The Propaganda War

[calmissile]

Calm, visit my Twitter and perhaps you may wish to follow some of the folk that I follow, and follow me as well.. In no time, you'll have more info than you can handle.

Mendeleyev Journal@russianreport

Warning: there are plenty of Russian (pro) sources there as well. Balance is good.

Thanks Mendy.   I have never used Twitter, but guess I will have to succumb to the modern age.   

[AC]

Calm, visit my Twitter and perhaps you may wish to follow some of the folk that I follow, and follow me as well.. In no time, you'll have more info than you can handle.

Mendeleyev Journal@russianreport

Warning: there are plenty of Russian (pro) sources there as well. Balance is good.

[jone]

The Moscow Times website is down:  Apparently by cyber attack.

[mendeleyev]

AC, you cannot understand an issue completely until you know both sides. To know both sides does not mean compromise, well, at least if you know yourself and you have values that matter, which I do.

We point fingers at the domination of Russia media, from television to radio to print, and we rightly call out propaganda when we see/hear it. At the same time, it would be wrong to do the same thing in reverse. One cannot understand the other side if the other side is not engaged. I make no apology for such engagements. A wise man once said it is best to hold friends close...and enemies even closer.

How can a journalist write or broadcast what the "other side" thinks if he doesn't ever get in the other side's face and ask questions? Frankly, some of my best leads come from official Kremlin sources. I am intelligent enough to understand democratic values, and to discern when dictatorial values are presented with a sugar coating.

[lordtiberius]

That is like saying you cannot judge or sentence a rapist unless you know both sides.

There is no escape for Russia if it keeps Putin.  Justice is coming

[mendeleyev]

That is like saying you cannot judge or sentence a rapist unless you know both sides.

In a civilized society, a trial is heard on such issues as you make for an example. A judge and jury does listen to both sides. Then sentences.

You might wish to review the correct order of things, in spite of your passionate anger.

[AC]

AC, you cannot understand an issue completely until you know both sides. To know both sides does not mean compromise, well, at least if you know yourself and you have values that matter, which I do.

We point fingers at the domination of Russia media, from television to radio to print, and we rightly call out propaganda when we see/hear it. At the same time, it would be wrong to do the same thing in reverse. One cannot understand the other side if the other side is not engaged. I make no apology for such engagements. A wise man once said it is best to hold friends close...and enemies even closer.

How can a journalist write or broadcast what the "other side" thinks if he doesn't ever get in the other side's face and ask questions? Frankly, some of my best leads come from official Kremlin sources. I am intelligent enough to understand democratic values, and to discern when dictatorial values are presented with a sugar coating.

Good response.  Some don't like Doll or fathertime posting here and I welcome them (although it gets monotonous) as examples.

[lordtiberius]

In a civilized society, a trial is heard on such issues as you make for an example. A judge and jury does listen to both sides. Then sentences.

You might wish to review the correct order of things, in spite of your passionate anger.

We have a right to be angry as do the Russians who lost only sons and Russians who have had life savings wiped out.  Remember that when you speak of honest Russians. Win win

[LiveFromUkraine]

That is like saying you cannot judge or sentence a rapist unless you know both sides.

You mean like the UVA rape case? 

[lordtiberius]

You mean like the UVA rape case?

About as funny and as tactful as a Kermit Gosnell budget abortion

[AC]

About as funny and as tactful as a Kermit Gosnell budget abortion

Don't you know brother?  "Liberals" believe killing an unborn baby is a woman's right.

But heaven forbid if the CIA uses enhanced interrogation methods on adult terrorists.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Don't you know brother?  "Liberals" believe killing an unborn baby is a woman's right.

But heaven forbid if the CIA uses enhanced interrogation methods on adult terrorists.

LT, is your life that bad you need to create fake accounts just so you have someone to talk to you? 

[lordtiberius]

LT, is your life that bad you need to create fake accounts just so you have someone to talk to you?

No.  My life is so bad that I have to swift through comments from real geniuses like you to read the gems from him.

[Muzh]

That is like saying you cannot judge or sentence a rapist unless you know both sides.

There is no escape for Russia if it keeps Putin.  Justice is coming

Dude!!! What is your obsession?

[Brasscasing]

A ramped up edict issued by Medvedev as reported by RT...

Ukraine has been turned into Russia’s potential enemy – Medvedev

Russian PM Dmitry Medvedev thinks the recent unfriendly moves by Presidents Poroshenko and Obama effectively turn Ukraine into Russia’s potential enemy. It will also “poison” relations with the US for decades to come.

On Facebook, Medvedev commented on the Ukraine Freedom Act 2014 signed by Barack Obama last week, and on the Ukrainian parliament’s intention to cancel a national law forbidding them to join military blocs.

“As in the case with the Jackson-Vanik amendment, our relations with America will be poisoned for decades to come,” he added.

