Video: how did gunmen easily seize gov. buildings in East Ukraine

[missAmeno]

As for violence, do you remember this video?

Yes, I do

Here is the same guy in images of the last Ukrainian Parliament brawl.  It is clear to me that one side doesn't have a monopoly on violent activities.

Correct. But still what it has to do with Russia invading Ukraine?

Ok, Ukrainian government is full of thieves and toughs. So what? Russia has exactly same problem.
Should China (as example only, put any other preferred country name) invade Russia come and save Russians?

[LiveFromUkraine]

Yes, I do


Correct. But still what it has to do with Russia invading Ukraine?

Ok, Ukrainian government is full of thieves and toughs. So what? Russia has exactly same problem.
Should China (as example only, put any other preferred country name) invade Russia come and save Russians?

Ah, you only have a problem with people getting hurt when Russia is involved.  I understand.  Legality only matters if you agree with the group doing the illegal activities.  Pro Russians are terrorist while Pro EU are revolutionaries.


Pro Russians = Russian military.
Pro EU = Ukrainian citizens wanting a better life.


You don't seem biased at all. 

[missAmeno]

Ah, you only have a problem with people getting hurt when Russia is involved.

????
Where is this come from?

If it s because of my last question then please notice it is a question. Question that is asked because that is exactly what Russia doing to Ukraine. Question asked after you attempted to justify Russian occupation in Ukraine by agreement which Russia broke almost in every clause. Question asked after you attempted to justify Russian occupation in Ukraine by a Ukranian thief and tough being violent.

I understand.  Legality only matters if you agree with the group doing the illegal activities.  Pro Russians are terrorist while Pro EU are revolutionaries.


Pro Russians = Russian military.
Pro EU = Ukrainian citizens wanting a better life.


You don't seem biased at all. 

Yeah, right, lets play banderovci game.

By the way I have relatives in Russia (also in Georgia, Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania) both by marriages and blood. Some of my Ukrainian relatives and friends speak only Russian language.

[LiveFromUkraine]

????
Where is this come from?

From your many posts on this forum.  I think it is pretty obvious.

If it s because of my last question then please notice it is a question. Question that is asked because that is exactly what Russia doing to Ukraine. Question asked after you attempted to justify Russian occupation in Ukraine by agreement which Russia broke almost in every clause. Question asked after you attempted to justify Russian occupation in Ukraine by a Ukranian thief and tough being violent.

I didn't attempt anything.  Are you saying that Russian troops were not already in Crimea at the time all of this started to happen?


If you think a coup can illegally oust an elected official and believe Crimea should follow Ukrainian laws, well, you are being very, very obvious that you allow your own bias to dictate which laws are to be broken and which are not.


If Russia wanted Ukraine,they could take it anytime they want and there is nothing Ukraine nor US no EU can do to stop it.


We both are just saying the same thing over and over again.  If there is nothing new for you to add, this conversation has been finished some time ago.

[BillyB]

If Russia wanted Ukraine,they could take it anytime they want and there is nothing Ukraine nor US no EU can do to stop it.

There's something that America can do about it and if America does do something meaningful beyond sanctions, you'd be screaming worse than a girl about America's involvement so don't think you can hold your back your emotions any better than MissAmeno when it comes to Russia messing with her country.

illegal ousting, of the President,

Still spreading propaganda I see. There was nothing illegal done during impeachment proceedings because there was no impeachment proceedings. Mr. Putin has given up calling Yanukovych president. Most people in the world doesn't buy it so Putin's moved on. You should move on too instead of crying over it again and again and again on this forum.

[LiveFromUkraine]

There's something that America can do about it and if America does do something meaningful beyond sanctions, you'd be screaming worse than a girl about America's involvement so don't think you can hold your back your emotions any better than MissAmeno when it comes to Russia messing with her country.

Billy, do you look in the mirror at yourself holding that sword and fantasize about guys screaming like girls?  That might be something to talk over with a professional.


missAmeno should realize that her own countrymen messed up her country long before Russian involvement. 

Still spreading propaganda I see. There was nothing illegal done during impeachment proceedings because there was no impeachment proceedings. Mr. Putin has given up calling Yanukovych president. Most people in the world doesn't buy it so Putin's moved on. You should move on too instead of crying over it again and again and again on this forum.

Still using that Billy logic again.   You know, Obama was overseas and therefore not in Washington DC working.  That means he is unable to perform his duties and we should vote him out.  Now that is Billy logic at it's best.

[missAmeno]

Are you saying that Russian troops were not already in Crimea at the time all of this started to happen?

These russian troops and many others were not in Ukraine at the time all this started to happen.





Can you please clarify: you do not know all facts or just like to argue on forums?

[fathertime]

There's something that America can do about it and if America does do something meaningful beyond sanctions, you'd be screaming worse than a girl about America's involvement so don't think you can hold your back your emotions any better than MissAmeno when it comes to Russia messing with her country.

