USA should start denying tourist visas to ALL Russians

[ML]

What would be the consequences if USA and other western countries started denying tourist visas to ALL Russians?

Russia would reciprocate of course.

But only a tiny fraction of western citizens (including those here married to RW) would be upset about not being able to go to Russia.

Conversely, a much larger fraction of Russian citizens would be upset about not being able to travel to the west.

Wouldn't this make Putin less popular with the Russian citizens?

I think this.

Yes, of course, there would be some loss of tourist dollars, but if we are really serious about consequences . . .

What are the other opinions?

[Larry1]

What would be the consequences if USA and other western countries started denying tourist visas to ALL Russians?

Wouldn't this make Putin less popular with the Russian citizens?

I think this.

What are the other opinions?

I don't think this would make Putin less popular with most Russians.  The vast majority of them support Putin at least as much as Germans supported Hitler in the late 1930s.  The middle-aged ones long for the Stalin era when many Russians were killed in the gulag.  Just post a topic about Stalin and you will see.

[ML]

I understand that the Russians mostly support Putin.

But now, take something away from them in a manner that they can attribute directly to Putin's actions.

Yes, they will be peeeeed at the west, but they are anyway.

There would have to be some additional peeeeed directed toward Putin.

Tie up a few wealthy people's money and travel as we have done, and they likely have gazillions stashed away elsewhere.

But take away out-of-country trips for millions . . . that would probably cause some anguish.

Can't view the latest fashions in person in France or Italy or suntan in Turkey . . . OMG !!

[die_cast]

What would be the consequences if USA and other western countries started denying tourist visas to ALL Russians?

EU are very much about money, they are not going to start denying visas to Russian, quite the opposite, they are going to make the process of getting visa a bit easier for Russians.

Wouldn't this make Putin less popular with the Russian citizens?

This would not make Putin less popular, this will make USA less popular.

[fathertime]

Yes, of course, there would be some loss of tourist dollars, but if we are really serious about consequences . . .

What are the other opinions?

Hey ML!


I think we would be shooting ourselves in the foot by doing this....Some Russians are spending very big money here...that is good for us, and not so good for Russia...I  think we should allow that to continue as it helps our position overall.  I read recently that the Russians have bought 1 billion in US real estate since 2012...It benefits us to allow that to continue...otherwise they will just find another place to buy and we will just lose the infusion of foreign money in an already suspect economy. 
 
http://news.yahoo.com/russian-sanctions-pointless-next-ones-could-hurt-u-193330373.html;_ylt=AwrSyCP_vkhTY2AATwrQtDMD


In terms of options, it seems whatever we do it is going to boomerang back at us...so unless the American people are willing to accept some suffering over this, it is going to be an uphill battle to do much.   I'd say one of the best things that can be done is avoid spending money in their country, if one feels the need to do something.   




Fathertime! 

[Slumba]

I personally think it would be unwise to punish ordinary citizens over the behavior of an REMF (which is what KGB is full of ) who is doing the bidding of the country's oligarchs.

Better for them to see the USA and realize we are not scary monsters but have some kind of functioning society even without Putin.  Not saying the US is perfect, it certainly isn't...

"I know you're out there. I can feel you now. I know that you're afraid... you're afraid of us. You're afraid of change. I don't know the future. I didn't come here to tell you how this is going to end. I came here to tell you how it's going to begin. I'm going to hang up this phone, and then I'm going to show these people what you don't want them to see. I'm going to show them a world without you. A world without rules and controls, without borders or boundaries. A world where anything is possible. Where we go from there is a choice I leave to you. "

[Maxx2]

America ought to leave Russia alone and be satisfied that it overthrown the Ukrainian government and installed it's own puppets. America should stop wining about Russia getting 3% of Ukraine. If Russia or China overthrown Canada or Mexico and installed a pro-Chinese/Russian government with economic ties to them as in no-more-NAFTA do you think we would stand for it??? Hell the Abrams tanks and A-10s would be across the border in no time. Study your history. Look up the Monroe Doctrine and Black Jack Pershing and his Mexican conquest. Read below what 2 time Congressional Medal of Honor Winner Marine General Smedley Butler said in his book "War is a Racket"

“I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.”

Nothing has changed.

[noelscot]

What would be the consequences if USA and other western countries started denying tourist visas to ALL Russians?

Russia would reciprocate of course.

But only a tiny fraction of western citizens (including those here married to RW) would be upset about not being able to go to Russia.

Conversely, a much larger fraction of Russian citizens would be upset about not being able to travel to the west.

Wouldn't this make Putin less popular with the Russian citizens?

I think this.

Yes, of course, there would be some loss of tourist dollars, but if we are really serious about consequences . . .

What are the other opinions?

Some of us have family in Russia, and we can only hope policy makers don't listen to people like you who advocate collective punishment.

[TBear]

Tit for Tat is a bad idea all around. And you know putin won't back down.

At most, it'll just make the Russian media spin the story as AMERICA IS EVIL, and then even more people wont even want to travel to America. So what's the point?

The governments need to stop acting like children fighting over a toy, and realize Ukraine is a country, filled with real people.