Medvedev also underlined that if Ukraine changed its out-of-bloc status, it would in essence be an application to join NATO, rendering Ukraine Russia’s potential enemy.

“Both these decisions would have extremely negative consequences,” the Russian Prime Minister wrote, adding that Russia would have to react to such hostile steps.

Last week, Prime Minister Medvedev published an article, in which he warned Ukraine that EU economic policy is pushing them into a full scale crisis.

“The EU needs Ukraine primarily as a source of raw materials and definitely as a new market for European companies,” he wrote. “No one is hurrying to invite Ukraine to the common European table as an equal partner. They aren’t even offering a side chair; they are deliberately putting this country in a position of a girl who goes on dates that never end in marriage,” the Russian PM said.

In the same article, Medvedev reviewed the history of Russian-Ukrainian relations and described his view on the future relations between nations that, in the PM’s words, “don’t have and never will have real borders between them.”

http://rt.com/politics/216967-medvedev-ukraine-russia-usa/

The last paragraph ..."Medvedev reviewed the history of Russian-Ukrainian relations and described his view on the future relations between nations that in the PM’s words, “don’t have and never will have real borders between them.”...is particularly revealing in that, at least in his (Medvedev's) view Ukraine's borders, or in other words sovereignty, doesn't exist.

Brass

[jone]

Oh, Dmetri!

Can't believe what you write and believe.  It is the old Soviet 'BIG LIE'.

The truth is that it is the Russian economy that is tanking.  It is Russia who will always be a bridesmaid because it cannot match the success of the other Eastern European countries and the Baltic States who have moved to a market economy.

As for NATO being an enemy, there was a time where Russia would have been considered to be a NATO partner.  Now Russia has labelled NATO an enemy because it cannot hold its country together so we have daily incursions into NATO airspace to provoke a response, diverting the people's attention away from economic failure.

I have always liked Medvedev as he never took himself too seriously (or believed his press releases).  But now, with Russia experiencing a dramatic economic meltdown, he is forced to heap fuel on the fire that is burning out of control; the Big Soviet Lie.

It should be noted that Ukraine did revoke its neutral status yesterday in a move to apply for NATO membership.

[Photo Guy]

I just came to RWD to post this statement from Medvedev. You beat me to it.
My question is- why does Russia view NATO as the 'enemy'?? Is NATO invading Siberia or St. Petersburg? Are there NATO troops threatening Russia. No. However, there are Russian troops inside Ukraine, and Russia is encouraging the establishment of a New Russia INSIDE Ukraine....

[lordtiberius]

 

That was good Jone

[AC]

Evgeny Kiselev: “Russian media are becoming showpieces from a Kunstkamera”

(He is a Russian journalist from Moscow now living and working in Kiev.  His response about Crimea is the best response that I've ever read)

excerpt
To whom does Crimea belong?

OM: They say that Ukrainians test Russians on whether they are sincere by asking them a simple question: To whom does Crimea belong?

EK: That’s true. And my answer to this question would be clear and explicit: Crimea belongs to Ukraine. It was illegally annexed by Russia on an absolutely deceitful pretext—the alleged threat to ethnic Russians in Crimea (which was not true)—and with the help of military forces (the “green people”) and lies (a hastily organized and profaned “referendum”). I don’t see any difference between what Putin did to Crimea and how Saddam Hussein annexed Kuwait (and the whole world, including the USSR, rose up against him). I believe that one day, Crimea will have to be returned to Ukraine with no conditions or reservations, just like Alsace and Lorraine were once returned to France and the Sudetenland to Czechoslovakia.


http://www.imrussia.org/en/opinions/2093-evgeny-kiselev-russian-media-are-becoming-showpieces-from-a-kunstkamera

[Изумруд]

I thought these articles might be of interest to those debating the participation of Russian 'volunteers' in Ukraine.  Straight from the horse's mouth so to speak; the original is in Russian, and a translated version:

http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/direct-translation-how-a-retired-russian-army-officer-sends-volunteers-to-fight-in-ukraine#.VKFQqowme11.twitter

http://www.e1.ru/news/spool/news_id-416966.html

I find the stories of Russian mothers getting no answers from the state about their sons' deaths in active service in Ukraine pretty depressing:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11314817/Secret-dead-of-Russias-undeclared-war.html

[AC]

I thought these articles might be of interest to those debating the participation of Russian 'volunteers' in Ukraine.  Straight from the horse's mouth so to speak; the original is in Russian, and a translated version:

http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/direct-translation-how-a-retired-russian-army-officer-sends-volunteers-to-fight-in-ukraine#.VKFQqowme11.twitter

http://www.e1.ru/news/spool/news_id-416966.html

I find the stories of Russian mothers getting no answers from the state about their sons' deaths in active service in Ukraine pretty depressing:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11314817/Secret-dead-of-Russias-undeclared-war.html

Welcome to the forum.  Thanks for posting some interesting links.  Doll is the one who claims that Russian soldiers are not in Ukraine.  It would be interesting to see a native Russian speaker debate with her.  Her strategy seems to be to act really dumb.

