The Propaganda War

[Boethius]

Poroshenko-Valtsman pro-Western puppet.I am a citizen of Russia, and I am opposed to NATO expansion to the East.

But you don't get a say in who Ukrainians vote for.


Ukrainians never supported NATO until your president decided to invade them.  So that is Russian propaganda you have fallen for.

[Boethius]

I did not say that Russia alone won the war.You have enough truthful information.I just responded to cues that the Allies won the war.I understand very little English.

Nobody posted that the Allies won the war.  I posted that the war was won by a joint effort, not by the Red Army alone.

[Muzh]

In Donbass children are dying.We pray that God averted war on Russia.
I have doubt, do I have to meet someone.

Hi Larissa, i expanded your avatar to have a better look at you.

[HoundDaddyLee]

Jon,


Since you are in St. Petersburg you should swing by the PutinBot spammer factory and say Hi to Larissa. 


HDL

[Boethius]

Her view is not uncommon in Russia, in fact, it is the majority view.  Or, so I've been told.

[HoundDaddyLee]

Her view is not uncommon in Russia, in fact, it is the majority view.  Or, so I've been told.

It is a shame that there is now this "cold war" like distrust between citizens of the two countries...


HDL

[jone]

Yah know what I can't figure out?

Why the Russians can't do the math?  Before Maidan, they had about 53, maybe 52% Party of Regions.  They go in and lop off of Crimea.  Then they go in and stir up Donbass and Lugansk.  Then they can't figure out why the electoral map has tilted against them. 

They keep everyone in place, don't steal Crimea, and in four years they would have had their own guy ruining the country again.

[Photo Guy]

There is some hope.
A few days ago I was speaking with a Russian citizen from St. Petersburg. She was here on a J1 visa, working in a National Park. She does not like Putin. She does not like Russian propaganda. She sees people here in the USA. She knows that most of them are not thinking about Russia or Ukraine or the Donbas region. She sees RT news telling Russian people that the USA wants to 'conquer' Russia. She knows it is ridiculous. When she goes home to Russia, her friends and relatives tell her to not be so outspoken about Russian propaganda. They are worried that she could be punished or harmed. She told me many people in Russia believe the propaganda because they hear it over and over again, every day. So...there are some Russians who know the truth.
   On the other hand, one of my friends in Kyiv thinks that the war is very confusing. She is pretty sure that some people are making money from the war. She is cynical about the new government in Kiev. She acknowledges that a lot of the problems are due to corruption in the entire country. It looks like the optimism of Maidan is slowly giving way to pessimism... 

[Photo Guy]

Larissa2,
Remember when Putin went to Normandy to remember the Allied invasion? Soldiers and civilians from many different countries died during WWII. Did you know that the allies sent many planes and supplies to Russia during the war? Did you know that Stalin and Hitler agreed to allow each other to invade Poland?

Why is Russia so afraid of NATO? What has NATO done to Russia? Why are so many countries afraid of Russia? Scandinavia? The Baltics? Georgia? Even Belarus has stated that they will defend themselves against Russian invaders. Who is more dangerous- Russia or NATO? Why do so many Russian elites choose to attend universities in the West? Why has Putin chosen to push Ukrainians away from Russia? Why does Putin threaten Ukraine, when Ukrainians choose to trade with the EU? Why does Moscow lie about the US wanting to conquer Russia?

[Larissa2]

Larissa2,
Remember when Putin went to Normandy to remember the Allied invasion? Soldiers and civilians from many different countries died during WWII. Did you know that the allies sent many planes and supplies to Russia during the war? Did you know that Stalin and Hitler agreed to allow each other to invade Poland?

Why is Russia so afraid of NATO? What has NATO done to Russia? Why are so many countries afraid of Russia? Scandinavia? The Baltics? Georgia? Even Belarus has stated that they will defend themselves against Russian invaders. Who is more dangerous- Russia or NATO? Why do so many Russian elites choose to attend universities in the West? Why has Putin chosen to push Ukrainians away from Russia? Why does Putin threaten Ukraine, when Ukrainians choose to trade with the EU? Why does Moscow lie about the US wanting to conquer Russia?

The Russia dropped an atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki?
The Russia committed genocide in Serbia, Libya, Iraq?
The Russia seeks to dominate the world?
The Russia defends all the time.
I understand you is not pleasant, but it's a fact.

[HoundDaddyLee]

The Russia dropped an atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

   Seriously? We dropped the bomb to avoid millions of further casualties.We saved many Russian lives by doing that. You do know that Russia had declared war on Japan, right?

[Larissa2]

Why Russia does not place its troops near the US?
Why is the United States wants to deploy troops around Russia?
Why is the US all the time interferes in the affairs of other countries?

[Larissa2]

   Seriously? We dropped the bomb to avoid millions of further casualties.We saved many Russian lives by doing that. You do know that Russia had declared war on Japan, right?

