Video: how did gunmen easily seize gov. buildings in East Ukraine

[Larry1]

How have pro-Russian militants taken over city halls and police stations across eastern Ukraine with such surprising ease? Ukrainian journalist Valentyn Chernyavsky decided to test that question in his hometown, the provincial capital of Cherkasy, about 125 miles south of Kyiv. He donned the uniform of a Russian separatist militant, grabbed a (fake but realistic) AK-47 assault rifle and got a friend to drive him downtown to explore his chances of seizing power.

Chernyavsky's six-minute, Ukrainian-language YouTube video of his exploit has gone viral in Ukraine, and its illustration of official laxity might be better than an intelligence briefing in helping to explain why Ukraine's government is in such danger. It also may be one of the most exciting things to happen in Cherkasy (population 300,000) in a while. (If your Ukrainian is rusty, watch the video with our summary below to help you follow it.)

http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/why-did-gunmen-so-easily-seize-governments-in-eastern-ukraine-umm-here-s-why

You can see the video and read a narrative of the action at the link above.

[LiveFromUkraine]

That guy is clearly Russian.  How else did he get the clean fatigues and toy gun?

[BillyB]

That guy is clearly Russian.  How else did he get the clean fatigues and toy gun?

He's wearing a Ukrainian military uniform and not wearing the same type of modern digital print camouflage fatigues as Russian soldiers that are running around in Ukraine. Most people in Ukraine would think he belongs to their army and wouldn't feel threatened when he's driving around town. He doesn't look like a Russian soldier. If I were in the military and helping the Ukrainian army and asked to shoot anybody that looked like a Russian soldier, I wouldn't shoot him.


I know you're not going to believe me LivefromUkraine so go to youtube and look at the uniforms of those Ukrainian soldiers in armored videos that were stopped by citizens. Then look for the videos of the little green men and you'll see Russia army fatigues are different than the ones Ukrainian soldiers are using. If you haven't been in the military and can't see the difference, maybe you can ask Ukrainian and Russian soldiers if they were in a war with each other, could they see the difference or would everybody look the same.

[GQBlues]

 

You can clearly see how Russia needed to (:::shhhh, Russia's secret, under-the-dark-cloud-cover-of-night covert shiasta takeover:::::) unleash their Super-Duper, Special-Special, Highly-Trained, Boy Scout-ready, always-training-very-very hard-everyday, Elite Force. 

Certainly, non-military folk like LiveinUkraine, myself and others can ever grasp the scope of how a demanding mission like this can ever be accomplished.

I do find it amusing though how the woman just casually waved off the character while saying "Ahh, we don't want separation!".

LOL. You can definitely see more passion and emotions from RWD posters than you can from her, man. So much so we threw in Hitler, Cuba, China, WWI & II, Vietnam war, Air Supply, Popeye, Kosovo, Captain America, Thor, Weaponry, Star Wars, Battle Star Gallactica, Donald Sterling, Al Qaeda, Bush, George Washington, Sitting Bull....and a host of other notables.

Heck, even got Photo Guy dusting off some cobwebs from his hibernation and got him back posting to add to some drama!

[LiveFromUkraine]

He's wearing a Ukrainian military uniform and not wearing the same type of modern digital print camouflage fatigues as Russian soldiers that are running around in Ukraine. Most people in Ukraine would think he belongs to their army and wouldn't feel threatened when he's driving around town. He doesn't look like a Russian soldier. If I were in the military and helping the Ukrainian army and asked to shoot anybody that looked like a Russian soldier, I wouldn't shoot him.


I know you're not going to believe me LivefromUkraine so go to youtube and look at the uniforms of those Ukrainian soldiers in armored videos that were stopped by citizens. Then look for the videos of the little green men and you'll see Russia army fatigues are different than the ones Ukrainian soldiers are using. If you haven't been in the military and can't see the difference, maybe you can ask Ukrainian and Russian soldiers if they were in a war with each other, could they see the difference or would everybody look the same.

Well, Billy, I guess I just believe that Russians tend to be somewhat smarter than some are giving them credit for.  If they wanted to infiltrate and cause chaos, I wouldn't expect them to wear Russian outfits and trying to stick out. 

