...

[GQBlues]

You read my debate with LiveFromUkraine earlier in this thread and you bring up wiki to trump it? 


Why go to wiki when you can go to the source? Go to the OSCE website and read their report on Ukraine's last presidential election based on what they monitored. They said the election met most international commitments, not all. Although Central Election Commission (CEC) accepted the election, 33% of the members wrote dissenting opinions. 33% is not a majority but one out three members seen something wrong with Ukraine's last election. That is 33% too much IMO to call the election fair.

Translation: 67% said it was fair. Which math do you rely on?

Oh wait, I think I have an idea...

...Why are some nations so afraid to let Ukraine choose it's destiny through majority vote? I was not happy when Obama won the election but I didn't take up arms and threaten to take my property and secede from America. Ukraine should be allowed to have UN monitors in their country to watch the elections without outside interference. How hard is that for Russia to accept?

 


Tip of the Day-
That F-1 student living in Seattle likely need to be a bit more objective in her views...just sayin'

[BillyB]

Translation: 67% said it was fair. Which math do you rely on?

That 67% who didn't see anything wrong were probably monitoring the elections in west Ukraine.


I know some of you guys badly want to believe that the majority of Ukrainians are pro Russian. I hate to burst your bubble but even Putin doesn't believe this. After the revolution a few months ago, Putin wouldn't need to do anything before the election if the majority of people in Ukraine were pro Russian except beg the UN to come, monitor and verify the next president of Ukraine is pro Russian. Nobody would have to die and the international community will accept Putin's influence over Ukraine.

[LiveFromUkraine]

That 67% who didn't see anything wrong were probably monitoring the elections in west Ukraine.


I know some of you guys badly want to believe that the majority of Ukrainians are pro Russian. I hate to burst your bubble but even Putin doesn't believe this. After the revolution a few months ago, Putin wouldn't need to do anything before the election if the majority of people in Ukraine were pro Russian except beg the UN to come, monitor and verify the next president of Ukraine is pro Russian. Nobody would have to die and the international community will accept Putin's influence over Ukraine.

I hate to burst your bubble, not everyone who voted for Yanu is Pro Russian.  The same as me voting for a Democratic presidential runner doesn't make me a Democrat.   Trying to box these people into categories shows your own bias and ignorance.


That is some whacky logic you're trying to make us drink.  The majority isn't Pro Russian so the elections must have been a scam...  lol