[Изумруд]

Welcome to the forum.  Thanks for posting some interesting links.  Doll is the one who claims that Russian soldiers are not in Ukraine.  It would be interesting to see a native Russian speaker debate with her.  Her strategy seems to be to act really dumb.

Thanks for the welcome   I'm not a native Russian speaker, but I have been living in Russia for the last 10 years.  I think the evidence is there, it's whether one chooses to believe it or not.

[mendeleyev]

The news you may not hear about on Russian media is in the Mendeleyev Journal today:

In Russian culture there is supposed to be lull regarding news during the holiday period. In fact, some publications even go on "holiday" during the season between the end of the year and just past Christmas on 07 January. Somebody forgot to remind the news-makers it would seem.
The funny: there is always an aspect of news in Russia that lends itself to hilarity. The country just cannot help itself apparently.

So, it was not that big of a surprise when last week the interior ministry declared that miniskirts were no longer appropriate for female police officers. It is true that miniskirts have never been part of the officially approved uniform, however there is something about seeing a young female officer in a very short skirt, while wearing high heels, that just makes you want to be chased--and caught.

Interior Ministry officials have watched, literally we can only assume, as hemlines have become shorter and shorter on the skirts of female officers. Heels have inched higher, too. Having seen enough, officials have decided to lower those hemlines and heels, back to something more representative of a respectable police force.

Commanders across Russia have been issued guidelines on daily uniform inspections. To keep it equal, male officers will no longer be allowed to wear sleeveless shirts in summer--something that had become somewhat of a trend in more recent years.

The odd: Tourism from the West is not exactly on the upswing as of late, due to sanctions and political spats between Russia and the West. However, the folk in Moscow are eternal optimists and just in time for the extended holiday period, the city has introduced a couple hundred "tourist police" on the streets. Think of them as bi-lingual tour guides with a map of the city in one hand and a pair of handcuffs in the other.

They can speak English (at least to a degree), help tourists navigate around the city, and then lock them up at night if the tourists misbehave. What a country!



(Moscow Mayor Sergei Sobyanin inspects new "kneeling" buses, designed for easier passenger access.)


The vanishing: the brain and talent appears to continue unabated.

The latest high profile person to flee the country is Pavel Durov, the founder of Vkontake (known as "vk"), Russia's answer to Facebook. Durov says that VK had been under pressure to reveal personal information to the Kremlin regarding VK users from Ukraine. That came not long after President Putin had declared that the Internet had been invented as a tool for the CIA. We should note that Mr. Putin makes only scant use of the Internet.

Last week Durov as fired as CEO of the company he had founded and the Kremlin-friendly Igor Sechin, CEO of Russian oil giant Rosneft, was handed the reins. Perhaps Sechin was getting bored at his current job; oil sales are not exactly on the upswing as of late. The Kremlin has made no secret of its mistrust of the evil Internet.





Durov told technology newsite Techcrunch that he planned to launch another mobile social network, outside of Russia, naturally. He told the publication that, "I am out of Russia and have no plans to go back."

The continuing crackdown on a free press:




Last week the Kremlin moved to install new directors at the single remaining opposition radio network, Echo Radio, headquartered in Moscow. The station has been a thorn in the side of the Kremlin, and apparently a private summons for Chief editor Alexei Venediktov to meet personally with President Putin did little to bring the journalists of Radio Echo into "compliance."

So, Gazprom Media, as in the state controlled Gazprom Oil (one of the largest oil companies in the world), still retains a majority interest in the stock of the station, has moved to tighten control. Gazprom owns 66% and the 89 journalists of Radio Echo own the remaining 34%.

To make sure that Radio Echo tones down the independent rhetoric, the government media watchdog Roskomnadzor slapped the station with a warning after Echo interviewed journalists who detailed direct Russian involvement in the war in Eastern Ukraine. After the broadcast, Roskomnadzor notified the station of the warning, saying that Radio Echo had broadcast "information justifying war crimes."

Roskomnadzor warnings carry weight--two warnings allows the government to shut down a broadcast facility.

Even more on the continuing crackdown on a free press:

Yevgenia Albats, editor-in-chief of The New Times, one of the few remaining print publications independent of the Kremlin, has been accused of disobeying traffic police. Although authorities could not come up with specifics of her disobedience, the editor has been charged. She claims to have been pulled over in a routine traffic stop and handed over the proper paperwork when asked. The officers then charged Albats with disobeying police orders. If convicted she faces up to 15 days in jail.