 Seriously.
Russia to liberate its territories Sakhalin and the Kuriles.This is our territory
Japan, together with Germany declared war on Russia.

[Faux Pas]

Her view is not uncommon in Russia, in fact, it is the majority view.  Or, so I've been told.

Unfortunately, this is true. Many of my wife's friends and our joint friends in Russia are towing the party propaganda. My wife and her sister will no longer discuss politics with the MIL, she too has drank the kool aid

[alex330]

Her view is not uncommon in Russia, in fact, it is the majority view.  Or, so I've been told.

Not uncommon for Russians living here in the US as well. We no longer speak to a number of individuals because of this. Turns my stomach they are so blind.

[krimster2]

It’s ironic to hear how Russians are disturbed by or outraged over the civilian casualties in the Donbas Russian/Ukrainian conflict, while at the same time Russian actions would seem to indicate that producing these casualties is in fact their goal.  Let the people from Donbas tell you themselves:

http://www.stopfake.org/en/russian-media-misrepresent-protester-demands-in-donetsk/

Russian units park their artillery in residential areas alongside occupied houses and shell Ukrainian positions and then pull-out before the Ukrainian counter-fire kills innocent civilians.
A deliberate action on part of the Russians who just as easily could’ve chosen an unoccupied area.  Then of course when civilians are killed Russians point their fingers at the “Fascist Junta”, and claim that Russia is just protecting the poor Russian speaking civilians there, ...
Hopefully the people in Donbas who were in this video will slowly begin to realize that these actions are not accidental and that they are just pawns and that their lives are of no real value to anyone in the Kremlin except for their propaganda value.  Meanwhile, we have captured Russian soldiers in Donbas, captured Russian military hardware, the leaders of the DPR are all Russian, and yet somehow Russian media is able to label this as “America’s War”. 

When I lived in Ukraine, I felt enormous sympathy for the young people I met there, even before the war, they lacked a future, one of my former employees from Kharkiv is now

[Larissa2]

It’s ironic to hear how Russians are disturbed by or outraged over the civilian casualties in the Donbas Russian/Ukrainian conflict, while at the same time Russian actions would seem to indicate that producing these casualties is in fact their goal.  Let the people from Donbas tell you themselves:

http://www.stopfake.org/en/russian-media-misrepresent-protester-demands-in-donetsk/

Russian units park their artillery in residential areas alongside occupied houses and shell Ukrainian positions and then pull-out before the Ukrainian counter-fire kills innocent civilians.
A deliberate action on part of the Russians who just as easily could’ve chosen an unoccupied area.  Then of course when civilians are killed Russians point their fingers at the “Fascist Junta”, and claim that Russia is just protecting the poor Russian speaking civilians there, ...
Hopefully the people in Donbas who were in this video will slowly begin to realize that these actions are not accidental and that they are just pawns and that their lives are of no real value to anyone in the Kremlin except for their propaganda value.  Meanwhile, we have captured Russian soldiers in Donbas, captured Russian military hardware, the leaders of the DPR are all Russian, and yet somehow Russian media is able to label this as “America’s War”. 

When I lived in Ukraine, I felt enormous sympathy for the young people I met there, even before the war, they lacked a future, one of my former employees from Kharkiv is now

Yes.Russia on itself attacked.
Russia has placed the Indians on reservations.
Putin is to blame.

[Boethius]

Yes.Russia on itself attacked.

Donbas is not in Russia.

[krimster2]

Yes Larissa, Russia HAS attacked itself many times! There were an estimated 7,000,000-12,000,000 deaths during the Russian Civil War of 1917-1922, most of whom were civilians...   Do you have any idea of how many Soviet citizens were killed in the 1937-1938 purge?  Here, let me tell you, the answer is almost 700,000!  Any idea how many died during the Holodomor? What, you don’t even know what that is?  Well let me provide you with that answer as well, the number is in the millions!   Yeah, Russians worried about the fate of Russian speakers, so very sad, they should do something about it...

[mendeleyev]

Larissa,

I live in Russia. I am a journalist accredited with the Russian Foreign Ministry.

I have been in Eastern Ukraine, and yes there are Russian soldiers there. In fact, the Russian government has already awarded death benefits to the families of over 2,000 dead Russian young men. Over 3,200 disabled soldiers received cash disability payouts from the Russian government for injuries suffered from fighting in Eastern Ukraine. To receive benefits the families must agree to a code of silence.

What you see on Russian television, especially on channels like the First Channel, is nothing but pure lies.

By the way, I am also Russian Orthodox.

[mendeleyev]

Larisa, I can understand the Russian feelings of pain over the Great Patriotic War. I have spent countless hours over the years at Victory Park in Moscow. I have seen the 1,418 fountains, one for each day of the war, run red at night to symbolize the millions who died.