Hey Billyb,


I don't know if LFU would be screaming, but if we were to get too involved I'd be screaming about it! 
Hey have you heard about that new movie called America that is coming out July 4?  I don't see many movies in the theater but this one is one I'd like to see.   Here is a preview clip, which I think you would be interested in. [size=78%][/size]

Can you please clarify: you do not know all facts or just like to argue on forums?

I think you are asking an unfair question of LFU...he never said he knew EVERY fact...but one thing is for certain..YOU definitely have very noticeable biases which ooze out as you post, and if you expect your narrative to be unchallenged you are mistaken.  I am willing to see points from both sides of the equation which quite a few people aren't interested in doing. 


Fathertime! 

[GQBlues]

...If people don't follow the laws, there is only chaos.

Ha-hah! In the US, you only get penalized if you didn't enroll in Obamacare by the due date. Or if you didn't pay your taxes like Tim and Tom did, well, 'nothing'. Heck, you can even get the IRS to illegally discriminate your audit policy to favor one political party from the other.

But you do bring a good point. Americans rallied against the government not too long ago. It turned violent and actually caused the lives of 4 people in O-H-I-O. Despite this, it is still quite unthinkable to even imagine what could happen if a legally elected US president was removed from office by the opposing political party and then take over governance and control of the entire country and immediately re-write the prevailing constitution.

Is it hard to imagine what the 'majority population' who legally voted for the ousted president would do if such an event ever took place here? Canada? Germany? the UK?

[missAmeno]

I think you are asking an unfair question of LFU...he never said he knew EVERY fact...but one thing is for certain..YOU definitely have very noticeable biases which ooze out as you post, and if you expect your narrative to be unchallenged you are mistaken.  I am willing to see points from both sides of the equation which quite a few people aren't interested in doing. 


Fathertime!

Then show me those biases instead of just saying I have them, challenge my narratives ... just challenge with reality and not cheap lies.

You keep stating Russia will not invade Ukraine while Russia already invaded Ukraine. I would like to understand on what reality is based such your believe because I genuinely can not understand.

[BillyB]

Hey have you heard about that new movie called America that is coming out July 4?  I don't see many movies in the theater but this one is one I'd like to see.   Here is a preview clip, which I think you would be interested in. [size=78%][/size]

It looks interesting and I may go watch it. I have thought about what the world would look like if America didn't exist and it's part of the reason I don't think America should be an isolationist because by being an isolationist, it's almost as if we don't exist to the rest of the world and I'd don't think the world would be such a nice place to live without America. Although there are a few nations not happy with America, can't please everyone, there are many nations that do want to be our friends and depend on America for their survival. NATO nations depend on America for security. Arab nations depend on America to defend their resources. Asian nations depend on America to keep China from bullying everyone.


Many nations trust America enough to invite our troops into their countries. They know America is not going to conquer them. If a country invites Russian troops onto their land, they may someday lose that land. Just ask Ukraine how that worked out for them.

Billy, do you look in the mirror at yourself holding that sword and fantasize about guys screaming like girls? 

You better hope not because if I do, you'll be the first guy I come after. Wink. Wink.

it is still quite unthinkable to even imagine what could happen if a legally elected US president was removed from office by the opposing political party and then take over governance and control of the entire country and immediately re-write the prevailing constitution.

If an American President jails or poisons every one of his closest competition from opposing parties, riots will happen.

[fathertime]

Then show me those biases instead of just saying I have them, challenge my narratives ... just challenge with reality and not cheap lies.

Going forward I will...you mostly omit information...Reality/ not cheap lies?  How about you, and your name calling?

You keep stating Russia will not invade Ukraine while Russia already invaded Ukraine. I would like to understand on what reality is based such your believe because I genuinely can not understand.

I don't believe Russia has invaded mainland Ukraine...although I can't say for sure, based on what I've seen and read, I happen to believe that Russia probably has some people helping the mostly Ukrainian people take over these buildings or organize...the news I hear/read over and over states that local authorities are assisting and welcoming these takeovers and the gunmen...I don't think that constitutes an invasion. 


Fathertime!   

[GQBlues]

....If an American President jails or poisons every one of his closest competition from opposing parties, riots will happen....

Didn't really addressed the query but considering it's you, source considered.

[BillyB]

Didn't really addressed the question....

Look again what I quoted. I wasn't trying to answer your question. You talked about the unthinkable so I was trying to get you to think. It's not that hard to figure out how people are going to react to a President who jails and poisons his closest completion. It is unthinkable to think people would remove a good President for no apparent reason which is what you want people too believe that is what happened in Ukraine.

[GQBlues]

Look again what I quoted. I wasn't trying to answer your question. You talked about the unthinkable so I was trying to get you to think. It's not that hard to figure out how people are going to react to a President who jails and poisons his closest completion. It is unthinkable to think people would remove a good President for no apparent reason which is what you want people too believe that is what happened in Ukraine.

Well, then you didn't address the query but instead ditched, deflected and ran once again BillyBoy. Your silly sampling have nothing whatsoever to do with my post, Yohan.

Like I said, I considered the source knowing it's you because as far as your concerned Ukraine's elected president wasn't legal on the basis of dissenting opinions, LOL. So I wasn't surprised with your response.