Already the government-controlled television NTV, the channel that often conducts smear campaigns on those whom the Kremlin has labeled as enemies, has broadcast that the editor was leaving a "party at a Georgian restaurant" in Moscow. The state of relations between the Kremlin and the former Soviet republic of Georgia has remained tense since the Russian invasion of Georgia in 2008.





The Albats case will be heard in court this Tuesday, 30 December.

The very bad:

Most Western readers probably have little to no knowledge of the oil spill in the Black Sea last week. Why? Because the Russian media is not exactly racing to cover the story. Last week a large Russian oil pipeline burst a pipeline outside the town of Tuapse. Russian oil giant Rosneft was constructing pipeline in the area for use by Transneft, Russia's major pipeline transporter.

The local government has declared a state of emergency, and whether intended or not, the declaration has hampered efforts by independent media and world scientific experts to inspect the damage. Severe winter weather has hampered clean-up efforts.

Groups such as the World Wildlife Fund and Inhabit claim that Satellite imagery indicates between 500 to 700 tons of oil were spilled into the Black Sea. If true, that could be almost 100 times more oil than Russian government sources have estimated.

[JayH]

Students asked--Is Ukraine a Threat to Russia
To spoil your reading the conclusion is yes!!!  Why--because of the democratic process !!


. Students at the Faculty of the Kuban State University, an exam for the discipline "The constitutional foundations of national security." One of the issues on which they will have to answer - "Ukraine as a threat to national security." The correct answer to this question them, I think, hard preparing teaching staff of constitutional and municipal law. Head. Department - Olga Kovtun ANDREYEVNA, PhD, associate professor, in 1987 she defended her thesis on "Legal regulation of relations of power supply and electrical maintenance of collective farms." I never thought that electricity collective farms requires a separate legal regulation, but maybe something I do not understand ... Although the essence of the matter, of course, the relevance of scientific achievements Associate Professor Kovtun, and "inverted" picture of the world that are investing in students' minds . And not only the Kuban State University. Russia In Ukraine, the Russian military killed - allegedly being "on vacation" or "at the exercises." Their death is hidden and their families are under tremendous pressure - to remain silent. And we must be fully zombie Russian TV channels to believe that the Ukrainian army opposed "desperate civilians Donetsk", and not disguised regular units of the Russian army. Russian propaganda calls the Ukrainian authorities "Kiev junta" and "fascists." Ukrainian people - "Bandera" and the Ukrainian army to defend their country - "The Punisher" (it is worth recalling what they do the Russian army in Chechnya). And glorifies non-existent "New Russia" and "People's Republic" on the part of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions. Ukraine has viewed Russia as the worst enemy. Note: Ukraine is not Russia took away a single square meter of its territory to the territory of the Russian soldiers do not fight Ukrainian and Ukrainian citizens, Ukraine is not supplying weapons Russian separatists and the Russian government calls the "fascists" and "junta". However, Kuban students (and, most likely, not only them) teach that Ukraine is a threat to Russia's national security, and not vice versa. This is worse than a lie. This is a deliberate meanness. Same as taken by the Russian authorities in the "Ukrainian question" political line that caused the President of Ukraine PoroshenkoNew Year's address to declare : "The worst enemy invaded our lives, territory, freedom, independence." See also: dislocated soul and blurred vision In just one year the Putin regime has made a monstrously impossible: Ukraine, contact us centuries of common history and culture, has viewed Russia as the worst enemy. Damn those who started this war and support who glorify gangsters and terrorists who recruit and egg "volunteers." They represent a major threat to our national security. I believe that all of them will sit on a long bench. And not in The Hague, and in Russia - when it will be another power. It will happen. As for Ukraine - it is a threat, but not to Russia's national security, and for the current Russian political regime. Because her example shows that you can change the discredited government. You can get rid of the corrupt president, there was a post and resources to friends and relatives. It is possible to hold fair elections. You can pass a law on lustration. And you can go on the European road. This path does not guarantee happiness - but it gives hope. In contrast to the way in which our country is moving today. Close to it is not too late. Read the original publication on "Echo of Moscow".
Больше читайте здесь: http://ru.tsn.ua/analitika/vrag-gosudarstva-1-403785.html

[Photo Guy]

The battle is ideological. Moscow and Russia feel connected to Kiev, in a brotherly way. Putin cannot come to terms with Kiev's movement towards the EU and democracy, while Moscow wants to go back to a Neo-Soviet state, a state that suppresses freedoms and discourages democracy, a state that isn't ready to confront corruption or end a dictatorship. That's a huge ideological divide. The West has influenced many Ukrainians over the past twenty years. They see what life is like in the West, by taking trips there, and learning through the internet. Generally, communication has pushed Ukrainians away from Russia and towards the EU. When Russia turned the gas off a few years ago, I think that was a major public relations disaster for Moscow, and Ukrainians became disgusted with politics in general. The Maidan revolution offered Ukrainians hope for a better future.