[LiveFromUkraine]

LOL. You can definitely see more passion and emotions from RWD posters than you can from her, man. So much so we threw in Hitler, Cuba, China, WWI & II, Vietnam war, Air Supply, Popeye, Kosovo, Captain America, Thor, Weaponry, Star Wars, Battle Star Gallactica, Donald Sterling, Al Qaeda, Bush, George Washington, Sitting Bull....and a host of other notables.

haha!  No kidding, they need to meet up with cheerleaders like JayH to come up with some Pro Ukrainian slogan.  Something like "Glory to Ukraine".   


JayH needs to get in touch with them to get some tshirts or something done.


The dude must know half the country by now.

[BillyB]

Well, Billy, I guess I just believe that Russians tend to be somewhat smarter than some are giving them credit for.  If they wanted to infiltrate and cause chaos, I wouldn't expect them to wear Russian outfits and trying to stick out.

What's Russia going to do when Ukraine ousted Yanukovych? Order a large amount of brand new military uniforms from another country, have their troops wear them and then send them into Ukraine? How about place that order with Ukraine so nobody can tell the difference between Ukrainian militia and Ukrainian soldiers? I don't think so. They don't want a paper trail so they use their own uniforms minus insignias. Most common folks don't know the difference anyway and Putin can't fool the smart people so he doesn't try. Sometimes I wonder why you guys try so hard to convince the forum that there are no Russian troops in Ukraine. You're doing Putin's work for him.



In the photo below, a man is wearing Russian issued military pants which is very different than what the guy was wearing in Larry's video. Russia has issued a lot of their gear to pro Russian Ukrainian citizens to blend in with their troops.

[LiveFromUkraine]

What's Russia going to do when Ukraine ousted Yanukovych? Order a large amount of brand new military uniforms from another country, have their troops wear them and then send them into Ukraine? How about place that order with Ukraine so nobody can tell the difference between Ukrainian militia and Ukrainian soldiers? I don't think so. They don't want a paper trail so they use their own uniforms minus insignias. Most common folks don't know the difference anyway and Putin can't fool the smart people so he doesn't try. Sometimes I wonder why you guys try so hard to convince the forum that there are no Russian troops in Ukraine. You're doing Putin's work for him.



In the photo below, a man is wearing Russian issued military pants which is very different than what the guy was wearing in Larry's video. Russia has issued a lot of their gear to pro Russian Ukrainian citizens to blend in with their troops.

Nah, Russia will just have them suit up in a Russian flag, send in the troops with Russian banners and then when asked will say it wasn't them.


You really don't have a handle on that logic thing.  Hell, you don't even believe Ukrainians can dress themselves without Russia's help.  haha


Sometimes I wonder how you guys can be so gullible but remember this is the MOB we are talking about. 

On a serious note Billy, I could follow the logic that Russia was sending supplies and such, but can't see the leap to soldiers.  The US has been know to supply groups of people (terrorists) with much worst than military pants.

[BillyB]

 
On a serious note Billy, I could follow the logic that Russia was sending supplies and such, but can't see the leap to soldiers. 

You still don't get it. Putin has admitted on his state controlled tv in front of his own citizens that he sent Russian troops into Ukraine. You know the area that was once part of Ukraine? No western media/Obama propaganda here, it's from Putin's own mouth. Why is it so difficult for you to grasp that if he did it once, he's capable of doing it again? Putin fooled you once. Shame on him. Now he's fooled you twice. Shame on you.

Sometimes I wonder how you guys can be so gullible but remember this is the MOB we are talking about. 

Back to insults? I guess that's a sign I'm winning another debate. No hard feelings. When you finally find a woman that will spend her life with you, I'll be the first to send congratulations.

[LiveFromUkraine]

You still don't get it. Putin has admitted on his state controlled tv in front of his own citizens that he sent Russian troops into Ukraine. You know the area that was once part of Ukraine? No western media/Obama propaganda here, it's from Putin's own mouth. Why is it so difficult for you to grasp that if he did it once, he's capable of doing it again? Putin fooled you once. Shame on him. Now he's fooled you twice. Shame on you.