[missAmeno]

How about you, and your name calling?

I did call you one name, I do not deny that but for a reason.
I do not know you or even much about you to state anything close to what I stated but I stated it as my own opinion on extremely limited information I have about you. You more likely took it as offense (which is understandable). The reason I did it is to show to you that is exactly what you doing towards Ukrainians. You making statements which to some will be offensive but those statements are based on your own opinion and that opinion is based on extremely limited information.

Example:

Russia doesn't want to occupy mainland Ukraine (if they did, they would have already taken it)...but they do want a friendly neighbor ...

While in reality Putin is not hiding he does not accept Ukraine as independent state.

I don't believe Russia has invaded mainland Ukraine...

Do you believe Russia invaded Crimea?

the news I hear/read over and over states that local authorities are assisting and welcoming these takeovers and the gunmen...I don't think that constitutes an invasion. 

I will answer this tomorrow, too late now and it will take some time to show you this 'welcoming' reality.

[LiveFromUkraine]

You better hope not because if I do, you'll be the first guy I come after. Wink. Wink.

Looks like the healthy living is paying off, I'm flattered.   

[LiveFromUkraine]

These russian troops and many others were not in Ukraine at the time all this started to happen.

I have no doubt more were sent in.  The US sends troops into other countries for security reasons as well.  I felt safer the minute the US went to war in Iraq and Afghanistan.  I also have no doubt about some of the things Justme wrote in terms of anti-Russian sentiment coming towards Crimea.  If I was in Putin's shoes, I would have protected my men and interest in Crimea from what you call revolutionaries ... aka terrorists.


Don't forget Yanukovych invited Putin into your home.  He wouldn't have any legal leg to stand on if your fellow country men did it legally.


I never said what Russia is doing is right.  They are protecting their interests just like the US has done many times. 


What I am saying is not all people that are dressed in black are Russian militia.  They are Ukrainian citizens acting the same way we saw  other Ukrainian citizens acted in Kiev. 


To condemn one group is condemning both. 


You're putting all the blame on Russia when Ukrainians have shown they can't manage their own house for quite some time.  Time to look in the mirror as they say.

Can you please clarify: you do not know all facts or just like to argue on forums?

Is this where you call me an idiot or do you just like to call people idiots on forums?

[LiveFromUkraine]

Ha-hah! In the US, you only get penalized if you didn't enroll in Obamacare by the due date. Or if you didn't pay your taxes like Tim and Tom did, well, 'nothing'. Heck, you can even get the IRS to illegally discriminate your audit policy to favor one political party from the other.

That is because there are so many laws we all break one or more every time we leave the house. 


I gave up on the California dream once I found out it was illegal to throw a frisbee on the beach.  Apparently frisbees were a health hazard.  It's a tough job protecting us from ourselves.  hah

But you do bring a good point. Americans rallied against the government not too long ago. It turned violent and actually caused the lives of 4 people in O-H-I-O. Despite this, it is still quite unthinkable to even imagine what could happen if a legally elected US president was removed from office by the opposing political party and then take over governance and control of the entire country and immediately re-write the prevailing constitution.

Is it hard to imagine what the 'majority population' who legally voted for the ousted president would do if such an event ever took place here? Canada? Germany? the UK?

I don't think most people would agree with that type of approach here.  They may want a change, but most are willing to do it at election time.  It's pretty easy to see why with all the craziness happening in Ukraine.

[fathertime]

I did call you one name, I do not deny that but for a reason.
I do not know you or even much about you to state anything close to what I stated but I stated it as my own opinion on extremely limited information I have about you. You more likely took it as offense (which is understandable). The reason I did it is to show to you that is exactly what you doing towards Ukrainians. You making statements which to some will be offensive but those statements are based on your own opinion and that opinion is based on extremely limited information.

I don't need any explanations.  I've stated my opinion which in part is based on a variety of people that have a handle on the situation.  Of course, I've drawn the conclusions based on all of this.  Leaving me out of the equation, there are a lot of very intelligent people that have similar sentiments.  Although it appears to me you are presenting one side (which I think it is just fine), you won't find me calling you an idiot or a brat...because you are entitled to your opinion just like anybody else.

Do you believe Russia invaded Crimea?

My opinion is that Russia came into crimea and took it…they had a vote which I realize was not a fair vote (although it does seem that most in Crimea were pro Russian)...it appears to me that many if not most of the people in Crimea are ok with Russia annexing them…

I will answer this tomorrow, too late now and it will take some time to show you this 'welcoming' reality.

Well to this point it appears there is quite a bit of support within Ukraine for the take overs of the buildings and the gunmen.  If you feel you have some evidence that is not the case then you should present your case.


Fathertime! 

[lordtiberius]

A picture says a thousand words, unfortunately none of them have anything nice to say about Putin's apologists

[missAmeno]

I have no doubt more were sent in.  The US sends troops into other countries for security reasons as well.  I felt safer the minute the US went to war in Iraq and Afghanistan.  I

Without insignia?