[Belvis]

What would be the consequences if USA and other western countries started denying tourist visas to ALL Russians?
...
Wouldn't this make Putin less popular with the Russian citizens?

Widespread opinion in Russia is  if US deny visas to all Russians that would stop brain drain and suppress to some extent capital leakage.  Negative mood will fall on US, of course, not Putin.

Another consequence will be wave of agressive patriotism  like depicted in demotivators:


I can reach any country without visa.


They knew how to enter EU.

[BC]

What a ridiculous idea.

[TheTraveler]

What are the other opinions?

that you are posting like a hysterical chick?

[ML]

This would not make Putin less popular, this will make USA less popular.

Are you of the opinion that most Russians currently have a favorable attitude toward USA and its citizens?

[ML]

I personally think it would be unwise to punish ordinary citizens over the behavior of an REMF (which is what KGB is full of ) who is doing the bidding of the country's oligarchs.

Don't current polls show Putin has 70% + approval rating?

Doesn't this imply that 'ordinary citizens' are very much in favor of what Putin has done?

So if there are to be 'consequences' shouldn't these include those who 'do' and those who support and keep in power those who 'do.'

[die_cast]

Are you of the opinion that most Russians currently have a favorable attitude toward USA and its citizens?

I don't know, to be honest. I have never asked people what they think about USA, I even can't remember us discussing any topics about USA... 
There are many people here, some of them should have "a favorable attitude toward USA and its citizens".

[ML]

Some of us have family in Russia, and we can only hope policy makers don't listen to people like you who advocate collective punishment.

I already noted in my OP that there would be 'hurt' for those who have Russian connections.

But have you considered the 'hurt' for the Ukrainian people and those who have Ukrainian connections.

Collective punishment is not a good idea, where a majority of those  being punished did not support the actions that brought on the punishment.

But in the current case, Russian polls show that 'collective Russia' overwhelmingly supports the actions of their leaders regarding Ukraine.

What do our laws say regarding those who stand by and cheer on rapists?

[Larry1]

Don't current polls show Putin has 70% + approval rating?

Doesn't this imply that 'ordinary citizens' are very much in favor of what Putin has done?

So if there are to be 'consequences' shouldn't these include those who 'do' and those who support and keep in power those who 'do.'

I saw the results of a recent poll that showed his approval rating has gone up to 80%. If he manages to take another chunk of Ukraine and corrals most of the other former Soviet territories into some kind of union that more or less mimics the old USSR his approval rating would probably go above 95%.

[ML]

Widespread opinion in Russia is  if US deny visas to all Russians that would stop brain drain and suppress to some extent capital leakage.  Negative mood will fall on US, of course, not Putin.

Another consequence will be wave of agressive patriotism  like depicted in demotivators:


I can reach any country without visa.


They knew how to enter EU.

I well understand your points.

But turn this around.

Would Russia and Russian people cower and back down from their principles if they viewed this type of threat (as demonstrated in your pictures) coming toward them?

[die_cast]

If he manages to take another chunk of Ukraine and corrals most of the other former Soviet territories into some kind of union that more or less mimics the old USSR his approval rating would probably go above 95%.

Nope. Those who support such actions already support him, he will not get more support just with another piece of land. It doesn't work this way.

[Larry1]

Nope. Those who support such actions already support him, he will not get more support just with another piece of land. It doesn't work this way.

Then how do you explain the rise in his approval ratings from the high 50s up to 80% after his invasion of Crimea?

[die_cast]

Would Russia and Russian people cower and back down from their principles if they viewed this type of threat (as demonstrated in your pictures) coming toward them?

Pictures, which Belvis posted, are jokes. I'm sure there are similar jokes toward Russians. I actually saw pictures which were not jokes - with the Russian map, but without Russia on them, with the line written under them "I hope this will happen in few years...".

[die_cast]

Then how do you explain the rise in his approval ratings from the high 50s up to 80% after his invasion of Crimea?

I wrote what most Russians feel about Crimea... nobody read it? 

[Slumba]

Don't current polls show Putin has 70% + approval rating?

Doesn't this imply that 'ordinary citizens' are very much in favor of what Putin has done?

So if there are to be 'consequences' shouldn't these include those who 'do' and those who support and keep in power those who 'do.'

Who controls the polling? 

During the Clinton-Lewinsky scandal there were all kinds of polls in the mainstream media showing Clinton's high approval rating and they were basically manufactured to order by the White House.

[Larry1]

Who controls the polling? 

During the Clinton-Lewinsky scandal there were all kinds of polls in the mainstream media showing Clinton's high approval rating and they were basically manufactured to order by the White House.

I've been paying attention to polling done by The Levada Center.  According to this article in The Washington Post a consensus exists that it is reliable:

The Levada Center, a well-respected independent polling center, has also found that Putin had a 72 percent approval rating, up 7 points from January and a recent record. 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/03/13/we-treat-him-like-hes-mad-but-vladimir-putins-popularity-has-just-hit-a-3-year-high/

[Muzh]

Wouldn't this make Putin less popular with the Russian citizens?

I think this.

Keep dreaming loverboy. As a matter of fact, this would enamor Russians a lot more to Putler.
 
Just ask the sample here.