Duh, he has bases in Ukraine.  Of course he sent in troops.  You remember that agreement he had with Ukraine?  I wish we had sent in troops when our embassy in Libya asked for help.


Just the fact you think Putin has fooled me tells me your full of it.  You don't even know what I think because I haven't mentioned it. 


You just assume like always. 


Your facts look like this.

Guys are wearing clothes that look like Russians and that must mean they are Russian soldiers.
Guys are holding a gun with the barrel pointing outwards and that must mean they are trained assassins. 
Guys have guns and that must mean they are Russians.


Most of what you write is speculation.  You seem to be confusing your opinion with facts.  The problem you're facing is that we are not teenagers here and don't buy into your rhetoric.  You can't talk around us.  We see through you man.

Back to insults? I guess that's a sign I'm winning another debate. No hard feelings. When you finally find a woman that will spend her life with you, I'll be the first to send congratulations.

haha  Billy, Billy, there you go again assuming things which makes you look just plain silly billy.  I don't think you and I are even in the same league.  Of course there are no hard feelings man.   I would have to respect someone to allow them to get me angry and even that would be tough to do.

[BillyB]

Duh, he has bases in Ukraine.  Of course he sent in troops.  You remember that agreement he had with Ukraine?  I wish we had sent in troops when our embassy in Libya asked for help.

We're not talking Sevastopl, the city, we're talking Crimea, an area the size of the state of Massachusetts. You do understand the difference between Sevastopol and Crimea?


If you go to military bases around the world, you won't see soldiers wearing helmets, flak jackets, or carry weapons around the base and soldiers certainly are not allowed to walk around in full combat gear in civilian cities. Much of the gear is placed in the armory during peace time. What you seen in Crimea and now east Ukraine, someone opened the armory and based on the performance of militia there, they are well trained troops, not overweight, out of shape guys who's been retired from the military for 20 years.


It doesn't take much skill to use Google to learn what Putin says on his state run tv. Last time I help you. You can search for more and when you find that Putin only meant the troops in Sevastopol were his, let me know.


http://seattletimes.com/html/nationworld/2023393433_apxrussiaputin.html

[LiveFromUkraine]

We're not talking Sevastopl, the city, we're talking Crimea, an area the size of the state of Massachusetts. You do understand the difference between Sevastopol and Crimea?


If you go to military bases around the world, you won't see soldiers wearing helmets, flak jackets, or carry weapons around the base and soldiers certainly are not allowed to walk around in full combat gear in civilian cities. Much of the gear is placed in the armory during peace time. What you seen in Crimea and now east Ukraine, someone opened the armory and based on the performance of militia there, they are well trained troops, not overweight, out of shape guys who's been retired from the military for 20 years.


It doesn't take much skill to use Google to learn what Putin says on his state run tv. Last time I help you. You can search for more and when you find that Putin only meant the troops in Sevastopol were his, let me know.


http://seattletimes.com/html/nationworld/2023393433_apxrussiaputin.html

Billy, do you even know what you're blabblering about now?  You go from one extreme to another.  Not every Ukrainian is an old overweight retired vet.   There were already Russian troops in Crimea.  Illegally overthrowing the President isn't what most would call peaceful times. 


Ukrainians have been dressing themselves for a long time without the aid of Russia.   They do have their own clothes there.  You seem to think they need Russia to supply clothing.  They do not.  You seem to think Russia couldn't get Ukrainian uniforms if they wanted.  They took over bases in Crimea and all supplies that go with those bases.  Even without the bases, it isn't like Russia wouldn't have resources within Ukraine to get uniforms. 


Of course you take that to the extreme and try to make it sound like they will make them all from scratch or the only way Russian troops can blend in is by Russia supplying their uniforms to all Pro Russian Ukrainians.   


 Damn dude, it's like you just talk for talking sake.

[missAmeno]

Duh, he has bases in Ukraine.  Of course he sent in troops.  You remember that agreement he had with Ukraine? 

And do you know what was agreed in that agreement or only fact that it is exist?