Very few families were untouched by death and suffering in those years. As a Russian Orthodox believer, I pray for the souls of those who perished and ask that God grant them eternal memory.




(photo: Mendeleyev Journal)


I have stood countless times to admire the tall St George obelisk, towering 1,418 metres high.



(photo: Mendeleyev Journal)


I have toured the museum with hall after hall of displays, including the displays of equipment sent to Russia by the USA and other Allies.



(photo: Mendeleyev Journal)


Last year my mother-in-law, retired professor at МГУ, published a book on the children who survived that dark period, and who are now elderly adults. I have met several of those wonderful people, and have a deep respect for what they suffered.

I have also met with elderly soldiers who remember the first aid kits and meal packs from the USA. Stalin had ordered that whenever possible the English lettering be removed or covered, but more than one Red Army veteran has described in detail the mush, a mixture of hashed meat, potato and corn, which was designed to deliver 900-1100 calories. Some of them swear that they could still recall the taste of those tins that came from strange sounding places with Indian names, like Kansas, Iowa, Nebraska, and South Dakota.

Early this summer I visited, with a military historian escort (a Colonel), several places of significance in the fighting outside of Moscow. I witnessed the removal of fictitious names from monuments, and then the imprinting of real names, where whole armies and generals had been simply wiped off the pages of history because Stalin had purged their leaders. Thankfully, the current government is fixing that sad part of Soviet history, and true heroes are being given back their rightful place in history.

Having grown up primarily in America, schools consistently teach the history that the Red Army played a vital role in the victory, and that the Soviet Union suffered more causalities than all the other nations put together. There is great respect for men like Marshal Zhukov.

Not so long ago, fellow Russian journalist Ilya Varlamov, a highly respected photo journalist, toured the USA in summer. He wrote about how little he encountered about Russia. When introduced, most people greeted him warmly. He found an almost complete absence of anything about Russia in the news.

Since you brought up the subject of Russia being Orthodox, you might be surprised at the number of Orthodox in North America. Just in the USA, and not including Canada or Mexico, there are almost 1,500 Orthodox Churches. Most of these were started by either the Greeks or the Russians. In fact, I will bet that you are very aware of a famous USA Saint--Tikhon. You probably know him as the Patriarch of Moscow and all Russia, Тихон. Did your education of Тихон include the fact that he was a naturalized citizen of the USA and served as the Archbishop of all America prior to being elected the new Patriarch of Russia?

[krimster2]

One of my best memories of Sevastopol was one day walking home from the beach up a long hill, on my way up, I was approaching a short, very elderly man who seemed to be struggling but was persevering, as I approached, I said “drasvidi”, and we mutually inspected each other for a moment, he wore a black kapka, blue jacket adorned with many medals and the bluest eyes I’ve ever seen, we exchanged greetings, I explained I was an American (I think he could figure that out!) living in Sevastopol with my family.  I asked about his many medals, he said “Stalingrad”. I offered him my arm and we slowly climbed the hill, and we talked a bit, I invited him to my home for lunch which was just off the top of the hill, he accepted (wife wasn’t too happy about bringing strangers home, got a lecture about that), she reluctantly played host and translator.  The stories he told were beyond anything the average person could ever imagine.  Imagine having Typhoid, fleas, dysentary, no food, no water, trying to dig a fox hole in frozen ground with bullets passing inches over your head, the bodies of your comrades laying frozen all around you...  When we parted, I held his hands and said 'spossiba, he smiled and winked at me and I never saw him again.
There ain’t a drop of hatred in my heart for the Russian people, but Putin what you’re doing to them really pisses me off!   

[krimster2]

oh and my second best memory of Sevastopol were the topless women at the beach, got a lecture about that to...

[calmissile]

Krimster2,

Nice story about the old man in Sevastopol.  Your bringing back some of the best memories of our recent past.  A short vacation together to Sevastopol is when my wife and I fell in love with each other.  Setting off our first Chinese lantern on the waterfront one evening.  The incredible tour of the underground submarine base at Balaclava and the tour of the ancient ruins, etc.

It was peaceful, everyone got along with each other and at that time many Ukrainians vacationed in Crimea including my MIL.  It is very sad that the gutless Europeans allowed Putin to invade and occupy this wonderful land.  I hope that eventually it will be returned to Ukraine and can once again be shared by everyone.

I had similar experiences talking to natives in Ukraine during my many trips.  Once making friends of several families I would be taken around to their friends and formed many more friendships.  Never, was there one person that showed any animosity toward me as an American.  They seemed as interested in me and my culture as I was about theirs.

The only time I recall the natives being reluctant to speak was when I was attempting to learn their feelings about the presidential elections and Yanukovich.   
Clearly they had a fear of their political feelings being known outside their own family.  It reminded me of the stories we had heard for years about that same behavior (fear) being widespread in Russia

[Larissa2]

Donbas is not in Russia.

The residents of Donbass not want to be a part of Ukraine.