[LiveFromUkraine]

And do you know what was agreed in that agreement or only fact that it is exist?

Yes.

[GQBlues]

....and now east Ukraine, someone opened the armory and based on the performance of militia there, they are well trained troops, not overweight, out of shape guys who's been retired from the military for 20 years....

We have 2 of those US-version currently posting here on RWD. One was actually caught posing in front of a Sequoia that very nearly hid the tree from sight. LOL.

[missAmeno]

Yes.

Great! Go on, tell, don't be shy! Would love to know your version

[LiveFromUkraine]

Great! Go on, tell, don't be shy! Would love to know your version

You do know Crimea is now part of Russia and that agreement doesn't matter.  Sort of like you stating that the illegal ousting, of the President,  doesn't matter any longer. 

[fathertime]

You do know Crimea is now part of Russia and that agreement doesn't matter.  Sort of like you stating that the illegal ousting, of the President,  doesn't matter any longer. 

That is a valid point. If the illegal ousting of a president doesn't matter then why should other agreements matter.  Some people would like to have it both ways and write an unchallenged narrative of events. All sides should be heard as I see more truth in that.
Fathertime!

[missAmeno]

You do know Crimea is now part of Russia ....

No, I do not know that but I do know that legally Crimea is still part of Ukraine occupied by Russia.

...and that agreement doesn't matter.

And if it doesn't matter why you basing your argument on it. It doesn't matter, right?

[missAmeno]

That is a valid point. If the illegal ousting of a president doesn't matter then why should other agreements matter.  Some people would like to have it both ways and write an unchallenged narrative of events. All sides should be heard as I see more truth in that.
Fathertime!

And what ousting of a president gave Russia legal right to invade Ukraine?

[fathertime]

And what ousting of a president gave Russia legal right to invade Ukraine?

Who argued what is going on is legal? It appears to me no side is playing by any rules.

Fathertime!

[missAmeno]

Who argued what is going on is legal? It appears to me no side is playing by any rules.

Fathertime!

Ok, I rephrase.
And what ousting of a president gave Russia right to invade Ukraine?

What did you tried to say with 'If the illegal ousting of a president doesn't matter then why should other agreements matter' Conversation was about presence of russian soldiers in Crimea. Are you justifying suffering of innocent people by ousting of one thief? Are you saying beating up, torturing and killing of people doesn't matter because Yanukovych's ouster was not constitutional?

[LiveFromUkraine]

And if it doesn't matter why you basing your argument on it. It doesn't matter, right?

What argument dear?  That soldiers were already legally in Crimea because there are bases there or because they are there now since they voted on annexation and now part of Russia?

Ok, I rephrase.
And what ousting of a president gave Russia right to invade Ukraine?

What did you tried to say with 'If the illegal ousting of a president doesn't matter then why should other agreements matter' Conversation was about presence of russian soldiers in Crimea. Are you justifying suffering of innocent people by ousting of one thief? Are you saying beating up, torturing and killing of people doesn't matter because Yanukovych's ouster was not constitutional?

See that is the problem that you get when people don't follow the laws.  You see some people get away with occupying buildings/terrorist activities and then others feel they can do the same thing to protect their rights.  Many of those that voted for the President that was illegally removed.

As for violence, do you remember this video?






Here is the same guy in images of the last Ukrainian Parliament brawl.  It is clear to me that one side doesn't have a monopoly on violent activities.





If people don't follow the laws, there is only chaos.

[fathertime]

Ok, I rephrase.
And what ousting of a president gave Russia right to invade Ukraine?

You changed one world in your question...but my response remains essentially the same. Who said Russia has the 'right' to do anything.

My feeling remains that nobody is playing by rules so demanding that an opposing side abide by rules that benefit the opposition is going to be ignored...which is what appears to be happening in this case. I think that is one of many reasons most people here in the USA are opposed to providing assistance.

Fathertime!

[missAmeno]

What argument dear?  That soldiers were already legally in Crimea because there are bases there?  Or because they are there now since they voted on annexation and now part of Russia.

http://zakon4.rada.gov.ua/laws/show/643_076
Let me know if you struggle to translate/understand some words.